Parkland school shooting safety commission recommends arming teachers

[Superman]

https://www.wtsp.com/article/news/p...ssion-recommends-arming-teachers/67-623249234

Parkland school shooting safety commission recommends arming teachers

A series of missteps led to the massacre of 17 students and staff in the Parkland shooting, according to the state commission investigating the shooting.
Author: Grady Trimble
Published: 9:36 PM EST December 12, 2018
Updated: 4:13 AM EST December 13, 2018

TALLAHASSEE, Fla. -- A series of missteps led to the massacre of 17 students and staff in the Parkland shooting, according to the state commission investigating the shooting.

“To me, the abundant finding is a total system failure, breakdown, whatever you want to call it,” said Polk County Sheriff Grady Judd, a member of the commission.

From the shooter making it onto the campus in the first place to staff failing to call a code red, the commission outlined everything that went wrong at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in February.

Perhaps the most controversial is that the commission voted to recommend arming teachers. It also discussed putting in place an active shooter policy, training for it, and having a system to communicate a 'code red.'

The commission even talked about punishing schools or districts that don't comply.

While those recommendations take time, the commission also highlighted steps schools can do right away, such as locking doors and gates during school, giving teachers the ability to quickly cover doors and windows, and identifying areas where students can hide from gunfire coming through windows and doors.

Andrew Pollack, whose daughter Meadow died in the February shooting, isn’t part of the commission, stepping down earlier this year. He said he doesn't have much hope for just recommendations.

“They’re not going to make changes because of recommendations,” he said. “The only way to make changes is through legislation. To force them to do it.”

The commission is meeting again Thursday. The final report is due to the governor by the first of the year.

One of the biggest failures the commission found is that the school resource officer never went into the building to confront the shooter.

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

What? Sanity prevails? Guess this won't get major media play.

 

[Superman]

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.............

 

[Vincent]

Oh, look!

'We're not looking for a fair fight. We're looking at an overwhelming advantage'......That's deeply insensitive. - editor

Florida School Hires 2 Combat Veterans to Take Down Active Shooters
Manatee School for the Arts, a charter school for middle and high school students in Palmetto, Fla., is employing combat veterans who carry Glock handguns and semiautomatic rifles.......Why semi-auto?! editor

By Christina Caron | Feb. 11, 2019

By the end of February, the students at Manatee School for the Arts in Palmetto, Fla., will see two combat veterans in body armor roaming the grounds, each carrying a 9-millimeter Glock handgun and a semiautomatic rifle with a 17-inch barrel.

If an armed intruder were to enter the campus, “we’re not looking for a fair fight,” Bill Jones, the principal, said in an interview. “We’re looking at an overwhelming advantage.”

Legislation passed after the Parkland massacre last year requires schools in Florida to have at least one “safe-school officer.” Manatee School for the Arts, a charter for 2,100 middle and high school students, is the only school in Manatee County that chose to hire guards who carry rifles, according to the Manatee County Sheriff’s Department, which trained the guards.

“It’s just a much more effective weapon than the handgun is,” Dr. Jones said.

The decision to patrol with long guns is “very unusual,” said Michael Dorn, the executive director of Safe Havens International, which has performed security assessments at dozens of public school systems throughout Florida, including three of the state’s largest school districts.

Mr. Dorn said he was not aware of any school guards in the United States who openly carry long guns, though it is not unusual in some areas overseas.

“It’s not something that we typically advise our clients to do for a variety of reasons,” he added, in part because someone might knock out the officer and take the weapon, and it’s more difficult to subdue and handcuff an assailant while carrying a long gun.

Manatee School for the Arts is also adding a guard shack to its entrance and will raise its perimeter fencing by two feet.

Florida’s bill, named the Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School Public Safety Act after the school where the Parkland shooting occurred a year ago this week, gave schools the option of choosing between a school resource officer, who is employed by a law enforcement agency; a school safety officer, who is employed by either a law enforcement agency or by the district school board; or a school guardian, a school employee trained to stop lethal attacks.

