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Jarvis and Golson

Last year night out for the girls with the Steelers, Jarvis talked about all his other interest, he does not get it, you are paid to paly football. Today he made one play against Green bay.
 
Jarvis looked good punching the OT and getting the QB's legs. I guess he can get sacks against non TE/RBs...
 
black and gold apex said:
Last year night out for the girls with the Steelers, Jarvis talked about all his other interest, he does not get it, you are paid to paly football. Today he made one play against Green bay.
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Not to confuse the issue with the facts, but Jarvis actually had 2 tackles (both solo), 1 sack, 1 tackle for loss and 1 QB hit. So, he actually made more than one play. As a matter of fact, out of the LBs only Spence and Shazier, who played longer had more tackles than Uncle Jarvis. Both of them had 3.

And before anyone says ... but Dupree (who I like), he had the exact same stat line as Jarvis.
 
Cope said:
Jarvis looked good punching the OT and getting the QB's legs. I guess he can get sacks against non TE/RBs...
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That was their backup RT. Still a good signe because that is the first time i can ever remember him cleanly beating an OT, backup or otherwise. Maybe someday he will be able to beat starting OTs. Baby steps.
 
tapeANaspirin2it said:
That was their backup RT. Still a good signe because that is the first time i can ever remember him cleanly beating an OT, backup or otherwise. Maybe someday he will be able to beat starting OTs. Baby steps.
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Their backup RT was playing LT? Did he start the game there?
 
Well we will wait and see if Uncle Jarvis has improved as the REAL season ios coming up. I for one hope he has a great year as that would help our defense a lot. As long as he is on the team, like him or not, I want him to do good. Weather that will happen?? Only time will tell.




Salute the nation
 
tapeANaspirin2it said:
Yes, Bakhtiari is the normal LT starter. Don Barclay is listed as backup RT and he started instead of Bakhtiari at LT.
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So, he's also the Tackle that Harrison got his sack on? Works for me as a starting point for Uncle J.
 
Here's my breakdown of Jarvis vs the Packers

Each play vs Don Barclay - backup RT, playing LT
1.10 run - away - stalemate
2.10 pass - JJ runs arc, pushed past QB
1.10 run to JJ side, pancaked by OT
2.05 bootleg pass away, JJ chases from backside
1.10 run at JJ side, gets blocked
2.05 pass, JJ handled solo by LT
1.10 run - away, bottled up, RB dances, JJ gets piece of tackle from backside, good hustle
2.12 run, draw play, JJ rushed upfield out of play
3.02 pass, JJ stoned at LOS
1.GL stretch run to JJ side, pushed out of play with rest of the defense, Heyward was blown out and Spence did not make the play behind him, easy walk in TD, ONly silver lining is this will not be the normal goal personnel for steelers.
2PT Draw in middle, JJ not involved.

1.10 from own EZ, goalline package. run away, JJ in pile (could have been Harrison)
2.09 Harrison in for JJ
3.09 Harrison in for JJ, makes backup OT his *****, Safety

1.10 run, away, JJ blocked at line, hustles to get a pile jump
2.08 pass, JJ runs arc, quick throw
3.02 pass, JJ runs straight into OT, punches him, he stumbles, JJ gets past for a sack.

That was JJ's last play in first half. I assume he did not play in the 2nd.


JJ was playing against a backup RT playing out of position at LT. This should be a feeding frenzy like it was for Harrison in his limited snaps.


I watched the JJ sack at least 10 times in slow motion. I know it's going to sound like i'm being a hater but he really didn't do much to get that.

There was no move, he ran straight into Barclay. The punch was nothing special. Barclay just seemed to be caught flat footed at contact and was off balance.

Good play by JJ? I guess so but not exectly a highlight reel of pass rush technique.

There is no all 22 available and it's sometimes hard to see
who is in the game from the Tv footage. At some point JJ started to look like he was getting a more violent push and then i noticed it was Shayon Green.


JJ showed me what he always does. He has a great motor. He hustles, but he has no pass rush moves, not much power, and he's usually easily blocked on pass plays.

