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The Coronavirus thread

Steeler said:
I saw an hour long documentary that somebody posted on Facebook detailing the craziness in China, and how it is very plausible that this virus not only came from that lab, but very well may have been engineered as a biological weapon that accidentally got out.
This was not a conspiracy documentary, it was supported by many facts. Quite interesting.
Yeah and **** China.
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Any scientist that designs a bio-weapon that only kills 1% of those infected and predominantly the elderly and those with pre-existing conditions, would be the worst bio-weapons creator on the face of the earth.
 
ZonaBurgh said:
I think everyone gets it that this virus seems to be transmitted easily and that you're concerned for your daughters safety. I get it, my daughter is a nurse as well.
But the mortality of this virus appears to be near zero without a co-morbidity, so while those 80 employees may have tested positive, their outcomes will most likely be 100%.
Until antibody tests are done on everyone, who knows how many of us have been infected.

Are PPE's still an issue there like the union rep suggests?
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Unfortunately for some reason yet unknown the mortality rate seems to be higher among healthcare workers where they have seen deaths without other issues. More intense exposure or prolonged who knows. But it is part of the reason for the worry about overwhelming hospitals and it has not been made widely known. I have had three people reach out to us worried about Emily because of things they are hearing in the hospitals. There is a component or something else we are not being told. Italy had issues among healthcare workers as well.


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SteelerInLebanon said:
Unfortunately for some reason yet unknown the mortality rate seems to be higher among healthcare workers where they have seen deaths without other issues. More intense exposure or prolonged who knows. But it is part of the reason for the worry about overwhelming hospitals and it has not been made widely known. I have had three people reach out to us worried about Emily because of things they are hearing in the hospitals. There is a component or something else we are not being told. Italy had issues among healthcare workers as well.


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Oh and to answer your last question yes. She is not given an n95 mask even when working with her covid patients. Only when there is coughing or other risks. She is furious.


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I get everyones concern about the economy I have those concerns as well, but we have to protect our doctors and nurses while we consider our options on getting open. For whatever reason the PPE out there is not getting in the hands of those that need it. Bureaucracy at it's finest, and people want socialized medicine? **** them, look at Italy.

https://www.france24.com/en/20200409-italy-says-number-of-doctors-killed-by-coronavirus-passes-100

Italy says number of doctors killed by coronavirus passes 100

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Issued on: 09/04/2020 - 16:09
Modified: 09/04/2020 - 16:09

Medical staff take care of a patient infected by the coronavirus at the Papa Giovanni XXIII hospital in Bergamo, on April 3, 2020.
Medical staff take care of a patient infected by the coronavirus at the Papa Giovanni XXIII hospital in Bergamo, on April 3, 2020. © Piero Cruciatti, AFP
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FRANCE 24
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One hundred Italian doctors have died of the novel coronavirus since the pandemic reached the country in February, Italy's main doctors' association said on Thursday, with analysts estimating that 10 percent of those infected in Italy work in healthcare.

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"The number of doctors who have died because of Covid-19 is 100 — perhaps even 101 at the moment, unfortunately," a spokesperson for the association, known as the FNOMCeO, told AFP.

The toll includes retired doctors the government began calling in a month ago to help fight a coronavirus that has officially claimed a world-topping 17,669 lives in Italy.

"We can longer allow our doctors, our health workers, to be sent to fight without any protection against the virus," the association's president Filippo Anelli said on its website.

"It is an unfair fight," he added.



Italian media reports estimate that 30 nurses and nursing assistance have also died of Covid-19.


According to Rome's ISS public health institute, around 10 percent of those infected with the novel coronavirus in Italy work in health care.

Hard-hit Italy was the first European country to shut down almost all business activity on March 12 because of the virus.

The closures and accompanying containment measures have helped stem the spread of a disease that has officially claimed 17,669 lives across the country since February, the world's highest toll.

The Italian government is now weighing how and when to ease social distancing measures that have so far been extended until April 13.

(FRANCE 24 with AFP)
 
Steeler Pride said:
Any scientist that designs a bio-weapon that only kills 1% of those infected and predominantly the elderly and those with pre-existing conditions, would be the worst bio-weapons creator on the face of the earth.
Click to expand...

Not if the purpose was to crash an economy or to get rid of people who would be a drain on a socialist health system. Then it's perfect.
 
Must Read Letter From Italy

I received this "letter" in my e-mail. Naturally I can't vet it or post a source. Maybe JonBoy can shed some lite on the validity ?
Sad story if it's true.

The author of this letter grew up in central Pennsylvania but now lives with his family in Italy. He is well known in Italy as an author of stories and novels. It appears that many of Italy’s businesses have been taken over by the Communist Chinese regime and this is one of the principle reasons they have been hit so hard by the Covid-19.

