The Coronavirus thread
- Thread starter hamster
- Start date
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2014
- Messages
- 8,206
- Reaction score
- 7,928
- Points
- 113
Science evolves. I'm not going to say "since we don't know everything about everything we can't trust anything". I trust that medical professional and scientists are mostly giving us the best information they have at the time. As they learn more, understanding of things can change.
I don't trust politicians and how they react to the information they are given from science. It's been arbitrary and inconsistent for sure.
It's been shown already that venting killed a % of patients who otherwise would have lived if they had not been vented. The doctors were literally grasping at straws (arbitrarily) and made some very grave decisions that cost lives. Do I think it was intentionally nefarious? No. Was it arbitrary? 100%. Was it smart, science based, vetted? No, hindsight and their testimony shows they were guessing and hindsight shows those guesses cost countless lives.
If I were to tell you that shooting one patient in the head would save 10 others, would you settle for that wartime medicine? You seem to throw legality and the hippocratic oath right out the window because "this was scary."
Sorry, but venting 70 and 80 year old patients to stop them from coughing when they had no trouble breathing is bubonic plague-era medicine.
It's akin to intentionally inducing a coma when that's medically not called for. Again, had that been a relative of mine, we'd be going to court.
Last edited:
Re-watching this. I totally forgot these points...
That they were intentionally and without warrant venting patients who didn't need it, many of which were just suffering anxiety. As someone who's suffered from that due to asthma (asthma-induced-anxiety), you can make yourself pass out from hyperventilating. Yet they treated them as covid and vented them.
And as she said putting patients on vents increased their chances of dying.
The other big point that stood out is how they were mixing non-covid patients with covid patients - as she said - betting they were going to "get it anyway." Let me say that again - they took sick, non-covid-positive patients, mixed them with covid patients and justified it because "they probably gonna catch it anyway..........................." No malpractice going on there.
Yet we are asked to trust the science.
Last edited:
Covid is bullshit. The lockdowns are bullshit. The masks are bullshit. Sometimes people get sick. Move on with living normal lives.
The idiot mayor of Indianapolis and the moron mayor of the town next to where I live (and just south of Pride) have ordered restaurants and bars to close at 10pm tonight. 10 ******* pm. Now what is the sense in that? They’re just killing the industry. The poor owners and employees could have used one frickin victory and be allowed to stay open for an extra 3 hours on what is normally their busiest night of the year. But no, **** small business. At least they’re not as evil as the wretched ***** in MI who still has a ban on all indoor dining. But **** them.
Bars close at 11pm here. Why not let them stay open until 1 am tonight...just for tonight? It’s stupid.
Rona comes out at 11:01 to partay!
And that’s just it. It’s ok for people to be in an establishment from 5pm to 11pm. But not any later! Cuz Rona knows what time it is.
You would hire somebody you thought was the best of the best, and he would say, "Hey, I wanna run this case by the best in the field." You would then witness that lawyer calling Jimmy, and me offering the most deviously wonderful advice you had ever heard.
Yep. That is known as a "differential diagnosis."
You're welcome, and it is about damn time I got some thanks on this board.
ABOUT.
DAMN.
TIME.
**** at least you are open to 10. ******* wolf
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2014
- Messages
- 8,206
- Reaction score
- 7,928
- Points
- 113
It's been shown already that venting killed a % of patients who otherwise would have lived if they had not been vented. The doctors were literally grasping at straws (arbitrarily) and made some very grave decisions that cost lives. Do I think it was intentionally nefarious? No. Was it arbitrary? 100%. Was it smart, science based, vetted? No, hindsight and their testimony shows they were guessing and hindsight shows those guesses cost countless lives.
If I were to tell you that shooting one patient in the head would save 10 others, would you settle for that wartime medicine? You seem to throw legality and the hippocratic oath right out the window because "this was scary."
Sorry, but venting 70 and 80 year old patients to stop them from coughing when they had no trouble breathing is bubonic plague-era medicine.
It's akin to intentionally inducing a coma when that's medically not called for. Again, had that been a relative of mine, we'd be going to court.
LOL. Yeah, venting someone with ARDS is exactly the same thing as shooting someone in the head. Come on Tim, that is an intellectually lazy comparison and you know it.
1. They did not know that venting people in this situation might do more harm than good. That was knowledge gained over time.
2. Yeah, if you put someone on c-pap and that person ends up infecting 20 other people with what you believe to be a very deadly disease when you could put them on a vent and maybe save them and also NOT spread the disease what would you do?
