Steelers select Dri Archer in Round 3

[Idioteque]

And every time a LEGITIMATE comparison is brought forward, you reject it based on "one inch taller" or "played at a different college." Your argument is truly that no one with Dri Archer's social security number has ever succeeded in the NFL.

Which comparisons were brought up? McCluster wasn't a fumble/injury machine like Archer, and he played more offense in college than Archer, so that doesn't work.

Who else?

 

[Idioteque]

I'll type it here, I was wrong, Ricardo was a ******* train wreck in the nfl, he totally and completely sucked. We shall use that measuring stick for your list of 10, I'm comfortable with that. Ricardo was picked up by several teams from 2004-2009 across the nfl, so, any players who play for NFL teams for less time that that, on your list, are complete train wrecks. Fair enough. I think for this specific argument, I like your definition of bust a lot more than mine.

Joe

Well, according to you, Jared Abbrederis' torn ACL is PROOF that Archer is a better player. So I actually give less of a **** about your football "opinions" - or your Google Doc - then I did five minutes ago.

 

[t-man]

Sorry, not sure where the cleve entry came from. My mistake. Here, below.

2004 22 PIT KR 21 16 0 1 13 0 13 13.0 26 566 0 48 21.8 579 0
2005 23 PIT 21 14 0 22 473 0 63 21.5 473 1
2006 24 PIT 21 3 0 4 6 0 3 1.5 1 26 0 26 26.0 32 0
2007 25 PIT 21 3 0 0 0
2008 26 KAN db 30 6 1 0 1
2009 27 KAN 23 1 0 0 0

From Pro football reference. He collected the paychecks from 2004 to 2009. Again, I wouldn't re-pick the guy, but he was no Sweed.

Joe

 

[t-man]

I was a member here at that time too, and I am certain I'd remember if we had a 2903 post page about our dear friend Ricardo. We did not.

Maybe we were just better at waiting then, as a matter of fact, SEVERAL posters back in those days were hammerd, forcefully into the dirt, for making prognostications about players before they ever took a snap. For some reason, we considered that to be premature, and stupid.

Now, as the season went on, and you would see the implosion of certain guys, I remember Eli being a favorite one to watch, we would start hammering on them, but for the most part, they had to at least prove they sucked. We might HOPE beyond hope that Tim Couch was going to suck like a ************* hoover, but you just never know.

Joe

 

[skialta]

not for nothing, but it really seems like you guys are arguing out of force of habit at this point.
let the **** play out already. he's already proven to have more of an impact than we expected to this point, and is adding a dimension that we didn't have prior to his arrival.
enough already

 

[t-man]

Well, according to you, Jared Abbrederis' torn ACL is PROOF that Archer is a better player. So I actually give less of a **** about your football "opinions" - or your Google Doc - then I did five minutes ago.

When Spence blew his knee out a few years back, that was because he was "too small" to play. Heck, even back earlier in this thread, that's the same reason LSH blew his knee out last year "too small". I guess it's all in if the guy is someone ya put on your little list or not.

Joe

 

[Idioteque]

Sorry, not sure where the cleve entry came from. My mistake. Here, below.

He was brought into Browns camp that year, but apparently didn't dress for any games.

2004 22 PIT KR 21 16 0 1 13 0 13 13.0 26 566 0 48 21.8 579 0
2005 23 PIT 21 14 0 22 473 0 63 21.5 473 1
2006 24 PIT 21 3 0 4 6 0 3 1.5 1 26 0 26 26.0 32 0
2007 25 PIT 21 3 0 0 0
2008 26 KAN db 30 6 1 0 1
2009 27 KAN 23 1 0 0 0

From Pro football reference. He collected the paychecks from 2004 to 2009. Again, I wouldn't re-pick the guy, but he was no Sweed.

Joe[/QUOTE]

That's because Sweed was aw-ful. Limas Sweed isn't The Measuring Stick for a bust. If you were taken in the second round and never ever became a contributor, you were a bust.

 

[SteelerAl]

Which comparisons were brought up? McCluster wasn't a fumble/injury machine like Archer, and he played more offense in college than Archer, so that doesn't work.

Who else?

No, you can play this game by yourself. I'm sure everyone else who has been paying attention realizes that you will just parrot back "player [x] wasn't an injury/fumbling machine" or "player [y] didn't have dreadlocks" no matter what comparison is put forth.

 

[Idioteque]

When Spence blew his knee out a few years back, that was because he was "too small" to play. Heck, even back earlier in this thread, that's the same reason LSH blew his knee out last year "too small". I guess it's all in if the guy is someone ya put on your little list or not.