A Letter from Italy

By Giacomino Nicolazzo

March 24, 2020

Montecalvo, Lombardy, Italy . As I sit here in my involuntary isolation, it was just reported that overnight 743 more people died and 5.249 new cases have been reported. This brings the total cases of infection to 69,176 and the body count to 6,820. We take relief in knowing that 8,326 people have recovered so far. (Numbers as of 3/24, 8:30pm in Italy.)

Most towns here in Italy, from the upper reaches of the Alps to the ancient shores of Sicilia and Sardenia, while not deserted, are closer to being ghost towns than the bustling centers of tourism, business and daily life they were just a few weeks ago.

Stores and shops have been shuttered. Restaurants and coffee shops no longer serve customers. Schools, universities, sporting arenas.. even our museums and theaters.. all closed. Even the Vatican City has closed its gates and armed patrols monitor the 20 foot tall walls that protect it!

Streets and roads are now empty for as far as the eye can see. Normally they would be filled with crazed Italian drivers in tiny cars and scooters (the ones that sound like demonic insects) darting here and there, reaching the limits of centrifugal force on our roundabouts. In the piazze of our towns and cities, there are now officially more pigeons than people.

Many of us know someone who has been infected and recovered. Some of us know someone who did not recover.. now they are dead. But everyone knows someone who has been affected by this microscopic monster in one way or another.

Sixty million of us are in lockdown.. it is like a war zone here. We are being held prisoner in our own homes by an unseen enemy that sneaked in unnoticed.. by most of us. As you will read in just a few more minutes, there were those who knew something like this was coming.. or at least they should have.

So who is to blame? With all this craziness swirling like a whirlpool at our feet, I just had to find the blame answer. And so I have spent my free time (of which I have a lot in these days) digging and researching. I was literally shocked to discover how this has come to be.

I am not going to bore you with talk of Patient '0' who spread it to Patient '1' and how mathematics efficiently explains the rapid expansion of infection. No.. I am going to tell you how (as I see it) the virus came to Italy.

It has everything to do with communists . Allow me to explain.

Beginning in about 2014, Matteo Renzi, the imbecile ex-mayor of Firenze (Florence) acting as the leader of the Partito Democratico (synonymous with the Italian Communist party), somehow managed to get himself elected as Italy's Prime Minister. To give you a proper frame of reference, Matteo Renzi was so far left, he would make Barack Obama look like Barry Goldwater!

At the same time that Renzi was leading Italy into oblivion, strange things were happening in Italy's economy. Banks were failing.. but not closing. Retirement ages were being extended.. for some reason the pension funds were dwindling or disappearing. The national sales tax we call IVA (Value Added Tax) rose from 18% to 20%, then to 21% and again to 22%.

And in the midst of all this financial chicanery, the Chinese began furiously buying up Italian real estate and businesses in the North.

Now the reason I mention Renzi and the Chinese together is that strange things were also going on between the governments of Italy and China. A blind eye was being turned to the way the Chinese were buying businesses in the financial, telecommunication, industrial and fashion sectors of Italy's economy, all of which take place in Milano.

To be brief.. China was getting away with purchases and acquisitions in violation of Italian law and EU Trade Agreements with the US and the UK .. and no one in either of those countries (not Obama in the US or Cameron in the UK) said a thing in their country's defense. As a matter of fact, much of it was hidden from the public in all three countries.

In 2014, China infused the Italian economy with 5 billion through purchases of companies costing less than 100 million each. By the time Renzi left office (in disgrace) in 2016, Chinese acquisitions had exceeded 52 billion. When the dust settled, China owned more than 300 companies.. representing 27% of the major Italian corporations.

The Bank of China now owns five major banks in Italy.. all of which had been secretly (and illegally) propped up by Renzi using pilfered pension funds! Soon after, the China Milano Equity Exchange was opened and much of Italy's wealth was being funneled back to the Chinese mainland.

Chinese state entities own Italy's major telecommunication corporation (Telecom) as well as its major utilities (ENI and ENEL). Upon entry into the telecommunication market, Huawei established a facility in Segrate, a suburb of Milano. It launched is first research center there and worked on the study of microwaves which has resulted in the possibly-dangerous technology we call 5G.

China also now owns controlling interest in Fiat-Chrysler, Prysmian and Terna. You will be surprised to know that when you put a set of Pirelli tires on your car, the profits are going to China. Yep.. the Chinese colossus of ChemChina, a chemical industry titan, bought that company too!

Last but not least is Ferretti yachts.. the most prestigious yacht builder in Europe. Incredibly, it is no longer owned by the Ferretti family.

But the sector in which Chinese companies invested most was Italy's profitable fashion industry. The Pinco Pallino, Miss Sixty, Sergio Tacchini, Roberta di Camerino and Mariella Burani brands have been acquired by 100%.