You have to believe that people are basically evil if you think they would intentionally harm people for their own selfish reasons. I don't believe it. They didn't know the best course. It's a new disease. They made mistakes that have been corrected over time.
The point is simple. Intentionally venting people is dangerous. Regardless their health. The reason they did it was intentionally to keep them from coughing/sneezing because they couldn't figure out a better way to contain spread? I'll say "come on" in return. You're acting as if nonchalantly venting people is no big deal. It's a dangerous practice for even a healthy person. For those 70 and 80? The decision led to the death of people. It was a poor decision.
Again, I don't believe it was nefarious. It was however reckless. And likewise, the excuse that it was "wartime" and therefore recklessness is ok is also equally lazy.
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2014
- Messages
- 8,206
- Reaction score
- 7,928
- Points
- 113
OMG, who said anyone was vented "nonchalantly"? Do you really believe that? If so I don't know what to tell you. I can only go by the intensive care staff I know and am related to and have cared for my family. My mother was on a vent for a week before she died. My daughter was put on a vent shortly after birth. My son was almost put on a vent at 8 months old. I can assure you NO ONE in an ICU puts anyone on a vent "nonchalantly".
Anyway I don't have the physical or mental energy to debate this further right now.
Happy New Year to all. Stay safe and well please.
Last edited:
I’m on the fence with this.
Some relatives and friends have gotten sick and passed supposedly due to covid.
So it does hit different. I was tested positive back in May. I admit I was pretty damn fatigued daily.
But given my active lifestyle and a job that is pretty active. Maybe I was over doing it.
Small biz has gotten ******. That I’ll say.
And the mistrust in government has gotten stronger.
I still do take pre caution however when I go out.
Yes I am a mask-tard only if a business requires it.
Some relatives and friends have gotten sick and passed supposedly due to covid.
So it does hit different. I was tested positive back in May. I admit I was pretty damn fatigued daily.
But given my active lifestyle and a job that is pretty active. Maybe I was over doing it.
Small biz has gotten ******. That I’ll say.
And the mistrust in government has gotten stronger.
I still do take pre caution however when I go out.
Yes I am a mask-tard only if a business requires it.
My step-dad died supposedly of Covid but the fact that the rehab facility moved him to a room that didn't have a working phone and they lost his hearing aids when he was eventually transferred to the hospital, there was no chance we could communicate with him the last two weeks of his 94 year old life leads one to wonder what the hell actually happened to the poor guy. He was still totally with it mentally wise so he could have told us what was happening. They cut his communication lines...
In my eyes, medical "professionals" can **** the hell off. What's really ironic is the establishment that we trusted to take care of him, actually killed one of their own as he was an orthopedic surgeon who took the Hippocratic Oath and lived up to it.
In my eyes, medical "professionals" can **** the hell off. What's really ironic is the establishment that we trusted to take care of him, actually killed one of their own as he was an orthopedic surgeon who took the Hippocratic Oath and lived up to it.
Last edited:
It's shocking you don't believe it. There's video testimony from a nurse and an article I shared (evidence) by physicians saying they vented people who didn't need to be vented. They made them sacrificial lambs. Somehow you want to gloss it over, or chalk it up as being "necessary normal" and dismiss it by saying we didn't know what we were doing and we learned.
When Dr's put patients on a vent who don't need to be on a vent to "try to see" if that may stop the spread of a virus and in so doing kill people, that's reckless, negligent, or whatever other adjective you want to use.
Again, it wasn't nefarious. I don't believe they tried to kill. But they did.
Just like that, the Flu is gone...yep. COVID has become the Flu. Hey Spike?! - looks like it literally is both COVID and the Flu now.
The missing flu riddle: 'Influenza has been renamed COVID,' maverick epidemiologist says
As influenza levels continue cratering, some cite COVID measures — even as COVID rates have multiplied nearly sevenfold since the spring in spite of enhanced mitigation policies.
Rates of influenza have remained persistently low through late 2020 and into 2021, cratering from levels a year ago and raising the puzzling specter of sharply reduced influenza transmission rates even as positive tests for COVID-19 have shattered numerous records over the last several weeks.
Where have all the flu cases gone?
Epidemiologist Knut Wittkowski thinks he can answer the riddle.
"Influenza has been renamed COVID in large part," said the former head of biostatistics, epidemiology and research design at Rockefeller University.