Joe

Did I say Spence was "too small"? Or LSH? Why do you keep putting other people's words into my mouth? It's like the Bryant in the third bullshit. How can I defend my stance if EVERY statement made by EVERY poster gets attributed to me?

A torn ACL has nothing to do with size or injury-proneness.

 

[Idioteque]

I was a member here at that time too, and I am certain I'd remember if we had a 2903 post page about our dear friend Ricardo. We did not.

Maybe we were just better at waiting then, as a matter of fact, SEVERAL posters back in those days were hammerd, forcefully into the dirt, for making prognostications about players before they ever took a snap. For some reason, we considered that to be premature, and stupid.

Now, as the season went on, and you would see the implosion of certain guys, I remember Eli being a favorite one to watch, we would start hammering on them, but for the most part, they had to at least prove they sucked. We might HOPE beyond hope that Tim Couch was going to suck like a ************* hoover, but you just never know.

Joe

That's my entire goddamn point. Nobody, not even a front office, is clairvoyant. Nobody. When they pick a guy, it's because his profile suggests he will pan out. When they pass on a guy, it's because his profile suggests he won't.

You seem to think I'm twisting words and hedging my bets when I say "I can't see the future, so I don't know" when in actuality, I'm stating that nobody is a ******* psychic. When I rip Archer's chances at NFL success, I'm stating (read the above paragraph) that his profile suggests he won't pan out.

 

[t-man]

He was brought into Browns camp that year, but apparently didn't dress for any games.

2004 22 PIT KR 21 16 0 1 13 0 13 13.0 26 566 0 48 21.8 579 0
2005 23 PIT 21 14 0 22 473 0 63 21.5 473 1
2006 24 PIT 21 3 0 4 6 0 3 1.5 1 26 0 26 26.0 32 0
2007 25 PIT 21 3 0 0 0
2008 26 KAN db 30 6 1 0 1
2009 27 KAN 23 1 0 0 0



Joe

That's because Sweed was aw-ful. Limas Sweed isn't The Measuring Stick for a bust. If you were taken in the second round and never ever became a contributor, you were a bust.[/QUOTE]


Holy ****, we agree on something. Sweed was ******* aw-ful. The funny part is, Sweed was ******* perfect. Right size, right speed, right hands, right college history. Right ******* everything. Everyone here agreed. There was no 2900 page thread about people we should have taken BEFORE him, ****, we had several threads saying we were LUCKY he dropped to the second round. As a matter of fact, I'm just about positive there wasn't ONE ******* post here disagreeing with that evaluation.

How much is all that worth today?

And you wonder why I frown on a pre-judging this ****, and get a little pissy when people start giving me size, college, blah blah blah reasons for his undoubted nfl success. ****, Hines ward AND Antonio Brown Don't look as good on paper as Sweed did, but that's paper that doesn't count their NFL careers.

Joe

 

[Idioteque]

No, you can play this game by yourself. I'm sure everyone else who has been paying attention realizes that you will just parrot back "player [x] wasn't an injury/fumbling machine" or "player [y] didn't have dreadlocks" no matter what comparison is put forth.

So injuries and fumbles are the same as having dreadlocks or the other stupid strawmen you've brought up? Fumbles and injuries are not important factors in evaluating a RB/WR/KR? Sheesh.

I'm just asking for one player who has succeeded with all of Archer's red flags. Just admit you don't have one and move on.

 

[t-man]

That's my entire goddamn point. Nobody, not even a front office, is clairvoyant. Nobody. When they pick a guy, it's because his profile suggests he will pan out. When they pass on a guy, it's because his profile suggests he won't.

You seem to think I'm twisting words and hedging my bets when I say "I can't see the future, so I don't know" when in actuality, I'm stating that nobody is a ******* psychic. When I rip Archer's chances at NFL success, I'm stating (read the above paragraph) that his profile suggests he won't pan out.

Actually, the front office looks at a lot more than that, they have this room full of scouts, that go to workouts, and games we never see. They analyze the system we are planning to run, and if the particular player would fit in that system. Yes, even with all that, they miss, and yes, even without all that, sometimes people here get it right. Again, that highlights how DUMB it is to come out and say, without a doubt, there will be 10 people we will wish we'd taken instead of him.

Joe

 

[t-man]

Ok, we're now past getting cyclical. I'm going to cease posting in this particular thread till after the start of the regular season. I'll even refrain from checking the "List of the anointed" ones till the season starts.

