It's been 2 seasons. What do you think of Todd Haley as OC?
- Thread starter DeaconKnowledge
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I hope so. He's definitely better than my auto correct...
One of the simple things I wanted out of Haley, was hoping for, was for them to snap the damn ball every once in a while before 1 second left on the playclock. Every once and a while go with the play, regardless of the defense, and snap it on the first sound. This team lets the playclock bleed down even in very short yardage. You have an offensive line that hasn't been a collection of Einsteins over the years, whose one strength may have been blowing off the ball and mauling someone. Yet they wait, and wait. It drives me ****** insane. For that reason alone, if they kicked Haley to the curb I would lose no sleep.
I think this season we should clearly see what Haley can do offensively. He has good speed at WR, a great QB and a solid (yet unproven under his command) running game. Having Munchack directing the blocking schemes can't hurt.
Should be an interesting year.
Should be an interesting year.
We got to two Super Bowls when LeBeau's defense was playing lights-out. Even at that time the offense wasn't very good when it come to putting up points.
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I'm fine with Haley because he's not Arians. Will give BA credit for his opening drives, but beyond that it was frustrating to watch. Haley's offense has taken too much time to get going, but once it does it is fun to watch.
PoloMalo43
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We got 2 SB's with one of the best D's the Steelers have fielded in the last 40+years. Bruce's offense was a lethargic POS other than Ben ad libbing big plays. Haley has already done far more with far less, and no help from a D that had "their arrow pointing down".
Who remembers the 3rd and 1 in Cleveland a few years ago in the tsunami with 800 MPH winds and brilliant Bruce calling a 92 step QB drop with everyone including the ball boy running 60 yards deep? Good riddance I say.
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I despised Arians offense. In the SUPER BOWL ERA - Post Merger 1970-current; the 2008 Steelers had the 2nd worst offense (statistically speaking) of any Super Bowl team winner or loser. Only the 2002 Tampa Bay team was worse. Granted the team did face a lot of injuries:
1. Ben had a bad shoulder he played through most of the year.
2. The offensive line just lost arguably the 3rd best player in the unit's history (Alan Faneca) to Free Agency. And the other injuries like those that effectively ended the careers of Marvel Smith and Kendall Simmons did impact the running game a lot. Willie Parker was an injury (broken leg) on first play of week 16 vs. Rams leading NFL in rushing.
3. The injury to Mendenhall was huge blow to Steelers short yardage game as he was closest thing the team had to a short yardage back.
That being said - Arians had:
1. A seasoned and in his prime Ben Roethlisberger coming off the best individual season for a Steelers QB ever.
2. A pair of WRs rivaling the combo of 84-85 Stallworth & Lipps with Ward & Holmes in terms of the veteran and young play maker
3. A RB coming off 3 consecutive 1200 yard seasons - including the 3rd best single season (1494) yardage and team record for TDs in 2006 with 16
4. The best TE in Pittsburgh Steelers history in Steelers history
That being said - the 2008 Steelers converted 52% of their 3rd and 4th & 1 yard situations - 19 plays in Super Bowl XLIII were run with Goal to go and only 2 TDs - 1 of which was Holmes miracle catch. The very 1st drive had 1st and goal from half yard line and 6 plays after a personal foul in 3rd prevented the game from being a dominant Steelers win.
2. 2009 was not Arians fault - Roethlisberger finally eclipsed 4000 yards and the offense had a 4000 passer, 2 1000 yard WRs and a 1000 yard back. The defense without Troy wasn't the same. However - we've seen Brady, Rodgers, Manning and other QBs carry teams to the postseason and the 5 game slump.
The reality is that Big Ben has been to 2 Pro Bowls but really should have been to more. In fact - in a direct comparison (just looking at performance how was Cam Newton selected for Pro Bowl over Big Ben last year? Roethlisberger had more TDs: 28/24; more yards: 4261/3379; 1 more INT 14/13 (In 111 more passing attempts 584/473) and a better QB rating (92.0 to 88.8).
The 2010 Steelers were just as I disciplined on offense as were there 2008 counterparts - and it came back to bite them in Super Bowl 45.
Before injuries began settling in right at the end of the season in 2011 - I maintain the Steelers were better than their 2010 AFC Champion counterparts. The losses of Ben, Mendenhall & Pouncey before playing Denver adding to the in game injuries was too much for the team to handle.
Last year there was a lot to be encouraged about. Bell is the best receiving & running back combo since Franco, Munchack will do for the OL what LeBeau did for the defense in 2004.
