Ryan Shazier as Defensive Rookie of the Year?

[tapeANaspirin2it]

I think Shazier will have better body control and lateral movement than Timmons. Timmons has straight ahead speed but I can remember a lot of times where he whiffed on a QB because he couldn't control his body or speed.

That's the thing. Over the years Timmons has whiffed on tons of sacks where he either got a free run or just had a RB to beat. He flies in out of control and the QB just moves half a step and Timmons flies right by. He just doesn't seem to have the agility to make a quick adjustment when his target moves.

The same thing happens when he takes on a RB. He gets stoned way too often. The reason is he allows the RB to get a square hit on him because he runs straight into him. If he could adjust a bit he'd beat those RBs more often.

I didn't bring this up as a slam on Timmons. I brought it up to show that Lebeau does give his ILB plenty of pass rush opportunities. Timmons had 5 sacks in his second season which was the first he got significant playing time at ILB 5 sacks and he probably whiffed on at least 5 more.

Shazier has a chance for a good number of sacks provided he can learn quickly enough to be a 3 down player for most of the year.

 

[deljzc]

As with many things going into this season there is a WIDE range of what "could" happen.

We are going to depend on a LOT of snaps from players that don't have a lot of snaps to date for this team. Wheaton, Moore, Bryant, Blount and Archer are all unknowns in Black and Gold for all intensive purposes. Only Brown, Miller and Bell have played more than 200 snaps on offense and we know they aren't getting EVERYTHING so it's who/how is getting the rest that will answer questions.

On defense, we have Thomas, Tuitt and Shazier that could get 1800 snaps between them. That's a LOT. There are still question about Jones and Worilds.

And these questions of young unknowns exists even BEFORE injuries (and we know they will eventually happen). Who on the depth chart that we aren't even planning about is going to get 300-400 snaps this year because of injury? What will they do with their opportunity?

It's going to be an interesting season, that's for sure. Lots of excitement and lots of cursing in my opinion.

 

[ark steel]

I'm calling my bookie and betting all my 401k money on Dri Archer being converted to either CB or Safety and winning DRoY.

and you can write that **** down.

 

[Vader]

As with many things going into this season there is a WIDE range of what "could" happen.

We are going to depend on a LOT of snaps from players that don't have a lot of snaps to date for this team. Wheaton, Moore, Bryant, Blount and Archer are all unknowns in Black and Gold for all intensive purposes. Only Brown, Miller and Bell have played more than 200 snaps on offense and we know they aren't getting EVERYTHING so it's who/how is getting the rest that will answer questions.

On defense, we have Thomas, Tuitt and Shazier that could get 1800 snaps between them. That's a LOT. There are still question about Jones and Worilds.

And these questions of young unknowns exists even BEFORE injuries (and we know they will eventually happen). Who on the depth chart that we aren't even planning about is going to get 300-400 snaps this year because of injury? What will they do with their opportunity?

It's going to be an interesting season, that's for sure. Lots of excitement and lots of cursing in my opinion.

I expect the defense to be much better next year not this upcoming year. The offense is going to have to score some points. The defense is going to be starting a rookie ILB (probably), Worilds at LOLB if he can stay healthy, and Jones at ROLB. Then on the DL you have Heyward as the main guy. But nobody knows who the other end is going to be yet. Whoever plays end is going to be new unless they bring back Keisel. I just think it's going to take time to get up to speed with the changes on defense. And like you said there is almost no depth at any position.

On offense Wheaton worries me. He seems to get nicked up a lot. I'm not concerned with Blount or Moore. Both are vets and know how to play in the NFL.

 

[ark steel]

I expect the defense to be much better next year not this upcoming year. The offense is going to have to score some points. The defense is going to be starting a rookie ILB (probably), Worilds at LOLB if he can stay healthy, and Jones at ROLB. Then on the DL you have Heyward as the main guy. But nobody knows who the other end is going to be yet. Whoever plays end is going to be new unless they bring back Keisel. I just think it's going to take time to get up to speed with the changes on defense. And like you said there is almost no depth at any position.

On offense Wheaton worries me. He seems to get nicked up a lot. I'm not concerned with Blount or Moore. Both are vets and know how to play in the NFL.

I agree.

I think that whoever is manning the other ILB position will be better than Williams was last year. Jones shouldn't be worse (could he be?) and Worilds, if in the game, should be better. While I am, obviously, a Timmons fan, he won't be as good at calling the D as Foote was. What Foote lacked in athleticism, I think he had in smarts. Timmmons has the athleticism but not the gajillion years of experience Foote had. All in all, either a push or a plus at every position in the LB crew.

The DB's ought to be no worse than last year. More experience for Cortez and the CB's should be able to rely on Safety help better.

Even with those two groups, the DL will be a question mark. Hopefully, Heyward's success will make teams think about doubling him and freeing someone else up. I'm more sure that Shazier starts the first game than I am about Tuitt who I think has less chance. Tuitt, barring injury, should be starting before year end, though.