Joe

 

[Idioteque]

Holy ****, we agree on something. Sweed was ******* aw-ful. The funny part is, Sweed was ******* perfect. Right size, right speed, right hands, right college history. Right ******* everything. Everyone here agreed. There was no 2900 page thread about people we should have taken BEFORE him, ****, we had several threads saying we were LUCKY he dropped to the second round. As a matter of fact, I'm just about positive there wasn't ONE ******* post here disagreeing with that evaluation.

How much is all that worth today?

And you wonder why I frown on a pre-judging this ****, and get a little pissy when people start giving me size, college, blah blah blah reasons for his undoubted nfl success. ****, Hines ward AND Antonio Brown Don't look as good on paper as Sweed did, but that's paper that doesn't count their NFL careers.

Joe

They were drafted appropriately. Hines had NFL size and a full college resume. Brown was a 6th who was drafted to return kicks.

You're absolutely correct that drafting based on a player's college profile is not foolproof. Every few years, you will miss out on a Kelvin Beachum or whiff on a Limas Sweed. But no draft strategy is 100% perfect, and it's a lot more accurate than drafting based on 40 times. Limas Sweed's profile becoming NFL-awful is an incredibly rare happenstance compared to Dri Archer's profile becoming good.

 

[FordFairLane]

I love how the argument of comparisons can still only be to average or below average NFL players. So far he's looked more like Spoles than Rainey but god forbid you mention that because Sproles weighs more blah blah.

 

[Idioteque]

Actually, the front office looks at a lot more than that, they have this room full of scouts, that go to workouts, and games we never see. They analyze the system we are planning to run, and if the particular player would fit in that system. Yes, even with all that, they miss, and yes, even without all that, sometimes people here get it right. Again, that highlights how DUMB it is to come out and say, without a doubt, there will be 10 people we will wish we'd taken instead of him.

Joe

Did I say that "without a doubt"? Or did I say, "I think there will be 10 guys we'd rather have"? I'm honestly not sure and I'm not digging back 7,000 pages to find out.

 

[JupiterBnG]

You'll have that when you spend a few thousand ******* pages telling people how stupid they are for saying such brazen things like "let's wait till he takes a ******* snap before we say he can't return a punt".

Joe

I for one sleep more soundly at night knowing that he's made one fair catch and two punt return attempts for a total of 4 yards.

 

[Idioteque]

I love how the argument of comparisons can still only be to average or below average NFL players. So far he's looked more like Spoles than Rainey but god forbid you mention that because Sproles weighs more blah blah.

And because Sproles was a full-time player throughout college, and didn't get injured three times in his final year of college, and probably didn't fumble 1/8 as often as Archer did.

But you're right. Experience, durability, and fumbling are minor points in evaluating a RB or WR or KR. 40 time 40 time 40 time 40 time!!!!!!

 

[Superman]

would Dante Hall count as similar size?
little heavier, same height
Texas A&M vs Kent State

 

[bermudasteel]

not for nothing, but it really seems like you guys are arguing out of force of habit at this point.
let the **** play out already. he's already proven to have more of an impact than we expected to this point, and is adding a dimension that we didn't have prior to his arrival.
enough already

But, if they stop, we won't know the limit of pages in one thread on a message board...

 

[bermudasteel]

not for nothing, but it really seems like you guys are arguing out of force of habit at this point.
let the **** play out already. he's already proven to have more of an impact than we expected to this point, and is adding a dimension that we didn't have prior to his arrival.
enough already

But, if they stop, we won't know the limit of pages in one thread on a message board...

 

[FordFairLane]

And because Sproles was a full-time player throughout college, and didn't get injured three times in his final year of college, and probably didn't fumble 1/8 as often as Archer did.

But you're right. Experience, durability, and fumbling are minor points in evaluating a RB or WR or KR. 40 time 40 time 40 time 40 time!!!!!!

I don't care about college I care about what is doing now as a professional. So far in his little bit of play he has looked electric and it looks like he is doing what the offense wants him to. Take advantage when he gets into space and make the defense take note when he is on the field to help his teammates get open. But yeah, tell me about college again lmfao!!

 

[Idioteque]

I don't care about college I care about what is doing now as a professional. So far in his little bit of play he has looked electric and it looks like he is doing what the offense wants him to. Take advantage when he gets into space and make the defense take note when he is on the field to help his teammates get open. But yeah, tell me about college again lmfao!!

College was kinda all we had to go on when this thread started lmfao!!

But now that he has 4 preseason touches under his belt, we can close the book and sculpt that HOF bust.

 

[Wingman]

But, if they stop, we won't know the limit of pages in one thread on a message board...

It's like how many licks does it take to get to the tootsie roll center of a tootsie pop, nobody knows.