Narratives

[BLITZ]

"It's OK. None of it matters in the grand scheme of life."

That is what Tomlin apologizing has been reduced to.

 

[diver]

But it’s still important for you to come on here and piss on other people’s frustration who are still passionate-got it, what a guy you are

So an entire game of inept offense is primarily on the players according the to you right? All those plays were players not making plays not an inept offensive philosophy and play calling, right?

For 9 years it’s year after year of players not making plays and that’s why poor Tomlin hasn’t won a playoff game, according to you, right?

My god Mike Tomlin is the most unlucky coach in the history of sport!

No. I just wanted to acknowledge that it is unfair for me to forget the passion I once had. I had no other intention. I should understand and remember the frustration. I am not as devious as you make me out to be.

We will continue to disagree on the player/coach responsibility question. I have never said coaches don't matter. You and others have infered I said that, but I have not. But it is an absolute truth that the people actual playing the game have more responsibility for the outcome. I would bet if you ask any coach or player they would say the same thing. Chuck Noll did. That does not absolve Mike Tomlin in any way. He put a roster together that could not compete, especially offensively. The play calling was poor as well, but do you honestly believe that offensive roster as it was comprised would have fared that much better last night with better playcalling? They were overmatched.

 

[Avoid_Lloyd]

No. I just wanted to acknowledge that it is unfair for me to forget the passion I once had. I had no other intention. I should understand and remember the frustration. I am not as devious as you make me out to be.

We will continue to disagree on the player/coach responsibility question. I have never said coaches don't matter. You and others have infered I said that, but I have not. But it is an absolute truth that the people actual playing the game have more responsibility for the outcome. I would bet if you ask any coach or player they would say the same thing. Chuck Noll did. That does not absolve Mike Tomlin in any way. He put a roster together that could not compete, especially offensively. The play calling was poor as well, but do you honestly believe that offensive roster as it was comprised would have fared that much better last night with better playcalling? They were overmatched.

Jacksonville Jaguars….we already discussed how coaching can revolutionize a roster and make things night and day better

Before you lecture anyone else about criticizing the coaching as the #1 problem- go watch the last 7 consecutive playoff losses and reflect on it

If you still think you’re being unfairly labeled a “Tomlin Apologist” read thru this thread

 

[slashsteel]

No. I just wanted to acknowledge that it is unfair for me to forget the passion I once had. I had no other intention. I should understand and remember the frustration. I am not as devious as you make me out to be.

We will continue to disagree on the player/coach responsibility question. I have never said coaches don't matter. You and others have infered I said that, but I have not. But it is an absolute truth that the people actual playing the game have more responsibility for the outcome. I would bet if you ask any coach or player they would say the same thing. Chuck Noll did. That does not absolve Mike Tomlin in any way. He put a roster together that could not compete, especially offensively. The play calling was poor as well, but do you honestly believe that offensive roster as it was comprised would have fared that much better last night with better playcalling? They were overmatched.

Just not the truth it is your opinion but not an accurate one. No reason for the Ravens to move on if what you believe to be true was. Players can only play within the confines of what you give them. Scheme in game adjustments etc.

The talent on the roster also comes from what direction the head coach takes them.

Biggest thing I have a problem with is fans trying to make their questionable opinions fact.

If HCs weren’t responsible for outcomes there wouldn’t be such a significant turnover.

It would be one thing if he didn’t have control over the decisions but he clearly is the only remaining part that hasn’t been replaced.

I think you have a certain degree of tunnel vision that isn’t going to change.

Just know you are in the minority of your opinion.

 

[diver]

Just not the truth it is your opinion but not an accurate one. No reason for the Ravens to move on if what you believe to be true was. Players can only play within the confines of what you give them. Scheme in game adjustments etc.

The talent on the roster also comes from what direction the head coach takes them.

Biggest thing I have a problem with is fans trying to make their questionable opinions fact.

