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Steelers select Dri Archer in Round 3

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Idioteque said:
Then I'm not sure what to tell you. Every shred of common sense screams "bust" except for his 40 time.
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Is McCluster a bust? Is there SOME chance Archer = McCluster?

It's the guarantees that Archer will bust that drive me nuts. Not opinions that he will likely be a bust.
 
Idioteque said:
I read it numerous times; I just don't care because it's stupid.
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Please explain how its stupid i would love to hear it. This should be good.
 
SteelerAl said:
Is McCluster a bust? Is there SOME chance Archer = McCluster?

It's the guarantees that Archer will bust that drive me nuts. Not opinions that he will likely be a bust.
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I don't recall guaranteeing anything.

I don't feel McCluster has come close to returning his early second-round investment. So yes, I'd call him a bust. He was picked before Gronkowski, T.J. Ward, and Lamarr Houston, much better players at much more important positions. That's what burns me up. I'm not going to look back in five years and say, "Archer was picked in the third round, but his production is more in line with a fifth-rounder. **** him!" But I think there will be at least 10 guys we passed on for Archer who will outperform that and would have helped us more.
 
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Idioteque said:
Clowney is more than a 40 time in pads.
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Clowney is a physical specimen who was drafted #1 overall. He's not a great football player by any means. I watched game after game of him getting man handled by players who were either not going to get drafted or not drafted very high. Hell, our own Wesley Johnson made him his *****. But that said Clowney has a rare athletcism that the Texans could not overlook with their first pick. We saw that to a lesser extent on Archer and pulled the trigger #97 overall.
 
So the ability to make people miss to go along with his speed is not a good asset? Gotcha. The ability to move that fast and cut on a dime and not lose speed is not an asset? Gotcha. The ability to get to top speed quickly is not an asset? Gotcha.
 
antdrewjosh said:
So the ability to make people miss to go along with his speed is not a good asset? Gotcha. The ability to move that fast and cut on a dime and not lose speed is not an asset? Gotcha. The ability to get to top speed quickly is not an asset? Gotcha.
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Sure, if you're playing flag football. But in the non-Madden game, you have to (a) be on the field, (b) hold onto the ball, and (c) earn snaps as part of an NFL offense before your speed and agility matter much at all.

You're looking at Archer and assuming every play will be "Here's the ball, here's 20 yards of wide open space, run to the end zone." If that were all an NFL player needed, more guys with Archer's profile would succeed. In reality, few if any of them do.
 
SteelerAl said:
That's been true of virtually every guy who was ever drafted #97...
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Yes, and that would make them less-than-optimal picks as well.

Does that mean then that the pick is valueless?
 
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Idioteque said:
Yep. More "not a real fan" bullshit. From the guy who got banned from a Steeler board for whining about Jarvis Jones and Tomlin. Why do you hope they fail?

I'm a Kansas State fan who has followed Sproles' career with interest. He's a thickly built guy, probably close to 190 who was a workhorse in college. He rarely misses a game. He's been counted on to carry the load in the NFL from time to time. Archer is no Darren Sproles, bud. If you're expecting Sproles or Brian effing Westbrook, then I don't know what to say. I think McCluster is his upside, and even he's not worth a third, especially in the midst of rebuilding a ****** roster.
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I at least gave JJ an entire season before I criticized him. I stated I wouldn't have taken him #17 and I would have took Patterson and that was it. I cheered and routed for him to bust out every game and still will. But his rookie season was subpar and that is factual. I hope he can turn it up this year but as of now idk if he can. Archer hasn't even played a snap and you are calling him a bust. At least watch a ******* preseason game before you make up your mind!

That's the great thing about rookies is you don't know. He could be Rainey, he could be Hester, he could be McCluster, he could be Sproles, and yes he even could be Westbrook. I don't know and you don't know. I do understand why the Steelers took him in the third. And calling out a third round pick as a bust is just asinine. Dude 75% of them WILL be busts. That's like saying Blanchflower will be a bust it's very much possible so quit acting like nostradamus.
 
TMC said:
McCluster is a valid comparison. In fact, he may be one of the only under 180 pound RB/WR/specialists that compare well. He is also one of the only players that size to get a second contract in the NFL and aside from one fair season, he really has not done much. If that is the high water mark for a 3rd round pick, so be it.

