Our Free Agent Signings.....

[slashsteel]

If someone would of said that the Steeler would sign this many free agents, with several potential starters in the bunch, 3 months ago, I would of not belived it.

Very unusual, but very productive off-season, for the Steeler organization.

I called for it. With over 20 free agents. And two 8 and 8 campaigns, I felt they needed to be active.

Mitchell and Blount are upgrades.

Decent amount of depth signings, with a few more needed later............

 

[bermudasteel]

Based on our depth, I would give Keisel more than vet minimum. I think he's a starter (over Cam Thomas).

You have to make the carrot for him worth another season of damage to his body. He's got money, family, security.

I think it's going to take a minimum $1.5 million and maybe $2 million to get Keisel to play this year and I'm fully on board paying him that much to keep starting at RDE...

Not sure I agree; but, we shall see. See my next statement below...

The Cam Thomas signing baffled me Del. Surely I would like to see what Arnfelt has on the field BUT what if it's not 'starter quality' stuff? Has the 360#+ Cam Thomas shown better stuff on tape? Not in my opinion. In fact, I see a guy who had a tremendous 'up-side' coming out of the draft look like he stopped trying to get better. He is much heavier and squishier than he was at 330#. His lack of playing time and offers from even his own team shows how little they valued him. There was a small 'run' on big guys as the FA season opened and we panicked IMO. Maybe the contract's 1 million SB is really 'just in case' money to the FO. All I know is, 1 million guaranteed PLUS another million to play this year seems like a lot to me when you can get a dedicated, productive vet like Diesel for the same money.

Perhaps a "change of scenery" will do Cam some good. Let's not write him off before we see his production in our system.

If someone would of said that the Steeler would sign this many free agents, with several potential starters in the bunch, 3 months ago, I would of not belived it.

Very unusual, but very productive off-season, for the Steeler organization.

I like the moves this off-season. And the potential to bring back some quality backups as well.

Can't wait til the draft is done!!!

 

[steelpastor]

http://www.Invalid Link - Check SN Home Page/2011/07/2011-2014-nfl-minimum-base-salaries/

I think you can still include a nominal signing bonus ($65,000 or something) and still have the player count as a "minimum contract" player.

When you sign a veteran to a minimum contract, he does NOT count full amount against the salary cap (it's the only case where the dollars spent don't equal dollars on the salary cap). I think he counts like a 1st year player of something ($495,000) plus the signing bonus (if you did it or not).

I could be off in the 10's of thousands but it's not that big of deal in the scheme of things. When you sign a 10-year veteran to a 1-year, minimum contract ($955,000.00) with a $65,000 signing bonus he only will count like $550k or $560k against he salary cap, thus replacing one of the many low salary players making up spots #45 to #51 on our salary cap list (by dollars).

Del,

Is it possible to give a vet some incentives in the contract that would only be reached if he ends up having to take A LOT of snaps? Like with multiple injuries? Can this be done and have it NOT appear in the cap numbers unless the circumstances occur? I could see Games Started being an incentive for Keisel or Harrison. Or Sacks for James or Tackles for Brett.

.

 

[deljzc]

Del,

Is it possible to give a vet some incentives in the contract that would only be reached if he ends up having to take A LOT of snaps? Like with multiple injuries? Can this be done and have it NOT appear in the cap numbers unless the circumstances occur? I could see Games Started being an incentive for Keisel or Harrison. Or Sacks for James or Tackles for Brett.

.

TMC might know more about how likely to be earned (LTBE) and non-likely to be earned (NLTBE) incentives work now in the new CBA. Tricks using those two things were used a lot back when salary cap room couldn't be "carried over" into the next year (like it does now).

The old rules on incentives were like this:

An "incentive" in a contract is categorized as LTBE or NLTBE. How that is determined is a bit of a mystery but mostly if a player reached that incentive LAST YEAR, then it is considered likely to be earned. Brett Keisel had 564 snaps, 4 sacks, 20 tackles and 9 assists and 1 forced fumble in 2013.

If you put an "incentive" of like 500 snaps or 2 sacks or 20 tackles into Keisel's contract (things he might agree to), then those things would be classified LTBE.

LTBE incentives count immediately on the salary cap. It's like they are considered base salary for the purposes of salary cap accounting. If you make an incentive that in UNLIKELY to be earned (like let's say 5 sacks for Keisel), then if would not count on this year's salary cap.

At the end of the season when all these incentives are either gained or not gained by the players, you adjust what happened on your salary cap books in the next season (so if you've been carrying a LTBE incentive on your books all year and the player didn't get it, you gain a CREDIT on next year's salary cap). If you haven't been carrying an ULTBE incentive and that player gets the bonus, then you add that money to your next year's salary cap accounting (thus you get less cap room for next year).