"There may be quite a number of influenza cases included in the 'presumed COVID' category of people who have COVID symptoms (which Influenza symptoms can be mistaken for), but are not tested for SARS RNA," Wittkowski told Just the News on Thursday.
Those patients, he argued, "also may have some SARS RNA sitting in their nose while being infected with Influenza, in which case the influenza would be 'confirmed' to be COVID."
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's weekly influenza surveillance tracker reports that the cumulative positive influenza test rate from late September into the week of Dec. 19 stands at 0.2% as measured by clinical labs. That's compared to a cumulative 8.7% from a year before.
The weekly comparisons are even starker: This week one year ago, the positive clinical rate was 22%, where now it stands at 0.1%.
Those low numbers continue trends observed earlier in the year in which flu rates have remained at near-zero levels. The trend is not limited to the U.S. Worldwide, health authorities have all reported sharply decreased influenza levels throughout what is normally peak flu season in the northern hemisphere. Rates in the southern hemisphere were also low this year.
The missing flu riddle: 'Influenza has been renamed COVID,' maverick epidemiologist says
As influenza levels continue cratering, some cite COVID measures — even as COVID rates have multiplied nearly sevenfold since the spring in spite of enhanced mitigation policies.
Rates of influenza have remained persistently low through late 2020 and into 2021, cratering from levels a year ago and raising the puzzling specter of sharply reduced influenza transmission rates even as positive tests for COVID-19 have shattered numerous records over the last several weeks.
Where have all the flu cases gone?
Epidemiologist Knut Wittkowski thinks he can answer the riddle.
"Influenza has been renamed COVID in large part," said the former head of biostatistics, epidemiology and research design at Rockefeller University.
"There may be quite a number of influenza cases included in the 'presumed COVID' category of people who have COVID symptoms (which Influenza symptoms can be mistaken for), but are not tested for SARS RNA," Wittkowski told Just the News on Thursday.
Those patients, he argued, "also may have some SARS RNA sitting in their nose while being infected with Influenza, in which case the influenza would be 'confirmed' to be COVID."
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's weekly influenza surveillance tracker reports that the cumulative positive influenza test rate from late September into the week of Dec. 19 stands at 0.2% as measured by clinical labs. That's compared to a cumulative 8.7% from a year before.
The weekly comparisons are even starker: This week one year ago, the positive clinical rate was 22%, where now it stands at 0.1%.
Those low numbers continue trends observed earlier in the year in which flu rates have remained at near-zero levels. The trend is not limited to the U.S. Worldwide, health authorities have all reported sharply decreased influenza levels throughout what is normally peak flu season in the northern hemisphere. Rates in the southern hemisphere were also low this year.
"In the Name of Public Safety" - this has been the badge under which so many of our rights have been infringed.
Then there is this. New York is proposing a bill that would allow them to detain you on a whim if they believe you have the virus OR came in contact with someone who did.
Nothing at all scary here, right? Right???
They are using "In the Name of Public Safety" to skirt the Constitution at every turn.
---------------------
New York Bill Allows for State to Detain You If You Are 'Carrier' of Virus or Contact With Carrier
The bill A416, obviously meant to deal with the Wuhan virus, allows for the detention of any carrier of a disease (or contacts that person has had) to be detained in a medical facility or “other apporpriate facility or premises designated by the governor.” The governor or his designee can simply have anyone locked up under this if he puts out the order. Talk about troubling and dangerous. Read this.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This is a bill up for consideration in New York State in regards to COVID-19.<br><br>Read every word of this and tell me what you think of it: <a href="https://t.co/mCkwgwPemJ">pic.twitter.com/mCkwgwPemJ</a></p>— Dr. David Samadi, MD (@drdavidsamadi) <a href="https://twitter.com/drdavidsamadi/status/1345346921616044032?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 2, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
The language is so ambiguous it can give license to lock up anyone, even those without illness, if they just had “contact” with someone who might have been ill and “cases” could mean anything including asymptomatic people.