“We have guardians in almost all of our elementary schools, and in most of our charter schools,” said Michael Barber, a spokesman for the School District of Manatee County. After Parkland, a New Surge in State Gun Control Laws

The district’s public middle and high schools have school resource officers, he added.

Manatee School for the Arts hired one guardian with 15 years of infantry experience who has now been on campus for a couple of months, Dr. Jones said. A second guardian, also a combat veteran, is finishing his training and will begin working this month, he added.

Guardians are required to complete at least 132 hours of firearm safety and proficiency training.

Dr. Jones said the school hired combat veterans because he wanted guards who wouldn’t hesitate to go after a gunman.

“I don’t want this to be the first time they’ve had someone shooting at them,” he said.

So far, Dr. Jones said, “most parents have been very accepting.”

To assuage safety concerns about the high-powered weapons, the school requires its guardians to keep the chambers of their Kel-Tec RDB semiautomatic rifles empty, and the guns are not stored on campus.

The presence of an armed guard doesn’t necessarily deter violence. During the shooting last February that left 17 in Parkland dead, there was an armed school resource officer standing by the door to the building who was later widely criticized for not entering. (He said he thought at the time that the gunman was outside.)

And in 2016, a teacher in Michigan was grazed in the neck by a bullet when a school resource officer negligently fired his gun. And in some cases, agitated students have grabbed officers’ guns, even while the guns were in holsters.

Dr. Jones estimated that the total cost of the new security measures would be close to $200,000 for the 2018-19 school year, and said the armed guards would earn a yearly salary of about $50,000. It “substantially exceeds” the money received from the state, he added.

Despite the heightened fear over school shootings, active shooters are statistically rare.

Unintentional injury, which includes traffic accidents and drowning, is the leading cause of death for American school-age children.

“Our mind-set is so locked into the rare but truly catastrophic active-shooter event,” Mr. Dorn said.

On school property, students and school employees are more likely to die by suicide than a mass shooting, he added.

Spending a lot of money to arm security officers addresses only one type of school safety concern, said Amanda Klinger, the director of operations at the Educator’s School Safety Network, an organization that trains educators and administrators in violence-prevention measures.

“We don’t know that those security interventions will stop the things that they’re seeking to stop,” Ms. Klinger said. “My question is, what else are they doing to keep kids safe in schools? What are they doing to keep kids safe from risks or threats other than active shooters?”

 

[Steelr4evr]

Better to be prepared for those whose cheese slides off the cracker,than to be a sitting duck.

 

[SteelChip]

Finally some common sense.

At least it seems that way.

 

[Steeltime]

The presence of an armed guard doesn’t necessarily deter violence. During the shooting last February that left 17 in Parkland dead, there was an armed school resource officer standing by the door to the building who was later widely criticized for not entering. (He said he thought at the time that the gunman was outside.)

And in 2016, a teacher in Michigan was grazed in the neck by a bullet when a school resource officer negligently fired his gun. And in some cases, agitated students have grabbed officers’ guns, even while the guns were in holsters.

Three points in response to these little tidbits in the article:

1. The issue is not about "deterrence," it is about response. Trained armed guards can respond to a shooter and stop him - unarmed and untrained teachers cannot do so with any effectiveness.
2. Second, accidents happen, but seriously? The worst **** they could come up with is one accidental shooting grazing a teacher? I thought school shootings were out of control, endemic, spreading, and such a huge danger. So one accidental shooting with minor injuries is not a fair trade-off to responding to those shootings? Hmm, something is out of balance here.
3. Third, suspects go for guns. Have for a very long time. Cops have suspects grabbing for guns a lot and I know this based on my own personal discussions with cops. So should we disarm cops? Of course not. Therefore, the "grab at the gun, even in the holster" red herring is a big fat nothingburger.

 

[Vincent]

Three points in response to these little tidbits in the article:

It was a NYT 'article' Take it with a grain of salt. Should have posted the Blaze article which references the NYT article instead.