That's how incentives work (or they did in the old CBA)

 

[SteelerSask2]

Loved the Mitchel and Blount signings. Blount fits much better than MJD would have and has way more tread left on the tires. Felt Lance Moore was a nice plan B when Cotch signed elsewhere. Cotchery is a good example of Tomlin's failure as a coach. It took till the guys last year of a three year run till he got to show what he could do, and then he left. The rest are backups at best IMO. I hope DHB doesn't make this team. I will cringe every time the ball goes deep to his side. Kinda like when we had Limas Sweed.

 

[Drink IRON City]

http://www.Invalid Link - Check SN Home Page/2011/07/2011-2014-nfl-minimum-base-salaries/

I think you can still include a nominal signing bonus ($65,000 or something) and still have the player count as a "minimum contract" player.

When you sign a veteran to a minimum contract, he does NOT count full amount against the salary cap (it's the only case where the dollars spent don't equal dollars on the salary cap). I think he counts like a 1st year player of something ($495,000) plus the signing bonus (if you did it or not).

I could be off in the 10's of thousands but it's not that big of deal in the scheme of things. When you sign a 10-year veteran to a 1-year, minimum contract ($955,000.00) with a $65,000 signing bonus he only will count like $550k or $560k against he salary cap, thus replacing one of the many low salary players making up spots #45 to #51 on our salary cap list (by dollars).

I thank you sir!!!!! As said before, you are a wealth of knowledge and appreciated here greatly.


Salute the nation

 

[Stryker]

Loved the Mitchel and Blount signings. Blount fits much better than MJD would have and has way more tread left on the tires. Felt Lance Moore was a nice plan B when Cotch signed elsewhere. Cotchery is a good example of Tomlin's failure as a coach. It took till the guys last year of a three year run till he got to show what he could do, and then he left. The rest are backups at best IMO. I hope DHB doesn't make this team. I will cringe every time the ball goes deep to his side. Kinda like when we had Limas Sweed.

I would have rather had Jason Avant than Moore. Avant is a poor man's Ward. Great blocker. Willing to use his body to make the tough catch. Reliable hands. Plus he was productive. Moore....meh.....

 

[CorpusDsteelers]

Dhb is a great blocker and the dude can fly not to mention his size is a plus. Even with his drops he can impact the special teams. Who knows maybe a coach say something he can fix. Everything I've read on the guy was he's a team player and is willing to put in the work. Big Ben also throws balls that are more catachable than most nfl QB's maybe that helps. I doubt any of us here could catch even 3 out of ten for a elway type lol.So happy about the blunt pick up bonus he's on like 25. What a great off season. I agree that best best pick up was oline coach.

 

[steelpastor]

.

Del,

Many thanks.

So, as I see it... other than a subsidy (of sorts) for signing a 10-year vet (for example), the benefit is minimal. I gather that the main purpose is to keep vet players who will agree to vet minimum contracts from being pushed out by younger/cheaper talent (especially for roster depth). The team is paying the full vet minimum salary but only a percentage of it is calculated into the cap total.



.

 

[SteelChip]

I really believe that Keisel is done. He has repeatedly stated that he would retire before playing for vet min ($955,000) and he is 36 yrs old.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...=epk9X7_hW62brcYskQtGlg&bvm=bv.65058239,d.ZWU

 

[TMC]

TMC might know more about how likely to be earned (LTBE) and non-likely to be earned (NLTBE) incentives work now in the new CBA. Tricks using those two things were used a lot back when salary cap room couldn't be "carried over" into the next year (like it does now).

The old rules on incentives were like this:

An "incentive" in a contract is categorized as LTBE or NLTBE. How that is determined is a bit of a mystery but mostly if a player reached that incentive LAST YEAR, then it is considered likely to be earned. Brett Keisel had 564 snaps, 4 sacks, 20 tackles and 9 assists and 1 forced fumble in 2013.

If you put an "incentive" of like 500 snaps or 2 sacks or 20 tackles into Keisel's contract (things he might agree to), then those things would be classified LTBE.

LTBE incentives count immediately on the salary cap. It's like they are considered base salary for the purposes of salary cap accounting. If you make an incentive that in UNLIKELY to be earned (like let's say 5 sacks for Keisel), then if would not count on this year's salary cap.

At the end of the season when all these incentives are either gained or not gained by the players, you adjust what happened on your salary cap books in the next season (so if you've been carrying a LTBE incentive on your books all year and the player didn't get it, you gain a CREDIT on next year's salary cap). If you haven't been carrying an ULTBE incentive and that player gets the bonus, then you add that money to your next year's salary cap accounting (thus you get less cap room for next year).

