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Republic, not democracy

fedderone

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Why the Electoral College matters and was created in the first place :

https://www.intellectualtakeout.org/article/why-we-are-republic-not-democracy

Hillary Clinton blamed the Electoral College for her stunning defeat in the 2016 presidential election in her latest memoirs, “What Happened.”

Some have claimed that the Electoral College is one of the most dangerous institutions in American politics.

Why? They say the Electoral College system, as opposed to a simple majority vote, distorts the one-person, one-vote principle of democracy because electoral votes are not distributed according to population.

To back up their claim, they point out that the Electoral College gives, for example, Wyoming citizens disproportionate weight in a presidential election.

Put another way, Wyoming, a state with a population of about 600,000, has one member in the House of Representatives and two members in the U.S. Senate, which gives the citizens of Wyoming three electoral votes, or one electoral vote per 200,000 people.

California, our most populous state, has more than 39 million people and 55 electoral votes, or approximately one vote per 715,000 people.

Comparatively, individuals in Wyoming have nearly four times the power in the Electoral College as Californians.

Many people whine that using the Electoral College instead of the popular vote and majority rule is undemocratic. I’d say that they are absolutely right. Not deciding who will be the president by majority rule is not democracy.

But the Founding Fathers went to great lengths to ensure that we were a republic and not a democracy. In fact, the word democracy does not appear in the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, or any other of our founding documents.

How about a few quotations expressed by the Founders about democracy?

In Federalist Paper No. 10, James Madison wanted to prevent rule by majority faction, saying, “Measures are too often decided, not according to the rules of justice and the rights of the minor party, but by the superior force of an interested and overbearing majority.”

John Adams warned in a letter, “Remember democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet, that did not commit suicide.”

Edmund Randolph said, “That in tracing these evils to their origin, every man had found it in the turbulence and follies of democracy.”

Then-Chief Justice John Marshall observed, “Between a balanced republic and a democracy, the difference is like that between order and chaos.”

The Founders expressed contempt for the tyranny of majority rule, and throughout our Constitution, they placed impediments to that tyranny. Two houses of Congress pose one obstacle to majority rule. That is, 51 senators can block the wishes of 435 representatives and 49 senators.

The president can veto the wishes of 535 members of Congress. It takes two-thirds of both houses of Congress to override a presidential veto.

To change the Constitution requires not a majority but a two-thirds vote of both houses, and if an amendment is approved, it requires ratification by three-fourths of state legislatures.

Finally, the Electoral College is yet another measure that thwarts majority rule. It makes sure that the highly populated states—today, mainly 12 on the east and west coasts, cannot run roughshod over the rest of the nation. That forces a presidential candidate to take into consideration the wishes of the other 38 states.

Those Americans obsessed with rule by popular majorities might want to get rid of the Senate, where states, regardless of population, have two senators.

Should we change representation in the House of Representatives to a system of proportional representation and eliminate the guarantee that each state gets at least one representative?

Currently, seven states with populations of 1 million or fewer have one representative, thus giving them disproportionate influence in Congress.

While we’re at it, should we make all congressional acts by majority rule? When we’re finished with establishing majority rule in Congress, should we then move to change our court system, which requires unanimity in jury decisions, to a simple majority rule?

My question is: Is it ignorance of or contempt for our Constitution that fuels the movement to abolish the Electoral College?

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My question is: Is it ignorance of or contempt for our Constitution that fuels the movement to abolish the Electoral College?

Here's my vote

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Dunning-Kruger-Effect.jpg
 
My question is: Is it ignorance of or contempt for our Constitution that fuels the movement to abolish the Electoral College?

Contempt. The Dems don't want to have to appeal to the people in flyover country.
 
It's both contempt for the Constitution and ignorance of history. You have to split it into groups; the elites and the low information voters.

The elites only care about holding power and they will push any idea that will further their power. They have no care at all about people or the country, only that they are in charge of it.