If HCs weren’t responsible for outcomes there wouldn’t be such a significant turnover.

It would be one thing if he didn’t have control over the decisions but he clearly is the only remaining part that hasn’t been replaced.

I think you have a certain degree of tunnel vision that isn’t going to change.

Just know you are in the minority of your opinion.

It is not a questionable opinion to say that people who actually play the game are more responsible for outcomes than those who do not. It is fact. Like water is wet is a fact. Why do you think this absolves Tomlin? It doesn't at all.

 

[diver]

Ok. You are coaching the Steeler offense last night against that defense. What schemes would have you put in place that would have beaten that defense with the present personnel the Steelers have on offense?

 

[slashsteel]

It is not a questionable opinion to say that people who actually play the game are more responsible for outcomes than those who do not. It is fact. Like water is wet is a fact. Why do you think this absolves Tomlin? It doesn't at all.

It is questionable for the reasons I mentioned. Your comment didn’t imply opinion it implied fact.

Your take has gotten more far fetched as you went along. He is involved in every outcome of this team. That is what is a fact.

Another fact is the incredible streak of playoff embarrassments that have taken place.

Some of you want to be right more than wanting this team to present a better product.

Say you want to keep him because you prefer regular season winning over playoff wins and competing for even more than that.

That would be more truthful than what you have presented.

The old players wasn’t good enough take is just a silly concept when the man is responsible for what players are on the roster.

I am giving you a damaged product that I can’t win with.

Not my fault!

I am sorry I highly disagree here with your takes.

 

[WindyCitySteel]

Ok. You are coaching the Steeler offense last night against that defense. What schemes would have you put in place that would have beaten that defense with the present personnel the Steelers have on offense?

There is none to overcome THE ROSTER THAT MIKE TOMLIN BUILT. He WANTS these schemes. As then failed time and time again to get a legit #2 WR and failed, Tomlin reiterated his support for the current group.

This is the team he built and wanted and it has no shot at competing for a championship.

That's why he needs to go.

 

[slashsteel]

There is none to overcome THE ROSTER THAT MIKE TOMLIN BUILT. He WANTS these schemes. As then failed time and time again to get a legit #2 WR and failed, Tomlin reiterated his support for the current group.

This is the team he built and wanted and it has no shot at competing for a championship.

That's why he needs to go.

He gave us a fork to feed you soup with it isn’t his fault for the soup isn’t entirely reaching your mouth.

The soup was too thin. They didn’t bring it to their mouth quick enough.

Some fans are feeding us some high bullshit.

 

[Avoid_Lloyd]

Ok. You are coaching the Steeler offense last night against that defense. What schemes would have you put in place that would have beaten that defense with the present personnel the Steelers have on offense?

We’re not NFL coaches, I’m sure there are plenty of qualified people who could have done better.

This is a variation of the lazy Tomlin Apologist argument of “who are you going to find that’s better”???

It’s pathetic: the Jaguars found their new coach, the Steelers found Cowher, Noll, and Tomlin-who was effective early in his career in the playoffs. Had you heard of them before they were hired?

 

[slashsteel]

We’re not NFL coaches, I’m sure there are plenty of qualified people who could have done better.

This is a variation of the lazy Tomlin Apologist argument of “who are you going to find that’s better”???

It’s pathetic: the Jaguars found their new coach, the Steelers found Cowher, Noll, and Tomlin-who was effective early in his career in the playoffs. Had you heard of them before they were hired?

During the season fans have had plenty of choices they talked about…There isn’t a lack of options. It just doesn’t fit their agenda.

I find it odd now that there is still fans advocating that he stay or even worse that he has been wronged. Just highly ridiculous takes..

 

[Confluence]

It is not a questionable opinion to say that people who actually play the game are more responsible for outcomes than those who do not. It is fact. Like water is wet is a fact. Why do you think this absolves Tomlin? It doesn't at all.

This is awesome.

You made his point. Good job.

