Obama begins carpet bombing the coal industry with new laws - you knew it was coming

[Spike]

all y'all were warned


“If someone wants to build a new coal-fired power plant they can, but it will bankrupt them because they will be charged a huge sum for all the greenhouse gas that’s being emitted.” -Candidate Barack Hussein Obama, 2008.


Obama’s EPA ready to launch new clean-air rules that target coal industry

The Obama administration as early as Monday is expected to unveil new rules that would slash carbon emissions at existing power plants, a plan likely to drum up plenty of political controversy and become an issue in the fall congressional elections.

The rules appear to take special aim at coal and potentially could result in the closure of a large number of plants over the next decade.

Opponents are already lining up. The U.S. Chamber of Commerce argued in a new report last week that a major EPA rewrite of pollution laws would kill thousands of U.S. jobs, raise electricity prices and cost the economy up to $50 billion a year.

The debate is sure to intensify as the November elections draw near, especially in states that are heavy producer or users of coal, such as Kentucky, West Virginia, Missouri and Ohio. Critics are lambasting what they call a “war on coal” and trying to divide Democrats.

http://blogs.marketwatch.com/capito...ew-clean-air-rules-that-target-coal-industry/

 

[Superman]

why do we need coal for energy? we have duracells.

 

[EdReed4Prez]

Skyrocketing energy costs will sure help to narrow that wealth gap. Well at least it will put the middle class even with the poverty line. So we got that going for us.

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

These energy bills are too high now because of evil corporate greed. I guess the government will have to take over the electricity business.

 

[Vincent]

Skyrocketing energy costs will sure help to narrow that wealth gap. Well at least it will put the middle class even with the poverty line. So we got that going for us.

Recall candidate sodom hussein in 08 trying to articulate thoughts without a teleprompter telling us that "under (his) 'plan' that energy bills would necessarily skyrocket". "That will cost money that'll have to be passed on to consumers..."



I remember young sodom telling us that he foresaw average electric bills of $600.

Why do people ingore these people and act like nothing is amiss?

 

[Spike]

. I guess the government will have to take over the electricity business.

That's the plan...


The EPA as Super-Legislature

Having failed to get the Democrats’ cap-and-trade scheme through Congress, President Obama intends to create it through fiat, with the Environmental Protection Agency scheduled to issue today what amounts to a bill of attainder against coal-fired electricity generators. The regulation will set a national limit on greenhouse-gas emissions from coal plants and then offer states a phony menu of choices for meeting that standard, stacking the policy deck in such a way as to force them into cap-and-trade programs administered by multistate cartels.

It is far from obvious that the Obama administration has anything like the legal authority for this; until quite recently, the White House seemed to think that it was necessary for Congress — remember Congress, the lawmaking branch of government? — to pass a law creating a cap-and-trade program, but, having lost that vote, President Obama is pressing on in rule-by-decree mode, apparently having mistaken himself for Charles de Gaulle.

But set aside, arguendo, niggling questions about whether President Obama is once again running roughshod over the Constitution, the separation of powers, and the American model of government. Instead, ask yourself whether this sort of program is going to be successful exclusively on the terms of its own internal logic. If the purpose of capping greenhouse-gas emissions is to prevent global warming, then this program, far from reducing the emission of greenhouse gases, is just as likely to increase those emissions.

There are two fundamental realities that the administration is committed to ignoring. One is that, even if we swallow whole the most alarmist version of the global-warming story, the phenomenon is inescapably a global one. In order for the United States to make national cuts that are of global significance, they would have to be substantially larger than anything under current consideration, and reducing emissions...

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/379293/epa-super-legislature-editors

 

[EdReed4Prez]

Recall candidate sodom hussein in 08 trying to articulate thoughts without a teleprompter telling us that "under (his) 'plan' that energy bills would necessarily skyrocket". "That will cost money that'll have to be passed on to consumers..."



I remember young sodom telling us that he foresaw average electric bills of $600.

Why do people ingore these people and act like nothing is amiss?

Plus we'll have to pick up the bill for the growing number of takers. This guy is helping the **** out of the middle class.

 

[Lmob0621]

Plus we'll have to pick up the bill for the growing number of takers. This guy is helping the **** out of the middle class.