And, are we really so hot to get a specialist that we are pimping Devon Hester? Sure, he returns kicks. The Steelers dumped guys like Stefan Logan because ALL he could do is return kicks. If that is his only value, pretty much could have drafted a punter in the 3rd....but that would have likely pissed people off.
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McCluster was drafted in the 2nd round, pick 36 for what it's worth.
 
FordFairLane said:
I at least gave JJ an entire season before I criticized him. I stated I wouldn't have taken him #17 and I would have took Patterson and that was it. I cheered and routed for him to bust out every game and still will. But his rookie season was subpar and that is factual. I hope he can turn it up this year but as of now idk if he can. Archer hasn't even played a snap and you are calling him a bust. At least watch a ******* preseason game before you make up your mind!

That's the great thing about rookies is you don't know. He could be Rainey, he could be Hester, he could be McCluster, he could be Sproles, and yes he even could be Westbrook. I don't know and you don't know. I do understand why the Steelers took him in the third. And calling out a third round pick as a bust is just asinine. Dude 75% of them WILL be busts. That's like saying Blanchflower will be a bust it's very much possible so quit acting like nostradamus.
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Indeed, he could. Blanchflower could become Jimmy Graham. But his skillset indicates that he won't, so I'm not going to ignore all history and common sense and assume he will.
 
Im not assuming anything. Smh. He has to learn how to be a good enough weapon in the slot. He has to prove he can return punts. He has to prove he can withstand NFL punishment. He has alot to prove. But he brings things to the table. Getting a big hit on him isnt easy. He's not starting from ground zero as far as Slot WR and PR.
 
Idioteque said:
Does that mean then that the pick is valueless?
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I tried to delete that post because that was a fairly dumb point I was making. Anyway, give me your list of 10...it'll be fun to see how they develop. As I've said repeatedly, I would have taken Ellington and Bryant before Archer and perhaps the big CB from Lindenwood.
 
Why must it be said AGAIN???

Archer was selected as a COMPENSATORY PICK at the end of the third round. Let's break down the word "compensatory". Without making this an English lesson - the word simply means "counterbalance or make up for (a loss)".

This was a pick we didn't originally have and it is now in the history books. Until the kid gets on the field, and I pray that he proves the naysayers wrong, he still a pick that we had the luxury of ascertaining because of the loss of Wallace.
 
antdrewjosh said:
Im not assuming anything. Smh. He has to learn how to be a good enough weapon in the slot. He has to prove he can return punts. He has to prove he can withstand NFL punishment. He has alot to prove. But he brings things to the table. Getting a big hit on him isnt easy. He's not starting from ground zero as far as Slot WR and PR.
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Of course he brings things to the table. He brings rare speed and good, not special, short-area quickness. He brings great KO return ability (though I doubt his long-term NFL success there because of his injury and fumble concerns). But why should I disregard all of the many negatives he brings to the table? Especially when the things at which he suffers are 100x more predicative of NFL success than speed and quickness?
 
JupiterBnG said:
"1075 yards" is kind of a fiction, though. Considering most of those kicks would be fielded in our end zone, the difference between him averaging 25 yards per return (assuming he returned every one) and just taking a knee is only about 215 yards difference in field position, assuming you measure his 25 yards from the goal line, and not where he starts in the end zone (i.e. he averages getting to the 25 yard line).
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Saying he only averages 25 per KR is saying he will average about 2 less than Sanders... so not giving him huge numbers on any spectrum.
 
Where I come from...a fumble is a fumble, regardless of where or why or how it happened. The top 3 fumblers in NFL history (not QBs) are Franco, Tony and Walter. (not necessarily by %/touch though)

BTW, when did Archer become a part-time player? Just because he didn't catch/run the ball doesn't mean he wasn't on the field does it? I hated the pick and thought we should have gone CB, CB, WR with the first 3 but give the kid some credit. If some don't think the MAC is 'real', try tellin' that to Deebo or Lambert.
 
Im not saying disregard them. Im not. Im saying dont try and make them bigger then they are to try and prove your point.
 
Idioteque said:
I don't recall guaranteeing anything.

