Really all comes down to turnovers

[topseed]

I'd like to, but I just can't let you get away with that. Cowher said similar stuff all the time, for example. Things like, "You can't change who you are," and "We are who we are," and so on. How is that really any different?

I agree with the statement about what he does well. I just don't know. I try to figure out what he brings to the table, and the best I can come up with is that he never does seem to lose the team. That is important, but it needs to be more than that, right?

Cowher often talked about game-planning for the opponent. Here are a couple of examples I found:

“The first time you face someone, you are not sure how they are going to approach you on both sides of the ball. I think the second time through, you have a better sense of what they are about. So there is a little bit of adjustment that goes into the game planning on both sides of the ball.”

“I've talked to Russ and Ken and, like I said, it will be later in the week because we're in the process of game-planning for this game. We will provide that opportunity for them but there will be no more discussions about that from here on out.”

You can't change who you are, but you can adjust your gameplan to better prepare your team every week. All opponents are not the same.


Tomlin never losing the team might be a bit of a reach. He's finished some seasons strong, and others not so much. Like 2012, when they started 6-3, then lost 5 out of 6 before beating Cleveland. I think he could have lost the team somewhere along the way there.

 

[diver]

Cowher often talked about game-planning for the opponent. Here are a couple of examples I found:

“The first time you face someone, you are not sure how they are going to approach you on both sides of the ball. I think the second time through, you have a better sense of what they are about. So there is a little bit of adjustment that goes into the game planning on both sides of the ball.”

“I've talked to Russ and Ken and, like I said, it will be later in the week because we're in the process of game-planning for this game. We will provide that opportunity for them but there will be no more discussions about that from here on out.”

You can't change who you are, but you can adjust your gameplan to better prepare your team every week. All opponents are not the same.


Tomlin never losing the team might be a bit of a reach. He's finished some seasons strong, and others not so much. Like 2012, when they started 6-3, then lost 5 out of 6 before beating Cleveland. I think he could have lost the team somewhere along the way there.

I guess. I just think, when it all was said and done, the games looked pretty similar from week to week under Cowher. They tried to establish the run, which they usually did pretty successfully and pass off of that. Defensively, their first priority was to stop the run. I loved it. I loved the fact that they seemed to tell teams they were running the ball and so on and now you try to stop it. Fact is, they had better players overall. When the players are better, the gameplan looks better. When you have players who are not as good or who are not as intelligent and have mental breakdowns, the gameplan doesn't look as good.

To me, a completely legitimate discussion on Tomlin is his ability to evaluate talent and intelligence of players. That we can see, and it seems to be lacking a bit too often. A blind Chinese peasant can see that Dri Archer was a bad pick, they overpaid Jason Worilds, and Mike Adams may never get it. When it gets into the realm of gameplanning and adjustments, I just do not think that is as observable, even if we think it is. How do we know or not if an adjustment was made toward the 4th quarter against the Bengals this past week or if they just started playing better? Combination? We aren't there.

 

[Hineswardkickedurpanzyass]

Look on the bright side if some how we make the playoffs , the teams in the playoffs are good. So we have a better chance. Go figure.

I was arguing with a guy on another forum and told him that IF the Steelers get into the playoff that his *Pats loving *** better watch out because we would have a good shot at knocking them off. He said no way the Steelers cant even beat the Bucs, Jets, etc. I asked him to name a good team that we have lost to.....the only teams he could name are teams that may or may not make the playoffs. Of course the only two teams that we have even played that I am pretty certain will make the playoffs are the Colts and Bungles.

 

[Black & Gold Bleeder]

Mitchell is just terrible and Polamalu has not been much better. They're like ghosts out there, only standing out when they're being punked in the open field.

On the long TD by Green, Green juked Mitchell so badly he fell on his ***.

yeah troy doesn't seem to have his heart in it or something....

 

[slashsteel]

yeah troy doesn't seem to have his heart in it or something....

I don't see that. I think his heart is in it, he simply is age declining. As a lot of his game involved speed and effort initially. It is now less speed.


As far as what happens IF the Steelers reach the playoffs.....

They play well as a underdog, just not well against a underdog.

They could win a game or two...... But with mediocre defense at best. They would have a hard time reaching let alone winning a SB..................this year..........IMO.

 

[skialta]

Wow...Ben is a top three quarterback now?

