Obama begins carpet bombing the coal industry with new laws - you knew it was coming

[Ron Burgundy]

The rules appear to take special aim at coal and potentially could result in the closure of a large number of plants over the next decade.

But people in WV are stupid because they voted for a Republican President.

 

[khruuton]

http://www.renewableenergyworld.com...aster-than-national-average-employment-growth

I think I'd advise anyone to look for a solar job rather than coal. Solar is the future and coal is the past.

You have GOT to be kidding me. Have you been in a coal plant? Have you ever worked there, visited there, been around one? I can guarantee you and any person who opposes coal that if I were to take you into Scrubgrass you would have NO idea you were in a coal plant. I worked in them when they were dirty, and I've worked in them today. They are NOTHING like what you think.

Make the rest of the world match the standards we have in place in the United States. If you're so hell bent on clean energy. Go visit China, Taiwan, some of the European nations and check out their cities. Nothing comes close to the restrictions on our industries. And we're imposing more!

You speak of something you know nothing about. Work in the coal industry 'TODAY' and then come back and talk to me.

 

[khruuton]

So let me restate some stuff again... I am an air emissions tester. this rule is a goldmine for me on the professional level. Regardless this is literally a death knell for the country if it is allowed to be enacted. I strongly disagree with the CO2 studies... I strongly disagree with the temp studies too... if my results were intentionally biased in the same ways multiple studies used to push this crap admittedly were Id be in jail right now with tens of thousands of dollars in fines. Most used selective corrections... many disregarded data that didn't fit the agenda, but even worse most simply ignored temperature or voltage degradation corrections and set baseline readings based off of flawed data to begin with...

If they were truly worried about this they would be giving the go ahead on next-gen nuke plants, which are the cleanest and safest form of large scale energy. The meltdown risks are so easily adverted and the waste byproduct is negligible... even some of the environmental extremists have endorsed them....

Instead we are seeing a push from a group of politicians who are invested in or are getting backing from parts of the energy sector to press everything into certain directions... I mean we are still exporting all the supposed bad coal overseas for them to burn... we are doing the same with gas...


Let me say this once more... this is not going to end well for us... if it goes through there will be an energy war that the coal plants know cannot be won on gas or all the renewables possible right now alone... the long term startup times for Nukes and the limitations on the gas supply means they know if they tear down their plants now, the country will be forced to pay them to build new ones later, on the country's dime... it has happened on a local scale many times before... They wont be fighting this as bad as they can...


Also CO2 capture on a large scale is a pipe dream right now... a few plants have had very limited success liquefying it without freezing the lines, but nothing works long term... there is also the issue that we are trying to store liquefied CO2 in mass quantities underground... which can end very poorly in certain situations.....


This is stupid... completely illegal, and straight up foolish. I really hope if things go as bad as they can people publicly lynch every person involved with this

Fortunately I also believe that there is no way this will actually succeed... the SC ruling for the EPA may have been granted the ability to circumvent congress to a point, but it was based on preexisting laws congress passed. congress can still edit the acts they are trying to use...... and beyond that I cant see this meeting the criteria set forth in those acts... so all of these will likely never reach actual law...

I wish I could give you karma man! Thank you for this post. This is the death rattle for the energy industry. There's NO WAY "clean energy" can keep up with demand. We're being dismantled.

 

[RollRed]

Being a democrat, it drives me ******* insane when I hear/read this ****.... Democrats are supposed to be the party that represents the average working class American, but seem unable to grasp how devastating watching an already sky high electric bill increase,even marginally, would be. When you consider how much the cost of nearly everything working families consume has gone up and combine it with how stagnate wages have been over the last 20 years or so, any increase would be difficult to weather, to say the least. Twenty years ago, my rent was $300 a month, my water bill was $25 dollars a month, my electric bill budget was 62$ a month, and a gallon of gasoline was $1.15, and my construction job paid $15/ hr. I now make $22 an hour... a 47% increase. My rent (still in same apartment) is $650 a month... a 117% increase. My water bill is now $110 ... a 437% increase. Electric bill... $125 ...100% increase. Gasoline... $4.03 a gallon... 350% increase.... and the list goes on and on.

 

[Confluence]

Being a democrat, it drives me ******* insane when I hear/read this ****.... Democrats are supposed to be the party that represents the average working class American, but seem unable to grasp how devastating watching an already sky high electric bill increase,even marginally, would be. When you consider how much the cost of nearly everything working families consume has gone up and combine it with how stagnate wages have been over the last 20 years or so, any increase would be difficult to weather, to say the least. Twenty years ago, my rent was $300 a month, my water bill was $25 dollars a month, my electric bill budget was 62$ a month, and a gallon of gasoline was $1.15, and my construction job paid $15/ hr. I now make $22 an hour... a 47% increase. My rent (still in same apartment) is $650 a month... a 117% increase. My water bill is now $110 ... a 437% increase. Electric bill... $125 ...100% increase. Gasoline... $4.03 a gallon... 350% increase.... and the list goes on and on.

It doesn't matter which political party you favour. Both have been systematically robbing the middle and lower classes of the ability to fend for themselves, then offering "help" via government. Both have lied about inflation and economic growth (related in their calculations)....and the interesting point about your increases above is that biggest ones come from the most heavily taxed and regulated segments -- things the average guy figures is a utility. Any governmental action (regardless of party) that would cause these costs to go higher would have to negative to the middle and lower classes. Full stop.

And yet most only point fingers and suggest it is the other party that is doing bad.

 

[CharlesDavenport]

All this crap is predicated on a theory that has been so contradicted by evidence that is really doesn't deserve to even be called a theory anymore.