Harrison doesn't get there every time, but he very rarely gets stoned at the line. He gets a push that often causes the QB to move even when he didn;t get there. He forces the TE or RB to look to his side.

Jarvis rarely causes any of that. He is almost never double teamed and he gets pushed out of the play or stoned at the line far too often.

QBs feel safe with JJ rushing their blindside.

Based on his limited preseason playing time, being treated like he's an established starter who doesn't need extra work a la Heyward or Timmons, i have to think Tomlin is somehow satisfied with Jarvis. Or maybe he thinks Jarvis can flip a switch in the regular season.

I'll believe it when i see it.
 
Harrison had 1 tackle .... I don't see that as a "feeding frenzy". That's against the run, against the pass ... anything. If it was a "feeding frenzy", Harrison wasn't too hungry. Now, that said, I'm happy to have Harrison on the team. I just think it's outright ridiculous to assert that he somehow had this magnificent game and Jarvis was chopped liver. The stats don't back it up and the eye test didn't back it up during the game.
 
SteelBuckeye said:
Funny thing about Jarvis' wrist injury. Didn't Worilds also have the same type of surgery on his wrist? Didn't it take him almost a full year to get the strength and around 90% of mobility back? Now, when Worilds' wrist got as good as it was going to get, didn't he pop of 8 sacks and didn't people start bitchin and moaning about how we were going to lose him?
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SteelBuckeye said:
Not to confuse the issue with the facts, but Jarvis actually had 2 tackles (both solo), 1 sack, 1 tackle for loss and 1 QB hit. So, he actually made more than one play. As a matter of fact, out of the LBs only Spence and Shazier, who played longer had more tackles than Uncle Jarvis. Both of them had 3.

And before anyone says ... but Dupree (who I like), he had the exact same stat line as Jarvis.
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Gosh, darn it. Good golly, Molly - those dang nab-it facts keep jumpin' up and hit me in the ding ding...
 
I just remember a lot of post saying JJ could NEVER beat an OT. He can only beat TE/RBs. Well backup or not, we have film of him beating an OT. I don't need to watch it 10 times to see he got a punch and separation on the first view. The replay was icing on the cake. Punch, separation, dive for the QB, Sack. That's what we need out of JJ and for me the arrow is pointing up!
 
SteelBuckeye said:
Harrison had 1 tackle .... I don't see that as a "feeding frenzy". That's against the run, against the pass ... anything. If it was a "feeding frenzy", Harrison wasn't too hungry. Now, that said, I'm happy to have Harrison on the team. I just think it's outright ridiculous to assert that he somehow had this magnificent game and Jarvis was chopped liver. The stats don't back it up and the eye test didn't back it up during the game.
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Harrison played only a few snaps. He went in the game and immediately produced a safety. He also has a history of beating top OTs in the game unlike Jarvis, whose career highlight reel would be 20 seconds long and would include this preseason sack.

Stats don't tell the story. Harrison influences plays even on plays where he doesn't make a tackle or get a sack. He moves the pile, he collapses pockets. He commands double teams. Jarvis usually does nothing, almost never gets doubled, and this game was pretty standard for him.

Here are Harrison's snaps
1.10 from EZ, run away, not involved in play
2.09 from EZ, pass, Harrison beats LT, Lacy goes cross formation to double, Harrison gets hand on Rodgers as he throws
3.09 from EZ, pass, Harrison blows past LT for sack and Safety

1.10 pass, Harrison gets past LT, touches QB just after he throws
2.07 pass, Harrison delay blitz, pass away no factor
1.10 run to harrison side. He jacks LT backward, causes Lacy to change direction
2.01 Harrison lined up as nickel CB over the slot WR, run away from Harrison, not a factor in play
3.04 Harrison at LOLB over RT, quick pass, chipped by RB, not a factor

Harrison owned that backup OT consistently. Jarvis had 1 good play and was otherwise handled by that backup RT with no help. If you can't see the difference between Harrison and Jarvis then i can't help you.
 
