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Tariffs

Confluence said:
"National Economic Council Director Kevin Hassett acknowledged the growing alarm on Monday, telling reporters at the White House, "Rare earths are a part of lots of the economy. The rare earth limits are being studied very carefully, and they’re concerning, and we’re thinking about all the options right now."

Not sure if this is more "blinking", but folks would have assumed that this "thinking" was done in advance because of the need for a competent strategy.

Another nugget from FOX: "The ban doesn’t apply to finished products containing rare earths, potentially undercutting Trump’s tariff strategy. U.S.-made goods that rely on imported materials could face production delays, while goods produced and manufactured in China would still be available for import."

Surely China wouldn't withhold the supply of medications because it suits their strategy.
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We are so stupid letting China basically control much of our economy. They decide to withhold medication, well, I hate to think of the repercussions.
 
BTW, have their been any new trade deals signed? I have seen two or three I think. But that is it. Are there more?
 
Sarge said:
BTW, have their been any new trade deals signed? I have seen two or three I think. But that is it. Are there more?
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No, but Flog has roughly another 21 links to provide on my Link Tariff Plan
 
Troglodyte said:
Someone’s having a bad presidency.
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he's not POTUS anymore, and from what we're learning he probably didn't even sign those EOs.
 
oneforthebus said:
Which is why we make trade deals with specific countries like the one Trump made with Mexico and Canada that he bragged was the greatest deal ever made til he turned around and said they were ripping us off :ROFLMAO:
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You do realize that people sign deals while never really intending to honor them, right? (Both sides can be guilty of this)

You can also believe that you are getting screwed on a deal, then work towards a new one while everyone (on both sides) is doing everything in their power to see that you don’t succeed. You then sign said new deal which may be only slightly better than the previous deal because you realize that is the best you can get. Then the next time you get the chance you try to get a better deal because you still feel like you are getting screwed. Only this time you don’t include people who want to derail your deal, because you learned your lesson the first time.
 
MT~Forged said:
You do realize that people sign deals while never really intending to honor them, right? (Both sides can be guilty of this)

You can also believe that you are getting screwed on a deal, then work towards a new one while everyone (on both sides) is doing everything in their power to see that you don’t succeed. You then sign said new deal which may be only slightly better than the previous deal because you realize that is the best you can get. Then the next time you get the chance you try to get a better deal because you still feel like you are getting screwed. Only this time you don’t include people who want to derail your deal, because you learned your lesson the first time.
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Since 1965 and the first Auto Pact? lol.
60 years, 4 Free Trade agreements, LBJ, Reagan, Bush and Trump all dominated by the Canadians.....or maybe something else happened.
 
MT~Forged said:
We get closer every year by following the same policies that have been in place for decades.
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I doubt that, but your pessimism is noted.
MT~Forged said:
This may be true, but the reverse is not. China bans imports of American products to protect their domestic sales. These are the type of barriers that Trump is trying to address to make things actually fair.
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A billion people or not, China has a GDP per capita comparable to Iraq.

Expecting them to buy as much from us as we do from them is not an obtainable or even desirable goal at the present time.

The primary advantage China has is that their industries are largely state sponsored and financed.

Short of the CCP collapsing (which could actually be part of Trump's goal), China is not going to stop being a quasi-communist country. No matter how much pressure we try to apply on them.

When it comes to China, the focus should be on restricting our tech trade with them, as it is as much a matter of national security as it is economic prosperity.

It sucks for shareholders of companies like Apple and Nvidia, but tough titties.

MT~Forged said:
Trump’s tax cuts did what they were supposed to do, incentivize investment in American businesses and repatriate off shore money. The issue is that CONGRESS did NOT do anything to reduce spending.
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Unless Congress addresses entitlement costs, everything else is just picking at the fringes of the budget.

Healthcare in particular is now around 20% of GDP compared to around 5% in the early 1990s. It's not sustainable.
MT~Forged said:
What is your suggestion for a “better” tax policy?
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Higher corporate tax rates, obviously.

I know that is blasphemy from your perspective, but they were over 50% in the middle of the last century and we had a pretty strong economy in the 1950s and 60s.

