Let's be honest Steelers got lucky

[slashsteel]

He won one SB...went to two with Ben

Let's put some perspective on his two SB appearances with Tomlin

Jackson, Allen and Marino and Rodgers could be argued were or are all better in their prime then Ben was in his prime. 8 MVPs among them, and yet only two SB appearances combined. So to say Tomlin underachieved with Ben lends one to think its clearly tunnel vision and totally disregarding how difficult it is to reach a SB, or the era they were in.

Do I need to bring up Todd Haley?

I am not going to debate who was better than who in their prime that is all a matter of opinion. I will say Ben accomplished things they never did in addition to notables:

Passing Records
Most passing yards in a two-game span: 1,012 yards
(Oct 26 & Nov 2, 2014)
Only QB ever to throw for 500+ yards in back-to-back games.

• Only QB in NFL history with three 500-yard passing games
  (2014 twice, 2018 once)
• Youngest QB to win the Super Bowl 23 years, 340 days (Super Bowl XL)
• 
  
• Rookie / Early Career Records
• Longest undefeated streak to start a career by a QB: 15–0

(2004–2005)

• Most wins by a rookie QB: 13 (2004)
  (record at the time)
• 
  
• Efficiency / Milestones

Fastest QB to reach 100 career wins

• Fastest QB to reach 150 career wins
  (Both measured by fewest games played at the time)

Road & Toughness Records

Most road wins by a QB in first 50 road starts (at the time)

• One of very few QBs to start and win a Super Bowl in their first two seasons

Super Bowl / Playoff Notes

2× Super Bowl Champion

• 3 Super Bowl starts
• One of only 13 QBs to win multiple Super Bowls as a starter
• Over 5,700 playoff passing yards (top tier all-time)

Bottom line Ben was elite.

You are jumping around trying to come up with excuses for Mike Tomlin’s lack of success but the grand picture shows a change of QBs, GMs, & coordinators, but the same old tired scheme and approach keeping this team mediocre.

Many players have said how his crap was predictable with his inability to adjust.

He is payed like a top head coach without the playoff success of a top head coach.

Reasonable fans know the Steelers outcome before the season hits. Let us wrap our head around that. Coaching is holding this team back it has been time for a change and will continue being a time for a change until the change comes.

That man will continue his poor roster decisions and poor in game decisions and adjustments while sticking with his crappy defensive scheme.

Wait until the Lions game that is sure to be a colossal embarrassment. With the outcome based on the mentions.

The here and now:

Teams that embarrassed the Steelers:

GB, Seattle, Chargers and Buffalo.

Teams Steelers embarrassed

Browns with a rookie QB
Bungles without Burrow


Hell the here and now even shows you the level of ineptitude.

Every year fans make excuses for Mike put him on this odd platform with the exact same outcomes. This will continue as well as his embarrassing outcomes. Until the man is gone one way or another.

Will be my happiest day as a Steelers fan. I will go out and celebrate to a high end restaurant that doesn’t feed me mediocre food, you know like he feeds us year after year after year after year.

 

[TimesAreChanged]

I am not going to debate who was better than who in their prime that is all a matter of opinion. I will say Ben accomplished things they never did in addition to notables:

Passing Records
Most passing yards in a two-game span: 1,012 yards
(Oct 26 & Nov 2, 2014)
Only QB ever to throw for 500+ yards in back-to-back games.

• Only QB in NFL history with three 500-yard passing games
  (2014 twice, 2018 once)
• Youngest QB to win the Super Bowl 23 years, 340 days (Super Bowl XL)
• 
  
• Rookie / Early Career Records
• Longest undefeated streak to start a career by a QB: 15–0

(2004–2005)

• Most wins by a rookie QB: 13 (2004)
  (record at the time)
• 
  
• Efficiency / Milestones

Fastest QB to reach 100 career wins

• Fastest QB to reach 150 career wins
  (Both measured by fewest games played at the time)

Road & Toughness Records

Most road wins by a QB in first 50 road starts (at the time)

• One of very few QBs to start and win a Super Bowl in their first two seasons

Super Bowl / Playoff Notes

2× Super Bowl Champion

• 3 Super Bowl starts
• One of only 13 QBs to win multiple Super Bowls as a starter
• Over 5,700 playoff passing yards (top tier all-time)

Bottom line Ben was elite.

You are jumping around trying to come up with excuses for Mike Tomlin’s lack of success but the grand picture shows a change of QBs, GMs, & coordinators, but the same old tired scheme and approach keeping this team mediocre.

Many players have said how his crap was predictable with his inability to adjust.

