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Steelers add Guard - Herbig

steelreeling said:
Which is why i hated this signing - it didn't f*ckin fit. Not with all the trap, gadget and pull plays that Canada called in his inside-zone read running offense.
Now the Steelers have signed Seumalo. Now Herbig makes some sense.

Green is likely gone. Cole, Chuks & Dot are likely backups after camp. Daniels will most likely be the starter at center. The offensive line will likely become much more thick in the ***.
The Steelers look as if they are ready to punch the rock straight down the defense's throat. Clearly, they are gonna protect Pickett from receiving big whollaping hits.

Look for a mauler Right Tackle in the first 2 rounds/ rest of FA. If the O commits to this: 1. Pickens will be pii... issed & 2. it could get real interesting and in a big way for Muth.
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Hate is a strong word, my man.

I think that the Steelers have made a significant overall improvement with their starting interior lineman, and also added versatility and depth. They still need an upgrade at tackle, and I would agree that they will address that early in the draft.
 
topseed said:
I think the fact that the Steelers signed not one but two guards doesn't bode well at all for Dotson. Both are upgrades in my opinion.
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i would go so much farther than even that.

Not only are they upgrades, the two guards are the team's best offensive linemen by a wide margin. Wide as hell.

Both aught to start from Day 1. If either one of them doesn't, sh*t is really screwed up on the coaching staff.
 
steelreeling said:
i would go so much farther than even that.

Not only are they upgrades, the two guards are the team's best offensive linemen by a wide margin. Wide as hell.

Both aught to start from Day 1. If either one of them doesn't, sh*t is really screwed up on the coaching staff.
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James Daniels is better than Nate Herbig.
 
topseed said:
James Daniels is better than Nate Herbig.
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Think so? why?

i'm not so sure. Eagles offensive line, and Herbig in the run game in particular, was so damn dominant this year.
i dont know. I would lean Herbig over Daniels.

But if i'm interested in running the ball all day long - taking the ball out of Pickett's hand and keeping him un-concussed - then i go Seumalo LG - Daniels at Center - Herbig RG.

If Canada gets loose, benches Dot for Seumalo and throws Cole & Daniels in pass pro then i gotta think most defenses bring the kitchen sink every single down, f*ck gap responsibility and run D. That would be... bad.
 
steelreeling said:
Think so? why?

i'm not so sure. Eagles offensive line, and Herbig in the run game in particular, was so damn dominant this year.
i dont know. I would lean Herbig over Daniels.

But if i'm interested in running the ball all day long - taking the ball out of Pickett's hand and keeping him un-concussed - then i go Seumalo LG - Daniels at Center - Herbig RG.

If Canada gets loose, benches Dot for Seumalo and throws Cole & Daniels in pass pro then i gotta think most defenses bring the kitchen sink every single down, f*ck gap responsibility and run D. That would be... bad.
Click to expand...
 
steelreeling said:
If Canada gets loose, benches Dot for Seumalo and throws Cole & Daniels in pass pro then i gotta think most defenses bring the kitchen sink every single down, f*ck gap responsibility and run D. That would be... bad.
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Daniels was a very good pass blocker after the break and Seumalu is an extremely good pass blocker. Also, Jaylen Warren absolutely mauled pass rushers on double team hits. If teams try to rush hard up the gut, they are going to be hammered. Seumalu, Cole, Daniels and Warren are going to blow up interior blitzes.

Still worry about Moore Jr. and the speed rush.
 
steelreeling said:
Think so? why?

i'm not so sure. Eagles offensive line, and Herbig in the run game in particular, was so damn dominant this year.
i dont know. I would lean Herbig over Daniels.

But if i'm interested in running the ball all day long - taking the ball out of Pickett's hand and keeping him un-concussed - then i go Seumalo LG - Daniels at Center - Herbig RG.

