season goes south, and a top 5 pick, pick a franchise QB/WR/CB or passrusher?

[deljzc]

you are willing to take on a possible problem at your most critical position?

I would think the club would go in a different direction in light of Ben's past issues.

early but I think there should be talent sitting there at that position if that's the path the Steelers wanted to go...........

In my opinion, I don't think the Winston issues are that big a deal. To date.

I'm not sold on the sexual assault merits (just like I wasn't in the Roethlisberger cases). I think the autograph thing is pretty typical at all college campuses now. I think there are a lot of ways to get spending cash into the FBS players' hands.

Of all the issues I hate the stealing crab legs the most, but for all we know the guy at the counter said... here you go Jameis, on the house and he just walked out like he was told to do.

Smart? No. Immature and spoiled? Yep.

But most are at this point and they all have warts, except maybe an Andrew Luck caliber player. But let's face it. We aren't getting an Andrew Luck guy. We aren't going to have the #1 pick overall anytime soon (unless we have a year where we lose Roethlisberger for the season).

From my understand of Winston on the football field and baseball field, he's actually a pretty smart, stand-up leader. He does have some work ethic. And that type of athlete (with that type of baseball/football background) are pretty unique at his size.

The evaluation isn't CLOSE to being done yet, but we have been pretty "safe" or "frivolous" in our picks lately. Winston is the type of athletic game changer that might fall in the draft because of non-football issues and give us an opportunity to "catch up" talent-wise to the rest of the league for the next decade (or at least not fall behind it by leaps and bounds once Roethlisberger is done).

It also presents an interested and tempting scenario of getting a quarterback to build around while giving us oodles of cap room to finally play with. The combination of getting Roethlisberger off the books in 2-3 years (either franchise tagging him or tag-and-trade) combined with maybe some added draft picks AND money to play with in free agency could help fix the talent issues around here a lot faster than letting Tombert use #15 picks year-in, year-out.

It's just an interesting what-if. As with my discussion of a Roethlisberger trade to Houston last year for TWO first round picks (and getting a Bortles for example), I never what to say nothing is off the table right now for this team.

 

[Vader]

I remember you wanting Bridgewater not Bortles. Also the fact still remains the same: why would anyone trade 2 1st round picks for a QB when the very fact that have a high 1st round pick means they need more than a QB? Why trade for Ben if you can just draft the QB the Steelers would take with that pick? The fact is that a team is not going to destroy their future to take a QB that another team is willing to trade away only to draft a QB the original team could draft with that pick.

 

[deljzc]

I remember you wanting Bridgewater not Bortles. Also the fact still remains the same: why would anyone trade 2 1st round picks for a QB when the very fact that have a high 1st round pick means they need more than a QB? Why trade for Ben if you can just draft the QB the Steelers would take with that pick? The fact is that a team is not going to destroy their future to take a QB that another team is willing to trade away only to draft a QB the original team could draft with that pick.

Because not every coach likes the same people.

I still think Houston would be a Super Bowl contender, right now, with Roethlisberger and not Clowney. The fact Houston didn't want Bortles even though they needed a quarterback shows different evaluation of different players.

I agree the window and trade value of Roethlisberger goes down every year. I do not think two first round picks is on the table probably anymore (but might have been last year). We are probably talking 20% of Roethlisberger's remaining games lost every year now. And his trade value is probably exponentially lost compared to that.

Arizona is talking a contract extension for Carson Palmer for Christ's sake. If that stuff still exists out there, there HAS TO BE a trade market for Roethlisberger than includes first round compensation plus.

Sometimes teams just get tired of the "picking top-5" MO. Have all those top-5 picks helped Oakland? St. Louis? Cleveland? Sometimes it's okay to use those picks on non-quarterbacks and bring in a veteran (Cleveland kind of did that exact thing to get to .500). What would Cleveland look like with Roethlisberger instead of Hoyer?

I don't know but it only takes one GM to take the bite.

Again, just like last year, I threw things out early about trading Roethlisberger and by the time the draft rolled around I was on record at not liking Bridgewater or Bortles enough to do it. Now I'm talking more of seeing if someone like Winston FALLS to us should we take him? Can we keep Roethlisberger for his last contract year with no extension while giving us a year to see what Winston really is? Can we tag-and-trade Roethlisberger in 2016 for even ONE first rounder then transition into Winston?

Having someone like Winston on the roster creates some interesting decisions IF Winston is a legit starting QB in the league. From a between-the-lines football talent right now, I don't see how Winston isn't a legit starter in this league. He's just got too many god-given check marks on the things you look for at the position. He only needs to grow up and take it. I just don't see the same red flags I see in someone like Jamarcus Russell (who he compares too physically).

IF this really is a rebuilding process (and many fans think it is), then there HAS to be some legit discussion that it's not going to happen quick enough that Roethlisberger is part of the process. And every year you wait you loose the ability to get an asset for Roethlisberger in trade.

I've stated it's an embarrassment Tombert got us to this point where the word rebuilding is even part of a Roethlisberger team. That's a different discussion. But it does appear to be happening.

