Progress

[POP]

I have to take my hat off to the coaches and team (but if they relapse on any of this and lose this week, I maintain the right to take it back).

For much off this season, we have seen irritating trends trends that have been altered. Do you recall the following?

- A very undisciplined, sloppy team that just had tons of mental errors causing the flags to fly. I was really ticked off by all the penalties, and it sure seemed indicative of a head coach who wasn't able to get the team to focus, or a manifestation of a head coach who himself lacked discipline. Well, since the horrid start on the sloppy play, they have cleaned up that area quite well. Tomlin said they would fix it, and they did. Perfect? No, but much improved, to be sure.

- The overly conservative play calling at the beginning of the season drove most of us nuts. The endless bubble screens were just bad play calling. The overly dink and dunk that Haley seemed to be wanting was just bad football. Since that time, they have turned into the #1 offense in yardage in the entire NFL - something most of us didn't even imagine as even possible. I was hoping to achieve a middle-of-the-road offense, but they have blown that expectation out of the water. (I know being #1 in yardage isn't as good as being #1 in scoring, but it certainly not a bad thing to be #1 in yards.) This team now is so balanced that teams have to "pick their poison" when trying to stop us. Cram up the running lanes to limit Bell, and Ben will rip you apart with Brown, Miller and Bryant. Try to play back to stop the pass and Bell will hurt you.

- OL was sloppy and bad. They still aren't the best in the league, but they are rush blocking very well, and, save for some bad stretches here and there, they have been at least decent at pass protecting for the most part. I think the combination of starting the better players (Beachum over Adams or Gilbert at LT) and the improving and gelling of the five starters, the OL is FINALLY not a weakness.

- The D started off soft as a marshmallow. It's still hardly a juggernaut, but it has tightened when it had to in many of the games they won. We still have some weaknesses,but I think the D can play well enough to win, combined with a prolific O. At least teams can't just run us over like they could the 1st half of the season. That is the most frustrating when you can't stop an opponent from just running down your throats. They seemed to improve the D as the year progressed.

We had lots to gripe about with how the season was going, but I have to give them props when they improved in the weak areas; I know I didn't think much of it was likely, but they did it, up until now. The final two games will tell us a lot about where they stand. If they win both, no one is gonna want to face this team, other than maybe the Pats.

 

[Punxsutawney]

Some valid points, but Beachum at LT was basically an accident. It took both Gilbert and Adams epically failing at the position and Levi Brown, whom they had just traded for, getting injured before they basically had no choice but to give Beachum a chance.

 

[POP]

Some valid points, but Beachum at LT was basically an accident. It took both Gilbert and Adams epically failing at the position and Levi Brown, whom they had just traded for, getting injured before they basically had no choice but to give Beachum a chance.

Oh, I didn't say so in this post, but much of their improvements have been born from being forced into it. I am sure had Haley's ridiculously dinked and dunced offense would still be going on if it didn't fail so miserably. Shoot, going way back, Ben would have not seen the field his fabulous rookie year had injuries not forced him to play. This team does operate in an ego-saving mode to a high degree, which is why I am thankful they are forced into some decisions.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

Some valid points, but Beachum at LT was basically an accident. It took both Gilbert and Adams epically failing at the position and Levi Brown, whom they had just traded for, getting injured before they basically had no choice but to give Beachum a chance.

So you're saying it's a good thing they scouted, evaluated and drafted Beachum? I agree. Otherwise he wouldn't have been here to pick up the slack when Adams and Gilbert failed.

 

[Coryea]

Haley didn't have a dink and dunk offense in Arizona. Arians doesn't like the dink and dunk offense, but yet for some reason they both loved the bubble screens a ton when they got here.
I think the dink and dunk offense is a Tomlin thing.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

Haley didn't have a dink and dunk offense in Arizona. Arians doesn't like the dink and dunk offense, but yet for some reason they both loved the bubble screens a ton when they got here.
I think the dink and dunk offense is a Tomlin thing.