He is payed like a top head coach without the playoff success of a top head coach.

Reasonable fans know the Steelers outcome before the season hits. Let us wrap our head around that. Coaching is holding this team back it has been time for a change and will continue being a time for a change until the change comes.

That man will continue his poor roster decisions and poor in game decisions and adjustments while sticking with his crappy defensive scheme.

Wait until the Lions game that is sure to be a colossal embarrassment. With the outcome based on the mentions.

The here and now:

Teams that embarrassed the Steelers:

GB, Seattle, Chargers and Buffalo.

Teams Steelers embarrassed

Browns with a rookie QB
Bungles without Burrow


Hell the here and now even shows you the level of ineptitude.

Every year fans make excuses for Mike put him on this odd platform with the exact same outcomes. This will continue as well as his embarrassing outcomes. Until the man is gone one way or another.

Will be my happiest day as a Steelers fan. I will go out and celebrate to a high end restaurant that doesn’t feed me mediocre food, you know like he feeds us year after year after year after year.

When you start with "most passing yards" it makes it impossible to take the rest of your post seriously.

If you can't admit that passing yards is a terrible measure of a QB, you're hopelessly corrupt.

Let's start with that.

Other than that, you and the other members of the sopping wet vagina crew arrived at your conclusion before the debate began. you'll say whatever it takes to try to convince others that you arrived at that conclusion through reason.

Give it a break. You're entitled to your SWV Club membership but make a thread where you can all get together and ***** and whine about the Coach and stop turning this website into your living room.

No one wants to hear your incessant, childish whining. You do not own this site and you should have the decency to make it a more welcoming place for a wider group of people so that the site and revenues can grow.

 

[Coryea]

He won one SB...went to two with Ben

Let's put some perspective on his two SB appearances with Tomlin

Jackson, Allen, Marino and Rodgers could be argued were or are all better in their prime then Ben was in his prime. 8 MVPs among them, and yet only two SB appearances combined. So to say Tomlin underachieved with Ben lends one to think its clearly tunnel vision while totally disregarding how difficult it is to reach a SB, or the era they were in.

Do I need to bring up Todd Haley?

Let me know when Tomlin builds his own roster and does something, yeah he deserves credit for 08 and 2010, but he had LeBeau running the defense and a loaded roster that he didn't have put together, there's no arguing that since all those players and coaches inherited left, he's been well below the standard. 3 playoff wins 16 seasons. None in 8 seasons. How many teams would've kept that coach still?

 

[slashsteel]

When you start with "most passing yards" it makes it impossible to take the rest of your post seriously.

If you can't admit that passing yards is a terrible measure of a QB, you're hopelessly corrupt.

Let's start with that.

Other than that, you and the other members of the sopping wet vagina crew arrived at your conclusion before the debate began. you'll say whatever it takes to try to convince others that you arrived at that conclusion through reason.

Give it a break. You're entitled to your SWV Club membership but make a thread where you can all get together and ***** and whine about the Coach and stop turning this website into your living room.

No one wants to hear your incessant, childish whining. You do not own this site and you should have the decency to make it a more welcoming place for a wider group of people so that the site and revenues can grow.

It is a debate. If you can’t debate without flaming then it is a go f *c k yourself twatwaffle. You don’t speak for the site d!ckhead. I don’t take anything knob slobbers say in their posts seriously.

 

[slashsteel]

Let me know when Tomlin builds his own roster and does something, yeah he deserves credit for 08 and 2010, but he had LeBeau running the defense and a loaded roster that he didn't have put together, there's no arguing that since all those players and coaches inherited, he's been well below the standard. 3 playoff wins 16 seasons. None in 8 seasons. How many teams would've kept that coach still?

He won’t do any of that we all know what he will do is what we see right now.

 

[jitter77]

He won one SB...went to two with Ben

Let's put some perspective on his two SB appearances with Tomlin

Jackson, Allen, Marino and Rodgers could be argued were or are all better in their prime then Ben was in his prime. 8 MVPs among them, and yet only two SB appearances combined. So to say Tomlin underachieved with Ben lends one to think its clearly tunnel vision while totally disregarding how difficult it is to reach a SB, or the era they were in.

Do I need to bring up Todd Haley?

