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The Coronavirus thread

I wonder if the US owns any piece of the critical food supply chain in China?

After the **** they have pulled we should own half the Country, they owe us and the rest of the world a major debt for their failure to take responsibility not for the crisis starting but for a total lack of honest and information, assuming it was not a malicious act to start with. They should be canceling debt or paying us and other countries for damages caused by their lies.

We must reduce or totally end our reliance on china for manufacturing. That is how Trump wins the next election, he needs to hammer that point over and over and over. The people of this Country are ready to hear that message, even in Democratic States I think.
 
I wonder if the US owns any piece of the critical food supply chain in China?

Doubtful. China is pretty strict about foreign investors buying up their companies without a joint venture and I doubt they would allow any foreign investor to have any say in their critical supply chains.

I am worried that this will open the door for them to buy even more US companies, and companies in other countries as they struggle economically through this shutdown.
 
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Resuming normal economic activity seems to require consumers feeling safe to resume their normal consumption patterns. Ending lockdowns prematurely and spiking cases and deaths would seem
to increase the safety risk and thus hinder consumers resuming consumption patterns. Seems more logical to beat the virus first and use this time to be putting in place procedures (like frequent testing)
that will let people feel safer when the economy resumes. Impatience likely does more damage than necessary.
 
Resuming normal economic activity seems to require consumers feeling safe to resume their normal consumption patterns. Ending lockdowns prematurely and spiking cases and deaths would seem
to increase the safety risk and thus hinder consumers resuming consumption patterns. Seems more logical to beat the virus first and use this time to be putting in place procedures (like frequent testing)
that will let people feel safer when the economy resumes. Impatience likely does more damage than necessary.

Yes, lets collapse the US and Global economy to save a few lives. Let's keep printing money and adding to the federal deficit and debt until inflation skyrockets and you totally devalue the USD. All this for a virus that has a mortality rate of 1% or less. BRILLIANT
 
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I can't speak for everywhere or other plants, but House of Raeford Farms here in NC is selling the chicken they normally sold to restaurants in bulk to the general public. They are 40lb cases and you can choose from breasts, legs, wings, etc. each a different price point, but priced really low. I do believe the boneless breasts case is going for $45. Every couple of days they set up in a different area with their trucks and start (or supposed to) at 9am. You have to go there to purchase, but you stay in your car and they load it up for you. It's cash only. They have had a ridiculous amount of people show up at every location with people showing up as early as 4am to make sure they are first in line.

Me, I have had no issue finding chicken, and my husband is going up to Louisburg today to pick up a half case of quartered up chicken from Moss's who does their own processing. We do this normally as we have a deep freezer and keep plenty of meat on hand anyways.

I used to go to Moss’s quite a bit for meat. It is about 10 miles from where I used to live. Kind of a grubby place that smells funny, but I never got bad meat from there.
 
Tim sometimes it almost seems like you are cheering for an economic disaster.

Wrong. I'm realistic of the effects these downturns have. And I'm using realism with the shut down apologists who all blindly keep claiming 'we will bounce back' as if this is all just a hiccup.

As you posted but failed to focus on States like Ohio are working to get back open.

Real "plans" for re-opening began being publicized yesterday, maybe as early as the day before no? How long have I been banging this drum? I'm happy as **** we are moving in that direction.

You are underestimating the will and ingenuity of the American people.

Provide evidence that I am and document it following these simple rules - You are not allowed to say "I think...." or "I believe..." in your reply.

What I am doing is providing a reality check. People by the tens of thousands will die from the cure. You can deny all you want, it's happened repeatedly throughout history during minor to major economic downturns. You're quite literally being willfully blind if you think this time will be different. Already, some % of Americans will die as a result of what's been done.

22 Million unemployed in one month. Does that....even phase you?

We will get through this. We will adapt and make this work as long as they truly are working to get us open. Despite your belief otherwise

I don't believe otherwise. I know we will get through this. You miss the point and have since the beginning. At what cost? If we lose 65,000 to CV19 and 130,000 to the cure and set our economy back 10 years or even 3, were the decisions right? I get a vote. I say no. If it goes that way.

You will see a renewed spirit of cooperation between companies and workers.