The middle class is not extinct yet? Don't worry. Between changing policies to increase expenses in everything from utilities, fuel, groceries etc. and pushing to raise minimum wages to astronomical heights, Obama will knock the few middle class citizens remaining down until they are in poverty as well.

 

[21STEELERS21]

http://www.renewableenergyworld.com...aster-than-national-average-employment-growth

I think I'd advise anyone to look for a solar job rather than coal. Solar is the future and coal is the past.

 

[21STEELERS21]

http://www.renewableenergyworld.com...aster-than-national-average-employment-growth

I think I'd advise anyone to look for a solar job rather than coal. Solar is the future and coal is the past.

 

[Vincent]

I think I'd advise anyone to look for a solar job rather than coal. Solar is the future and coal is the past.

I think I'd advise anyone posting on Steelernation to learn the interface. It's the future and double posting is the past.

 

[JupiterBnG]

These energy bills are too high now because of evil corporate greed. I guess the government will have to take over the electricity business.

Depends on the utility. Regulated utilities can only make as much profit as the Public Service Commission that oversees them allows them to make. If they have a great year and make more than expected, it all goes back to ratepayers in the form of lower rates and credits the following year. Similarly, regulated utilities have a straight pass-through for fuel costs. If the price of fuel goes up, your electric bill goes up by the exactly proportional amount. If the price of fuel goes down, your bill goes down. They can't make any money off of fuel costs. And if they have a bad year, and don't meet their targets or don't make any profit, they're SOL, the PSC doesn't intervene and let them raise rates the following year so they can make up the difference.

 

[hamster]

http://www.renewableenergyworld.com...aster-than-national-average-employment-growth

I think I'd advise anyone to look for a solar job rather than coal. Solar is the future and coal is the past.

Very good point. I think I'll send my resume to Solyndra.

 

[madinsomniac]

100% overstepping the boundries of the EPA and the presidency. Virtually assuring nationwide blackouts or worse. let me ASSURE you... the energy sector, of which i know more than my share of big players, have simply decided to not spend the money to comply... they are cutting a minimum of 30% off of an overtaxed grid because of MATS... expect another 30% if this goes through... they literally are going with the nuclear option... and I dont mean energy... they fully intend to allow this country to experiance full out power shortages and fully expect that to lead to taxpayer bought brand new power plant gifts for them... and they are right. If this is enacted, this is , in my opinion a grosss abuse of power and ought to lead to censure at best... you cannot circumvent the checks and balances cause you didnt get your way

 

[madinsomniac]

http://www.renewableenergyworld.com...aster-than-national-average-employment-growth

I think I'd advise anyone to look for a solar job rather than coal. Solar is the future and coal is the past.

Solar is iffy at best. making the power cells they need create a high amount of toxic waste and its just not reliable... as a supplimental its fine, but its not even close to useable unless they can come up with a battery stroage system for it... and they cant... solar is a pipe dream... like wind... so far every major solar plant attempt has failed miserably the second public substacies have been pulled... its not cost effective nor can it make the amount of energy needed

 

[Superman]

Solar is iffy at best. making the power cells they need create a high amount of toxic waste and its just not reliable... as a supplimental its fine, but its not even close to useable unless they can come up with a battery stroage system for it... and they cant... solar is a pipe dream... like wind... so far every major solar plant attempt has failed miserably the second public substacies have been pulled... its not cost effective nor can it make the amount of energy needed

eventually we'll have to find an alternate source of energy. as you point out, it may not be the most economically viable plan, but solar is the most abundant and constant.

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

http://www.renewableenergyworld.com...aster-than-national-average-employment-growth

I think I'd advise anyone to look for a solar job rather than coal. Solar is the future and coal is the past.

flying car is the future too but until they have flying cars that are working and practical, i'll stick with my gas powered car.

Solar is nothing more than a supplemental power source. You want to put solar panels on your roof to lower your electric bill, go ahead, but if you think you can cut the power line to your house and just use solar panels then you will be disappointed when you go to watch the Daily Show to be told what to think that day and your TV won't turn on.

Oh well, probably for the best. More time to compost your own feces for that chick pea garden you've always wanted. Once that up and running you can produce up to 2 tablespoons of Hummus per day, just so long as no insects ruin your pesticide free organic garden.

In all seriousness. What is it like going through life without questioning what you are told by the sources you have been told to trust?