This isn’t even close to being constitutional and violates almost everything you can imagine.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This is straight up detention camp stuff in NY! A Bill giving <a href="https://twitter.com/NYGovCuomo?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@NYGovCuomo</a>, Health Commissioner or any “designated” official full “power” to remove any person/group of people from their home if deemed contagious. It’s horrifying. Wake up NY & Fight! A416 <a href="https://t.co/mU2cWDm1oD">https://t.co/mU2cWDm1oD</a></p>— Liz Joy (@LizLemeryJoy) <a href="https://twitter.com/LizLemeryJoy/status/1345406890709295105?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 2, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
The governor can determine, on his own opinion, if you get locked up. And the governor in New York right now is someone who has already proved we should be quite concerned about.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">So disturbing. NY bill allows for the *removal and detention* of anyone who “may be a danger to public health.” Yes, that’s purposely undefined. Yes, it will be used, at least one day, to forcibly remove you or your children from your home for whatever reason the state sees fit. <a href="https://t.co/6fgl0RP8fx">https://t.co/6fgl0RP8fx</a></p>— Allie Beth Stuckey (@conservmillen) <a href="https://twitter.com/conservmillen/status/1345576703620501504?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 3, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">NEW YORK.
<br><br> "THE GOVERNOR... MAY ORDER THE *REMOVAL* AND/OR *DETENTION* OF SUCH A PERSON OR OF A GROUP OF SUCH PERSONS BY ISSUING A SINGLE ORDER.... SUCH PERSON OR GROUP OF PERSONS SHALL BE *DETAINED* IN A MEDICAL FACILITY OR OTHER APPROPRIATE FACILITY"<br><br>Tyranny. Period.
<a href="https://t.co/HXQlEsACc4">pic.twitter.com/HXQlEsACc4</a></p>— Kyle Becker (@kylenabecker) <a href="https://twitter.com/kylenabecker/status/1345276991872884737?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 2, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Commissioner? What happened to a judge? And charges?
Now remember this is just from a virus for which we now have multiple vaccines as well as multiple treatments and is over 99% survivable.
This is what happened in Canada but it could quickly be coming to us, if we let things like the New York bill get through into law.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This is what will be happening in NEW YORK if a newly proposed bill becomes (unconstitutional) "law."<br><br>This is apparently what Gov. Cuomo & other blue state governors want to see in America. Resist!<a href="https://t.co/zh4i05p5eU">https://t.co/zh4i05p5eU</a></p>— Kyle Becker (@kylenabecker) <a href="https://twitter.com/kylenabecker/status/1345440910381879297?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 2, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Oh, and in case you think they’re just talking about the virus or even just medical illnesses, maybe not just viruses.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Btw, it would only be a little crazy to remember that "racism" is now a public health crisis too under medicine based in Critical Race Theory. We might see the goalposts move and people could possibly be detained for wrongthink under NY's new concentration camp bill. <a href="https://t.co/fC9NYVbaL8">pic.twitter.com/fC9NYVbaL8</a></p>— James Lindsay, New Year, New Me (@ConceptualJames) <a href="https://twitter.com/ConceptualJames/status/1345567679424454656?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 3, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
It’s why people are sensitive to mask rules, give government an inch and they take far more than a mile. They will take whatever they think they can get away with. That’s how you get to the point of a bill like this.
Hopefully, the folks in New York have the sense to stand against this. But there’s a lot of liberal pathology going on in New York, so I wouldn’t bet on it.
- New York state set up "border patrol" during portions of the virus to stop COVID spread.
- States have forced "mandates" (not laws) for mask wearing on citizens. Remember, these are not laws, they are dictates.
- States and Counties have arbitrarily closed businesses while deeming others essential - Tom Wolfe's furniture business was deemed essential, while restaurants were closed.
- Our fear that vaccination papers will be required to travel is coming. The rumor is now a very large wave of discussion that this will be likely.
Then there is this. New York is proposing a bill that would allow them to detain you on a whim if they believe you have the virus OR came in contact with someone who did.
Nothing at all scary here, right? Right???
They are using "In the Name of Public Safety" to skirt the Constitution at every turn.
---------------------
New York Bill Allows for State to Detain You If You Are 'Carrier' of Virus or Contact With Carrier
The bill A416, obviously meant to deal with the Wuhan virus, allows for the detention of any carrier of a disease (or contacts that person has had) to be detained in a medical facility or “other apporpriate facility or premises designated by the governor.” The governor or his designee can simply have anyone locked up under this if he puts out the order. Talk about troubling and dangerous. Read this.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This is a bill up for consideration in New York State in regards to COVID-19.<br><br>Read every word of this and tell me what you think of it: <a href="https://t.co/mCkwgwPemJ">pic.twitter.com/mCkwgwPemJ</a></p>— Dr. David Samadi, MD (@drdavidsamadi) <a href="https://twitter.com/drdavidsamadi/status/1345346921616044032?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 2, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
The language is so ambiguous it can give license to lock up anyone, even those without illness, if they just had “contact” with someone who might have been ill and “cases” could mean anything including asymptomatic people.