The point is that somebody be woke.

 

[Steel Ballin]

Kel-Tec RDB. It's not an AR-15 so I guess it's ok.

 

[Coach]

The presence of an armed guard doesn’t necessarily deter violence. During the shooting last February that left 17 in Parkland dead, there was an armed school resource officer standing by the door to the building who was later widely criticized for not entering. (He said he thought at the time that the gunman was outside.)

And in 2016, a teacher in Michigan was grazed in the neck by a bullet when a school resource officer negligently fired his gun. And in some cases, agitated students have grabbed officers’ guns, even while the guns were in holsters.

Three points in response to these little tidbits in the article:

1. The issue is not about "deterrence," it is about response. Trained armed guards can respond to a shooter and stop him - unarmed and untrained teachers cannot do so with any effectiveness.
2. Second, accidents happen, but seriously? The worst **** they could come up with is one accidental shooting grazing a teacher? I thought school shootings were out of control, endemic, spreading, and such a huge danger. So one accidental shooting with minor injuries is not a fair trade-off to responding to those shootings? Hmm, something is out of balance here.
3. Third, suspects go for guns. Have for a very long time. Cops have suspects grabbing for guns a lot and I know this based on my own personal discussions with cops. So should we disarm cops? Of course not. Therefore, the "grab at the gun, even in the holster" red herring is a big fat nothingburger.

1 ) The cowardly cop ran away when he heard shots in the Parkland school. Shame on him. The sheriff in the county is going to be booted by the new governor of Florida.


2 ) Shooting incidents are over in a matter of minutes. Often by the time the cops arrive, it's too late.


3 ) Why wouldn't a few teachers who have permits to carry guns, not be able to help?


I think a cop in each school, combined with allowing a few able-bodied teachers who have experience using a gun is the best solution. I also think if you threaten anyone on social media, you should have your guns taken away and be charged with a crime.

On your point #3, I don't see it as the shooter already has a weapon. I know some cops too. Few suspects will try to grab a drawn gun, as they will be shot.

 

[Steeltime]

On your point #3, I don't see it as the shooter already has a weapon. I know some cops too. Few suspects will try to grab a drawn gun, as they will be shot.

The article referenced one of the concerns in arming school security is that during a physical confrontation, an unarmed student can grab for the gun. I pointed out that this happens all the time with cops, and nobody proposes disarming police officers.

 

[Coach]

The article referenced one of the concerns in arming school security is that during a physical confrontation, an unarmed student can grab for the gun. I pointed out that this happens all the time with cops, and nobody proposes disarming police officers.

The amount of unarmed people trying to grab a draw gun pointed at them is a very low number. That person typically gets shot.

Maybe that stuff can happen during an arrest or when a cop is using non-lethal force, but that is mixing apples and oranges.

In a school, the security guard the advantage of being there. The shooter has his own guns. Why would he try to disarm a security person's gun and take it? He wouldn't unless his weapon isn't working or he's out of bullets, and if that's the case he's meat. Meanwhile the security person can stop the attacker quickly.

 

[Steeltime]

The amount of unarmed people trying to grab a draw gun pointed at them is a very low number. That person typically gets shot.

Maybe that stuff can happen during an arrest or when a cop is using non-lethal force, but that is mixing apples and oranges.

In a school, the security guard the advantage of being there. The shooter has his own guns. Why would he try to disarm a security person's gun and take it? He wouldn't unless his weapon isn't working or he's out of bullets, and if that's the case he's meat. Meanwhile the security person can stop the attacker quickly.

Jesus, Coach, for the third time:

The situation described in trying to pry the holstered gun loose arises during a physical confrontation where the criminal tries to get the officer's gun, and where the officer has NOT drawn the weapon. And no, you are absolutely wrong about the frequency - it happens all the time.

Second, armed security and police officers do not withdraw their weapons unless facing a life-threatening circumstance. You have had officers approach your car for a traffic stop, I presume ... do they approach the vehicle with a gun drawn? Of course not, for the following reason.

