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The Coronavirus thread

Is it worse than the flu? Probably. Could we have had similar results by mitigating but without all of the drastic measures we took? Probably. Will there be a cost in lives to continuing these draconian policies for another couple of months? Absolutely.

These are the questions. It's not a question of "without doing everything we did millions would have died". I don't believe that for a second.

We could save millions of infectious disease deaths around the world every year by continuing these policies forever. Wait what, you don't want to do that? Why do you want to kill grandma?
 
Now let me ask something else.You're 85 in a nursing home (so obviously you already have some health issues or you wouldn't be there). You have a choice...you can live indefinitely without seeing anyone you love and most likely die alone within a year or two of something else without having been able to spend a moment with your family, or you can take a 20% or so chance of getting coronavirus and dying, but you'll be allowed to get occasional visits from your family (albeit you all might have to wear masks and sit 6 feet apart).

Which do you choose?

How many of our elderly are sitting there right now alone with their will to live slipping away from them because they aren't allowed any visitors? And that's better?
 
Did you know that before this pandemic, 65% of end of life (meaning people who are there due to old age vs. people who are there rehabbing from injury or illness) residents in nursing homes die within one year of moving in? 53% die within 6 months? That the median stay for men is 3 months, and for women 8 months? So you are basically asking most of the elderly to spend their last few months on this earth alone to what, give them maybe another couple of months?

It may sound brutal to some but to me it's more compassionate to let people enjoy what time they have left than to give them a longer but miserable existence.
 
Now let me ask something else.You're 85 in a nursing home (so obviously you already have some health issues or you wouldn't be there). You have a choice...you can live indefinitely without seeing anyone you love and most likely die alone within a year or two of something else without having been able to spend a moment with your family, or you can take a 20% or so chance of getting coronavirus and dying, but you'll be allowed to get occasional visits from your family (albeit you all might have to wear masks and sit 6 feet apart).

Which do you choose?

How many of our elderly are sitting there right now alone with their will to live slipping away from them because they aren't allowed any visitors? And that's better?

I know what I would choose.....
 
It's funny how many people I see on social media sneering at these protesters and every single one I personally know who is, is sitting at home still collecting a full paycheck and benefits.
 
I'm not trying to justify it, just saying the dangers is how hard and fast it hits compared to the flu. You have to look at more than deaths to assess the dangers. No PPE, lack of vents, possibility of hospitals running out of proper space / equipment. Sure hospitals have lots of beds, but how many negative pressure rooms and such. Also the disease may have been killing people months ago we simply do not know what the numbers are and may not ever. Early reports were it was much deadlier than the flu which is probably not the case. The main issue is how fast it spreads and the strain it places on the Healthcare system

Not trying to pick a fight with you, but those are simply porn-fear talking points the media is feeding you.

If the antibody testing continues as it did in CA, for every infection there are 10x to 20x more people out there with the infection already. That means it is more contagious, far far far less deadly.

We never had a shortage of vents or beds. Hospitals are laying people off and they are under capacity. We are short on PPE, but that's a governmental fault/problem.

If the disease was killing people months ago, why are our overall USA mortality rates looking normal as usual?

We now know more. It spreads more easily/faster (10x to 20x those infected have it) and it's less deadly and it was never going to overwhelm our healthcare system given what we know now.
 
It's funny how many people I see on social media sneering at these protesters and every single one I personally know who is, is sitting at home still collecting a full paycheck and benefits.

That's the rub, isn't it? I can see chastising the flocks of people that headed to the beach in Florida, that's just way too irresponsible. But people that are out of work because their businesses weren't deemed 'essential' are reaching the breaking point.

Saw an interview with a woman who owns/runs a salon that's been shutdown for a month. Sure it's 'non-essential' service, but it's her livelihood. Without it, she stands to lose her business (assuming she rents her salon space), her home (can't pay the rent or mortgage), starves (no money to by food and necessities), etc.

So should she hiding from the virus in her home or fighting for her right to live?
 
Taking their cue from college spring breakers a month ago. What could go wrong?