The low information people just don't know any better. They have either been poorly educated (on purpose) or simply don't pay attention. It is easy to convince these people that democracy is being threatened by en evil electoral college that they probably don't even understand.

The entire foundation of the USA is based on striking the balance of power between large states and small states. Between the powerful and the minority. The founders chief concern was tyranny by a monarch or other small group. The whole design of the Constitution is to put as much power in a DIVERSE group of people as possible.

The gridlock is designed to make sure that only the best ideas become laws. The Great Compromise gave us the House with reps based on population and a Senate where everything is equal. It is truly brilliant.

Unless you do not believe in the spirit of democracy. Then the Constitution is an obstacle to getting your way without compromise with the other side and it must be destroyed.
 
My question is: Is it ignorance of or contempt for our Constitution that fuels the movement to abolish the Electoral College?

To me, it is neither. It is a lust for power. They know that the only thing keeping them from one party rule and absolute power in this country is the electoral college. The electoral college is one of the most brilliant and fair things devised by man.
 
I'd be fine with eliminating the electoral college and making them electoral votes, automatically assigned to the winner of the popular vote in their state. Having actual people as electors, some of whom are not even bound by the popular vote, is stupid.
 
That 'they're trying to destroy our democracy' bull@#$% drives me to...

Excellent thread! We're not a damn 'democracy'. We're a Republic... if we can keep it. 'Democracy' is mob rule, which is exactly what the dims are - demonic hoards, which is precisely what, in their prescience, the Founders sought to prevent. Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what to have for dinner. Democracy is two bikers and a coed deciding what to do this evening. There's a reason they call themselves 'democrats'. And a reason they call themselves Republicans. They're the very reasons dims hate Republicans and seek to destroy them.

Obviously one of the 'fronts' (their word) the left has launched is an assault on the very structure of our Republic, most notably the Electoral College. They've assaulted the Amendments. They've assault the duly elected President. Their behavior is exactly that of their forebears prior to their assault on Ft Sumpter. We're in the same situation, but worse because we now have something called a 'media' as the mouthpiece of these seditionists. And worse because what were once Godly institutions of learning are now marxist inculcation prisons that have destroyed the minds of three generations.

A product of that mind destruction is Bobby Francis who is threatening that the Republic might not see its 244th year - “This is an unprecedented attack on this country and on our democracy, and we are owed the facts. And if we do not receive them, 243 years in, there’s nothing that guarantees us a 244th.” That's sedition. That's a direct threat threat to the Republic. What is the difference between that and the last time those pigeons from hell started a civil war?

My fervent hope is that once this Mueller business runs its course the President goes hard on the offensive.. These @#$%s need to be crushed into gruel without mercy. If they ever regain power that's what they'll do to us.
 
My question is: Is it ignorance of or contempt for our Constitution that fuels the movement to abolish the Electoral College?

It's about the dems still butthurt about losing to Trump and looking for "solutions".
Along with abolishing the EC, there also has been talk from the left in allowing 16yr. old's to vote...and reparations that would encourage more blacks to vote.


Solutions man, gotta find solutions.

anybody-notice-electoral-college-wasnt-problem-for-240-years-until-hillary-lost.jpg
 
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It's about the dems still butthurt about losing to Trump and looking for "solutions".
Along with abolishing the EC, there also has been talk from the left in allowing 16yr. old's to vote...and reparations that would encourage more blacks to vote.


Solutions man, gotta find solutions.

anybody-notice-electoral-college-wasnt-problem-for-240-years-until-hillary-lost.jpg

Actually I'd say since Al Gore lost in 2000 but now the Dems know they've lost Middle America.
 
And they want to add more judges to the Supreme Court when they are in control. Nice precedent. There will be more Justices than Senators after a few administrations.
 