Designer Salvatore Ferragamo sold 16% and Caruso sold 35%. The most famous case is Krizia, purchased in 2014 by Shenzhen Marisfrolg Fashion Company, one of the leaders of high-priced, ready-to-wear fashions in Asia.

Throughout all of these purchases and acquisitions, Renzi's government afforded the Chinese unrestricted and unfettered access to Italy and its financial markets, many coming through without customs inspections.

Quite literally, tens of thousands of Chinese came in through Milano (illegally) and went back out carrying money, technology and corporate secrets.

Thousands more were allowed to enter and disappeared into shadows of Milano and other manufacturing cities of Lombardy, only to surface in illegal sewing shops, producing knock-off designer clothes and slapping 'Made In Italy' labels on them. All with the tacit approval of the Renzi government.

It was not until there was a change in the governing party in Italy that the sweatshops and the illegal entry and departure of Chinese nationals was stopped. Matteo Salvini, representing the Lega Nord party, closed Italy's ports to immigrants and systematically began disassembling the sweatshops and deporting those in Italy illegally.

But his rise to power was short-lived. Italy is a communist country.. socialism is in the national DNA. Ways were found to remove Salvini, after which the communist party, under the direction of Giuseppe Conte, reopened the ports. Immediately, thousands of unvetted, undocumented refugees from the Middle East and East Africa began pouring in again.

Access was again provided to the Chinese, under the old terms, and as a consequence thousands of Chinese, the majority from Wuhan, began arriving in Milano.

In December of last year, the first inklings of a coronavirus were noticed in Lombardy.. in the Chinese neighborhoods. There is no doubt amongst senior medical officials that the virus was brought here from China.

By the end of January 2020 cases were being reported left and right. By mid-February the virus was beginning to seriously overload the Lombardy hospitals and medical clinics. They are now in a state of collapse.

The Far-Left politicians sold out and betrayed the Italian people with open border policies and social justice programs. One of the reasons the health care system collapsed so quickly is because the Renzi government (and now continued under the Conte government) redirected funds meant to sustain the medical system, to pay for the tens of thousands of immigrants brought in to Italy against the will of the Italian people.

If you remember the horrible earthquake that decimated the villages around Amatricia, in the mountains east of Rome in 2015, you would also remember how the world responded by sending millions of dollars to help those affected.

But there is a law in Italy that prevents private donations to charitable Italian organizations . All money and donations received must be turned over to a government agency, who in turn is to appropriate the funds as needed . But that agency is corrupt just as are all the others.

Most of the money never reached a single victim in the mountains. The Renzi government redirected the vast majority of those funds to pay for the growing immigrant and refugee costs.

As the economy worsened under the burden of illegal immigration, compounded by gross government spending and incompetence, unemployment rose quickly.. especially among young people. The unemployment rate for men and women under age 35 is close to 40%.

So more money was diverted from the health care system and used to pay what is known here as guaranteed income. Whether you work or not you are paid here, especially if you belong to the PD! The government simply raises taxes on those who do work.

Let me give you a quick example of the height of insanity to which Italian taxation has risen. If you live in a building that has a balcony or balconies.. and any of those balconies cast a shadow on the ground, you must pay a public shadow tax! I will say no more!

The point I am trying to make here is that not only did the Chinese bring the virus to Italy (and the rest of the world) it was far-Left politics and policies that facilitated it.

This should hopefully be a warning to Americans that while they work to rid themselves of the China Virus, they should just as vehemently endeavor to rid their government of any politician that circumvents the Constitution and ignores the laws of the land.. plain and simple.
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Oops....too late ??....................https://freebeacon.com/democrats/ma...in-chinese-government-linked-tech-firm-stock/

XIFTQ42.png
 
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The Gov of New Jersey says that the Constitution is above his pay grade. Folks, we are inching ever forward to a civil war.

 
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Great read SteelChip. Thanks for sharing.
 
Confluence said:
my wife has been pissed at me for weeks because I called this a hoax (the pandemic political part, not the people getting sick part) and said the stats weren't right. So its been cold in the house.

Over the last couple days, she has been apologizing profusely. Here is a little gem of a link she came up with today:

https://www.nexusnewsfeed.com/artic...PJzNmnSWe22BfH0FnU6xPX_BVO5KIkvBCkdeZARBYby1Q

It seems many expert folks have not been listened to all around the globe.



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did you see this in that link?

NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden warned that the corona crisis is used for the massive and permanent expansion of global surveillance. The renowned virologist Pablo Goldschmidt spoke of a „global media terror“ and „totalitarian measures“. Leading British virologist Professor John Oxford spoke of a „media epidemic“.
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In a new interview, NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden warns that Covid19 is dangerous but temporary, while the destruction of fundamental rights is deadly and permanent.
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NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden warns that governments are using the current situation to expand the surveillance state and restrict fundamental rights. The control measures currently put in place would not be dismantled after the crisis.
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Steeler Pride said:
You think we shut down the country from a virus with a 99% survival rate? It was shut down to prevent deaths due to the perceived risk of overwhelming the medical system. Yet more waffling about how to justify the dismissal of civil liberties over a respiratory infection.
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Nonsense.