You really are trying to win the "Elfie" as the stupidest and most irritating contributor this year. The following are irrefutable facts that you deliberately ignore or misstate:

  • The economic shutdown was based on models predicting more than 1 million deaths without a shutdown, 100,000 to 240,000 with a shutdown.
  • The economic shutdown was based on mortality rates of more than 1% for the Chinese flu.
  • The projected deaths were VASTLY, ENORMOUSLY, INCREDIBLY, STUPENDOUSLY overstated.
  • The mortality rate was VASTLY, ENORMOUSLY, INCREDIBLY, STUPENDOUSLY overstated.
  • The most recent research from Santa Clara - from a state and county with EARLY ******* shutdown orders, chief - shows a very, very large percentage of the population already has antibodies, and didn't even know they had the Chinese flu. Huh.
  • If those projections are tailored down, for some reason, despite the fact that Santa Clara County in California had a ******* shutdown as of March 19, 2020 - 11 days BEFORE New York - then tens of millions of Americans, perhaps as many at 30 million, have already had the ******* virus and not even known it.
  • Let's not take 10% of the population. Let's say Santa Clara County inexplicably had 3x the infection rate of other parts of the country, for some reason, despite the early shutdown. With me so far? 2nd grade being closed is making it extremeley tough on you, I know.
  • So let's take 5%, meaning approximately 16 million Americans have the antibodies, i.e., had the Chinese flu and are out and about. With me?
  • Then look at the projected death toll, at least until it is revised downward for the fifth time, of 60,000. Hell, for purposes of this analysis, presume the death toll unfortunately reaches 80,000, or a very, very bad flu season.
    https://virusncov.com/That would equal 80,000 out of 16,000,000 infected, or 0.5% (80,000/16,000,000 x 100 = 0.5%). ZERO. POINT. FIVE. PERCENT.
  • If we take the actual, present projection of 61,000 deaths, and reduce the number of Americans with antibodies to just 15 million, or just 4.5% of the population, less than 1/3 the number in Santa Clara and its early, total lockdown, we get a mortality rate of ... 0.4%. ZERO. POINT. FOUR. PERCENT.

And how many people has the lockdown killed? Oh, don't know, do we? But **** them, right, Trog?
 
It's funny how many people I see on social media sneering at these protesters and every single one I personally know who is, is sitting at home still collecting a full paycheck and benefits.

This ^^^

I genuinely believe that guys like Fauci and his cohorts don't ******* get it and never will get it. They are set. They get paid. They are not losing their businesses, their savings, their homes, their education.

Part of the reason why government can **** up a wedding. Too little risk and waaaaay too much assurance that no matter what they do, no matter what orders they render, THEY get paid.
 
You really are trying to win the "Elfie" as the stupidest and most irritating contributor this year. The following are irrefutable facts that you deliberately ignore or misstate:

  • The economic shutdown was based on models predicting more than 1 million deaths without a shutdown, 100,000 to 240,000 with a shutdown.
  • The economic shutdown was based on mortality rates of more than 1% for the Chinese flu.
  • The projected deaths were VASTLY, ENORMOUSLY, INCREDIBLY, STUPENDOUSLY overstated.
  • The mortality rate was VASTLY, ENORMOUSLY, INCREDIBLY, STUPENDOUSLY overstated.
  • The most recent research from Santa Clara - from a state and county with EARLY ******* shutdown orders, chief - shows a very, very large percentage of the population already has antibodies, and didn't even know they had the Chinese flu. Huh.
  • If those projections are tailored down, for some reason, despite the fact that Santa Clara County in California had a ******* shutdown as of March 19, 2020 - 11 days BEFORE New York - then tens of millions of Americans, perhaps as many at 30 million, have already had the ******* virus and not even known it.
  • Let's not take 10% of the population. Let's say Santa Clara County inexplicably had 3x the infection rate of other parts of the country, for some reason, despite the early shutdown. With me so far? 2nd grade being closed is making it extremeley tough on you, I know.
  • So let's take 5%, meaning approximately 16 million Americans have the antibodies, i.e., had the Chinese flu and are out and about. With me?
  • Then look at the projected death toll, at least until it is revised downward for the fifth time, of 60,000. Hell, for purposes of this analysis, presume the death toll unfortunately reaches 80,000, or a very, very bad flu season.
    https://virusncov.com/That would equal 80,000 out of 16,000,000 infected, or 0.5% (80,000/16,000,000 x 100 = 0.5%). ZERO. POINT. FIVE. PERCENT.
  • If we take the actual, present projection of 61,000 deaths, and reduce the number of Americans with antibodies to just 15 million, or just 4.5% of the population, less than 1/3 the number in Santa Clara and its early, total lockdown, we get a mortality rate of ... 0.4%. ZERO. POINT. FOUR. PERCENT.

And how many people has the lockdown killed? Oh, don't know, do we? But **** them, right, Trog?

So if someone cited a study yesterday showing that deaths could still reach 140k, you’d have a problem with that person?

You still fail to see the absurdity of using the effectiveness of the shut-down as a basis for an argument as to why it was completely unnecessary.

