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Javon Hargrave

Drink IRON City said:
It wasn't Dupree (my bad) it was Tuitt (Litos pointed that out).

Hindsight is 20/20 and definitely looking back in rearview mirror, we should have kept him. Water under the bridge, can't put the pudding back in the box, so to speak.


Salute the nation
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But you can buy a new box of pudding.
 
slashsteel said:
I am sure they factored in his injury past. At that point Tuitt simply was the better player. You don't ship off your better player(s). Not sure as a run stopper Hargrave will ever be on Tuitt's level.
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I disagreed then and I disagree now. Doesn't matter how much potential Tuitt had to be the better player the facts were he was always injured a few games a year.
 
FordFairLane said:
I disagreed then and I disagree now. Doesn't matter how much potential Tuitt had to be the better player the facts were he was always injured a few games a year.
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Wasn't potential he showed solid play. I can imagine this team if we shipped off every injured player. The fact is this team seems to have an overall good amount of injuries. Perhaps other teams do too. It is just this one often is lacking with adequate depth. Or how to adjust when that depth is on the field due to injury. It is why when players go down fans often go bonkers. As we know little to no adjustments will be made.

Tuitt lost his passion after his brother went down. Nobody could have predicted that.
 
slashsteel said:
Wasn't potential he showed solid play. I can imagine this team if we shipped off every injured player. The fact is this team seems to have an overall good amount of injuries. Perhaps other teams do too. It is just this one often is lacking with adequate depth. Or how to adjust when that depth is on the field due to injury. It is why when players go down fans often go bonkers. As we know little to no adjustments will be made.

Tuitt lost his passion after his brother went down. Nobody could have predicted that.
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He had one phenomenal year. Besides that he was all potential and injury prone. Hargrave wasn't as splashy but he was always healthy. I will take the guy on the field who is solid over the guy in the training room with potential. It was easy to see Tuitt didn't have the fire for the game.
 
FordFairLane said:
He had one phenomenal year. Besides that he was all potential and injury prone. Hargrave wasn't as splashy but he was always healthy. I will take the guy on the field who is solid over the guy in the training room with potential. It was easy to see Tuitt didn't have the fire for the game.
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I like your posts but you do a lot of hindsight
 
FordFairLane said:
He had one phenomenal year. Besides that he was all potential and injury prone. Hargrave wasn't as splashy but he was always healthy. I will take the guy on the field who is solid over the guy in the training room with potential. It was easy to see Tuitt didn't have the fire for the game.
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That is just it once he has a phenomenal year it isn't potential. Or you can't set it aside to fill your opinion. It is all packaged in, no way at that time was Hargrave the better player. So I guess we will have to agree to disagree.
 
slashsteel said:
That is just it once he has a phenomenal year it isn't potential. Or you can't set it aside to fill your opinion. It is all packaged in, no way at that time was Hargrave the better player. So I guess we will have to agree to disagree.
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Tuitt was the most talented defensive lineman the Steelers had, including Heyward. He didn't always play up to his potential, but when he was good, he was dominant.

In 11 fewer games and 8 fewer starts, Tuitt has more:
-PDs 13 to 5
-FFs 6 to 4
-Sacks 34.5 to 32.5
-Solo tackles 176 to 170
-TFL 48 to 41
-QB Hits 94 to 56

Tuitt was also drafted two years ahead of Hargrave and signed a five-year extension in 2017. Hargrave was just entering his second season at the time. Maybe looking back the Steelers should've worked out a deal with Hargrave rather than franchise Dupree, but let's not pretend this was Tuitt vs. Hargrave because it wasn't.
 
SteelerFan448 said:
Tuitt was the most talented defensive lineman the Steelers had, including Heyward. He didn't always play up to his potential, but when he was good, he was dominant.