The effective rates have been steadily going down since the 1980s while factories have been outsourced by the thousands.

I'm all for offering lower rates to companies that invest more in the US.

MT~Forged said:
Your implication is that he is sole intention is to use tariffs for income only. Maybe that is his plan, but it appears that he is using them as bargaining chips. If they were only for revenue, you would set them and move on. If they are bargaining chips, you pause them when you get a country to the table as a show of good faith. During negotiations you can then unpause them if you need to.
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We'll see how it plays out, but it is not really clear what Trump's aiming for here.

It's a matter of benefits vs costs.

If he simply wants other countries to drop their tariffs on US production, there is limited upside to it, as many of these countries simply don't have the means to buy much more from us than they already do, even the larger ones like China.

If he wants to bring significant amounts of capital back to the US, it will work only if he keeps the tariffs in place indefinitely, which will severely slow and disrupt the economy during the transition.

MT~Forged said:
As far as housing costs, there are many issues at play here.
1. Building trades have been vilified as poor career paths
2. Massive purchasing of housing by private equity firms to force renting
3. Reluctance to build more affordable single family homes to protect the rental markets
4. Government red tape and barriers to building homes
5. Etc
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I think the "financialization" of housing in recent decades has been the greatest issue.

Viewing shelter more as an investment than an essential durable good has created a huge conflict of interests in the economy where since the 2008 crisis, keeping inventory tight and prices up has taken priority over construction financing and affordability.

It's a pretty ominous sign when interest rates go up as much as they have in recent years while home prices continue to increase.
 
Punxsutawney said:
Higher corporate tax rates, obviously.

I know that is blasphemy from your perspective, but they were over 50% in the middle of the last century and we had a pretty strong economy in the 1950s and 60s.
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Are you kidding me? Punish the producers and take half of their EARNED profit? F right the F off with that commie bullshit.
 
IndySteel said:
Are you kidding me? Punish the producers and take half of their EARNED profit? F right the F off with that commie bullshit.
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What if companies were forced to leave tax havens like Belize, Bermuda, Ireland, Caymans, etc. and simply pay tax at home?

Rates could be lower because of the broader tax base and the smaller companies would have the same tax cost as the larger ones who can afford to "structure" their companies to avoid taxes.
 
IndySteel said:
Are you kidding me? Punish the producers and take half of their EARNED profit? F right the F off with that commie bullshit.
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That "commie bullshit" worked in the past.

Isn't the 1950s what making America great again is in reference to?

Government policies of recent decades are cited for the perceived destruction of the country, while the declining corporate tax rates during that time are given a pass. It's really amazing.

Hate to break it to you, but corporations, with their influence over Washington, are the ones screwing the country on trade and forcing US labor to be taxed more than it should be, making it less competitive in the process.

I suppose it's just easier to blame and punish poorer countries for accepting the business of US corporations, who chose to outsource to maximize return to shareholders, not because they had to in order to maintain profitability.

All these lower tax rates have done is benefit stock prices at the expense of pretty much everything else, from the federal budget to worker earnings.

How much of the corporate savings from Trump's 2018 cuts went toward paying out dividends and buying back stock, compared to investment in facilities and workers?

It's all a huge scam, and the Democrats aren't much better by pushing to raise the rates without adjusting the credits and deductions that leave the effective rates near zero for many companies.

It's just political posturing on their part.
 
Punxsutawney said:
That "commie bullshit" worked in the past.

Isn't the 1950s what making America great again is in reference to?

Government policies of recent decades are cited for the perceived destruction of the country, while the declining corporate tax rates during that time are given a pass. It's really amazing.

Hate to break it to you, but corporations, with their influence over Washington, are the ones screwing the country on trade and forcing US labor to be taxed more than it should be, making it less competitive in the process.

I suppose it's just easier to blame and punish poorer countries for accepting the business of US corporations, who chose to outsource to maximize return to shareholders, not because they had to in order to maintain profitability.

All these lower tax rates have done is benefit stock prices at the expense of pretty much everything else, from the federal budget to worker earnings.