Do you really think that if we had not shut down the economy that the outbreaks would still be mostly limited to nursing homes and meat processing plants? When was the last time multiple meat processing plants in multiple states shut down because of a massive flu outbreak that resulted in multiple deaths?
 
https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/493633-health-care-workers-block-protesters-challenging-stay-at-home-order-in

So if Kapperdick kneels in protest he is a hero to the Dems and his right to protest should be protected without any repercussions. If a conservative wants to protest the blatant trampling of the bill of rights by the government, the people blocking the protests are considered heroic and admirable. You would need a chainsaw to cut the hypocrisy. You are only allowed to protest if the Dems approve of what you are protesting for.
 
You still fail to see the absurdity of using the effectiveness of the shut-down as a basis for an argument as to why it was completely unnecessary.

I don't see anyone saying some mitigation was completely unnecessary. Only that it was overkill and that it needn't and can't be dragged out much longer.
 
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This ^^^

I genuinely believe that guys like Fauci and his cohorts don't ******* get it and never will get it. They are set. They get paid. They are not losing their businesses, their savings, their homes, their education.

Part of the reason why government can **** up a wedding. Too little risk and waaaaay too much assurance that no matter what they do, no matter what orders they render, THEY get paid.

Yep.

Government construction projects are being allowed to continue in many places. Private construction projects are gonna kill grandma.

Interesting.
 
Yep.

Government construction projects are being allowed to continue in many places. Private construction projects are gonna kill grandma.

Interesting.

Plenty of private construction projects going forward here. We are still installing windows and doors.
 
It's funny how many people I see on social media sneering at these protesters and every single one I personally know who is, is sitting at home still collecting a full paycheck and benefits.

It's funny how many people I see on social media supporting these protesters and every single one sure as hell isn't a doctor or nurse treating COVID-19 patients.
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="und" dir="ltr"> <a href="https://t.co/cVd4F1ogW4">pic.twitter.com/cVd4F1ogW4</a></p>— Don Collins (@_don_collins) <a href="https://twitter.com/_don_collins/status/1250193731627544577?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 14, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
Dimotards want the shutdown to continue for as long as possible, at any cost. All they care about is not allowing our capitalist economy to start growing again. Because orange man bad. They want death to America. Everyone dependent on government support and one globalist world. They are pure evil.
 
It's funny how many people I see on social media supporting these protesters and every single one sure as hell isn't a doctor or nurse treating COVID-19 patients.


Probably not the docs and nurses in New York or Detroit, but here in the suburbs of PA nurses I know are seeing their friends laid off because the hospital is half empty and doctors offices aren't seeing patients.

It will be not funny but interesting to see how many people show up with advanced cancers and such in a couple of months because they couldn't get screening tests in these half empty hospitals and shuttered offices.
 
Saw a tweet by Geoorge Takei saying essentially that people who protested and brought their kids with them should be arrested for child endangerment and treated as a criminal.

Yet he supports abortion.....
 
Plenty of private construction projects going forward here. We are still installing windows and doors.

Wolf just opened up private construction in PA today.

Maybe the protests are working to restore some reasonableness to these restrictions.
 
So if someone cited a study yesterday showing that deaths could still reach 140k, you’d have a problem with that person?


Trog … so dumb he defends the indefensible and thinks he is right.

You still fail to see the absurdity of using the effectiveness of the shut-down as a basis for an argument as to why it was completely unnecessary.

No, you idiot, the data I provided ******* PROVED that every goddamn estimate, projection, screeching alarm was false, at all times, and was blatantly overstated.

Further, very early on highly credible epidemiologists warned that the lockdown simply prolonged the virus, and that herd immunity tends to slow down viruses without a lockdown. The MUCH better approach is to lock down, oh, I don't know, PEOPLE WHO SHOULD BE LOCKED DOWN, like those over 65, those with significant pre-existing conditions.

The dire warnings about millions needed hospitalization were bullshit, always were, always will be.

Oh, Ford shut down auto production and made 50,000 ventilators!! Awe-*******-some!!

Except we don't need 50,000 ventilators, do we, and never needed 50,000 ventilators, and Cuomo was blazingly wrong, and Ford is going bankrupt at this rate. But who cares, right?

Seems that you are still earning plenty of grub, Flog. Good for you. Forgive the rest of us not wanting to line up like orphaned urchins, asking for handouts like Oliver Twist.

Every ******* dire, panicked, overwrought warning was wrong. Every. Goddamn. One. Seems like a significant percentage of the population had the virus and the Chinese flu killed at a higher rate than the regular flu, but nowhere NEAR the dire predictions that brought about the lockdown.

And as expected, the doomsayers who wreak havoc with their dire predictions and oversee rampant destruction of businesses and jobs and careers and live savings with prognostications as wrong as 9th century astronomers never apologize, or suggest that perhaps they were ****** in the head for making such dire predictions. Nope, never. Instead, "Oh, thank God we projected 58 bazillion dead and brought the country to its knees, as otherwise think how bad it would have been!!"