 

[AggieSteel]

Agreed w/ Vader on almost everything.

Although there is definitely a part of me that has a glimmer of hope that all these young guns will come up very quickly and we will be a "deep run in the playoffs" worthy team THIS YEAR.

What concerns me about Wheaton is not necessarily him getting nicked up (although that does bother me some), but rather the fact that he gets no separation. And I'm talking his college tape. I'm glad he can make catches in traffic, but I don't think I've seen more than one or two clips of him breaking into the open field and running after the catch or taking one to the house. I'm not saying he's not capable but it seems to me like his biggest plays are when defenders are draped all over him and all his TD's are because he catches one when he's already in the end zone. I dunno maybe I'm just not seeing it right.

For all intents AND purposes..

 

[keslerclan]

I think Shazier will have better body control and lateral movement than Timmons. Timmons has straight ahead speed but I can remember a lot of times where he whiffed on a QB because he couldn't control his body or speed.

I agree. Lebeau likes to create pressure up the middle and really hasn't had the right guys to do it since Chad Brown started in the middle in 1995. Chad moved outside in lebeau's last year here in '96 due to an injured Lloyd and put together a great season. Shazier is a missile. He might whiff a few BUT he will get there. The difference is with Heyward and McClendon, we might see another year like we had in '95 w Ray Seals who had 8.5 sacks.(Heyward plays to this style on the right)

With Jones taking the outside (swooping around the pocket), Heyward will have his chances in the pocket in front of him. With Worilds taking a more direct line (like Woodley before him) it forces the QB to step up to the right side of our defense OR bail outside to the left side of our defense. This is where Shazier could make some hay. He can come in from his 'zone' quickly up the middle (as he often did at OSU or he could attack the left-side edge if the QB chooses to scramble out of pressure created (hopefully) by Worilds. He can close quickly and is more under control when he gets to his target (especially if his target is not a 'shifty' RB or WR type of player). The key to this working is the health and production from Worilds on the left. I have no doubts that Jones will typically remain with "looping" types of pressures from the right because he is not a bull-rusher. Neither was Lloyd in '95. Although Lloyd was much faster and stronger with his hands and arms than Jones, he created the same type of outside pressure which sent the QB 'up' in the pocket towards the waiting arms of Seals or worse to the defensive left-side to Greene, Buckner or Henry. The left side racked up (including Greene, Kirk, Buckner and Henry) a total of 15 sacks with the right-side (including Lloyd, Seals and Brown at ILB) a total of 20.5 sacks.

I don't think Shazier will approach 10 sacks (like the article suggests) BUT 20 pressures along w 5 sacks would not be out of the realm of possibility, IMO. Those pressures lead to TOs when the Qb is looking for a way 'not to get hit'. That is where Shazier could earn his draft position, IMO.

I hope Tuitt can be a good fit on the left as I don't think Thomas brings the agressiveness on the DL at all. He is better as a situational fill-in due to his obvious lack of conditioning, imo.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

And last year everyone was saying Jarvis was going to be droy. How about letting him play and see if he any good first

I hate the off-season.

 

[Vader]

I agree. Lebeau likes to create pressure up the middle and really hasn't had the right guys to do it since Chad Brown started in the middle in 1995. Chad moved outside in lebeau's last year here in '96 due to an injured Lloyd and put together a great season. Shazier is a missile. He might whiff a few BUT he will get there. The difference is with Heyward and McClendon, we might see another year like we had in '95 w Ray Seals who had 8.5 sacks.(Heyward plays to this style on the right)

With Jones taking the outside (swooping around the pocket), Heyward will have his chances in the pocket in front of him. With Worilds taking a more direct line (like Woodley before him) it forces the QB to step up to the right side of our defense OR bail outside to the left side of our defense. This is where Shazier could make some hay. He can come in from his 'zone' quickly up the middle (as he often did at OSU or he could attack the left-side edge if the QB chooses to scramble out of pressure created (hopefully) by Worilds. He can close quickly and is more under control when he gets to his target (especially if his target is not a 'shifty' RB or WR type of player). The key to this working is the health and production from Worilds on the left. I have no doubts that Jones will typically remain with "looping" types of pressures from the right because he is not a bull-rusher. Neither was Lloyd in '95. Although Lloyd was much faster and stronger with his hands and arms than Jones, he created the same type of outside pressure which sent the QB 'up' in the pocket towards the waiting arms of Seals or worse to the defensive left-side to Greene, Buckner or Henry. The left side racked up (including Greene, Kirk, Buckner and Henry) a total of 15 sacks with the right-side (including Lloyd, Seals and Brown at ILB) a total of 20.5 sacks.