Manning, Brady, Rodgers, Luck, and Brees. Which three of those guys is he ahead of?

going by this year alone?

he's ahead of brees

 

[skialta]

yeah troy doesn't seem to have his heart in it or something....

i wouldn't say that at all...i think it's a matter of a guy who puts his heart and soul into every single play and he's lost a step or three. ****, how many 200 lb defensive guys could play this game at the same speed, and the same psychical style for a decade plus? none that i can think of

 

[topseed]

I guess. I just think, when it all was said and done, the games looked pretty similar from week to week under Cowher. They tried to establish the run, which they usually did pretty successfully and pass off of that. Defensively, their first priority was to stop the run. I loved it. I loved the fact that they seemed to tell teams they were running the ball and so on and now you try to stop it. Fact is, they had better players overall. When the players are better, the gameplan looks better. When you have players who are not as good or who are not as intelligent and have mental breakdowns, the gameplan doesn't look as good.

To me, a completely legitimate discussion on Tomlin is his ability to evaluate talent and intelligence of players. That we can see, and it seems to be lacking a bit too often. A blind Chinese peasant can see that Dri Archer was a bad pick, they overpaid Jason Worilds, and Mike Adams may never get it. When it gets into the realm of gameplanning and adjustments, I just do not think that is as observable, even if we think it is. How do we know or not if an adjustment was made toward the 4th quarter against the Bengals this past week or if they just started playing better? Combination? We aren't there.

I see what you're saying.

A lot of times quotes from coaches can be taken out of context. But watching Tomlin make those kind of comments with great sincerity is worrisome to me.

 

[topseed]

going by this year alone?

he's ahead of brees

OK, who are the other two?

 

[CharlesDavenport]

OK. I feel Chuck Noll was a great coach too. He's #50 on the all-time win percentage list. Does it make one shred of difference to me that guys like Barry Switzer, Mike Martz, Mike Smith, Mike Sherman, and Jim Caldwell all have better win rates? No, it doesn't. Does it make them better coaches than he was? No, it doesn't.

What is it that Tomlin does well that propels his teams to win at such a high rate?

Most "reasonable" people would wait and see how Tomlin "rebuilds" before handing him yet another extension. He's got two years left on his current deal. What's the rush?

Tomlin's teams win at such a high rate? You have to go back to 2011 for our last winning season and 2010 season for our last playoff win.

 

[topseed]

Tomlin's teams win at such a high rate? You have to go back to 2011 for our last winning season and 2010 season for our last playoff win.

Yes, his teams have indeed won at a high rate. Tomlin (.635) is #21 on the all-time list among coaches with at least 50 decisions. This is the holy number that his supporters cling to, in spite of having little anecdotal evidence as to what he actually does well as a head coach.

 

[Stryker]

Yes, his teams have indeed won at a high rate. Tomlin (.635) is #21 on the all-time list among coaches with at least 50 decisions. This is the holy number that his supporters cling to, in spite of having little anecdotal evidence as to what he actually does well as a head coach.

I'd say he's pretty good at finding offensive weapons and utilizing them...

 

[topseed]

I'd say he's pretty good at finding offensive weapons and utilizing them...

“There are two schools of thought to protect a quarterback,” Tomlin said at the time. ”You can get linemen or you can get him weapons — people that people have to account for. Obviously with [the Mendenhall] pick, we’ve gotten a weapon. So what he is able to do on a football field will help our quarterback and our football team.”

Yes, Tomlin made it pretty clear back in 2008 that his goal was to get some offensive weapons for Ben. He's succeeded with drafting Bell in the second round and having Brown come out of nowhere as a sixth round gem (although Mendy never worked out all that well after his first round selection).

It's too bad his defense, especially the secondary, has suffered so mightily in the meantime. Obviously.

 

[skialta]

OK, who are the other two?

i can't name two. going off of this year alone... i'd say rodgers is 1, and he's a clear 1. i feel like ben is right there with manning and brady THIS YEAR. career wise, manning, brees, brady are all ahead of him. that's just my opinion

 

[Wingman]

“There are two schools of thought to protect a quarterback,” Tomlin said at the time. ”You can get linemen or you can get him weapons — people that people have to account for. Obviously with [the Mendenhall] pick, we’ve gotten a weapon. So what he is able to do on a football field will help our quarterback and our football team.”

Yes, Tomlin made it pretty clear back in 2008 that his goal was to get some offensive weapons for Ben. He's succeeded with drafting Bell in the second round and having Brown come out of nowhere as a sixth round gem (although Mendy never worked out all that well after his first round selection).

It's too bad his defense, especially the secondary, has suffered so mightily in the meantime. Obviously.

DL said it is easier to defend against the pass when the quarterback is on his back.

 

[stillwright]

Another great game in the TO area.....if we don't turn it over we usually win...and to take it a step farther our penalties are way down from the beginning of the season....Props to the players and coaches.