I'm confused. I thought Tomlin doesn't do anything other than motivate (or is it he doesn't motivate), call time outs (at the wrong time), manage the clock (incorrectly) and draft players (poorly and by himself with no input from others). But you're saying that Tomlin mandates the calling of bubble screens, tunnel screens and smoke screens? Hell's bells, that's a lot of responsibility for someone with no experience or concept of Xs and Os.
(Stated with tongue firmly planted in cheek)

 

[Omar10213245]

I'm confused. I thought Tomlin doesn't do anything other than motivate (or is it he doesn't motivate), call time outs (at the wrong time), manage the clock (incorrectly) and draft players (poorly and by himself with no input from others). But you're saying that Tomlin mandates the calling of bubble screens, tunnel screens and smoke screens? Hell's bells, that's a lot of responsibility for someone with no experience or concept of Xs and Os.
(Stated with tongue firmly planted in cheek)

Your tongue is gonna have to tell Tomlin's dick to scoot over so it has enough room to plant itself

 

[SteelBuckeye]

Your tongue is gonna have to tell Tomlin's dick to scoot over so it has enough room to plant itself

I'd tell my tongue to tell Tomlin's dick exactly that ... but I'm kinda preoccupied trying to remove your lips from my ***.

 

[Omar10213245]

I'd tell my tongue to tell Tomlin's dick exactly that ... but I'm kinda preoccupied trying to remove your lips from my ***.

Lol sorry Buckeye, I couldnt resist

 

[SteelBuckeye]

Lol sorry Buckeye, I couldnt resist

Not a problem. I actually laughed ... just couldn't think of a good reply. Believe me, I've heard worse from some others on here (many of whom are mysteriously absent this week).

 

[Steelerfan81]

I think they still run a dink and dunk offense. The only difference now is the emergence of Bryant. He has stretched the field a ton. The dink and dunk is hid a lot lately because the dunks have been thrown to Bell and he turned them into huge plays.

 

[deljzc]

Here is my exact quote on my prediction for the season record:

"I think we go 11-5 and win the division. Likely 3rd seed in the conference. Play either a team in our division or the AFC west as a wildcard game at home.

I see another season of dick slobbering over Tomlin/Colbert and how great they draft, et. al. but next year with a 1st place schedule we will struggle once again to make the playoffs and look woefully inconsistent.

Good enough is this regime's middle name."

So here we are after a few good wins and maybe even headed towards the 11-5 I predicted and a home game vs. a divisional opponent or team from the west.

With this schedule, 10 wins was a MINIMUM performance this season. MINIMUM. We are right where we should be. An average team with an easy schedule playing with a bit of confidence and getting to the playoffs. This happens around the league every season.

What will be important is how we BUILD on success. How can we and will we get BETTER off this off-season? Do we re-build with the same urgency I've seen this year? Do we draft with the sense we are an average team that needs help in a lot of areas or a winner that is only a few pieces from a championship?

That is what really separates the good from the bad franchises in this league. Any team with a quarterback can bounce between making the playoffs, winning 10 games and dropping down to .500 and back and forth. The Cowboys and Saints do that. So has San Diego. So have the Giants. So has Baltimore.

I don't see that urgency from Tombert. I never have. Not in the eight years of this regime. I see a franchise that thinks too much of themselves in good times and downplays the faults when the team fails to reach expectations.

The failures of this regime is not the record, but how they have failed to go for greatness. They have decided to take the easier path most traveled and I fully expect that again this off-season. There is no progressive vision in Pittsburgh. There is only the same. That's why I expect a big drop off in achievement next season even as fans and media begin to pile back on the bandwagon of "The Steeler Way" and "Tomlin the Great and Powerful".

 

[SteelBuckeye]

Well at least Del has stuck around and continued to express his opinion after a win. I respect that.
I'd say that they have not failed to go for greatness on offense. The proof is in the pudding so to speak. The defense however has fallen from its once lofty position and I hope that this is addressed as much as possible through the draft and free agency.

 

[deljzc]

The two best draft choices of this regime are on offense: Antonio Brown and Le'veon Bell. And it's not really close.