The main issue with Allen was KC. Buffalo couldn't get past KC. Jackson is 3-5 in playoff games. 3 of his losses were to mahomes / Allen and 1 was to Rivers. The other loss was to the Titans with Tannehill, but that Titans team made it to the AFC champ game losing to mahomes. Allen has basically lost to mahomes, Burrow, and watson.
When Rodgers was in GB their defense usually wasn't very good. They lost a game 45-51 in the playoffs. I don't know about Marino's teams.
As for the steelers we were a pretty stacked team on both sides of the ball and we lost to teams we had no business losing too. I know SBs are a long shot, but I would be happy with just winning a playoff game. It is also how we lost. Alot of times we had no chance from the start due to terrible game planning. We just did not capitalize on the talent we had and to me that falls on correcting l coaching

 

[BLITZ]

He won one SB...went to two with Ben

Let's put some perspective on his two SB appearances with Tomlin

Jackson, Allen, Marino and Rodgers could be argued were or are all better in their prime then Ben was in his prime. 8 MVPs among them, and yet only two SB appearances combined. So to say Tomlin underachieved with Ben lends one to think its clearly tunnel vision while totally disregarding how difficult it is to reach a SB, or the era they were in.

Do I need to bring up Todd Haley?

Steelers had more complete team than those teams. And yes bring up Haley

 

[NoKap#7]

The main issue with Allen was KC. Buffalo couldn't get past KC. Jackson is 3-5 in playoff games. 3 of his losses were to mahomes / Allen and 1 was to Rivers. The other loss was to the Titans with Tannehill, but that Titans team made it to the AFC champ game losing to mahomes. Allen has basically lost to mahomes, Burrow, and watson.
When Rodgers was in GB their defense usually wasn't very good. They lost a game 45-51 in the playoffs. I don't know about Marino's teams.
As for the steelers we were a pretty stacked team on both sides of the ball and we lost to teams we had no business losing too. I know SBs are a long shot, but I would be happy with just winning a playoff game. It is also how we lost. Alot of times we had no chance from the start due to terrible game planning. We just did not capitalize on the talent we had and to me that falls on correcting l coaching

Steelers had more complete team than those teams. And yes bring up Haley

Steelers absolutely did not have more of a complete team. The 2017 team was about as complete as they had. The rest of the teams the offense was good but the defense wasnt because for the most part they started to age out and it seemed to be a struggle to put a secondary together. I won't even go into how bad the drafts were on both sides.

Team Defense Ranking- Source: Pro Football Reference. Points allowed ranking in (). Fact is the defense wasnt good enough to help out a good offense during most of that time except 2017 which is admittedly Tomlins biggest failure as a coach although it could be noted your best defensive player was paralyzed that year, nonetheless they still should have done better.

2007 - #1(2)
2008 - #1 (1)
2009 - #5 (13)
2010 - #2 (1)
2011 - #1 (1)
2012 - #1 (6)
2013 - #13 (14)
2014- #18 (18)
2015 - #12 (11)
2016 - #12 (10)
2017 - #5 (7)
2018 - #6 (17)
2019 - #5 (6)
2020 - #3 (3)
2021 - #19 (19)

This is the Offensive rankings for the same time frame. Team Offense Rank over the years...source PRO FOOTBALL REFERENCE "Points For" ranking in ()

2021 #25 (24)
2020 #24 (12)
2019 #30 (27)
2018 #4 (8)
2017 #3 (8)
2016 #7 (11)
2015 #3 (5)
2014 #2 (7)
2013 #20 (17)
2012 #21 (22)
2011 #12 (22)
2010 #14 (12)
2009 #7 (12)
2008 #22 (20)
2007 #17 (9)

Typically when the offense was up the defense was down and vice versa. So as you can see they never had a balanced team even throughout the Killer B era besides 2017 so its a complete fallacy when someone says the Steelers had a more complete team. That could be the case maybe when talking about Marino, but not completely sure what thats based upon when you think about the Packers, Bills, Ravens, over the years??

As far as Haley i wonder if he would have been more influential in preventing Ben from playing hero ball as much which at times put the Steelers behind the 8 ball early in games. The organization preferred Ben over him obviously, but that goes with the saying you live by the sword you die by the sword. Maybe a competent OC could have helped this team to win a playoff game or two since their last win. The OCs that followed sure didnt.

 

[NoKap#7]

Let me know when Tomlin builds his own roster and does something, yeah he deserves credit for 08 and 2010, but he had LeBeau running the defense and a loaded roster that he didn't have put together, there's no arguing that since all those players and coaches inherited left, he's been well below the standard. 3 playoff wins 16 seasons. None in 8 seasons. How many teams would've kept that coach still?

He won’t do any of that we all know what he will do is what we see right now.