Roethlisberger finally made it thru a season healthy and despite what he says - I still expect him to become less reckless in the pocket and pick his spots. Especially when the young OL sees huge improvement from Gilbert, DeCastro and and return to form by Pouncey.
Haley is far more of a take what the defense gives OC vs. Arians predictable formations and stubborn nature which he's had since Cleveland. Remember - it was his offense that which blew the 2002 playoff game.
Don't be fooled by his success with the Colts and Cardinals - the same predictable play calling playing early 1980s football with longer passes lots of INTs and in consistency on offense will catch up with him again
Excellent post FSF, as usual. Though to be fair, Northcutt dropping the wide open pass from Holcomb on 3rd down to clinch the game and run out the clock, is the reason why Cleveland's offense failed to win that game. Can't fault Arians for that.
Yes. No.
The team is now comfortable w/ the change and we're getting more offensive weapons - it ain't broke no need to fix it...
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Just would like more TD when we get in position. Still believe a mature O line could make the offense much better.
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The thing I didn't like about BA was his ARROGANCE. (ironically, this was supposed to be a trait of Haley's as well). BA's arrogance led to most of the "predictability" of his plays, the 'schoolyard antics" of his QB and likely the shortening of his career. He never adjusted according to injury, weather nor opponent (I'm convinced he had little to do with the anomaly against NE in 2011).
Haley has tempered his temper and managed to become less predictable than BA, keep his QB safer and despite key injuries and under-performance on D, managed to increase our scoring marginally. (ironically, we had EXACTLY as many points as AZ last year)
BA's Colts managed to score more points without him last year (with a WR core decimated by injury).
I think we will jump significantly this year in scoring with Heath back to full capacity and by adding Bryant in the RZ mix. I am also excited to see what he does with Archer, DHB, Wheaton and a healthy 2nd TE as well as having Blount as a scoring option in short-yardage too. It appears things are set-up to make this a 'pivotal' year for distinguishing himself as a play-caller.
Haley has tempered his temper and managed to become less predictable than BA, keep his QB safer and despite key injuries and under-performance on D, managed to increase our scoring marginally. (ironically, we had EXACTLY as many points as AZ last year)
BA's Colts managed to score more points without him last year (with a WR core decimated by injury).
I think we will jump significantly this year in scoring with Heath back to full capacity and by adding Bryant in the RZ mix. I am also excited to see what he does with Archer, DHB, Wheaton and a healthy 2nd TE as well as having Blount as a scoring option in short-yardage too. It appears things are set-up to make this a 'pivotal' year for distinguishing himself as a play-caller.
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This is the problem when you just look at stats. Both offense and defense were ranked 12 in scoring/ allowing points. The difference was that the offense scored a lot of points against a few teams. They lost 13-6 to the clowns (5-11) that year. They lost 17-14 to Chicago (7-9). They lost 18-12 to the bungles. They lost 20-17 to the rats in OT. They lost to a 4-12 KC team in OT 27-24. They averaged 23 PPG that year. Yes, they had a lot of passing yards but they couldn't score. Not BA's fault? 6 points against the clowns? 14 points to a bad Bears defense? They gave up 23.4 ppg but could only manage 14. They lost to a 5-11 Raider team with the 23rd ranked defense in the league. Yes, they score 24 points but for an offense putting up 400 yards of offense you'd think they'd score more than that.
That was the problem with BA. Tons of yards but very little scoring. 400 yards and 24 points. 6 points against the 21st defense in the league. It's typical BA coaching.
Under The Bruce red zone scoring was one of the worst in the league. Too many times they only came away with 3 points.
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The redzone problems are directly because of Arians 2 biggest weaknesses, his desire for big plays, and his refusal to get Ben to play within an offense for fear Ben might make fewer of those big plays.
How do you score TDs inside the 10?
1. Run the ball
2. Play action pass
3. quick throw.
Under Arians, the Steelers sucked at all 3.
With a long field, they did have a decent play action game, but that was play action to set up deep double moves. Double moves don't work in close.
In close, the steelers had no run game to fear so a defense could have their LBs and Safeties playing pass. This means the CBs can play tight because they have help. The STeeler WRs suck at beating the press because Arians had them relying on double moves to get open.
You end up with a play fake that fools nobody. Ben looking for a quick route which he hates thrown and has no timing on because he rarely threw them and the WR isn't open. Unlike most teams, the TE is barely involved in the redzone so no worry for the defense there. Ben holds the ball, scrambles and forces a thrown into a tight spot.
How often can that work? Not very which is why Arians offenses sucked in the redzone.
