Seriously... Math@!

[SteelChip]

Doctors, healthcare, insurance....wtf ? There are important hearings going on right now and you guys want to talk about trivial **** like that ?

 

[Steeltime]

Not an exaggeration? It’s a retarded exaggeration. Unless a doc is incredibly unproductive, no way in hell are they paying 60-75%. That’d be $300k+ for most docs. Ob/Gyn pay the most and self-insured group practices pay $70k/doc.

Self-insured OB/GYN group practices for a lot of jurisdictions DON'T have doctors pay just $70k for the coverage. The average premium for insurance coverage (not self-insured) for OB/GYN professionals in Florida and Nevada, for example, run from $85,000 per year up to $200,000 per year.

https://equotemd.com/blog/obgyn-medical-malpractice-insurance/

Self-insurance is designed to reduce overhead, but the undeniable fact is that when the self-insured provider is hit with a claim, the costs are extremely high - legal fees, expert fees, indemnity costs, etc. A self-insured provider could not get approval from the state's governing board with just $1 million in total payments for 15 doctors for a calendar year.

No state would let the provider be so underfunded. OB/GYN malpractice costs are so enormous due to the "date of discovery" rules, which mean that a "bad baby" case may not arise until 4 years after delivery, or 8, or maybe even 18 if the statute is tolled until the child turns 18.

So your fictional self-insurance premiums of a combined $1 million per annum for 15 OB/GYN physicians would cover claims over as much as 18 years? Yeah, right. One bad verdict - ONE - would bankrupt that fund several times over. One claim - not a bad verdict, but just ONE CLAIM - would barely be covered by that fund.

Jurisdictions differ, of course. For example, California's premiums are lower due to a law dubbed "MICRA," which limits emotional distress damages for any malpractice claim to $250,000. That limit has been in place for more than 40 years.

Further, do you have any clue as to how medical practices and hospitals currently keep their doors open? Private insurance, that's how. Practitioners can refuse Medicare patients (a lot do) or limit the number of Medicare patients they see (almost every standard-reimbursement provider in practice does so). They actually lose money on Medicare patients because the reimbursement is so low.

In August, I described hospital monopolies as “the most predatory force in our health-care system.” But perhaps I was being too hard on hospitals, because the biggest driver of hospitals’ predatory behavior is an even larger predator: the federal government.

The Medicare Payment Advisory Commission, or MedPAC, is an independent Congressional agency that advises Congress on Medicare-related issues. The Commission puts out two lengthy reports a year, one in March and one in June, describing its recommendations. Dan Diamond of California Healthline points us to an interesting factoid from the March 2011 MedPAC report: 64 percent of U.S. hospitals lose money, on average, treating Medicare patients.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/aroy/2...lose-money-on-medicare-patients/#6027c34021b8

A recent study published in the journal Health Affairs analyzed 2013 hospital income from patient care, omitting revenue from other sources such as student tuition, donations, and investments. Data were obtained from federal sources and included information from about 3,000 facilities, just under 60 percent of U.S. hospitals.

Fifty-five percent of hospitals lost money on each patient they served in 2013, according to the study. One-third of hospitals had net profit of less than $1,000 per discharged patient. Only 12 percent of the hospitals studied received net profits of more than $1,000 per patient when payments from insurers, government, and the patients themselves were included.

The Affordable Care Act’s influence on hospital mergers and acquisitions is contributing to a massive consolidation of multibillion-dollar integrated healthcare systems including hospitals, medical practices and clinics, and even health system-owned insurance companies. A one percent profit margin in a $5 billion healthcare system is $50 million, which is a lot of money. However, that same hospital system needs $1.2 billion, or the equivalent of 24 years of $50 million in annual profits left untouched, to maintain a 90-day cash reserve in its budget.

The study demonstrates that a few hospitals make significant profits from patient care, some make a little, and more than half actually lose money. Policy makers and advocates distracted by a few big numbers may cause a lot of damage to the majority of hospitals whose sustainability is at risk.

https://nonprofitquarterly.org/half-of-us-hospitals-lose-money-on-patient-care/

So the imbeciles touting "Medicare for all" and "single payer" are too ******* stupid to realize that Medicare is like the lazy, drunken brother who sits on the couch all day playing video games, while private insurance is the other brother goes to work, works 10 hours per day, pays the bills, and keeps the lights on. The idea that killing the working brother is a good idea is possible only for people dumb and lazy enough to be (D)imbo liars.

 

[Troglodyte]

Yeah, crazy.
Not all docs are multi-millionaires who perform unnecessary cosmetic procedures on the Kardashians and Jersey Shore cast.
Most doctors make good money comparatively speaking, but your 300K per doc = 60-75% of Doctor salary is ignorant.
Unless you do contracting and credentialing for doctors, please spare me your google search rebuttals.


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I do contracting for docs. MGMA median for primary care is $240k plus value-based comp. I know primary care docs that make $700k.

 

[fedderone]

I do contracting for docs. MGMA median for primary care is $240k plus value-based comp. I know primary care docs that make $700k.

I'm sure you do.
But I know that particular figure is an outlier, an anomaly, and not the norm or anywhere near the national average.

I know a 4 year old that can compute and explain trigonometry and calculus.
But I wouldn't interject that fact into a conversation as a base for preschool children's mathematics capabilities.