I dont need to let you know when he builds his own roster. I only need to let you know what he was able to do with the roster he had. If you want to talk about building rosters then thats a separate conversation for Kevin Colbert and Khan/Weidl as well as any other GM in the league. Do we need to talk about how far below the line this scouting department was for many years?? From 2015 until 2024 Steelers had to have been one of the worst drafting teams in the NFL. We got complete drafts during that time with not a single player being signed beyond their rookie contract. Im not completely absolving Tomlin of these poor drafting picks but im most definitely not placing most of the blame on him.

 

[Coryea]

I dont need to let you know when he builds his own roster. I only need to let you know what he was able to do with the roster he had. If you want to talk about building rosters then thats a separate conversation for Kevin Colbert and Khan/Weidl as well as any other GM in the league. Do we need to talk about how far below the line this scouting department was for many years?? From 2015 until 2024 Steelers had to have been one of the worst drafting teams in the NFL. We got complete drafts during that time with not a single player being signed beyond their rookie contract. Im not completely absolving Tomlin of these poor drafting picks but im most definitely not placing most of the blame on him.

Coaches have a huge say in the draft, they have the majority, see Cowher vs Donahoe. Khan is just a numbers guy.
But, no matter what, this team has been embarrassed in the exact same way for almost a decade now in the post season, get annihilated early, we come out super flat, and there's only one constant and that's Tomlin.

 

[NoKap#7]

I am not going to debate who was better than who in their prime that is all a matter of opinion. I will say Ben accomplished things they never did in addition to notables:

Passing Records
Most passing yards in a two-game span: 1,012 yards
(Oct 26 & Nov 2, 2014)
Only QB ever to throw for 500+ yards in back-to-back games.

• Only QB in NFL history with three 500-yard passing games
  (2014 twice, 2018 once)
• Youngest QB to win the Super Bowl 23 years, 340 days (Super Bowl XL)
• 
  
• Rookie / Early Career Records
• Longest undefeated streak to start a career by a QB: 15–0

(2004–2005)

• Most wins by a rookie QB: 13 (2004)
  (record at the time)
• 
  
• Efficiency / Milestones

Fastest QB to reach 100 career wins

• Fastest QB to reach 150 career wins
  (Both measured by fewest games played at the time)

Road & Toughness Records

Most road wins by a QB in first 50 road starts (at the time)

• One of very few QBs to start and win a Super Bowl in their first two seasons

Super Bowl / Playoff Notes

2× Super Bowl Champion

• 3 Super Bowl starts
• One of only 13 QBs to win multiple Super Bowls as a starter
• Over 5,700 playoff passing yards (top tier all-time)

Bottom line Ben was elite.

You are jumping around trying to come up with excuses for Mike Tomlin’s lack of success but the grand picture shows a change of QBs, GMs, & coordinators, but the same old tired scheme and approach keeping this team mediocre.

Many players have said how his crap was predictable with his inability to adjust.

He is payed like a top head coach without the playoff success of a top head coach.

Reasonable fans know the Steelers outcome before the season hits. Let us wrap our head around that. Coaching is holding this team back it has been time for a change and will continue being a time for a change until the change comes.

That man will continue his poor roster decisions and poor in game decisions and adjustments while sticking with his crappy defensive scheme.

Wait until the Lions game that is sure to be a colossal embarrassment. With the outcome based on the mentions.

The here and now:

Teams that embarrassed the Steelers:

GB, Seattle, Chargers and Buffalo.

Teams Steelers embarrassed

Browns with a rookie QB
Bungles without Burrow


Hell the here and now even shows you the level of ineptitude.

Every year fans make excuses for Mike put him on this odd platform with the exact same outcomes. This will continue as well as his embarrassing outcomes. Until the man is gone one way or another.

Will be my happiest day as a Steelers fan. I will go out and celebrate to a high end restaurant that doesn’t feed me mediocre food, you know like he feeds us year after year after year after year.

I dont know if i would call Ben Elite. If he's elite then what are QBs like Mahomes, Brady, and Montana because Ben is not on their level?? I guess you could call him elite and say those guys are Boss level.

 

[NoKap#7]

Coaches have a huge say in the draft, they have the majority, see Cowher vs Donahoe. Khan is just a numbers guy.
But, no matter what, this team has been embarrassed in the exact same way for almost a decade now in the post season, get annihilated early, we come out super flat, and there's only one constant and that's Tomlin.

I dont have a doubt that coaches have a say. I'm just saying they dont have the most say.

 

[Coryea]

I dont have a doubt that coaches have a say. I'm just saying they dont have the most say.

Something we may never know, but I'd say Tomlin has majority say in that room, he interviewed the GM candidates, and seems to have a lifetime contract, so the only guy that can over rule him would be Art II

 

[Coryea]

I dont know if i would call Ben Elite. If he's elite then what are QBs like Mahomes, Brady, and Montana because Ben is not on their level?? I guess you could call him elite and say those guys are Boss level.