That's how incentives work (or they did in the old CBA)

Pretty cut and dry. I think that is a good description. The basic premise is, if they did it the season before and that is your incentive benchmark, then it is LTBE. If they did not do it the season before, it is NLTBE. Incentives in rookie deals are automatically LTBE.

And, just for clarification since the early discussion was about veteran minimum contracts, VETMIN contracts cannot have incentives. They are simply 1-year deals, at the minimum salary for years played, with a maximum signing bonus of $65,000. No extras. I know you know Del, but just clarifying for others that are reading.

 

[Black & Gold Bleeder]

VETMIN contracts cannot have incentives. They are simply 1-year deals, at the minimum salary for years played, with a maximum signing bonus of $65,000. No extras..

So Kiesel could sign a low salary contract but above vet minimum and get a better signing bonus which is what he may be after??

 

[Drink IRON City]

Glad we got that Kohn guy, to keep track of this kind of stuf!!! As one can see, it does get quite complicated. Thanks for explanations, along the way.
I'd sign Kiesel, slightly above vet min, w/signing bonus, but cap friendly.


Salute the nation

 

[TMC]

So Kiesel could sign a low salary contract but above vet minimum and get a better signing bonus which is what he may be after??

Sure. He can sign anything, but you only get cap relief for minimum salary one year deals. I think he will want $1.5-$2M a season as a jumping off point. If Hood can get $4M, Keisel is worth half that.........hell, may be worth half that in 5 more years if Hood is setting the bar.

 

[USDA#1]

Mitchell - could be a grade A signing

Blount - nice move, nice price

Thomas - a cut above "just a guy"....thin cut...gonna get reps.

Heyward - Bey - just in case they manage to NOT get a WR in the draft....clusterfuck roulette

Moats - runs and hits....Chris Carter, Jint Iggle has yer price gun ready.

McCain - ok, whatever.....he has starter experience.

Moore - I think this guy is much better than most of yinz credit....imo, better than Sanders.

I think they'll give LSH a chance to show he's healed.

edit: I like the Podlesh signing...not just nice stats....nice stats kicking a frozen ball into the wind.

 

[Drink IRON City]

Sure. He can sign anything, but you only get cap relief for minimum salary one year deals. .

I'm pretty sure Keisel, won't sign for "vet" minimum. Hopeful thinking on my part, but, He would be worth 1.5 to 1.8mil, if healthy!!!!!



Salute the nation

 

[Stryker]

If Keisel lacks the option, he will sign for vet min. No one is clammering to pick him up. Who are we competing against? Retirement? The only play is vet min or don't play ever again. It's a better play for the steelers since they get the waiver for vet min salary. Otherwise, god speed beard...

 

[TMC]

If Keisel lacks the option, he will sign for vet min. No one is clammering to pick him up. Who are we competing against? Retirement? The only play is vet min or don't play ever again. It's a better play for the steelers since they get the waiver for vet min salary. Otherwise, god speed beard...

Or, he could opt to hang it up instead of busting his body up for $900k. I doubt he is hurting for money right now.

 

[Steel Ballin]

If they are getting $8M of cap space after June 1, why are we so concerned about signing vets for the minimum? We're mainly just talking about Harrison and Keisel, right?

 

[Litos]

If they are getting $8M of cap space after June 1, why are we so concerned about signing vets for the minimum? We're mainly just talking about Harrison and Keisel, right?

About 5 millions to sign the rookie class I think. That leaves us with only 3 to sign up any vets, think of any extension and leave something else for an emergency.
Not much room left actually

 

[Steel Ballin]

I thought it took only $3M to sign the rookies,...leaving $5M for extensions and vets...with the extensions potentially gaining more cap space.

 

[deljzc]

It actually only takes about $2 million in cap "room" to sign the rookie draft class.

Remember, every drafted player you "sign" actually displaces someone else's salary you are already counting (a minimum salary guy). For the round 4-7 guys, that's almost a wash. Only the first and 2nd round picks really ADD a lot to your salary cap number and with the new salary structures, it's not really all that much.

 

[Steel Ballin]

Ok so back to my question...with $8M in space being available post June 1 why are we so concerned about signing Keisel and/or Harrison to minimum or nothing at all?

 

[Superman]

http://www.Invalid Link - Check SN ...umber-already-projected-to-break-140-million/

So in essence, the Steelers have roughly $78 million allocated for 2015 or roughly just under 56% of a $140 million cap number.</p>
<p>The Steelers of course have a whole draft class yet to sign and will likely extend several contracts before the start of the 2014 season, but overall, the team looks to be in good shape cap wise for 2015.

 

[Superman]

and, for ***** and giggles brought on by speculation...

http://kffl.com/static/nfl/features/freeagents/fa.php?option=All&y=2015