 

[Fiji Mariner]

Seriously, does anyone think that there's more than a 10% chance of Tomlin being gone? That's the definition of insanity.

Well considering Art has about 1% of a will to win I’d say the percentage of Tomlin being gone is likely about 1%

 

[Fiji Mariner]

Ok. You are coaching the Steeler offense last night against that defense. What schemes would have you put in place that would have beaten that defense with the present personnel the Steelers have on offense?

Spenser Anderson damn well would’ve seen more than 6 snaps with the protection issues

Muth and Thielen would’ve been the primary middle of the field targets, a middle of the field that would be attacked with quick slants behind hard crashing pass rushers

Smith wouldn’t have even still been on the roster

Some 2 back sets with Gainwell slipping to a route after chipping

Some hurry up/no huddle

There are about 10-15 others off the top of my head that seemed OBVIOUS…except to the single biggest component to another abysmal playoff appearance…the coaching…it was its usual deer in headlights, zero adjustments, zero effective game planning that 99% of us have seen WAY TOO MANY TIMES

The human hurdle to success: Mike Tomlin

AFC North Champions!!!!!!!

 

[diver]

This is awesome.

You made his point. Good job.

How? I am shocked that anyone can argue any different. So a guy that doesn't play is more responsible than a guy that does? It defies common sense. It defies everything you learned growing up about sport. Are you responsible for your own behavior or is someone else? That doesn't absolve Tomlin of lousy schemes, poor roster construction, and poor game coaching. But it illustrates that the Steelers are not gonna scheme themselves out of this. They need a new coach and they need better players. I hope they don't think they can scheme their way out. They need to look at this thing top to bottom. This All on Tomlin approach all the time is low hanging fruit. It's easy.

 

[diver]

Spenser Anderson damn well would’ve seen more than 6 snaps with the protection issues

Muth and Thielen would’ve been the primary middle of the field targets, a middle of the field that would be attacked with quick slants behind hard crashing pass rushers

Smith wouldn’t have even still been on the roster

Some 2 back sets with Gainwell slipping to a route after chipping

Some hurry up/no huddle

There are about 10-15 others off the top of my head that seemed OBVIOUS…except to the single biggest component to another abysmal playoff appearance…the coaching…it was its usual deer in headlights, zero adjustments, zero effective game planning that 99% of us have seen WAY TOO MANY TIMES

The human hurdle to success: Mike Tomlin

AFC North Champions!!!!!!!

Those are all good points. I just don't think that even with all that, the talent the Steelers have on offense, the talent Tomlin assembled, was able to compete with the Texans defense.

 

[slashsteel]

How? I am shocked that anyone can argue any different. So a guy that doesn't play is more responsible than a guy that does? It defies common sense. It defies everything you learned growing up about sport. Are you responsible for your own behavior or is someone else? That doesn't absolve Tomlin of lousy schemes, poor roster construction, and poor game coaching. But it illustrates that the Steelers are not gonna scheme themselves out of this. They need a new coach and they need better players. I hope they don't think they can scheme their way out. They need to look at this thing top to bottom. This All on Tomlin approach all the time is low hanging fruit. It's easy.

Every team every year needs better players. If you get a new coach he wants players who fit his approach. You can definitely improve your schemes and approach with the same roster. Doesn’t mean you will win it all of course it is a combination of a lot of things.

Doesn’t take away the deficiency of the Steelers HC that continues to hold this team back.

Every fan knows this team needs players upgrades it just is a known that Mike won’t put them in the best position to succeed as a group.

 

[Confluence]

How? I am shocked that anyone can argue any different. So a guy that doesn't play is more responsible than a guy that does? It defies common sense. It defies everything you learned growing up about sport. Are you responsible for your own behavior or is someone else? That doesn't absolve Tomlin of lousy schemes, poor roster construction, and poor game coaching. But it illustrates that the Steelers are not gonna scheme themselves out of this. They need a new coach and they need better players. I hope they don't think they can scheme their way out. They need to look at this thing top to bottom. This All on Tomlin approach all the time is low hanging fruit. It's easy.