I don't feel McCluster has come close to returning his early second-round investment. So yes, I'd call him a bust. He was picked before Gronkowski, T.J. Ward, and Lamarr Houston, much better players at much more important positions. That's what burns me up. I'm not going to look back in five years and say, "Archer was picked in the third round, but his production is more in line with a fifth-rounder. **** him!" But I think there will be at least 10 guys we passed on for Archer who will outperform that and would have helped us more.
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You can say that about every player every year that you draft, with very few exceptions.
 
keslerclan said:
Where I come from...a fumble is a fumble, regardless of where or why or how it happened. The top 3 fumblers in NFL history (not QBs) are Franco, Tony and Walter. (not necessarily by %/touch though)

BTW, when did Archer become a part-time player? Just because he didn't catch/run the ball doesn't mean he wasn't on the field does it? I hated the pick and thought we should have gone CB, CB, WR with the first 3 but give the kid some credit. If some don't think the MAC is 'real', try tellin' that to Deebo or Lambert.
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Exactly...
 
Idioteque said:
I don't recall guaranteeing anything.

I don't feel McCluster has come close to returning his early second-round investment. So yes, I'd call him a bust. He was picked before Gronkowski, T.J. Ward, and Lamarr Houston, much better players at much more important positions. That's what burns me up. I'm not going to look back in five years and say, "Archer was picked in the third round, but his production is more in line with a fifth-rounder. **** him!" But I think there will be at least 10 guys we passed on for Archer who will outperform that and would have helped us more.
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He was also picked after Brian Price, Jahvid Best, Tim Tebow, and Rolando McClain... so what's your point?
 
Idioteque said:
Indeed, he could. Blanchflower could become Jimmy Graham. But his skillset indicates that he won't, so I'm not going to ignore all history and common sense and assume he will.
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Then just leave it at that. You don't like the pick and would rather have picked up Bryant our 4th round pick in the 3rd.
 
SteelerAl said:
I tried to delete that post because that was a fairly dumb point I was making. Anyway, give me your list of 10...it'll be fun to see how they develop. As I've said repeatedly, I would have taken Ellington and Bryant before Archer and perhaps the big CB from Lindenwood.
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No, your point has some validity. I get it. A third-rounder isn't quite as valuable as some think it is; it doesn't doom our roster or our draft or anything like that. I'm not pounding nails into my scrotum and buying Ravens hats or anything. I just think that, when the smoke clears, we're going to have an oft-injured, part-time kick returner to show for that pick, instead of a quality player to fill one of our many holes.

I'm not going to claim with any kind of certainty which specific players will be be better. But I'm confident that quite a few of them will outperform Archer, perhaps by a mile if Archer follows the course that history suggests he will. I was clamoring hard for Ellington as well. Carl Bradford, Nevin Lawson, Justin Ellis, and DaQuan Jones all went a few picks later and have bright futures IMO. And some guys I loved at that spot ended up going late or undrafted - Rashaad Reynolds, Antonio Richardson, Ryan Carrethers. Had I been running the team, it appears I would have reached for one of them there. But I'm not interested in picking a guy in the exact round I think he should have been picked.
 
keslerclan said:
Where I come from...a fumble is a fumble, regardless of where or why or how it happened. The top 3 fumblers in NFL history (not QBs) are Franco, Tony and Walter. (not necessarily by %/touch though)

BTW, when did Archer become a part-time player? Just because he didn't catch/run the ball doesn't mean he wasn't on the field does it? I hated the pick and thought we should have gone CB, CB, WR with the first 3 but give the kid some credit. If some don't think the MAC is 'real', try tellin' that to Deebo or Lambert.
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And what I'm saying is that I doubt the reliability of those stats. Stat-tracking changes tremendously from one generation to the next. By those numbers, Franco fumbled once every two games he played. No RB in the NFL today fumbles anywhere near that often, so I seriously doubt the two are congruent.

I'm not interested in comparing Archer to RBs of generations that didn't keep accurate numbers. Or past generations in general. Let's look at today's NFL. Nowadays, players get benched and/or cut for fumbling less often than Archer. Belichick benches Stevan Ridley for fumbling 1-3 times per season, and he fumbles way, way less often than Archer. Sounds like a fumbling problem to me.
 
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