Cope said:
I just remember a lot of post saying JJ could NEVER beat an OT. He can only beat TE/RBs. Well backup or not, we have film of him beating an OT. I don't need to watch it 10 times to see he got a punch and separation on the first view. The replay was icing on the cake. Punch, separation, dive for the QB, Sack. That's what we need out of JJ and for me the arrow is pointing up!
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i have no idea what every single person said about JJ. But i find it hard to believe anybody meant that JJ could never literally beat an OT, as in, not even on a single play. I'm pretty sure it was meant that he could not do it on a consistent basis which is pretty much all that matters. DHB can beat any CB on a single play. Doesn't mean he can do it often enough to be useful or a starter.

I can't speak for every critic. Maybe some do just want to bash JJ no matter what he does. All i care about is the steelers winning and they can't do that without a pass rush. They will have difficulty with that if Jarvis sucks.

I understand people wanting to give Jarvis a chance. I'm not calling him a bust just yet but it sure looks that way. The criticism of him is warranted at this point.

Tomlin gave Landry a ton of playing time. He gave Shazier extra playing time in the first games. Jarvis is being given the limited reps of an established starter. It makes me scratch my head. Are they confident that Jarvis has improved and he will be great come regular season, or are they getting reps for backups because they think Jarvis may be on the bench more this year.
 
tapeANaspirin2it said:
Harrison played only a few snaps. He went in the game and immediately produced a safety. He also has a history of beating top OTs in the game unlike Jarvis, whose career highlight reel would be 20 seconds long and would include this preseason sack.

Stats don't tell the story. Harrison influences plays even on plays where he doesn't make a tackle or get a sack. He moves the pile, he collapses pockets. He commands double teams. Jarvis usually does nothing, almost never gets doubled, and this game was pretty standard for him.

Here are Harrison's snaps
1.10 from EZ, run away, not involved in play
2.09 from EZ, pass, Harrison beats LT, Lacy goes cross formation to double, Harrison gets hand on Rodgers as he throws
3.09 from EZ, pass, Harrison blows past LT for sack and Safety

1.10 pass, Harrison gets past LT, touches QB just after he throws
2.07 pass, Harrison delay blitz, pass away no factor
1.10 run to harrison side. He jacks LT backward, causes Lacy to change direction
2.01 Harrison lined up as nickel CB over the slot WR, run away from Harrison, not a factor in play
3.04 Harrison at LOLB over RT, quick pass, chipped by RB, not a factor

Harrison owned that backup OT consistently. Jarvis had 1 good play and was otherwise handled by that backup RT with no help. If you can't see the difference between Harrison and Jarvis then i can't help you.
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Yep I see the difference. Harrison is old and, while still effective, has to have his snaps limited. Jarvis is younger, will get the majority of the snaps and you, I and all of Steeler Nation better hope and pray that the sack that was caused by the "stumble" is a precursor of things to come. Because if it isn't, James Harrison is too old to be the cavalry for more than a few snaps a game. And if you can't see that ... then I can't help you.

Oh, and if you don't consider Spence cutting off escape up the middle and Dupree cutting off escape to the right as "help" on Harrison's sack, what exactly DO you consider help?
 
SteelBuckeye said:
Yep I see the difference. Harrison is old and, while still effective, has to have his snaps limited. Jarvis is younger, will get the majority of the snaps and you, I and all of Steeler Nation better hope and pray that the sack that was caused by the "stumble" is a precursor of things to come. Because if it isn't, James Harrison is too old to be the cavalry for more than a few snaps a game. And if you can't see that ... then I can't help you.

Oh, and if you don't consider Spence cutting off escape up the middle and Dupree cutting off escape to the right as "help" on Harrison's sack, what exactly DO you consider help?
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I hate to keep bringing it up BUT a 37yr old Kevin Greene w many more miles on the tires than JH played full time his last 2 years totalling 27 sacks. He had 12 in his final year while OLDER than JH. James and Kevin have something else in common. Their 'game' wasn't predicated on speed...it was predicated on power. JH is FAR and away the most powerful Lineman we have (offense or defense) at his age. The ONLY person who has said JH needs his snaps limited is Joey...whose game was predicated on speed and quickness. James has said he could play til he was 50 and I don't see anything in his limited reps that says he is lying.