How much of the corporate savings from Trump's 2018 cuts went toward paying out dividends and buying back stock, compared to investment in facilities and workers?

It's all a huge scam, and the Democrats aren't much better by pushing to raise the rates without adjusting the credits and deductions that leave the effective rates near zero for many companies.

It's just political posturing on their part.
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Instead of raising taxes government spending need to be gutted. We are seeing just how out of control it's been with fraud and money laundering.
 
IndySteel said:
Instead of raising taxes government spending need to be gutted. We are seeing just how out of control it's been with fraud and money laundering.
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Unless we're willing to seriously make adjustments to social security, Medicare and Medicaid while reducing our military presence around the world, everything else is just noise.

The career politicians won't touch the entitlements as it would be career suicide and they won't raise taxes to any meaningful degree for the same reasons, so the deficit and debt will just continue to swell going forward.

We've gotten away with it for a long time, but the interest payments are now approaching 20% of the budget.
 
Punxsutawney said:
Unless we're willing to seriously make adjustments to social security, Medicare and Medicaid while reducing our military presence around the world, everything else is just noise.

The career politicians won't touch the entitlements as it would be career suicide and they won't raise taxes to any meaningful degree for the same reasons, so the deficit and debt will just continue to swell going forward.

We've gotten away with it for a long time, but the interest payments are now approaching 20% of the budget.
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At some point, some of these politicians are going to have to stop worrying about their careers in government and explain to their constituents that their government failed them and as a result are going to have to fail them again in order to save the country and make a move on entitlements and defense. There is no way around it.

We know that won't happen though, as most see their job in politics as nothing more than acquiring as much wealth for themselves as possible at the expense of the American taxpayer. Keep going like we are and all that wealth will basically be worthless. We are soon going to find out who is serving this country and who isn't.
 
Punxsutawney said:
Unless we're willing to seriously make adjustments to social security, Medicare and Medicaid while reducing our military presence around the world, everything else is just noise.

The career politicians won't touch the entitlements as it would be career suicide and they won't raise taxes to any meaningful degree for the same reasons, so the deficit and debt will just continue to swell going forward.

We've gotten away with it for a long time, but the interest payments are now approaching 20% of the budget.
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Leave those alone but get rid of pretty much everything else including Obamacare and all aid to foreign countries.
 
Sarge said:
At some point, some of these politicians are going to have to stop worrying about their careers in government and explain to their constituents that their government failed them and as a result are going to have to fail them again in order to save the country and make a move on entitlements and defense. There is no way around it.

We know that won't happen though, as most see their job in politics as nothing more than acquiring as much wealth for themselves as possible at the expense of the American taxpayer. Keep going like we are and all that wealth will basically be worthless. We are soon going to find out who is serving this country and who isn't.
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Not just the constituents, but they have to answer to those business leaders who finance their campaigns as well.

It's just easier to continue to charge Uncle Sam's credit card than make tough, necessary decisions.

It will continue this way until some sort of crisis forces change, but that could still be a ways off.

Trump could potentially accelerate things if the trade war really goes south and foreigners start dumping Treasuries in response.
 
IndySteel said:
Leave those alone but get rid of pretty much everything else including Obamacare and all aid to foreign countries.
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So you don't think government should have a role in financing infrastructure, or monitoring the food we eat or the drugs we take?

Just trust pharmaceutical and food companies?

Look, corruption and government waste is an issue in every government and it shouldn't go unchecked, but I tend to think many underestimate how much of the US budget is composed of mandatory spending.

Fixing the issues will require tough decisions that politicians aren't willing to make, more due to fear of losing their seat than blatant corruption.
 
Punxsutawney said:
So you don't think government should have a role in financing infrastructure, or monitoring the food we eat or the drugs we take?

Just trust pharmaceutical and food companies?

Look, corruption and government waste is an issue in every government and it shouldn't go unchecked, but I tend to think many underestimate how much of the US budget is composed of mandatory spending.

Fixing the issues will require tough decisions that politicians aren't willing to make, more due to fear of losing their seat than blatant corruption.
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You trust them with drug safety after the covid shot? lmao. Most things can be handled at the State level.
 
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