 

[SteelChip]

All this crap is predicated on a theory that has been so contradicted by evidence that is really doesn't deserve to even be called a theory anymore.

View attachment 159.............View attachment 160

 

[21STEELERS21]

http://dailyfusion.net/2014/05/residential-solar-installations-28960/

Solar is going pretty strong right now, but its cheap natural gas that is doing the most damage to goal.
You can blame the utilities because they are building most new plants for natural gas.

The next generation of nuclear holds a lot of promise, but the first application of this won't go to the Nuclear Regulatory Commission
until 2016 and the application process can take 5 to 6 years. In another decade coal could be all but done for. It's no longer
labor intensive anyway. There are more jobs to be had with renewables.

 

[madinsomniac]

http://dailyfusion.net/2014/05/residential-solar-installations-28960/

Solar is going pretty strong right now, but its cheap natural gas that is doing the most damage to goal.
You can blame the utilities because they are building most new plants for natural gas.

The next generation of nuclear holds a lot of promise, but the first application of this won't go to the Nuclear Regulatory Commission
until 2016 and the application process can take 5 to 6 years. In another decade coal could be all but done for. It's no longer
labor intensive anyway. There are more jobs to be had with renewables.

The issue is that
:
A. Solar and wind are not viable large scale producers now or in the future
B. Nuclear options are so overegulated that quickly building a plant takes forever... sometimes decades
C. Gas is temporarily cheap... its expected to rise in 2015... Fracking has a ton of issues that we are ignoring... when places like PA actually start taxing them and when the first real bad damage is tied back to fracking costs will dramatically increase, especially if they ban it in many of the residential areas they are currently in... beyond that they intend to export liquified gas on a grand scale...

40% of the grid is still Coal now that gas has taken over... Thats still a huge chunk. if they saturate with gas anymore than they already have, they risk crisis levels if anything disrupts the gas lines, which is far more likely than all the coal plants having issues with their coal piles... which is why nuke plants have coal backup units, not gas... roughly 30% of that coal generation is gone as of next year... all the new plants arent going to offset that loss... if the Co2 regs kick in it will close most coal plants, especially in deregulated areas like PA and Ohio... there is no real plan to fix that... PA already is begging local plants not to close in 2015, because the grid instability is far worse than the media is saying


Look, long term a coal replacement plan is a great idea... but the tech isnt here right now... and a knee jerk reaction like this is just going to crash the economy maybe beyond salvaging.

 

[21STEELERS21]

The new nuclear is much different than the past. They call them SMR's (small modular reactors). They can be built remotely and transported
to the installation site. They will be much easier to finance and quicker to build. The US has one of the leaders in this technology. A company
called Nuscale from Washington state. Their estimate is 2023 before first operating installation.

Solar still has deficiencies, but innovation is happening rather rapidly. I'm particularly interested in the battery storage capacity being developed
by Tesla and Solar City. They are starting to test 500 homes in California with these batteries. If a home can store its excess electricity to use at
later date, solar would change dramatically.

 

[madinsomniac]

The new nuclear is much different than the past. They call them SMR's (small modular reactors). They can be built remotely and transported
to the installation site. They will be much easier to finance and quicker to build. The US has one of the leaders in this technology. A company
called Nuscale from Washington state. Their estimate is 2023 before first operating installation.

Solar still has deficiencies, but innovation is happening rather rapidly. I'm particularly interested in the battery storage capacity being developed
by Tesla and Solar City. They are starting to test 500 homes in California with these batteries. If a home can store its excess electricity to use at
later date, solar would change dramatically.

If they can perfect large scale battery storage for energy in general, the entire landscape of our energy policy can change... but like I said they just are not at the point where its worthwhile yet.. Several of our alternative energy plans have already created bigger long term environmental issues than they fixed... its not something that's a simple solution because if it was someone would have surely found it by now... there is just too much damn money in it not to...

 

[Spike]

You know what us soothsayers say..........Give us our crystal balls and we can save the world!


Giant glass orb could replace the solar panel

https://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/advisor/giant-glass-orb-could-replace-solar-panel-135221605.html

 

[Ron Burgundy]

If they can perfect large scale battery storage for energy in general, the entire landscape of our energy policy can change... but like I said they just are not at the point where its worthwhile yet.. Several of our alternative energy plans have already created bigger long term environmental issues than they fixed... its not something that's a simple solution because if it was someone would have surely found it by now... there is just too much damn money in it not to...

I don't want to have to choose between heat in my car and making it up the hill to my house in the winter. I don't regard that as progress. Oh wait, save the planet, right....

 

[madinsomniac]

The other thing to keep in mind is that this is mostly a PR stunt... , yes McCarthy is a ... well lets say extremist who makes Lisa Jackson look tame, and she will put out regs ASAP, but lets be realistic... the supreme court ruled that they could regulate CO2 under the existing clean air acts without further congressional action ... those carried a strong mandate that the EPA take business, particularly small business into account.. they had to show the proven impact their actions would create along with a proven benefit... look at all the regs they had tossed out by the courts in the past 20 years... they repeatedly fail to meet this mandate with pollutants that haven't near the economic impact that CO2 would... beyond that its unlikely any reg would be able to be enacted before the next president was in office... and he or she wont be a lame duck. Lets ignore that doing things this way is sure to get any reg tied up in the courts because congress will challenge it out of spite if nothing else... the last batch of regs to make it (so far) through the legal process were published in 2012 and wont take effect until next year... so this is nothing but a pipe dream... its got zero chance to actually happen... its just President Obama blowing smoke up the climate change faction's *****... The Court's CO2 ruling was years ago... why in the world would they wait until now to launch this... well unless it was just an attempt at a legacy pr move...