 

[JupiterBnG]

Solar is iffy at best. making the power cells they need create a high amount of toxic waste and its just not reliable... as a supplimental its fine, but its not even close to useable unless they can come up with a battery stroage system for it... and they cant... solar is a pipe dream... like wind... so far every major solar plant attempt has failed miserably the second public substacies have been pulled... its not cost effective nor can it make the amount of energy needed

Wind and solar can't and won't replace base load generation plants. No serious person expects them to. What they CAN do is reduce the amount of fuel those base load plants have to burn to meet demand. If you have a peak demand of 1,000 MWhs, and your renewable assets (wind and solar) can generate 250 MWhs during that period of time, you've cut your fuel bill by 25%. During a really hot, sunny day, for instance, when everyone cranks the A/C and creates a greater peak demand than usual, the utilities generally have to fire up "peaking plants," smaller plants that are just in standby mode. That process of bringing those peaking plants online costs a lot of money. Hell, just building the peaking plant and having it sit there idle costs money, but you have to have them (or else live with brownouts or rolling blackouts), and you can't run them continuously without wasting a lot of money.

There are a number of solar power generation facilities in the US, and they're quite successful for their intended purpose, which is to offset some portion of a utility's regular demand needs with emissions-free energy. As a capital investment, they eventually (and usually pretty quickly) pay for themselves, as do higher-efficiency, modern combined-cycle plants.

Of course, there are factors that contribute to success or failure - they need to be on the right site, first and foremost. Solar will never work in Seattle, because of the lack of adequate days of sunshine. Wind farms are no good if you don't have favorable wind-producing weather for a majority of the year. There's always the NIMBY element - everyone wants cheaper, less-polluting energy, but no one wants the windmills or solar or nuclear plants anywhere near them.

Solar will most likely succeed in a distributed generation, net-metering model rather than as a utility-owned generation model. That is, people will install solar panels on their private property, and have two-way meters. During the day when you're not home and using very little energy, your solar panels will power your home (your refrigerator and other things that run even when you're not around), and any excess will be put onto the grid, where your meter will capture the amount you generate. When the sun isn't out due to weather (or because it's nighttime) you'll draw power from the grid. The difference between how much you generate and how much you draw will determine your bill (including getting a credit if you generate more than you use). The benefit is that, with enough distributed solar panels feeding into the grid during daylight hours (which are typically the peak demand hours for the utility), you can significantly cut the amount that the big power plants have to run in order to meet demand.

 

[Spike]

Vote Democrat if you want your power bills to triple

China owns 90% of the rare earth minerals used to make solar power cells

Vote Democrat if you love Communist China


All Your Rare Earth Metals are Belong to Us

Rare earth metals are difficult to mine. It can take up to a decade -- and billions of dollars -- to get a mine running at peak capacity. And it isn't cheap. In the 1970s and 1980s, the U.S., Australia, and most other regions decided to stop mining the scarce resource. At the time the decision seemed to make sense. Rare earths were primarily used for specialty commercial purposes and scientific research.

China, however, bucked the exodus and decided to keep its rare earth metal mines under its control (both in China and in other parts of Asia), active and producing. At the time the Chinese looked like fools. Now that "foolish" stubbornness has handed them a gold mine.

Fast-forward to the present and rare earths are vital to numerous businesses. They're found in solar panels, wind turbines, car windshields, computer displays, sensors, and many other devices. And with China controlling 90 percent of the world's production, buyers have nowhere else to turn.

http://www.dailytech.com/World+Trad...Metals+Stop+Breaking+the+Law/article34597.htm

 

[Spike]

EPA Admits Climate Rule Will Raise Electricity Prices

In 2008, Barack Obama said his energy plan would cause electricity prices to “necessarily skyrocket.” The Environmental Protection Agency’s latest power plant regulations seem designed to do just that.

The EPA’s own regulatory analysis of its rule to cut carbon dioxide emissions from existing power plants says it will hike retail electricity by as much as 6.5 percent by 2020 — all while forcing 19 percent of the U.S. coal-fired capacity to shutdown and decreasing coal production by up to 28 percent.

“Under the provisions of this rule, EPA projects that approximately 46 to 49 GW of additional coal-fired generation (about 19% of all coal-fired capacity and 4.6% of total generation capacity in 2020) may be removed from operation by 2020,” the EPA says in its regulatory impact analysis of the Obama administration’s Clean Power Plan.