Those companies still in business. Those workers who still have a job to go back to. You miss a fantastic problem. Of the 22 million unemployed, what % have a job to go back to? Those that don't have fewer jobs to apply for now.

Did you take economics at any point?

You will see people going out of their way to patronize businesses they once took fro granted, at least for awhile.

You mean those that have a paycheck and money to spend will return to those businesses that were fortunate enough to stay open. The restaurant business has taken a $25BILLION hit so far. That's with a big fat Giant B. How many restaurants closed, what %? A **** TON.

So the people who have money may patronize the businesses that survived. We will not snap back to what it was before.

Yes there will be some economic casualties that we will be dealing with for awhile but have some faith in humanity to rise to the challenge. We are far less damaged than we were in previous downturns at this point.

WTF?? It's stupid **** like this that makes a man wanna pull his hair out, when you literally profess falsehoods as truth. Please for the love of god go do some research. I've countered this point 7 times? 12? One week ago we were at 16.6 Million unemployed, a figure that took 10.5 months to get to during the great depression. We are now at 22Million. We've had to add Trillions more to the debt.

This will be worse than the Great Recession of 2008. Already is by many different measures.

Please stop sharing this misinformation.

Yes I agree with you if this goes to long you would be right

It already has

The very anger and simmering you feel out there is what gives me the hope we will rise and overcome these challenges. And in the long run be stronger for it.

Reading your posts on this topic is quite much like reading a Hallmark Card.

This anger and simmering, if we don't open up soon enough, is gonna lead to bloodshed. Let's hope we don't rioting like Brussels and Southern Italy. Let's hope this doesn't become a powder keg for all of these new guns purchased


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Supe is suggesting that meat plants WILL close down due to the economic shut down. I'm showing support for that claim.

Trog is confused and thinks Supe meant the Smithfield plant shut down DUE to the economic shut down. That one did because many contracted the virus.

Two different discussions going on LOL

No, Stupe specified the Smithfield plant. Whatever alternative news sources you guys use came up with alternative facts as to why meat processors were closing and kept the outbreaks a secret because having multiple businesses in states which are not practicing shelter-in-place orders seriously flies in the face of the anti-shutdown argument. You three were woefully uninformed. You then tried shamelessly to cover up your obvious ignorance.

As I said, the meat processors closing HAD NOTHiNG TO DO WITH THE ECONOMIC SHUTDOWN.
 
This video will answer your question.
At 00:44



Try posting this on the Book of Face. It will be banned as soon as it's posted. Because their "Independent fact checkers" (aka Democratic donors, supports of Twitter conservative voice suppression, and Nancy Pelosi's boot lickers) have deemed it to be fake.
 
I used to go to Moss’s quite a bit for meat. It is about 10 miles from where I used to live. Kind of a grubby place that smells funny, but I never got bad meat from there.

Yeah, there is that, but it is Louisburg and that is located within Franklin County. I live near the Johnston county line, and there is no shortage of grubby funny smelling places around there either. Of course, those counties also have the better moonshine. :chug:
 
No, Stupe specified the Smithfield plant. Whatever alternative news sources you guys use came up with alternative facts as to why meat processors were closing and kept the outbreaks a secret because having multiple businesses in states which are not practicing shelter-in-place orders seriously flies in the face of the anti-shutdown argument. You three were woefully uninformed. You then tried shamelessly to cover up your obvious ignorance.

As I said, the meat processors closing HAD NOTHiNG TO DO WITH THE ECONOMIC SHUTDOWN.

below is my quote...

yet here's what can and will result in people continuing to stay home. meat processing plants will close. Smithfield already did. more are likely to follow. farmers are not going to be able to plant their crops. the grocery stores will soon begin to experience shortages, then complete outages of products. then what? pump another $900 quad trillion billion infinity dollars into peoples' checking accounts? money will be worthless, as there will be nothing to buy. air sandwiches will become a staple for many.

i'm never suggested that Smithfield closed due to stay-home orders. show me where in my statement that I said that. I said that Smithfield closed. People are staying home. You dare to equate one statement as a direct cause to the other, when that was not the intention. People staying home will have a more profound impact. Those people will be going to the store, buying up the meats and chicken and making the coolers bare - just as they did with the toilet paper.

or are you so dense that you believe people will stay home 24/7, shuttering themselves and their families inside, hiding under blankets and shivering at the mere mention of Covid?
 