Even I admit that I can' put Lacy or Ball above him anymore. Not if you watch the current tape. Bell's losing weight has turned him into a top-5 running back in the league. I still like the other two guys, but if you had a gun to my head, I'm picking Bell in a rather easy decision. That was good work by Tombert.

Brown is even a better find and continues to exceed every expectation level every single season he's been in the league. For five straight years.

Combine those two home runs with the big investment in OL bodies (Pouncey, DeCastro, Gilbert, Adams) and the offense should be getting better. And it just goes to show what getting a few extra base hits in the draft and using a lot of your premier lottery picks on one side of the ball can do. It was a conscious decision by Tombert to do this and to expect the defense to continue at their high pace while doing it would have been foolish.

But good + bad still equals average so just because one side of the scale is now up and the other down doesn't mean we are a better or worse football team as a whole. Might be more exciting. But it's still not necessarily heading towards great.

I just think next year with a tougher schedule and maybe not quite the luck on health (I think we've been very healthy on offense this season), things will regress again. We will see.

 

[Wingman]

Del I'll go one further and say what we are likely to lose on defense will not be able to be picked up in the draft. Last years draft looks like we could have 2 solid players and a possible third but I do not know that any of them will be home runs or truly dominate players it would be nice but it is very early to tell. We are also likely to have signing issues with Worilds Jones is still a question mark and we have no top in the league player anywhere on defense.
In the past a case could be made for Aaron Smith as the best 3/4 end in the game, Casey Hampton as the best nose or at least one of the best, Troy as the best safety, Harrison as the best outside linebacker in the game, Ike was at one time one of the best at his position in spite of the fact he rarely intercepted the ball he made sure the guy he was covering rarely caught the ball. We are now weak or mediocre in all of those areas and having just one or two as a strength would be huge. This draft will not fix it, and if we get very far in the playoffs and have to play a tougher schedule and draft later we may need two or three years to rebuild at which time we will be desperate for a qb. I think this might be the last chance for a while unless we get real lucky with the draft and a few other things to stay competitive.

 

[obxsteeler]

There are a whole lot of people in this world who can point out problems. There are a whole lot fewer who can fix them. In football the people who fix them are usually winners. It might be wise for us to swallow our ego's and understand no matter how wonderful we have been at recognizing problems it has been the coaches and players who have fixed them-and it always will be. Their jobs depend on how well they do it. So we can criticize all we want but it does pay to give credit when it's due. I think it's been a very solid rebuilding year and we'll find out in the next two weeks if we're moving closer to being ready for prime time or still "about 3 bricks shy of a load". Some of us old folks have been here before.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

There are a whole lot of people in this world who can point out problems. There are a whole lot fewer who can fix them. In football the people who fix them are usually winners. It might be wise for us to swallow our ego's and understand no matter how wonderful we have been at recognizing problems it has been the coaches and players who have fixed them-and it always will be. Their jobs depend on how well they do it. So we can criticize all we want but it does pay to give credit when it's due. I think it's been a very solid rebuilding year and we'll find out in the next two weeks if we're moving closer to being ready for prime time or still "about 3 bricks shy of a load". Some of us old folks have been here before.

80's and early 2000's. I'd go so far as to say that having Bettis in the early 2000's hid a whole lot of problems on offense while the defense was dominant. The fact of the matter is that this defense is ranked 19th in the league at a time when the offense is ranked #1 (both in terms of yardage). In the past, the pendulum would have swung in the other direction. Of course, in the past the rules of the game rewarded you for having a defense like we employed. Now, the teams with dominant offenses clearly have the upper hand.

For all that's made of the imbalance between our talent on offense and on defense, I'd point out that there are some pretty good teams in our same position. Baltimore (13th), Arizona (14th), Indy (15th), Pats* (17th), Cinci (20th), Dallas (22nd), Green Bay (23rd), and Philly (27th) are all teams in the playoff hunt/in the playoffs who have defenses that fall outside of the top 10 in total defense. I think that at a time when our "top 10 in the league", Super Bowl core players were getting older, a decision was made in regards to strengthening the unit that would keep us in contention while we "transitioned". Hence, in a league that now favors offense overwhelmingly, they have built an offense that is overwhelmingly superior to their defense. It might not have been the plan that any of us would have chosen, but as a plan it has merit.