The decrease in coal-fired power will also cause natural gas prices to rise up to 11.5 percent as an additional 1.2 trillion cubic feet of natural gas is used to make up for the lack of coal power in 2020.


“Make no mistake, the administration’s proposed rule is nothing more than a national energy tax that will be yet another sucker punch to middle-class families struggling to get by in the Obama economy,” said South Dakota Republican Sen. John Thune.

“These regulations, which will increase electricity costs, will especially hurt low-income families and seniors who live on fixed incomes and already devote a large share of their income to electricity bills,” Thune said. “In addition to hurting families, the regulations will destroy jobs, while essentially doing nothing to improve our global environment. The president’s proposed regulations are lose-lose-lose.”


http://dailycaller.com/2014/06/02/epa-admits-climate-rule-will-raise-electricity-prices/

 

[madinsomniac]

So let me restate some stuff again... I am an air emissions tester. this rule is a goldmine for me on the professional level. Regardless this is literally a death knell for the country if it is allowed to be enacted. I strongly disagree with the CO2 studies... I strongly disagree with the temp studies too... if my results were intentionally biased in the same ways multiple studies used to push this crap admittedly were Id be in jail right now with tens of thousands of dollars in fines. Most used selective corrections... many disregarded data that didn't fit the agenda, but even worse most simply ignored temperature or voltage degradation corrections and set baseline readings based off of flawed data to begin with...

If they were truly worried about this they would be giving the go ahead on next-gen nuke plants, which are the cleanest and safest form of large scale energy. The meltdown risks are so easily adverted and the waste byproduct is negligible... even some of the environmental extremists have endorsed them....

Instead we are seeing a push from a group of politicians who are invested in or are getting backing from parts of the energy sector to press everything into certain directions... I mean we are still exporting all the supposed bad coal overseas for them to burn... we are doing the same with gas...


Let me say this once more... this is not going to end well for us... if it goes through there will be an energy war that the coal plants know cannot be won on gas or all the renewables possible right now alone... the long term startup times for Nukes and the limitations on the gas supply means they know if they tear down their plants now, the country will be forced to pay them to build new ones later, on the country's dime... it has happened on a local scale many times before... They wont be fighting this as bad as they can...


Also CO2 capture on a large scale is a pipe dream right now... a few plants have had very limited success liquefying it without freezing the lines, but nothing works long term... there is also the issue that we are trying to store liquefied CO2 in mass quantities underground... which can end very poorly in certain situations.....


This is stupid... completely illegal, and straight up foolish. I really hope if things go as bad as they can people publicly lynch every person involved with this

Fortunately I also believe that there is no way this will actually succeed... the SC ruling for the EPA may have been granted the ability to circumvent congress to a point, but it was based on preexisting laws congress passed. congress can still edit the acts they are trying to use...... and beyond that I cant see this meeting the criteria set forth in those acts... so all of these will likely never reach actual law...

 

[SteelChip]

Instead we are seeing a push from a group of politicians who are invested in or are getting backing from parts of the energy sector to press everything into certain directions... I mean we are still exporting all the supposed bad coal overseas for them to burn... we are doing the same with gas...

Yep, been conversing with relatives out Blairsville way and they tell me the boys that still work the mines are working plenty of overtime to keep up with the exports. This is not hurting the miners so much as it's gonna hurt thems that get their juice from coal fired.

So we shove a stick up our *** converting to unicorn farts for electricity and the Chicoms buy our coal dirt cheap and laugh at us ?

The EPA is pushing new restrictions to reduce pollution from cooking-stoves. Seems like a waste of resources when there are still so many unregulated scented candles out there.

View attachment 150

 

[DBS1970]

http://www.renewableenergyworld.com...aster-than-national-average-employment-growth

I think I'd advise anyone to look for a solar job rather than coal. Solar is the future and coal is the past.

Unless you live north of Georgia. Then for much of the year you don't get enough direct sunlight to make it work.

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

if power plants are so evil then shouldn't they fine Prius drivers by logical extension?

 

[xjx]

Rolling brown outs or black outs will be the norm. The middle class will disappear entirely. Obama action will effect this country forever. Welcome to the third world. You can thank obama. This has been his agenda all along.