Resuming normal economic activity seems to require consumers feeling safe to resume their normal consumption patterns. Ending lockdowns prematurely and spiking cases and deaths would seem
to increase the safety risk and thus hinder consumers resuming consumption patterns. Seems more logical to beat the virus first and use this time to be putting in place procedures (like frequent testing)
that will let people feel safer when the economy resumes. Impatience likely does more damage than necessary.

I think when we open here in Oregon I'm going to continue to wear my masks until I think it'll be safe to not wear them.
 
No, Stupe specified the Smithfield plant. Whatever alternative news sources you guys use came up with alternative facts as to why meat processors were closing and kept the outbreaks a secret because having multiple businesses in states which are not practicing shelter-in-place orders seriously flies in the face of the anti-shutdown argument. You three were woefully uninformed. You then tried shamelessly to cover up your obvious ignorance.

As I said, the meat processors closing HAD NOTHiNG TO DO WITH THE ECONOMIC SHUTDOWN.

Just when I didn't think you could get more stupid, you outdo yourself. That's saying a ton, even for you.

Let's take Supe's comment in full context, so even Tardlodyte can get it:

"yet here's what can and will result in people continuing to stay home. meat processing plants will close. Smithfield already did. more are likely to follow. farmers are not going to be able to plant their crops. the grocery stores will soon begin to experience shortages, then complete outages of products."

His prelude sums up his intent. The part in bold translated = "I'm going to give you examples of why the shut down forcing people to stay at home is bad."

He then gives you an example: "meat processing plants will close." Translation = IN GENERAL, meat processing plants will close. And that statement was in fact correct:

"Commodity markets have tanked, even with beef flying off the shelves. There is the worry that packing plants will shut down. And producers, who were already hanging on by a thread due to several years of low profitability and losses may now go out of business for good."

You call this an alternative news source. LOL. Beef Magazine quoting on the Beef industry is the same as Forbes or the Wall Street Journal quoting on financial markets.

BEEF, the nation’s leading cattle publication, publishes monthly issues for the nation’s top cow-calf operators, stocker-growers, cattle feeders, veterinarians, nutritionists and allied industries, covering production, animal health, nutrition, finance and marketing issues. The BEEF editorial staff produces 300 sector-targeted electronic newsletters annually. The BEEF franchise’s website – beefmagazine.com – offers critical news, markets and industry insight, houses the magazine archives and many additional reference features important to U.S. beef producers, and annually serves 3.4 million page views.

Supe then pointed out Smithfield already did, more are likely to follow. He didn't say Smithfield did because of the shutdown, he made a general statement that "plants" will close "like" Smithfield has...not for the SAME DAMNED REASON. He then further provided example about the food chain in general.

As I eloquently pointed out, your schtick is readily identifiable. He posted an epic post full of salient points. Your plan as always is to find one thing you think you can paint someone into a corner with so as to try to mitigate an entire post and thus call it worthless. It was obvious you were trying to bait us all into saying "The economic shut down is why Smithfield closed" when anyone who follows the news knows Smithfield closed THAT plant due to workers contracting the virus.

Yet none of that has anything to do with his claim that meat plants are likely to close.

Since you are myopically focused on trying to win an inane argument you simply cannot, I'll provide more evidence to support his valid and evidence-supported claim:

Economist and rancher Brett Crosby, Cowley, Wyo., said he is working with the U.S. Cattlemen’s Association to determine how many dollars feeders and cattlemen lost in value, due to the coronavirus pandemic. The organization plans to submit a request for an aid package from the federal government.
.
Hmmmm....feeders and cattlemen are losing money and need a Federal Aid package.

From the Washington Post (that obscure source) - this corroborates every single thing Supe, Steeltime and I have said.

Meat processing plants are closing due to covid-19 outbreaks. Beef shortfalls may follow.

Several of the country’s largest beef-packing companies have announced plant closures.

Before the coronavirus hit, about 660,000 beef cattle were being processed each week at plants across the United States, according to John Bormann, program sales manager for JBS, the American subsidiary of the world’s largest processor of fresh beef and pork.

This week there probably will be around 500,000 head processed at U.S. plants still in operation. That’s 25 percent less beef being produced.