If Canada gets loose, benches Dot for Seumalo and throws Cole & Daniels in pass pro then i gotta think most defenses bring the kitchen sink every single down, f*ck gap responsibility and run D. That would be... bad.
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Problem is with that statement is Herbig was on the Jets this last season. Not that Herb doesn't have a shot at starting. He does.
 
Herbie Herbig is NOT a big dude, he is a smaller guy than all of our IOLs except Green. He is just on a donut diet and is fatter. His ONE benefit is that he is more technical than big Dot (not saying much) and was tutored by the best OL coach working the league presently at Philly.

He will be an upgrade to Dotson IF he starts but Seumalo will definitely start at one of the OG spots sooo... maybe he is our IOL back-up. The only thing that might change is if they want to move on from Mason Cole, moving Daniels to OC where he was in college and that puts Herbie in the mix at OG. If we are keeping Cole at OC, Herbie is only a better back-up than what we had...maybe, IMO. Lots of guys in this draft are better IOLs than Herbie on paper so I'm not sure what the plan is.

Yes, Herbie played his last 11 games for the Jets but he played his first 33 games with Jeff Sutherland coached OL in Philly. That was IMO, why the Jets signed him.
 
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keslerclan said:
Herbie Herbig is NOT a big dude, he is a smaller guy than all of our IOLs except Green. He is just on a donut diet and is fatter. His ONE benefit is that he is more technical than big Dot (not saying much) and was tutored by the best OL coach working the league presently at Philly.
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As Slash noted above, Herbig played for the Jets. Seumalo played for the Eagles.
 
keslerclan said:
Herbie Herbig is NOT a big dude, he is a smaller guy than all of our IOLs except Green. He is just on a donut diet and is fatter. His ONE benefit is that he is more technical than big Dot (not saying much) and was tutored by the best OL coach working the league presently at Philly.

He will be an upgrade to Dotson IF he starts but Seumalo will definitely start at one of the OG spots sooo... maybe he is our IOL back-up. The only thing that might change is if they want to move on from Mason Cole, moving Daniels to OC where he was in college and that puts Herbie in the mix at OG. If we are keeping Cole at OC, Herbie is only a better back-up than what we had...maybe, IMO. Lots of guys in this draft are better IOLs than Herbie on paper so I'm not sure what the plan is.

Yes, Herbie played his last 11 games for the Jets but he played his first 33 games with Jeff Sutherland coached OL in Philly. That was IMO, why the Jets signed him.
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I know they don't change weights from the rookie numbers, but Herbig is listed as the heaviest player on the Steelers roster. Seeing him in a jersey makes me feel that number is accurate, maybe even a little light.
 
steelreeling said:
Think so? why?

i'm not so sure. Eagles offensive line, and Herbig in the run game in particular, was so damn dominant this year.
i dont know. I would lean Herbig over Daniels.

But if i'm interested in running the ball all day long - taking the ball out of Pickett's hand and keeping him un-concussed - then i go Seumalo LG - Daniels at Center - Herbig RG.

If Canada gets loose, benches Dot for Seumalo and throws Cole & Daniels in pass pro then i gotta think most defenses bring the kitchen sink every single down, f*ck gap responsibility and run D. That would be... bad.
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steelreeling said:
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I think so because Daniels has started every game in which he's played since week 7 of his rookie season in 2018. He was solid for the Steelers last season, got better as the year went on, and didn't allow a sack in 1160 snaps. Herbig wasn't even on the Eagles' offensive line last year, and he only started 5 games for them in 2021 -- so I don't know how or why you're relating Herbig to their dominance.
 
topseed said:
I think so because Daniels has started every game in which he's played since week 7 of his rookie season in 2018. He was solid for the Steelers last season, got better as the year went on, and didn't allow a sack in 1160 snaps. Herbig wasn't even on the Eagles' offensive line last year, and he only started 5 games for them in 2021 -- so I don't know how or why you're relating Herbig to their dominance.
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If you are basing that opinion on more durability - then i get where you are coming from. Herbig has had so many injury problems.