The worst part is that it wasn't the design of his offense. The design was fine. It was his playcalling and his focus in practice. Some of the best games he had as a playcaller were when Ben was injured and he was forced to scale back his big play mania.
Karma. Post Of The Week.
That's what I was saying for most of The Bruce's tenure. Successful play-action depends on a credible running threat, of which the Steelers had none. How many times did we see Ben fake a handoff and the DL or LB would blow right by the RB without a second or even a first look? That **** fooled no one. Haley is much better at taking what the D gives him.
Haley is growing on me. Initially, I pictured him losing the respect of his players because of the sideline antics I saw in AZ and KC, but he seemed to keep his cool. I like his style of offense better than BA because Haley has a more balanced attack. I still hate seeing John Kuhn on the Packers because I feel he could have helped our running game as a FB, but BA had no use for a FB in his offense. And no matter what Arian does as a coach, I still see his offense as the Browns' offense that couldn't protect a lead against us because the couldn't run the ball. Yes our defense deserves some credit, but Arian's lack of a short yardage offense is more to blame.
Some people are simply cut out for being a #2 guy rather than the #1 guy.
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Haley scared me on two counts-his volatility(immaturity) and the fact that I don't think he ever called the plays until he got to KC. I think he has matured considerably here under Tomlin and has shown that by more sideline composure and the development of what seems to be a very professional relationship with Ben. His playcalling has also improved although I would love to see him get a little faster. I'd like to think the addition of Munchak to his staff will help on both counts. One interesting thing to me this year is that I think he lobbied for Archer and it will be fun to watch how he uses him. He does seem to be an innovative guy.
He sucks. The whole team sucks. We are DOOOOOOMED! The end.
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I am much more afraid of mediocrity with this regime than I am with sucking.
If we suck, at least there will be changes made and we move on with a good draft pick or two. I am much more worried Tomlin and Colbert continue to do "just enough" and get a playoff appearance every other year and we never reach the final 4 for the rest of Roethlisberger's career.
Remember, this team has only reach the FINAL 8 in two out of seven seasons with Tomlin. Granted we made it to the final 2 those two seasons (and won a championship), but to fail and reach the final 8 in 5 seasons of Roethlisberger's prime in a relatively weak AFC (that's 4 teams better than us every year) is kind of disheartening to me.
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There was 2-things about the "bruce" that really bothered me.
1.) He was so predictable!!! I don't remember the numbers exactly. Around 54% is a magic number as to weather the defense, can TEE off on an opponent as to run / pass. I believe Bruce had about a 58-60% pass, making it very easy for the defense to tee off. I being an average Joe chair QB, was guessing correctly, about 70% of the time as to pass or run. Imagine how on field, professionals faired. Always very predictable, regardless of yard or down.
2.) His smugness. He always had to "out smart" the opponent. Weather the opponent, needed out smarting or not. Can't pass against the #28pass defense, cause they would be expecting that. What a crock. Think of 3rd and 1, lets do a double reverse, cause everyone thinks we are going to run up the gut. At the time, I always wondered why no one offered him a head coaching job. For awhile i thought it was cause he sucked as an OC. Boy was I wrong. It was because the rest of the NFL, knew if we had a average OC, they'd be in trouble.
One last thing. My one-armed **** flinging monkey rental business, set income records that coexisted with "bruces" OC stint, with the STEELERS. All my monkeys are doing well now, as they are not over worked as with the bruce. In fact, they have all retired and are living happily ever after !!!
Salute the nation
1.) He was so predictable!!! I don't remember the numbers exactly. Around 54% is a magic number as to weather the defense, can TEE off on an opponent as to run / pass. I believe Bruce had about a 58-60% pass, making it very easy for the defense to tee off. I being an average Joe chair QB, was guessing correctly, about 70% of the time as to pass or run. Imagine how on field, professionals faired. Always very predictable, regardless of yard or down.
2.) His smugness. He always had to "out smart" the opponent. Weather the opponent, needed out smarting or not. Can't pass against the #28pass defense, cause they would be expecting that. What a crock. Think of 3rd and 1, lets do a double reverse, cause everyone thinks we are going to run up the gut. At the time, I always wondered why no one offered him a head coaching job. For awhile i thought it was cause he sucked as an OC. Boy was I wrong. It was because the rest of the NFL, knew if we had a average OC, they'd be in trouble.
One last thing. My one-armed **** flinging monkey rental business, set income records that coexisted with "bruces" OC stint, with the STEELERS. All my monkeys are doing well now, as they are not over worked as with the bruce. In fact, they have all retired and are living happily ever after !!!
Salute the nation
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