Why can't they all be elite? Ben has the Super Bowls and stats.

 

[Steelmann]

From 2015 until 2024 Steelers had to have been one of the worst drafting teams in the NFL. We got complete drafts during that time with not a single player being signed beyond their rookie contract. Im not completely absolving Tomlin of these poor drafting picks but im most definitely not placing most of the blame on him.

You might want to check your facts before you spew your drivel too much.

“ Not a single player signed beyond their rookie contract “. Off the top of my head,without giving it any effort at all……….Bud Dupree,TJ Watt,Alex Highsmith signed past their original contracts. Heck…I think even Ju Ju signed one or two years past.

This is not me saying they have drafted well. At least get your facts straight for a chance at credibility.

 

[TimesAreChanged]

It is a debate. If you can’t debate without flaming then it is a go f *c k yourself twatwaffle. You don’t speak for the site d!ckhead. I don’t take anything knob slobbers say in their posts seriously.

I stand by everything I said

And your reaction says all we need to know

To Kap:

Ben was an elite QB on the field and a wrecking ball off of it.

 

[NoKap#7]

You might want to check your facts before you spew your drivel too much. “ Not a single player signed beyond their rookie contract “. Off the top of my head,without giving it any effort at all……….Bud Dupree,TJ Watt,Alex Highsmith signed past their original contracts. Heck…I think even Ju Ju signed one or two years past.

This is not me saying they have drafted well. At least get your facts straight for a chance at credibility.

Maybe try reading and comprehension you dimwit. I didnt say every draft. I said some drafts such as 2015 and 2016 none of those players were signed beyond their rookie contract with the exception of Dupree who they franchise tagged one year but up to that point had not done much at all and they didnt sign after. 2019 wasnt that much better.

 

[NoKap#7]

Why can't they all be elite? Ben has the Super Bowls and stats.

You know there's levels to this. Let's not pretend there isnt. I do believe Ben is elite, I just corrected myself by viewing QBs like Mahomes, Brady and Montana as being Boss level.

 

[TimesAreChanged]

Why can't they all be elite? Ben has the Super Bowls and stats.

People have short memory

Ben was a beast of a QB

 

[TimesAreChanged]

You know there's levels to this. Let's not pretend there isnt. I do believe Ben is elite, I just corrected myself by viewing QBs like Mahomes, Brady and Montana as being Boss level.

What separates elite from boss

That would help your argument

 

[NoKap#7]

What separates elite from boss

That would help your argument

Domination over time...much like Jordan, LeBron and Russell or Johnson were in basketball. You just knew if you were on their teams you could automatically pencil in a championship appearance...at minimum their conference finals. I think football IQ is off the meter for QBs at the boss level and a different level of leadership

 

[jitter77]

One could argue the reason our defenses / offenses were ranked low were due to coaching. We still had they're players, but schemes changed once tomlin started putting his finger print on them.

 

[Steelmann]

Maybe try reading and comprehension you dimwit. I didnt say every draft. I said some drafts such as 2015 and 2016 none of those players were signed beyond their rookie contract with the exception of Dupree who they franchise tagged one year but up to that point had not done much at all and they didnt sign after. 2019 wasnt that much better.

You said from “2015 till 2024” your direct quote.
Are you a ******* idiot? I give you exact players that signed beyond their rookie contracts and you want to argue facts?
Mann oh Mann. Instead of saying “oops,I goofed up” and laugh it off?
Shows what type of person you are.

 

[TimesAreChanged]

You said from “2015 till 2024” your direct quote.
Are you a ******* idiot? I give you exact players that signed beyond their rookie contracts and you want to argue facts?
Mann oh Mann. Instead of saying “oops,I goofed up” and laugh it off?
Shows what type of person you are.

Calm down sir

Kap:

Your opinion is great. Congratulations

Now what separated your elite players from your boss players

With specificity. I can help you more with this if you don't know how to make an argument

 

[NoKap#7]

You said from “2015 till 2024” your direct quote.
Are you a ******* idiot? I give you exact players that signed beyond their rookie contracts and you want to argue facts?
Mann oh Mann. Instead of saying “oops,I goofed up” and laugh it off?
Shows what type of person you are.

Stupid azz if I meant every draft I would simply say every draft. I said "There are entire drafts where not a single person was signed beyond their rookie contract" That doesnt mean every draft. It means a draft here and there which is a fact you dumb moron. I said they were one of the worst drafting teams from 2015-2024 which is also a fact.