 

[Vader]

For the record I don't want Winston. It just isn't the off the field issues. He reminds me of a smaller Jamarcus Russell. Big Arm with a 2 cent head. I've watched a lot of FSU and he sees the guy he wants to throw it to and throws it. He isn't a QB that is going to read a defense and make timing throws. Because FSU has such a ****** schedule he hasn't seen a very good college defense yet outside of ND at home last night. He sucked against Oka. St. throwing 1 TD and 2 ints. But he's team is good enough to win even if he doesn't play well. All he has to do is not screw anything up. Just like Russell and LSU a few years back. Racking up stats against Citadel and Wake Forrest doesn't impress me.

Right now Ben is the best chance for the Steelers to win in the next 4 years. You don't throw away a proven QB in today's NFL for a knucklehead college QB.

 

[Zack_of_Steel]

Someone made the Ben/Winston comparison on another board. This is how I feel (I'll exclude the parts rehashing Ben's three off-field "incidents"):

Ben is in no way comparable to Winston other than the fact that they were both accused of rape. Ben had no problems through college and is articulate. Winston is half retarded and has had numerous problems just in college, where he was actually at fault.

-Winston has been accused of rape, but not charged. We don't know much about the situation, except that semen was found, she was bruised, but her blood was clear of drugs, and Winston was never even interviewed. Winston's roommate admitted to having taped part of what happened, but stated it was not rape. Winston's DNA was taken much later and was a match for the semen on her underwear. The alleged victim and her parents claim that the investigator tried convincing her to drop the charges because "it's a football town". He has worked with the Seminole Boosters, a group that provides a lot of funding to FSU.

The investigation has been marred by shoddy police work and FSU failed to conduct their paltry investigation until after he had played the entire 2013 season, so most evidence was lost.

-He has multiple instances where he caused trouble with a ******* BB gun. He and other players broke windows at his apartment while having a BB gun fight and he also brought one onto campus to shoot squirrels. The police were involved both times (well, campus police in the second encounter).

-Winston antagonized a Burger King worker by walking in and repeatedly drinking soda from the fountain out of ketchup cups after she declined to give him a water cup to steal it. The chick had to call the police.

-He stole crab legs from a store...

-He stood on a table on campus and repeatedly yelled "**** her right in the *****" and was suspended a game for it.

-Now he's being accused of selling autographs.


I don't claim to know that he raped the girl, it could've happened as he and his roommate say. However, his semen was found on her clothing, she was bruised, and another girl that had had sex with Jameis ("she did not say 'no'") saw a counselor afterward because of the encounter. There's mountains more here against Jameis than there ever was against Ben.

Ben was guilty of being a fratboy douchebag, but if you knew anything about either accusation, you know he didn't rape anyone. In Winston's case, there is or was actual evidence against him.



I would not draft him. Even ignoring the rape allegation, he's proven to be inexplicably moronic.

 

[hardcore12]

Ben has a strong 6 years left in the league period. He is about to sign a huge contract for 5-7 years this off season.

You draft what we've needed for years. A joe Thomas LT. Move beachem to LG and then go CB round 2 and 3.

 

[6Rings]

I would not mind taking an OL in the first round, if the value is there.

 

[Steel Not A Player]

If you're going to keep the 3-4 there are two players you must have:

1) A dominating NT. A Casey Hampton, Haloti Gnata, Vince Wilfork type that can eat up space and dominate the center. A true 2 gap player that can keep the linebackers clean. Without this player, the 3-4 simply will not function properly. Joel Steed and Casey Hampton filled that role for the better part of 15 consecutive seasons. There's no one there now, and you can see the result. I've argued for years that Hampton is a HOF player, but no one will listen. Take away Hampton and we are short 2 rings.

2) A dominant outside rush linebacker. Lloyd, Porter, Harrison. You must have that player. This defense does not work without that player, and on every one of our dominating defenses someone filled that role. Jarvis Jones is playing on the wrong side. He's a hustle player like Haggans and Woodley before he got fat. Worlids should would not start on any other team. You must have an impact player who can bend his shoulder and beat LTs one on one. That player is currently not on our roster, though HoJo may have that ability in time.


If you don't fill these two roles in the coming draft, nothing short of a switch back to the 4-3 will help this defense. McCullers is slated to play for the first time this season. If he turns out to be something, maybe you can cross off one of those things. But only if he's dominant. His height, and the fact that it's a cut blocking league now, don't bode well for his success though.

 

[Ghost of Frenchy Fuqua]

Ben has a strong 6 years left in the league period...

Six years might be pushing it. Sometimes he labors like Walter Brennan (that's for all of you over 55 types).

It's time to start grooming a young QB. And even though I'm an Okie by birth, I don't think Landry Jones will be that guy.

 

[SteelfanLBC]

We don't control either side of the line of scrimmage at this point. That needs to stop. We know it won't happen via free agency. I go with the biggest game changer within the trenches.

 

[Hineswardkickedurpanzyass]

We don't control either side of the line of scrimmage at this point. That needs to stop. We know it won't happen via free agency. I go with the biggest game changer within the trenches.

We already have Dri Archer, what the hell else do we need?