Hey, now you can defend Tomlin as he gets on with his life's work!

 

[DesertSteel]

Well considering Art has about 1% of a will to win I’d say the percentage of Tomlin being gone is likely about 1%

That's all we needed! A chance!!

 

[diver]

Hey, now you can defend Tomlin as he gets on with his life's work!

A few points. I'm not sure how believing the truth that players are more responsible for winning and losing is/was now, an endorsement of Mike Tomlin or any other coach.

Knowing that truth, like all truths, allow consistency. Your position? Not so much. When they win, I give more credit to the players, when they lose, more blame. You guys? All Tomlin when they lose, but it's the players, or luck, or the gods when they win.

If it's the coaches, why does the HOF have almost 400 players enshrined and only 29 coaches? Be careful here, because I'm being told players are pawns and it is all brilliant coaching schemes. There should be a hell of a lot more coaches in that HOF then.

This is an exciting time. But after the coach and his staff get hired, what will the focus become after that? Players. Who fits his schemes best and all that. Once you acknowledge that, you acknowledge that the players are the most important thing.

 

[slashsteel]

A few points. I'm not sure how believing the truth that players are more responsible for winning and losing is/was now, an endorsement of Mike Tomlin or any other coach.

Knowing that truth, like all truths, allow consistency. Your position? Not so much. When they win, I give more credit to the players, when they lose, more blame. You guys? All Tomlin when they lose, but it's the players, or luck, or the gods when they win.

If it's the coaches, why does the HOF have almost 400 players enshrined and only 29 coaches? Be careful here, because I'm being told players are pawns and it is all brilliant coaching schemes. There should be a hell of a lot more coaches in that HOF then.

This is an exciting time. But after the coach and his staff get hired, what will the focus become after that? Players. Who fits his schemes best and all that. Once you acknowledge that, you acknowledge that the players are the most important thing.

No they simply are both important. You can’t have longer term success without being able to X and O coach and bring in talent and develop them.

They go together like Ramma-lamma-lamma-ka-dingity-da-dinga-dong.

 

[diver]

No they simply are both important. You can’t have longer term success without being able to X and O coach and bring in talent and develop them.

They go together like Ramma-lamma-lamma-ka-dingity-da-dinga-dong.

Yes they are. I've have never said coaches are not important. But I think the most important is talented players who buy in and love football. Coaches aren't going to do anything without that.

 

[slashsteel]

Yes they are. I've have never said coaches are not important. But I think the most important is talented players who buy in and love football. Coaches aren't going to do anything without that.

Nope without the right coach to guide them they will not work together as a team a unit.

Now fluke seasons happen for HCs and for talented teams but neither is sustainable without the other equally doing their part.

 

[Confluence]

A few points. I'm not sure how believing the truth that players are more responsible for winning and losing is/was now, an endorsement of Mike Tomlin or any other coach.

Knowing that truth, like all truths, allow consistency. Your position? Not so much. When they win, I give more credit to the players, when they lose, more blame. You guys? All Tomlin when they lose, but it's the players, or luck, or the gods when they win.

If it's the coaches, why does the HOF have almost 400 players enshrined and only 29 coaches? Be careful here, because I'm being told players are pawns and it is all brilliant coaching schemes. There should be a hell of a lot more coaches in that HOF then.

This is an exciting time. But after the coach and his staff get hired, what will the focus become after that? Players. Who fits his schemes best and all that. Once you acknowledge that, you acknowledge that the players are the most important thing.

Hey that's great.

You can teach all those folks at Tomlin's new place of employment. It will give them another focus when the disappointment sets in.

What a great service you can be.

 

[diver]

Hey that's great.

You can teach all those folks at Tomlin's new place of employment. It will give them another focus when the disappointment sets in.

What a great service you can be.

Will do!