Now that the offense has been overhauled to be competitive with any offense in the league, and one that should be able to carry the team while the defense is down, I believe that they have turned their attention to defense. And, they should continue to do so in this next draft and the one after that.

 

[Steelerfan]

Just want to chime in to say how nice it is that two guys (Omar and Buckeye) can jab at each other and be good sports about it. That doesn't happen much on this board. Karma to you both.

 

[Punxsutawney]

For all that's made of the imbalance between our talent on offense and on defense, I'd point out that there are some pretty good teams in our same position. Baltimore (13th), Arizona (14th), Indy (15th), Pats* (17th), Cinci (20th), Dallas (22nd), Green Bay (23rd), and Philly (27th) are all teams in the playoff hunt/in the playoffs who have defenses that fall outside of the top 10 in total defense. I think that at a time when our "top 10 in the league", Super Bowl core players were getting older, a decision was made in regards to strengthening the unit that would keep us in contention while we "transitioned". Hence, in a league that now favors offense overwhelmingly, they have built an offense that is overwhelmingly superior to their defense. It might not have been the plan that any of us would have chosen, but as a plan it has merit.

Now that the offense has been overhauled to be competitive with any offense in the league, and one that should be able to carry the team while the defense is down, I believe that they have turned their attention to defense. And, they should continue to do so in this next draft and the one after that.

I'm not not sure how much focusing on building the offense at the expense of the defense was part of the plan, given all the first round picks and money they've invested on the defensive side of the team since their last Super Bowl appearance. It's not due to a lack of emphasis; it a product of Tombert epically ******** the bed in attempting to rebuild the defense.

Also, total defense is one of the most misleading statistics out there. The Ravens, Cardinals and Patriots, inparticular, have significantly better defenses than the Steelers.

In terms of yards per play allowed, I believe only the Falcons are worse than the Steelers. I also believe the Steelers have given up near, if not the, most 20+ yard plays in the league.

Unfortunately, the Steelers have become "one of those" defensive teams that just about every team and their fans think, "there's no reason our offense should not hang 30+ on these guys."

I honestly cannot recall the last time the Steelers were this inept defensively.

Let's not try to downplay how bad this defense is by taking statisitics out of context

 

[Omar10213245]

Just want to chime in to say how nice it is that two guys (Omar and Buckeye) can jab at each other and be good sports about it. That doesn't happen much on this board. Karma to you both.

Lol thanks. Yeah, sometimes it gets a bit "overly-serious" (me included) around here, its fun to crack wise

 

[SteelBuckeye]

Oh, none of the statistics were taken out of context. They were presented just as they were; the total yardage rankings of the teams listed. Teams who are in the playoff hunt. That's what was presented and stated. Do you disagree that those are the rankings? That the teams listed are in the playoff hunt? If not, then you shouldn't make accusations of taking statistics out of context.

Now, as far as money and picks being spent. Most of that recently has been on the offense. In particular the offensive line has had two first round and two second round picks in the last five years. During that same five years we've also picked Sanders in the third, Bell in the second, Archer in the third, Wheaton in the third, Bryant in the fourth and provided AB (who was a 6th round w/in the 5 year time frame) a second contract. Also, Cotchery, Lance Moore, Darius Heyward-Bey and Blount were all brought in as free agents. Seems like a pretty heavy investment of premium picks and money on offense to me.

They have invested in the defense also during that time ... with draft picks, but not through free agency and not by giving second contracts to deserving players (Keenan Lewis ring a bell?). We can name off the first round picks on defense during the five year window pretty easily. Shazier, Jones, Heyward. Even if we were to agree that Jones is a bust, the jury is still out on Shazier and Heyward is becoming a stud. Second rounders? Worilds and Tuitt. Worilds had one good half year and again the jury is still out on Tuitt. Third rounders? Spence and Curtis Brown. Brown stunk ... Spence has had a pretty solid year after coming back from that knee injury. Fourth rounders? Shamarko, Ta'amu, Allen, Gibson. Ahhh, here's a problem. They have most definitely failed when it comes to taking guys in the fourth round. Guys who would normally provide depth and possibly work their way into starting positions later on.
They have also failed to provide the defense with quality free agent signings like they have provided the offense.