 

[Wingman]

We already have Dri Archer, what the hell else do we need?

someone who can see over the water bucket

 

[fogdoctor]

They will just take the best Tampa 2 defender and force him into the 3-4 where it will take him 3 years to become an average starter.

This is funny - but not really because that is what we are going to do.

 

[TDX27]

I give Ben 3 to 5 years tops. No chance I would draft Winston this season and probably wouldn't look for a Ben replacement until next year or later. Ben will have to be monitored closely though - especially toward the end of a season. If his play tails off significantly, pulling the QB draft trigger needs to happen.

As much as I called for us drafting the big uglies on the O-line and D-line for many years, we finally did some of that but nothing has really panned out yet. On that front, we need to learn from Dallas or some other teams. Dallas now has a good QB, a great RB and a great WR. We aren't far behind them in that category but their very young O-line (at least one rookie starting) is much better than ours. They are scoring TD's and we are getting FG's, at best.

This coming year, we need to either draft a shut down corner or pick one up in free agency. We have a ton of high picks at LB. Hopefully, they start to show something. Worilds is gone unless he takes a $3 million per year contract. I do not sign him or anyone to a deal like Cortez or whoever the fat *** on the O-line was we just signed. We signed them to a lot of money just because they didn't have anyone better. Come on, man!!!!!!!!!!! If they aren't worth the money, then don't pay them the money. We need to stop doing that **** and start drafting better or play the free agency card. Enough of this crap of being in cap hell.

 

[Hollywood Bags]

QB definitely.

 

[Bigappleyinzer]

I give Ben 3 to 5 years tops. No chance I would draft Winston this season and probably wouldn't look for a Ben replacement until next year or later. Ben will have to be monitored closely though - especially toward the end of a season. If his play tails off significantly, pulling the QB draft trigger needs to happen.

As much as I called for us drafting the big uglies on the O-line and D-line for many years, we finally did some of that but nothing has really panned out yet. On that front, we need to learn from Dallas or some other teams. Dallas now has a good QB, a great RB and a great WR. We aren't far behind them in that category but their very young O-line (at least one rookie starting) is much better than ours. They are scoring TD's and we are getting FG's, at best.

The thing is- Dallas' offense, on paper, SHOULD be better than ours.

RB and QB is a wash. In the playoffs or crunch time- I obviously would take Ben over Romo.

Oline-
Their OLine has 3 first rounders. We have 2 and have been plagued by injury. Nevertheless, I believe the arrow is pointing up for our group- as seen by our YPC.

Wr- Dez Bryant is clear cut #1. He is a mismatch for any Cb in the league, and also causes problems in the RZ.

TE- I love Heath. But the guy ran a 4.90 40 9 years ago! Wouldnt be surprised if Pouncey is faster than him at this point. The other TE's? Invisible.

Look, our offense is good and also improving. But we may have to curtail our expectations.

 

[Steelerfan]

Wow. Week 7 and we are already talking draft. Maybe they should tank the season if there are a few players worth doing it for. Indy "sucked for Luck" and it worked for them. We could try the same strategy. "Shame us for Jameis" has a nice ring to it.

 

[Steeltime]

We could try the same strategy. "Shame us for Jameis" has a nice ring to it.

If the Steelers drafted Jameis Winston, I would start killing people.

 

[JupiterBnG]

If you take a QB in the top 5, does he compete for the starting job right away, or is it like all the other "project" QBs we've drafted and flushed over the years, waiting for Ben's career to come to a close? I think if you take a QB like that, you more or less have to commit to giving him a legit chance to take the starting job away from Ben, and believe that he will. Or else you have to cut Ben loose and commit to a whole new offensive plan.

 

[kev4heels]

If we somehow land in the top-5, our pick better be Randy Gregory or Andrus Peat/Cedric Ogbuehi.

 

[Omar10213245]

If you take a QB in the top 5, does he compete for the starting job right away, or is it like all the other "project" QBs we've drafted and flushed over the years, waiting for Ben's career to come to a close? I think if you take a QB like that, you more or less have to commit to giving him a legit chance to take the starting job away from Ben, and believe that he will. Or else you have to cut Ben loose and commit to a whole new offensive plan.

Hey! Omar Jacobs was a winner!

 

[kev4heels]

If the Steelers drafted Jameis Winston, I would start killing people.

Doesn't matter b/c they won't. The FO wouldn't' go within 100 feet of him with his off-field "issues". Not saying they are all true or not true. However, they won't get involved in Winston.

 

[FordFairLane]

I think we can go CB, OT or pass rusher with this pick. I don't think we need a WR so unless a receiver is head and shoulders better than the rest on the board we don't go that route. Same with QB unless a guy is so much higher on the board than the rest I doubt we go QB. I think a LT or a pass rusher actually helps the team the most right now. If you look at the Browns game if Ben would have had 1 more second on a few key plays we get some TD's on the board. Also, I think a pass rush would help our secondary a lot. It is hard for me to blame Allen, Taylor, McCain, Gay, TP, or Mitchell sometimes when the QB stands back there for 4-5 seconds and goes thru his progressions with ease time and time again. That's a pass rush problem. Now that said I do think we need an upgrade at CB but I would say LT and pass rush are the two spots that help immediately.