More make-believe to defend their disproved and false earlier make-believe. But hey, they're getting paid so it's all good.

Do you really think that if we had not shut down the economy that the outbreaks would still be mostly limited to nursing homes and meat processing plants? When was the last time multiple meat processing plants in multiple states shut down because of a massive flu outbreak that resulted in multiple deaths?

You idiot, why are you unable to process more than one thought per eon? As Ben Shapiro likes to say, "Two things can be true at the same time." The actual data now show those two things are:

  • More would have perished without the lockdown, very likely tens of thousands more, but nowhere NEAR the hundreds of thousands projected. NOT. EVEN. CLOSE. The projections were so wrong as to be ludicrous.
  • Second, the lockdown has killed and will kill tens of thousands due to drug overdose, alcohol abuse, depression, poverty and suicide. More than the additional deaths possibly due to a much, much more restricted and intelligent lockdown - like Sweden.

Funny how I brought up Sweden and its much more measured response and the outcome and you pretend like that nation does not exist. Sweden shows the panic-button crowd was wrong? Pfffft, ignore Sweden.
 
It's funny how many people I see on social media supporting these protesters and every single one sure as hell isn't a doctor or nurse treating COVID-19 patients.

Here, let me try and explain this so someone even as stupid as you can get it. Here goes …

1. The protesters are protesting not being allowed to work and earn money so they can pay their bills.
2. The doctors and nursed treating patients are working, have no need to protest, and from all indications are making a **** ton of overtime.

Dumbass.
 
The 61K deaths projected is on pace to be reached before the end of April.

There are two sides of the economic equation, supply and demand. The governors can remove restrictions and supply can resume, but will demand for those products and services resume.
If the lifting of the restrictions increases the virus cases and deaths, it will take longer for demand to resume. I, personally, will not be going to a movie theater or a restaurant until 2021, no matter
when my Governor lets them open.
 
Trog … so dumb he defends the indefensible and thinks he is right.



No, you idiot, the data I provided ******* PROVED that every goddamn estimate, projection, screeching alarm was false, at all times, and was blatantly overstated.

Further, very early on highly credible epidemiologists warned that the lockdown simply prolonged the virus, and that herd immunity tends to slow down viruses without a lockdown. The MUCH better approach is to lock down, oh, I don't know, PEOPLE WHO SHOULD BE LOCKED DOWN, like those over 65, those with significant pre-existing conditions.

The dire warnings about millions needed hospitalization were bullshit, always were, always will be.

Oh, Ford shut down auto production and made 50,000 ventilators!! Awe-*******-some!!

Except we don't need 50,000 ventilators, do we, and never needed 50,000 ventilators, and Cuomo was blazingly wrong, and Ford is going bankrupt at this rate. But who cares, right?

Seems that you are still earning plenty of grub, Flog. Good for you. Forgive the rest of us not wanting to line up like orphaned urchins, asking for handouts like Oliver Twist.

Every ******* dire, panicked, overwrought warning was wrong. Every. Goddamn. One. Seems like a significant percentage of the population had the virus and the Chinese flu killed at a higher rate than the regular flu, but nowhere NEAR the dire predictions that brought about the lockdown.

And as expected, the doomsayers who wreak havoc with their dire predictions and oversee rampant destruction of businesses and jobs and careers and live savings with prognostications as wrong as 9th century astronomers never apologize, or suggest that perhaps they were ****** in the head for making such dire predictions. Nope, never. Instead, "Oh, thank God we projected 58 bazillion dead and brought the country to its knees, as otherwise think how bad it would have been!!"

More make-believe to defend their disproved and false earlier make-believe. But hey, they're getting paid so it's all good.



You idiot, why are you unable to process more than one thought per eon? As Ben Shapiro likes to say, "Two things can be true at the same time." The actual data now show those two things are:

  • More would have perished without the lockdown, very likely tens of thousands more, but nowhere NEAR the hundreds of thousands projected. NOT. EVEN. CLOSE. The projections were so wrong as to be ludicrous.
  • Second, the lockdown has killed and will kill tens of thousands due to drug overdose, alcohol abuse, depression, poverty and suicide. More than the additional deaths possibly due to a much, much more restricted and intelligent lockdown - like Sweden.

Funny how I brought up Sweden and its much more measured response and the outcome and you pretend like that nation does not exist. Sweden shows the panic-button crowd was wrong? Pfffft, ignore Sweden.

http://www.rfi.fr/en/international/20200416-sweden-passes-temporary-law-to-curb-covid-19

Sweden is now having to look at locking more stuff down because their measures are starting to fail. Higher deaths per million than here and rising.
 
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