Also Re Herbig, as it was mentioned Herbig was indeed on Jets i admit, but it was also mentioned that he cut his teeth learning from the best OL coach in the league on the Eagles. Also, Herbig was kickin some *** in NY - well, on running plays anyway.
 
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Steeltime said:
Seumalu, Cole, Daniels and Warren are going to blow up interior blitzes.
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This is the part that i disagree with you about.

Now i'm not sayin Daniels isn't any good. He was good. And i know Seumalo can clamp down.
But what I'm saying is that without a Dot-like player inside, defenses pin their ears back and overwhelm Cole and Daniels. JMO, but a free blitzer up the middle is the fastest way to end Kenny's career.

I do agree with you on Warren. I would say you've got a good point about Warren. He is perhaps the best blitz pick-up-man in the entire league. Truly gifted, Payton-esque. Maybe even best i've ever seen.

Also, FWIW i worry about both edges as well.
 
Perhaps the line is set? Moore, Seumalo, Cole, Daniels (Herbigass?), Okorafor

Ben said on his podcast he really likes Moore at LT, and that the Steelers seem happy with Okorafor. Made me think about it moore. I suppose there is still the potential he could be good. After all, he’s only 24. Finished just his second complete season. Wasn’t expected to come in and start as a rookie. So far has shown to be durable. Maybe?…just maybe THIS is his break our year?

We all know the Steelers have patience.
 
steelreeling said:
Now i'm not sayin Daniels isn't any good. He was good. And i know Seumalo can clamp down.
But what I'm saying is that without a Dot-like player inside, defenses pin their ears back and overwhelm Cole and Daniels. JMO, but a free blitzer up the middle is the fastest way to end Kenny's career.
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Seumalo+Cole+Daniels >>> Dotson+Cole+Daniels.

The only change is the addition of Seumalo, but he is a hellacious pass blocker. The Eagles teach their interior linemen to initiate contact on pass blocking and not give ground like the old days. The Steelers use the same blocking theory. Watch clips of Seumalo against big DT's like Javon Kinlaw of the 49ers. Ball is snapped, Seumalo gets his hands on Kinlaw, sets his base, and the two are within 2' of the LOS when Hurts throws the pass.

steelreeling said:
I do agree with you on Warren. I would say you've got a good point about Warren. He is perhaps the best blitz pick-up-man in the entire league. Truly gifted, Payton-esque. Maybe even best i've ever seen.
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I think it was the Ravens game when I saw one of their LBers come on a middle blitz and Daniels made contact, then Warren LEVELED him. Next time the LB blitzed, he tiptoed to the LOS like he was trying not to wake the baby.
 
keslerclan said:
Herbie Herbig is NOT a big dude, he is a smaller guy than all of our IOLs except Green. He is just on a donut diet and is fatter. His ONE benefit is that he is more technical than big Dot (not saying much) and was tutored by the best OL coach working the league presently at Philly.

He will be an upgrade to Dotson IF he starts but Seumalo will definitely start at one of the OG spots sooo... maybe he is our IOL back-up. The only thing that might change is if they want to move on from Mason Cole, moving Daniels to OC where he was in college and that puts Herbie in the mix at OG. If we are keeping Cole at OC, Herbie is only a better back-up than what we had...maybe, IMO. Lots of guys in this draft are better IOLs than Herbie on paper so I'm not sure what the plan is.

Yes, Herbie played his last 11 games for the Jets but he played his first 33 games with Jeff Sutherland coached OL in Philly. That was IMO, why the Jets signed him.
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Great post keslerclan, thank you.


NOT a doubt that is why the Jets signed him as well as a large part of why we signed him. I’n kind of with you on that our direction of who starts at center will help dictate what is planned for Herbig at guard position.