In 11 fewer games and 8 fewer starts, Tuitt has more:
-PDs 13 to 5
-FFs 6 to 4
-Sacks 34.5 to 32.5
-Solo tackles 176 to 170
-TFL 48 to 41
-QB Hits 94 to 56

Tuitt was also drafted two years ahead of Hargrave and signed a five-year extension in 2017. Hargrave was just entering his second season at the time. Maybe looking back the Steelers should've worked out a deal with Hargrave rather than franchise Dupree, but let's not pretend this was Tuitt vs. Hargrave because it wasn't.
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Different positions. The difference to me was Hargrave was on the field and Tuitt wasn't. He just never had a passion for football. Any bump or bruise and he was out. Heyward would try to play if his foot fell off. That is the kind of player that gets the extension in my book.
 
FordFairLane said:
Different positions. The difference to me was Hargrave was on the field and Tuitt wasn't. He just never had a passion for football. Any bump or bruise and he was out. Heyward would try to play if his foot fell off. That is the kind of player that gets the extension in my book.
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Man you sure are far out on some of your options. Never had passion for football? Not buying that . Nothing supports that theory either.
 
FordFairLane said:
Different positions. The difference to me was Hargrave was on the field and Tuitt wasn't. He just never had a passion for football. Any bump or bruise and he was out. Heyward would try to play if his foot fell off. That is the kind of player that gets the extension in my book.
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Hargrave covered the NT position here and we weren’t really using it much. Tuitt was by far the better player… even ignoring PFF and their subjective grades, scouting reports often put him above Heyward in both Passing and Rushing defense…. The year before Hargrave was being treated like a bust on this board, simply because we just weren’t utilizing him much… the Steelers opted to keep the technically better and more proven talent…

its hard to criticize them for it… because of the way the league set up rookie deals, the Steelers are basically handcuffed from doing things the way they used to do them and it causes decisions like this… all teams make these mistakes because they are giving out big money second contracts before guys have proven themselves too often now
 
slashsteel said:
Man you sure are far out on some of your options. Never had passion for football? Not buying that . Nothing supports that theory either.
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I wish I could show you my tweet but Alex Kozora deleted it lol. You can still see the conversation if you search it in twitter for damnbanker tuitt Kozora. It shows some guy making a comment about how I was right sometime after Tuitt took the season off.

It was an opinion. I get it. But my opinion was correct. I watch TJ and I see the fire in his belly. I watch Heyward running after a WR 25 yards down field and I see the fire in his belly. I just saw glimpses of that in Tuitt. He was hot and cold. Hargrave on the other hand was always giving 100%. Maybe not Heyward level motor but definitely a guy who wasn't going to get out efforted a lot.
 
madinsomniac said:
Hargrave covered the NT position here and we weren’t really using it much. Tuitt was by far the better player… even ignoring PFF and their subjective grades, scouting reports often put him above Heyward in both Passing and Rushing defense…. The year before Hargrave was being treated like a bust on this board, simply because we just weren’t utilizing him much… the Steelers opted to keep the technically better and more proven talent…

its hard to criticize them for it… because of the way the league set up rookie deals, the Steelers are basically handcuffed from doing things the way they used to do them and it causes decisions like this… all teams make these mistakes because they are giving out big money second contracts before guys have proven themselves too often now
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Like I said to Kozora. Yank the band-aid off. We would have ate a lot of Tuitt's initial signing bonus and been done. Instead we kept upping it by lowering his base pay.

It could have easily went the other direction. His final year he was a beast. Perhaps he was going to turn the corner and be the next Cam. We will never know.
 
FordFairLane said:
I wish I could show you my tweet but Alex Kozora deleted it lol. You can still see the conversation if you search it in twitter for damnbanker tuitt Kozora. It shows some guy making a comment about how I was right sometime after Tuitt took the season off.

It was an opinion. I get it. But my opinion was correct. I watch TJ and I see the fire in his belly. I watch Heyward running after a WR 25 yards down field and I see the fire in his belly. I just saw glimpses of that in Tuitt. He was hot and cold. Hargrave on the other hand was always giving 100%. Maybe not Heyward level motor but definitely a guy who wasn't going to get out efforted a lot.
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You can show it, only you can delete your own tweets.
 
SteelerFan448 said:
You can show it, only you can delete your own tweets.
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I didn’t. Twitter kicked me off for sharing Hunter Biden memes but I was able to sign back up with the same username and email as before after Elon bought it.
 
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