So, other than Jones (if we say he's a bust after two years), Worilds, Brown and a few fourth round depth guys, who have they **** the bed in picking? Most of these picks are still "wait and see" picks in their first few years in the league. Picked while the offense was being focused on and revamped.

Back to back first round LB's and the top two picks being on defense this year says that they have now turned their attention back to defense. These guys are young first and second year starters on defense. Heyward, McClendon, Tuitt, Jones, Shazier, Williams, Spence, Blake, McClain, Allen. I've left off Shamarko and McCullers because they haven't seen much playing time. In any event, they are young and hopefully they will improve. It's a little early to say that they're "****" in my opinion and a little early to say they've **** the bed in picking them or bringing them in.

 

[Punxsutawney]

Oh, none of the statistics were taken out of context. They were presented just as they were; the total yardage rankings of the teams listed. Teams who are in the playoff hunt. That's what was presented and stated. Do you disagree that those are the rankings? That the teams listed are in the playoff hunt? If not, then you shouldn't make accusations of taking statistics out of context.

You implied that all those teams are in the "same position" as the Steelers, as if they all have the same issues defensively, using total defense as evidence. I do not think the Colts, Cowboys, Packers or Eagles have meaningfully better defenses, but also think none of them except for the Packers, have a shot of even getting to the Super Bowl. Rodgers, being the best QB in the game, gives them a shot.

However, if the Steelers had the defense the Ravens, Patriots or Cardinals currently have, they'd be the Super Bowl favorites.

I'm just not seeing this deliberate neglect of the defense, relative to the offense, prior to this year. Who are the key FA additions on offense you seem to be alluding to?

Depending on how far you want to go back, they've spent 1st or 2nd round picks on defense with Hood, Worilds, Heyward and Jones, compared to using similar picks on Pouncey, Gilbert, Decastro, Adams and Bell during that span. There is not exactly a huge disparity in emphasis there.

Among the above defenders, Heyward is clearly the best, but it doesn't look like he's going to develop into the dominant player it looked like he might become last season. Hood was the epitome of "just OK" and was a questionable scheme fit from the beginning. The Jones and Worilds pick were pretty bad, as they're nowhere near the caliber of pass rusher you need at the OLB spots.

In terms of not keeping guys on that side of the ball, you need to actually draft someone worth keeping first. Keenan Lewis has turned out to be a good player, but they chose not to resign him because they had erroneously decided to keep and ultimately pay Cortez Allen instead.

Also, during the past five years, they gave huge, salary cap-eating contracts to Woodley, Timmons, Taylor and Polamalu, not exactly reflecting a reluctance to invest in the defense.

I suppose we may just have to agree to disagree in that I just do not see enough proof to support the "they wittingly sacrificed the defense for awhile to build up the offense" theory.

I think they've just been largely incompetent overall and hitting the jackpot on Leveon Bell, forming perhaps the best QB/RB tandem in the league, has masked a lot of things. I do not think the OL has improved that much either, as Bell is just that good right now.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

We disagree on a few things, but not to a great degree. It's just that sometimes a small degree of difference can change your entire outlook. I see oranges and you see tangerines; same family, but different.

 

[SCSteeler4life]

Pouncey and DeCastro are both having Pro-Bowl caliber seasons. Without them the 3 B's don't put up those numbers.

 

[SteelerFan448]

I think they've just been largely incompetent overall and hitting the jackpot on Leveon Bell, forming perhaps the best QB/RB tandem in the league, has masked a lot of things. I do not think the OL has improved that much either, as Bell is just that good right now.

Throw in Brown and you will not find a better offensive trio in the league. They can't do it alone, which is why we need Wheaton and Bryant to perform on a weekly basis. Assuming those two continue to improve, the offense should be even better next season. Get at least an average defense on the field that can get to the quarterback and you will be talking about a No. 1 seed in the AFC in the future. However, there is little evidence that the defense can make that jump.