When the officer draws his or her weapon, then the officer cannot use the baton, or taser, or fists, or other weapon. Lethal force has become the only option. If the suspect charges the cop when he has his baton drawn, he can use the baton and avoid shooting (and very possibly killing) the suspect. If the cop has drawn a weapon, the only available response is to shoot.

For that reason, A LOT of times when the cop and a suspect get into a physical altercation, the gun remains in the holster. The criminal tries to pry it loose. Happens a lot. Many, many years ago (during law school), I worked for a law firm that represented a ton of cops, and the stories about a wrestling match turning into a scramble for the holstered weapon were prevalent. Happens way more than you apparently think.

Here are stories about a suspect trying to take the gun away from the officer - a couple where the suspect did so and used the gun to kill the cop:

https://www.dispatch.com/news/20180...killed-after-suspect-takes-his-gun-police-say

https://fox13now.com/2015/01/13/pol...pt-to-commit-robbery-at-market-officials-say/

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/ne...spect-struck-officer-tried-take-gun/86327492/

https://www.kmbc.com/article/suspec...hooting-police-officer-officials-say/25598727

https://fox4kc.com/2019/01/06/suspect-shot-and-injured-by-kansas-city-police-officer/

https://abcnews.go.com/US/rookie-trooper-shot-dead-suspect-stole-cop-gun/story?id=56836125

 

[Coach]

Jesus, Coach, for the third time:

The situation described in trying to pry the holstered gun loose arises during a physical confrontation where the criminal tries to get the officer's gun, and where the officer has NOT drawn the weapon. And no, you are absolutely wrong about the frequency - it happens all the time.

Second, armed security and police officers do not withdraw their weapons unless facing a life-threatening circumstance. You have had officers approach your car for a traffic stop, I presume ... do they approach the vehicle with a gun drawn? Of course not, for the following reason.

When the officer draws his or her weapon, then the officer cannot use the baton, or taser, or fists, or other weapon. Lethal force has become the only option. If the suspect charges the cop when he has his baton drawn, he can use the baton and avoid shooting (and very possibly killing) the suspect. If the cop has drawn a weapon, the only available response is to shoot.

For that reason, A LOT of times when the cop and a suspect get into a physical altercation, the gun remains in the holster. The criminal tries to pry it loose. Happens a lot. Many, many years ago (during law school), I worked for a law firm that represented a ton of cops, and the stories about a wrestling match turning into a scramble for the holstered weapon were prevalent. Happens way more than you apparently think.

Here are stories about a suspect trying to take the gun away from the officer - a couple where the suspect did so and used the gun to kill the cop:

https://www.dispatch.com/news/20180...killed-after-suspect-takes-his-gun-police-say

https://fox13now.com/2015/01/13/pol...pt-to-commit-robbery-at-market-officials-say/

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/ne...spect-struck-officer-tried-take-gun/86327492/

https://www.kmbc.com/article/suspec...hooting-police-officer-officials-say/25598727

https://fox4kc.com/2019/01/06/suspect-shot-and-injured-by-kansas-city-police-officer/

https://abcnews.go.com/US/rookie-trooper-shot-dead-suspect-stole-cop-gun/story?id=56836125

YOU DON'T GET IT. If there is an active shooter in a school and the security people have guns, they will be DRAWN. They won't be taken.

 

[Aussie_Steeler]

https://www.wtsp.com/article/news/p...ssion-recommends-arming-teachers/67-623249234

Parkland school shooting safety commission recommends arming teachers A series of missteps led to the massacre of 17 students and staff in the Parkland shooting, according to the state commission investigating the shooting.
Author: Grady Trimble
Published: 9:36 PM EST December 12, 2018
Updated: 4:13 AM EST December 13, 2018


the commission also highlighted steps schools can do right away, such as locking doors and gates during school,

I don't think locking doors or gates is a good idea. If you do have an active shooter (or any other type of emergency, such as fire or a gas leak) locking the doors and gates cuts off escape routes for the students (and teachers).