This isn’t even close to being constitutional and violates almost everything you can imagine.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This is straight up detention camp stuff in NY! A Bill giving <a href="https://twitter.com/NYGovCuomo?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@NYGovCuomo</a>, Health Commissioner or any “designated” official full “power” to remove any person/group of people from their home if deemed contagious. It’s horrifying. Wake up NY & Fight! A416 <a href="https://t.co/mU2cWDm1oD">https://t.co/mU2cWDm1oD</a></p>— Liz Joy (@LizLemeryJoy) <a href="https://twitter.com/LizLemeryJoy/status/1345406890709295105?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 2, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
The governor can determine, on his own opinion, if you get locked up. And the governor in New York right now is someone who has already proved we should be quite concerned about.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">So disturbing. NY bill allows for the *removal and detention* of anyone who “may be a danger to public health.” Yes, that’s purposely undefined. Yes, it will be used, at least one day, to forcibly remove you or your children from your home for whatever reason the state sees fit. <a href="https://t.co/6fgl0RP8fx">https://t.co/6fgl0RP8fx</a></p>— Allie Beth Stuckey (@conservmillen) <a href="https://twitter.com/conservmillen/status/1345576703620501504?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 3, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">NEW YORK.
<br><br> "THE GOVERNOR... MAY ORDER THE *REMOVAL* AND/OR *DETENTION* OF SUCH A PERSON OR OF A GROUP OF SUCH PERSONS BY ISSUING A SINGLE ORDER.... SUCH PERSON OR GROUP OF PERSONS SHALL BE *DETAINED* IN A MEDICAL FACILITY OR OTHER APPROPRIATE FACILITY"<br><br>Tyranny. Period. <a href="https://t.co/HXQlEsACc4">pic.twitter.com/HXQlEsACc4</a></p>— Kyle Becker (@kylenabecker) <a href="https://twitter.com/kylenabecker/status/1345276991872884737?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 2, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>Commissioner? What happened to a judge? And charges?
Now remember this is just from a virus for which we now have multiple vaccines as well as multiple treatments and is over 99% survivable.
This is what happened in Canada but it could quickly be coming to us, if we let things like the New York bill get through into law.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This is what will be happening in NEW YORK if a newly proposed bill becomes (unconstitutional) "law."<br><br>This is apparently what Gov. Cuomo & other blue state governors want to see in America. Resist!
<a href="https://t.co/zh4i05p5eU">https://t.co/zh4i05p5eU</a></p>— Kyle Becker (@kylenabecker) <a href="https://twitter.com/kylenabecker/status/1345440910381879297?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 2, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>Oh, and in case you think they’re just talking about the virus or even just medical illnesses, maybe not just viruses.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Btw, it would only be a little crazy to remember that "racism" is now a public health crisis too under medicine based in Critical Race Theory. We might see the goalposts move and people could possibly be detained for wrongthink under NY's new concentration camp bill. <a href="https://t.co/fC9NYVbaL8">pic.twitter.com/fC9NYVbaL8</a></p>— James Lindsay, New Year, New Me (@ConceptualJames) <a href="https://twitter.com/ConceptualJames/status/1345567679424454656?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 3, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
It’s why people are sensitive to mask rules, give government an inch and they take far more than a mile. They will take whatever they think they can get away with. That’s how you get to the point of a bill like this.
Hopefully, the folks in New York have the sense to stand against this. But there’s a lot of liberal pathology going on in New York, so I wouldn’t bet on it.
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2014
- Messages
- 5,957
- Reaction score
- 13,548
- Points
- 113
I've said it many times before. There is no doubt when the order is given, our police & our military will go against their oath and turn on the citizens. They won't even question it, they won't even blink. Maybe a handful will refuse but mostly they will bust down your doors. They will confiscate your guns. They will arrest you. They will use overwhelming force. They will round you up. They will relocate you into fenced areas. They will load you onto the boxcars. Sounds crazy to say but, I have zero doubt about it.<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This is what will be happening in NEW YORK if a newly proposed bill becomes (unconstitutional) "law."<br><br>This is apparently what Gov. Cuomo & other blue state governors want to see in America. Resist!
Not sure about the new recruits but military brass my age that are not part of the swamp are totally not onboard with whats going down. Top brass might be but if theres anything that will save the US, I think it will be the military and the police. I want to say they took an oath to uphold the Constitution and as opposed to the politicians and top brass, they will uphold that oath.