Hillary got over 3 million MORE VOTES THAN TRUMP. TELL ME IT AINT ****** UP

WVRON FOWLER
 
Politics? Thought this is a STEELERS SITE

WVRON FOWLER
 
Hillary got over 3 million MORE VOTES THAN TRUMP. TELL ME IT AINT ****** UP

WVRON FOWLER

And if you take away just two or three Counties in whole USA Trump won the popular vote hands down, that is why we have the Electoral College you dolt. ALL CAPS DOES NOT MAKE YOUR ARGUMENT ANY MORE LOGICAL OR CORRECT.
 
To me, it is neither. It is a lust for power. They know that the only thing keeping them from one party rule and absolute power in this country is the electoral college. The electoral college is one of the most brilliant and fair things devised by man.

^^^^^ This! It's about power.

Democracy in pure is mob rule. We're a constitutional republic.

Unfortunately the general public is ignorant,doesn't care and takes whatever media propaganda they see in TV as the gospel.

The day they take away the voices of all states will be the day our republic ends. Those states will have ample right and reason to succeed from this Union for they are no longer a part of it.
 
Majority rule wasn't very popular with Prop 8 in CA....
 
Hillary got over 3 million MORE VOTES THAN TRUMP. TELL ME IT AINT ****** UP

WVRON FOWLER

I question that number. They recently purged the Los Angeles County voting rolls of fake/illegal voter registration. Repeat that across the country and it adds up quickly.
 
54517599_2031167177177235_2654166128229613568_n.jpg
 
Hillary got over 3 million MORE VOTES THAN TRUMP. TELL ME IT AINT ****** UP

WVRON FOWLER

You assclowns are so dumb in preening about the popular vote. You ******* insist that your candidate played a better preseason game (meaningless popular vote) and therefore should be deemed a winner over the candidate who actually won the game that mattered (the electoral vote).

Trump won every contest he needed to win to prevail - North Carolina, Georgia, Iowa, Ohio, Florida, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin.

Every. One.

If Trump needed "x" more votes to win the general election, he would have campaigned on that basis, and would have pried away the necessary votes to win the popular vote. Why do I say that? See above.

So congrats on the meaningless victory. Go celebrate with your meaningless "winner."
 
You assclowns are so dumb in preening about the popular vote. You ******* insist that your candidate played a better preseason game (meaningless popular vote) and therefore should be deemed a winner over the candidate who actually won the game that mattered (the electoral vote).

Trump won every contest he needed to win to prevail - North Carolina, Georgia, Iowa, Ohio, Florida, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin.

Every. One.

If Trump needed "x" more votes to win the general election, he would have campaigned on that basis, and would have pried away the necessary votes to win the popular vote. Why do I say that? See above.

So congrats on the meaningless victory. Go celebrate with your meaningless "winner."

That isn’t even the biggest argument against that.... its that after the election was basically turning up trump, dems turned out in droves in the western states while republicans basically didn’t bother to vote... a lot of dems in the loop like george soros, had been quietly pushing the reality that Trump was going to win the popular vote and lose the EC and they were really cool with that then...
 
Hillary got over 3 million MORE VOTES THAN TRUMP. TELL ME IT AINT ****** UP

WVRON FOWLER

Presidential elections have never been based on the popular vote. Everyone knows what you have to do to win. Been the same for over 200 years. The Dems just want a different system now because they've lost Middle America.
 
You assclowns are so dumb in preening about the popular vote. You ******* insist that your candidate played a better preseason game (meaningless popular vote) and therefore should be deemed a winner over the candidate who actually won the game that mattered (the electoral vote).

Trump won every contest he needed to win to prevail - North Carolina, Georgia, Iowa, Ohio, Florida, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin.

Every. One.

If Trump needed "x" more votes to win the general election, he would have campaigned on that basis, and would have pried away the necessary votes to win the popular vote. Why do I say that? See above.

So congrats on the meaningless victory. Go celebrate with your meaningless "winner."
Counselor,

I do not think that the poster you responded to can understand what you wrote. Sorta like Elfie and Tibs, but with a bunch of WV Archie Bunker mixed in.

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