Last year, (after retiring), JH played 432 snaps (half of which he admitted he was not yet in football shape). How did he do? 45 total tackles, 5.5 sacks. Kevin Greene had the same number of tackles to go with 12 sacks in his last year playing at age 37.

As far as the "cutting off the escape theory", watch the tape...Rodgers didn't even know JH was there and made NO effort to even step up in the pocket. You can bet if he had eyes in the back of his head he would have pulled a 'Marcia' right there and dove on the ground.
 
keslerclan said:
I hate to keep bringing it up BUT a 37yr old Kevin Greene w many more miles on the tires than JH played full time his last 2 years totalling 27 sacks. He had 12 in his final year while OLDER than JH. James and Kevin have something else in common. Their 'game' wasn't predicated on speed...it was predicated on power. JH is FAR and away the most powerful Lineman we have (offense or defense) at his age. The ONLY person who has said JH needs his snaps limited is Joey...whose game was predicated on speed and quickness. James has said he could play til he was 50 and I don't see anything in his limited reps that says he is lying.

Last year, (after retiring), JH played 432 snaps (half of which he admitted he was not yet in football shape). How did he do? 45 total tackles, 5.5 sacks. Kevin Greene had the same number of tackles to go with 12 sacks in his last year playing at age 37.

As far as the "cutting off the escape theory", watch the tape...Rodgers didn't even know JH was there and made NO effort to even step up in the pocket. You can bet if he had eyes in the back of his head he would have pulled a 'Marcia' right there and dove on the ground.
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Kevin is a good example. Both blue collar players on a a historically blue collar team.

What I want from Jarvis is a blue collar roll up his sleeves approach throughout a game.

I think he has been very inconsistent at best to date.

A sack is welcomed in a preseason game.

But in a regular season game I want to see fairly consistent pressure when he rushes the passer.

And it would be nice for his run D to show more urgency/effort as well.

I keep a open mind but for me Jarvis arrow isn't pointing up, until he shows something in the regular season of make a play then disappear for the rest of the game.

For me that arrow is pointing sideways, and could very well be pointing at Bud Dupree, ---> next.

Guess we like many other things we'll see.
 
I also hope James has found the fountain of youth. I also hope JJ works out as a good player at this point he could even be the number two guy at either position and I would consider that a win from what he has shown early in his game. He did look better in his sack saw high light somewhere than he has in a while. The whole defense looked better than I have seen in a while during Harrison's sack than I have seen in a while.

That to me is a real positive. It is only one play but the whole defense looked good for that play. It is a start and something to build on. It might be that the team will string some good plays together this year and be rebuilding the defense. If it goes from bad to good this year and good to real good or great next year they just might be in line for another run before Ben retires and we spend a while looking for his replacement. On the bright side if we keep playing Laundry he could continue to improve and should give us some high picks at another star prospect. His last game did show he was capable of improvement and who knows he could become a decent number two.
 
Steelers ProFootball Focus grades following the Packers victory
By Jeff.Hartman  @BnGBlitz on Aug 25, 2015, 5:31a 3



The Pittsburgh Steelers put together a winning performance Sunday vs. the Green Bay Packers. See how the team graded out per Pro Football Focus.


The Pittsburgh Steelers had some star performers against the Green Bay Packers Sunday at Heinz Field, but for every star performer was a dud to accompany it. Pro Football Focus released their grades after the Steelers' victory and it is time to see who were top performers, and who was below the line in terms of performance.

On the offensive side of the ball, the best performer of the game was none other than QB Ben Roethlisberger with a +1.9 grade. Roethlisberger did see limited snaps, but performed well when he was given the chance by going 11-14 for 100 yards and a touchdown. Following Roethlisberger on the positive rankings were Ramon Foster (+1.8), Maurkice Poucey (+1.3), Shakim Phillips (+1.3), Tyler Murphy (+1.3) and Kelvin Beachum (+1.2).