Some of the slowdown is because of facility closures. Two of the seven largest U.S. facilities — those with the capacity to process 5,000 beef cattle daily — are closed because of the pandemic.

Absenteeism, fewer employees and spreading out those remaining employees to maintain social distance are all also contributing to the slow down.

National Beef Packing Co. announced Monday the closure of its Tama, Iowa, facility. And Cargill shuttered production at its Hazleton, Pa., ground beef and pork processing plant, and then reduced production at one of Canada’s biggest beef-packing plants after dozens of workers became infected.

The meat supply chain is especially vulnerable to the spread of the coronavirus since processing is increasingly done at a handful of massive plants. Another problem in the beef supply, according to Bormann, is something called carcass utilization — the use of the whole animal.

“The first problem is we don’t have enough people to process the animals, and number two is they can’t do carcass balance because restaurants are down,” he said. “What’s selling? Freaking hamburger.”

This foreign meat company got U.S. tax money. Now it wants to conquer America.

Restaurants typically use the expensive stuff — strips, ribs, tenderloins and sirloin, Bormann said, while retail takes the chucks and rounds and trims. With restaurants mostly shuttered, “all of a sudden 23 percent of the animal isn’t being bought because food service is gone,” he said.

Industry experts said that the shutdown of beef processing facilities could prompt another round of hoarding at the grocery stores, as with toilet paper and milk several weeks ago.

U.S. beef sales reached an all-time high in 2019, with 57.7 pounds consumed per capita. Before the pandemic, the National Cattlemen’s Beef Association anticipated a similar outlook for 2020.

“Is there a risk that we go through another round of empty shelves?” asked Don Close, senior animal protein analyst in North America for Rabo AgriFinance. “Yes, that’s a very real risk right now. And we could see higher prices.”

Sophie Mellet-Grinnell, the protein specialist for food distributor Baldor Specialty Foods, said the disruptions in the beef supply chain could also affect consumer prices.

“Certain cuts will get more expensive: the grinds and economical cuts, like anything off the chuck, minute steaks, London broil,” she said. “There are a lot of people out of work, so you’ll see an even bigger pull on chicken and inexpensive proteins.”

With restaurants closed, some higher-priced cuts may be sold at a discount, she said, “But you can only sell so much at a lower cost before you lose money, so you freeze it.”

By all means, continue to argue that meat plants will not be closing, have not closed, and those that did were 100% due to employees getting sick.

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Wrong. I'm realistic of the effects these downturns have. And I'm using realism with the shut down apologists who all blindly keep claiming 'we will bounce back' as if this is all just a hiccup.



Real "plans" for re-opening began being publicized yesterday, maybe as early as the day before no? How long have I been banging this drum? I'm happy as **** we are moving in that direction.



Provide evidence that I am and document it following these simple rules - You are not allowed to say "I think...." or "I believe..." in your reply. And really you should because all your facts are debatable as to their value in the argument

What I am doing is providing a reality check. People by the tens of thousands will die from the cure. You can deny all you want, it's happened repeatedly throughout history during minor to major economic downturns. You're quite literally being willfully blind if you think this time will be different. Already, some % of Americans will die as a result of what's been done.

22 Million unemployed in one month. Does that....even phase you? No not at this point it doesn't scare me much as I have stated and you have not actually refuted, those numbers are more or less meaningless, at this point compared to unemployment number from an organic economic turndown in that the jobs are not actually lost. That is the point you can't seem to understand. There IS a difference to those numbers from ordinary circumstances, as a vast majority of those will be right back to work when we reopen. Period. Why can't you get that through your head? YES if it goes too long(I know it has already in your OPINION) then we can really worry about those not coming back.



I don't believe otherwise. I know we will get through this. You miss the point and have since the beginning. At what cost? If we lose 65,000 to CV19 and 130,000 to the cure and set our economy back 10 years or even 3, were the decisions right? I get a vote. I say no. If it goes that way. Thank you for saying IF



Those companies still in business. Those workers who still have a job to go back to. You miss a fantastic problem. Of the 22 million unemployed, what % have a job to go back to? Those that don't have fewer jobs to apply for now. At this point a very large percentage, prove me wrong.

Did you take economics at any point?

Yes I have, Macro and Micro. I was political science major.