Salute the nation
 
I like the better depth that we have on OL. Hopefully the group can be cohesive from game 1 rather than post bye; this extra IOL should account for an injury in season with minimal loss, and should also strengthen the T spots as they both can have greater confidence.

But none of this matters if the combined unit plays poorly like they did to start last season. Maybe Mitch can invite them all down to his house for a blocking week?
 
steelreeling said:
If you are basing that opinion on more durability - then i get where you are coming from. Herbig has had so many injury problems.

Also Re Herbig, as it was mentioned Herbig was indeed on Jets i admit, but it was also mentioned that he cut his teeth learning from the best OL coach in the league on the Eagles. Also, Herbig was kickin some *** in NY - well, on running plays anyway.
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Durability is important in Daniels' case, but I just think he's a better player. He earned a starting job in the NFL less than halfway through his rookie season, and he's started ever since, on two different teams. Herbig only started five games in his third year with the Eagles in 2021, then they put him on waivers the following offseason.

At any rate, I'd be surprised if the Steelers move Daniels around or sit Mason Cole down and replace either with a guy who was on the waiver wire less than a year ago. I believe that they were fairly happy with Daniels and Cole at the end of last season, and deservedly so.
 
Confluence said:
I like the better depth that we have on OL. Hopefully the group can be cohesive from game 1 rather than post bye; this extra IOL should account for an injury in season with minimal loss, and should also strengthen the T spots as they both can have greater confidence.

But none of this matters if the combined unit plays poorly like they did to start last season. Maybe Mitch can invite them all down to his house for a blocking week?
Click to expand...

I think Mitch would gain more credibility with the OL if he would feed them Steak and BACON, cooked properly !!!!


Salute the nation
 
Drink IRON City said:
I think Mitch would gain more credibility with the OL if he would feed them Steak and BACON, cooked properly !!!!


Salute the nation
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Oh the bacon would be enough. Just can't go wrong with good bacon.
 
topseed said:
I think so because Daniels has started every game in which he's played since week 7 of his rookie season in 2018. He was solid for the Steelers last season, got better as the year went on, and didn't allow a sack in 1160 snaps. Herbig wasn't even on the Eagles' offensive line last year, and he only started 5 games for them in 2021 -- so I don't know how or why you're relating Herbig to their dominance.
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ADD in that Danials was healthy all season.


Salute the nation
 
steelreeling said:
Which is why i hated this signing - it didn't f*ckin fit. Not with all the trap, gadget and pull plays that Canada called in his inside-zone read running offense.
Now the Steelers have signed Seumalo. Now Herbig makes some sense.

Green is likely gone. Cole, Chuks & Dot are likely backups after camp. Daniels will most likely be the starter at center. The offensive line will likely become much more thick in the ***.
The Steelers look as if they are ready to punch the rock straight down the defense's throat. Clearly, they are gonna protect Pickett from receiving big whollaping hits.

Look for a mauler Right Tackle in the first 2 rounds/ rest of FA. If the O commits to this: 1. Pickens will be pii... issed & 2. it could get real interesting and in a big way for Muth.
Click to expand...

I can just see where this all going. Return of the Big Uglies. They're gonna try an get this flyer on Clark to take hold. Moore needs a major step forward.

Steelers O is going back to smashmouth. Kenny will live after all.

What he does best:​


• Freakish build and athletic traits. Looks the part. His arm length and hand size are in the 99th percentile for the position
• Strong lower half and anchor. Only yielded a handful of pressures via the bull rush all season long.


Biggest concerns:​


• His pass protection fundamentals are non-existent. Crosses his feet, has his hands down at his sides, and stays extremely flat towards the line of scrimmage
• Change of direction ability is severely limited. Had absolutely no answer to any sort of speed rusher. Inside counters beat him all day. Allowed eight pressures to Arden Key of LSU in Texas Tech’s bowl gam
• Couldn’t find linebackers in space. Once he gets out on the run, he struggles to throttle down
• Little control over his long arms. His initial punch is all over the map
 
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