However, not all reports from the offense were good. Guard turned center Chris Hubbard was the lowest rated player with a -5.6 rating. Hubbard proved the transition from guard to center is not an easy one as he was repeatedly beaten in pass protection, and failed to open holes in the running game. He wasn't alone with the negative rankings though. Landry Jones (-3.7), Alejandro Villanueva (-3.2), Sammie Coates (-2.7) and Roosevelt Nix (-2.2) rounded out the superstars of the negative rankings.

Defensively, it was rookie Doran Grant who highlighted the positive grades with a +2.3 rating. Grant contributed both in special teams and in 11 on 11 play in the second half to give himself the highest defensive grade on Sunday. Joining Grant as the highest rated players were L.J. Fort (+1.5), Jarvis Jones (+1.4), Daniel McCullers (+1.4) and Terence Garvin (+1.3).

Negative defensive ratings abounded Sean Spence being the worst rated player with a -3.3 rating. Stephon Tuitt and Antwon Blake both joined Spence on the wrong side of the ratings with -1.7 grades, and Cam Thomas (-1.3) and Shayon Green (-1.2) also had negative marks, per PFF.

Grades are difficult to give out during the preseason as players aren't playing a full complement of plays, and the competition level changes depending on the opposition, etc. Despite the individual grades, the team grades for the Steelers might not have been perfect, but were good enough to put a win on the board Sunday for the first time this preseason.
 
keslerclan said:
I hate to keep bringing it up BUT a 37yr old Kevin Greene w many more miles on the tires than JH played full time his last 2 years totalling 27 sacks. He had 12 in his final year while OLDER than JH. James and Kevin have something else in common. Their 'game' wasn't predicated on speed...it was predicated on power. JH is FAR and away the most powerful Lineman we have (offense or defense) at his age. The ONLY person who has said JH needs his snaps limited is Joey...whose game was predicated on speed and quickness. James has said he could play til he was 50 and I don't see anything in his limited reps that says he is lying.

Last year, (after retiring), JH played 432 snaps (half of which he admitted he was not yet in football shape). How did he do? 45 total tackles, 5.5 sacks. Kevin Greene had the same number of tackles to go with 12 sacks in his last year playing at age 37.

As far as the "cutting off the escape theory", watch the tape...Rodgers didn't even know JH was there and made NO effort to even step up in the pocket. You can bet if he had eyes in the back of his head he would have pulled a 'Marcia' right there and dove on the ground.
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1. Kevin Greene and James Harrison are two different people. Just because Greene was able to do something doesn't mean Harrison is.
2. OLB COACH Joey Porter has said that Harrison's snaps will be limited. Don't you think DC Butler or HC Tomlin have signed off on this? And so far during the preseason, Harrison's snaps and even training camp participation have been limited.
3. Dupree came off his edge. Spence came up the middle. You don't believe that Aaron felt the pocket collapse from all directions? And since it was in the endzone, you don't think he was looking and hoping someone came open so that he could at least get rid of the ball without taking a safety (remember, an intentional grounding call in the EZ results in a safety also).
 
I love James Harrison and he obviously still has "it", but I think it's best for the team to limit his snaps. Much like Brett Keisel last season, Harrison's body is a ticking time bomb. Limiting him to 20-25 snaps per game gives us the best chance of having him still around and playing effectively in December. Just because he's a better option than Jarvis Jones in September, doesn't mean we should wear him out to the point that all we have left is Jarvis playing every snap in December.
 
Breakdown of Uncle Jarvis vs the Packers


http://www.Invalid Link - Check SN Home Page/2015/08/steelers-vs-packers-film-room-jarvis-jones/
 
SteelBuckeye said:
1. Kevin Greene and James Harrison are two different people. Just because Greene was able to do something doesn't mean Harrison is.
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We should all remember this for future arguments.


1. ______________ and ____________ are two different people. Just because ____________ was able to do something doesn't mean ____________ is.
 
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