You mean those that have a paycheck and money to spend will return to those businesses that were fortunate enough to stay open. The restaurant business has taken a $25BILLION hit so far. That's with a big fat Giant B. How many restaurants closed, what %? A **** TON. Proof?

So the people who have money may patronize the businesses that survived. We will not snap back to what it was before. No I agree it won't be the same. For those that come back It will be stronger at least at first and I see more coming back than your pessimistic opinion



WTF?? It's stupid **** like this that makes a man wanna pull his hair out, when you literally profess falsehoods as truth. Please for the love of god go do some research. I've countered this point 7 times? 12? One week ago we were at 16.6 Million unemployed, a figure that took 10.5 months to get to during the great depression. We are now at 22Million. We've had to add Trillions more to the debt. This point I will concede on the debt. But that problem was so out of hand at this point I am not sure this makes any significant degree of worsening the problem from what it was. The numbers are ridiculous with or without this

This will be worse than the Great Recession of 2008. Already is by many different measures.Only on a very short term scale and this again was not an organic economics driven decline therefore the greater chance that the recovery is something different than we have seen and we don't have Obama in office.

Please stop sharing this misinformation.I would tell you EXACTLY the same thing unless you are trying to guarantee an economic disaster. I find alot of what you share the comparisons you make at this point inaccurate due to the nature of and response to the downturn. You can't argue that, as it is still a great unknown at this point. You do not have some magic crystal ball in this scenario which makes your claims any more or less valid than mine. None of the studies you post deal with this exact unique set of variable on the future of this recovery and you can't claim they do.
h


It already has

I don't find your "facts" to hold any greater value because you don't have the guts to admit despite your claims, that what you post is still just your opinion. That is what makes you come across as a jackass sometimes. Your opinion is of no greater or lesser value than any other person on here. I value your opinions when you are not acting like a jackass about them even when I don't fully agree. I welcome a back forth and will sometimes change my mind on something when it is presented correctly and accurately. Being a jackass never changes anyone's opinion it just hardens their resolve to argue with you. Try a little more humility and grace and a little less aggressiveness in your posts. When you really look at it we are not far apart on our opinions on MOST of the facts only in the interpretation of the empirical data and what it means moving forward do we really differ. We want the same outcome I hope. YOu even talk about the will and the anger of the people to get open, don't yo think that energy can be of positive value to fixing things quickly if channeled correctly?
 
She was terminated today,Lack of patients the reason


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Sorry to hear that Charlie. This is happening at Hospitals and Clinics all over the country. The whole reason for this lockdown was to prevent an overload of our medical system, meanwhile we have 40% of the medical community furloughed or out of work, and are no where near being at capacity. Something sure does smell foul in Denmark.
 
I think the thing people have to get through their head is that this virus was running rampant for months unchecked... deaths barely spiked over normal death rates because it targets the same general victims as most communal diseases... we chalked everything up to a bad flu season until we started looking for it

With most people having little to no symptoms, it has a gestation period from two days to two weeks and symptoms can last up to 30 days or more... there simply is too much variation to really nail down any patters that mean anything about the lockdown, bit it makes sense that if it was super widespread before the lockdown the numbers would react the same across the board...

Remember as more of the population has antibodies and resistance, that takes them out of the loop in transferring the virus... its no different than locking them down... it creates a natural buffer and drops the number exponentially...
 
Sorry to hear that Charlie. This is happening at Hospitals and Clinics all over the country. The whole reason for this lockdown was to prevent an overload of our medical system, meanwhile we have 40% of the medical community furloughed or out of work, and are no where near being at capacity. Something sure does smell foul in Denmark.

Ohio is getting ready to start back with some elective surgeries. I know that is not help in your case but is is a positive sign. I don't think anyone who actually thought about it, was truly concerned about entire hospitals being overwhelmed just the specific units and equipment needed to treat severe respiratory illnesses.
 
His own or someone else's?

Wait, what? OMG, you people are so base.

I was of course referring to Trog's expertise in handling meat such as beef and chicken. Your interpretation is frankly shocking, SIL.

Trog has posted numerous times how he loves big, thick meat, preferably well-marbled, meaning with a lot of veins showing. He says about beef, "If it's swollen, I'm a pullin; if it's hard and thick, I'll give it a lick."

Referring to prime beef, obviously. Now back to the debate.
 
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