New York is now sending medical supplies to other parts of the country. They’re obviously no longer concerned about their healthcare system being overwhelmed. They also just imposed new social distancing measures requiring people to wear masks and businesses to refuse customers who do not.

If you think everything returns to normal once the deaths stop, I think you’re in for a rude awakening. The discussion is now about a possible resurgence, the lack of a vaccine and the lack of widespread testing.
 
Steeltime said:
You keep saying, "If you are correct and the virus is much more communicable than originally believed, that justified the lockdown." Maybe, maybe not. That is true IF AND ONLY IF the mortality rate is quite high, meaning 1% or more. Why?
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No. You’re making the false assumption that the mortality rate is static and independent of people being able to receive medical care. Also, if it’s so contagious that virtually everyone would contract it, 1% mortality means millions of deaths.
 
Troglodyte said:
Nonsense.

New York is now sending medical supplies to other parts of the country. They’re obviously no longer concerned about their healthcare system being overwhelmed. They also just imposed new social distancing measures requiring people to wear masks and businesses to refuse customers who do not.

If you think everything returns to normal once the deaths stop, I think you’re in for a rude awakening. The discussion is now about a possible resurgence, the lack of a vaccine and the lack of widespread testing.
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The "discussion", also called fearmongering, has been the root cause of bad decisions globally that are evolving the worst economic conditions since at least WWII.

Keep talking. Maybe Spike will be back soon to help!

Great job!!
 
Troglodyte said:
Also, if it’s so contagious that virtually everyone would contract it, 1% mortality means millions of deaths.
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https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/deaths.htm

2.8 million people die every year in this country. Where is the outrage, fear, and media hysteria over that number. Over a half million people die from heart disease. The flu infects on average 24 million people a year. If this virus is 3 times more contagious that means 75 million could be infected. If 1% is the mortality rate, that means 750k could die from this virus. If that prevented 12-18 months of additional destruction to the global economy then rip off the band-aid and lets get it on. The government cannot print enough money to subsidize all of the businesses and families that would be devastated by the impact on small businesses and large corporations alike. There are 360 million people in the US that are being severely impacted, having their constitutional rights taken away, and their civil liberties trampled on by a virus that could kill 750k, less than .2% of the population.
 
China, meanwhile has completely reopened their economy and will get a jump on the world. They'll come out of this far stronger and the rest of the world will teeter on bankruptcy.

If ever there was a scam - this was it.
 
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I confess, I am waiting for the entire country to shut down permanently in response to the alarming pre-birth medically induced death rate.

That's over 10 million. Now THAT's a pandemic.
 
wig said:
I confess, I am waiting for the entire country to shut down permanently in response to the alarming pre-birth medically induced death rate.

That's over 10 million. Now THAT's a pandemic.
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I am anxiously awaiting the cure or vaccine against that one, but talk about bankrupting Social Security Lol.
 
Has anyone seen or heard from Tibs? I know he disappears from this forum but I haven't seen him in the football side either. Hope he is alright. Hungary has not been hit as hard probably thanks to their border control but he is still a good if politically misguided guy.
 
Troglodyte said:
No. You’re making the false assumption that the mortality rate is static and independent of people being able to receive medical care. Also, if it’s so contagious that virtually everyone would contract it, 1% mortality means millions of deaths.
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Learn to read.

If the mortality rate is 1%, then I noted that is probably the cut-off for needing these severe measures.

If the mortality rate is actually 0.1%, then these measures were overblown and very likely caused more harm than good.

Job losses cause extreme suffering. Every 1 percent hike in the unemployment rate will likely produce a 3.3 percent increase in drug-overdose deaths and a 0.99 percent increase in suicides, according to data from the National Bureau of Economic Research and the medical journal Lancet.

These are facts based on past experience, not models. If unemployment hits 32 percent, some 77,000 Americans are likely to die from suicide and drug overdoses as a result of layoffs. Deaths of despair.

Then add the predictable deaths from alcohol abuse caused by *unemployment. Health economist Michael French from the University of Miami found a “significant association between job loss” and binge drinking and alcoholism.

The impact of layoffs goes *beyond suicide, drug overdosing and drinking, however. Overall, the death rate for an unemployed person is 63 percent higher than for someone with a job, according to findings in the journal Social Science & Medicine.

Now do the math: Layoff-related deaths could far outnumber the 60,400 coronavirus deaths predicted by University of Washington researchers.
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https://nypost.com/2020/04/14/we-must-count-the-deaths-from-shutdowns-as-well-as-from-coronavirus/
 
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