I don't think Shazier will approach 10 sacks (like the article suggests) BUT 20 pressures along w 5 sacks would not be out of the realm of possibility, IMO. Those pressures lead to TOs when the Qb is looking for a way 'not to get hit'. That is where Shazier could earn his draft position, IMO.

I hope Tuitt can be a good fit on the left as I don't think Thomas brings the agressiveness on the DL at all. He is better as a situational fill-in due to his obvious lack of conditioning, imo.

I have no illusion that Shazier, as much as I like him, will approach 10 sacks. It's his rookie year and the system is difficult to understand. But I think Shazier has enough physical ability to take more advantage of his gaps when he gets them. I still worry about Jones and Worilds. Jones, by his own admission, isn't any bigger and Worilds is always hurt. I think there is going to be some growing pains. However the silver lining in all this is the schedule which is one of the easiest in the NFL. Everything is lined up for them. They play their tough games at home and only leave the Eastern time zone once best I remember. They get the Saints at home late in the year. So they should easily get 10 wins unless Ben or Brown get hurt.

 

[steelpastor]

.

I do agree... Shazier is NOT getting ten sacks. However, I very much agree that he can get the job done with 4-5 sacks and a whole-lotta getting in the grill of the opposing QB. I think we could be light years ahead of last year in applying up the middle pressure.

.

 

[CorpusDsteelers]

I'd take 5 sacks two or three picks and a fumble or three maybe one for a TD. He's got great speed and good size.

 

[antdrewjosh]

Question was the key to Jones offseason to get bigger or to get stronger? I dont think i want him bigger.

 

[Drink IRON City]

As with many things going into this season there is a WIDE range of what "could" happen.

We are going to depend on a LOT of snaps from players that don't have a lot of snaps to date for this team. Wheaton, Moore, Bryant, Blount and Archer are all unknowns in Black and Gold for all intensive purposes. Only Brown, Miller and Bell have played more than 200 snaps on offense and we know they aren't getting EVERYTHING so it's who/how is getting the rest that will answer questions.

On defense, we have Thomas, Tuitt and Shazier that could get 1800 snaps between them. That's a LOT. There are still question about Jones and Worilds.

And these questions of young unknowns exists even BEFORE injuries (and we know they will eventually happen). Who on the depth chart that we aren't even planning about is going to get 300-400 snaps this year because of injury? What will they do with their opportunity?

It's going to be an interesting season, that's for sure. Lots of excitement and lots of cursing in my opinion.

Lots of good points. The start of the season will be a question as to how well/fast this youth movement can gel. I'm hoping fast, but understand it will take a little time.

I'm calling my bookie and betting all my 401k money on Dri Archer being converted to either CB or Safety and winning DRoY.

and you can write that **** down.

WEARing out the pen as I'm writing !! After reading the entire Archer thread, I'm totally on board.

Question was the key to Jones offseason to get bigger or to get stronger? I dont think i want him bigger.

Thought I read a article, a week or two ago, about his strength conditioning. Sounded like he was getting stronger, but not bigger?


Salute the nation

 

[Wingman]

Lots of good points. The start of the season will be a question as to how well/fast this youth movement can gel. I'm hoping fast, but understand it will take a little time.



WEARing out the pen as I'm writing !! After reading the entire Archer thread, I'm totally on board.




Thought I read a article, a week or two ago, about his strength conditioning. Sounded like he was getting stronger, but not bigger?


Salute the nation

I'd settle for better.

 

[Badcat]

Bell was a beast and one of my favorite players to go back and watch the next day after the game. I cant count the times he would blow up an OL. Literally put them on their back. Lift them totally off their feet then sack the QB or make a play in the backfield. It was amazing. Also that Cleveland playoff game he unreal. Loved Bell.

CAH taped that game for me and I still watch it from time to time, and like you, I love seeing how dominant he was. He could have been very very special.

 

[deljzc]

The thing about our youth movement:

1. It can happen fast.

2. It can happen slow.

3. It can not happen at all.

There are enough question marks on many players we are counting on for a lot of snaps to not really know for sure where those players will end up landing on the above options.

 

[Litos]

The thing about our youth movement:

1. It can happen fast.

2. It can happen slow.

3. It can not happen at all.

There are enough question marks on many players we are counting on for a lot of snaps to not really know for sure where those players will end up landing on the above options.

whatever of those options occur, we have to start finding it out this year, no more lateral moves. Baptism by fire

 

[slashsteel]

whatever of those options occur, we have to start finding it out this year, no more lateral moves. Baptism by fire

not sure a DE isn't still needed

 

[AggieSteel]

not sure a DE isn't still needed

I'd like to see Arnfelt get more of a look. He really held his own in preseason last year. I think he could be a real sleeper on this roster

 

[Black & Gold Bleeder]

I'd like to see Arnfelt get more of a look. He really held his own in preseason last year. I think he could be a real sleeper on this roster

totally agree.. between him ,,, tuitt and baby zilla .... I think they will handle it. I do love kiesel though.