This business about healthcare as a human right

[CharlesDavenport]

It's bullshit and ruining the argument for the left. False premise, just like tying protecting the environment to the global warming bunk.

Anything that requires someone else to do something for you isn't a human right. The argument should be that a compassionate society should find a way to provide healthcare for all. That can be argued. The human right crap should be dead in the water.

 

[Vader]

It's bullshit and ruining the argument for the left. False premise, just like tying protecting the environment to the global warming bunk.

Anything the requires someone else to do something for you isn't a human right. The argument should be that a compassionate society should find a way to provide healthcare for all. That can be argued. The human right crap should be dead in the water.

You can never have a right to another man's labor. This is the core of the Bill of Rights and antithetical to socialism and communism.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

It's bullshit and ruining the argument for the left. False premise, just like tying protecting the environment to the global warming bunk.

Anything the requires someone else to do something for you isn't a human right. The argument should be that a compassionate society should find a way to provide healthcare for all. That can be argued. The human right crap should be dead in the water.

All dictators seem to promise free healthcare

 

[Steelworth]

All dictators seem to promise free healthcare

And great literacy programs! N. Korea apparently has a 100% literacy rate with Cuba not far behind at 99.80%!

 

[Ironcitysteelers]

Damn straight.


But, ....**** should be affordable

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

And great literacy programs! N. Korea apparently has a 100% literacy rate with Cuba not far behind at 99.80%!

Those numbers are easy when you just exterminate those who can't read.

 

[Steelr4evr]

And great literacy programs! N. Korea apparently has a 100% literacy rate with Cuba not far behind at 99.80%!

They can read only government produced propaganda. It's something to do while you're starving to death in a work camp because your grandfather got the wrong haircut...high bowl cut,not the government approved bowl cut.

 

[Steelr4evr]

The healthcare industry is a private industry. I have 6 family members who work in healthcare. Some for almost 50 years. Nobody has a right to their labor.

******* Bernie Sanders can eat ****.

 

[Confluence]

It's bullshit and ruining the argument for the left. False premise, just like tying protecting the environment to the global warming bunk.

Anything that requires someone else to do something for you isn't a human right. The argument should be that a compassionate society should find a way to provide healthcare for all. That can be argued. The human right crap should be dead in the water.

What might be the goals of an elevated, wealthy society?

Simple and succinct responses should be easy for educated, experienced folks from an elevated, wealthy society.

Sent from my SM-N950W using Steeler Nation mobile app

 

[CharlesDavenport]

What might be the goals of an elevated, wealthy society?

Simple and succinct responses should be easy for educated, experienced folks from an elevated, wealthy society.

Sent from my SM-N950W using Steeler Nation mobile app

Uncharacteristic misdirection from you. Before we get into your topic, do you believe that healthcare is a human right? Simple and succinct yes or no should be easy for you.

 

[wig]

The argument should be that a compassionate society should find a way to provide healthcare for all.

You want to really really piss a hardcore liberal off? Mention to them that financial support has ALWAYS been one of the many components of the Church. If people REALLY need financial subsidization, the proper thing to do is to go to their local church and submit a request of aid.
Turns out liberals don't like "Asking" for help. They feel as though it should be given to them (by the gubmint) as their God (wait. Sorry. NOT GOD!) given right as human beings.

 

[ZonaBurgh]

Health insurance isn't a right, but it should be competitive for our dollars.

Restricting from who and where insurance can be purchased guarantees higher rates for everyone.

I'd have to look this up, but there must be millions of Americans working in the health care and insurance industries, can you imagine the devastation to these workers if the government were the only option for care?

 

[CharlesDavenport]

You want to really really piss a hardcore liberal off? Mention to them that financial support has ALWAYS been one of the many components of the Church. If people REALLY need financial subsidization, the proper thing to do is to go to their local church and submit a request of aid.
Turns out liberals don't like "Asking" for help. They feel as though it should be given to them (by the gubmint) as their God (wait. Sorry. NOT GOD!) given right as human beings.

Nobody ever talks about the effect of big government on charity. Unless it's going to some rainforest somewhere or to fight imaginary global warming, the left seems to scoff at charity as a legitimate remedy for anything. I think this flows from both the projection of their own charitable instincts, and the fact that effective charity damages the arguments for ever increasing government.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

You want to really really piss a hardcore liberal off? Mention to them that financial support has ALWAYS been one of the many components of the Church. If people REALLY need financial subsidization, the proper thing to do is to go to their local church and submit a request of aid.

Turns out liberals don't like "Asking" for help. They feel as though it should be given to them (by the gubmint) as their God (wait. Sorry. NOT GOD!) given right as human beings.

You jest but this is truth. Liberals are typically anti-religion, as in against worshipping a deity of some sort. Fact is, they are more religious than those on the Right. They don't worship a 'God' per se. Their god is Liberalism. It's Government. It's their cause.

I'm not trying to be coy or witty. It's the absolute truth.

Whittaker Chambers called this out in Witness, nearly a century ago.

"The Communist vision is the vision of man without God." - This is their religion.

"Standing apart from liberal anti-Communists, Chambers forcefully argued that Communism must be rejected in the name of something other than 20thcentury modern liberalism. The Communist vision "is the vision of man's mind displacing God as the creative intelligence of the world. It is the vision of man's liberated mind, by the sole force of its rational intelligence, redirecting man's destiny."

 

[Confluence]

Uncharacteristic misdirection from you. Before we get into your topic, do you believe that healthcare is a human right? Simple and succinct yes or no should be easy for you.

What do you mean misdirection? Simple question.

I'll go first:
A wealthy society should take care of its sick people.

The potential "human rights" of individuals is probably related to their society's economic well being.



Sent from my SM-N950W using Steeler Nation mobile app

 

[Ron Burgundy]

The healthcare industry is a private industry. I have 6 family members who work in healthcare. Some for almost 50 years. Nobody has a right to their labor.

******* Bernie Sanders can eat ****.

No biggie. I'm sure Bernie has a plan to unionize all healthcare workers. They will be paid just fine. Just that not everyone will be able to access healthcare like they think they will.

 

[CharlesDavenport]

What do you mean misdirection? Simple question.

I'll go first:
A wealthy society should take care of its sick people.

The potential "human rights" of individuals is probably related to their society's economic well being.



Sent from my SM-N950W using Steeler Nation mobile app

By misdirection I mean that you used a typical tactic of our liberal friends which is to ignore the point of the post - that healthcare is not a human right - and make a tangential thread to take the conversation where you wanted it to go.

And here is your answer to my yes/no question -

The potential "human rights" of individuals is probably related to their society's economic well being.

I guess we need to keep defining terms, because I don't define human rights as something relative to something else. So please explain what you meant there, including why you used air quotes.

 

[DBS1970]

Access to healthcare is a right.

You do not have a right to force a medical professional to treat you for free and you do not have a right to use the force of government to make me pay for your care. So what Confluence says is wrong on its face except for the most extreme of cases. What invariably happens with over developed “Social Safety Nets” is they become hammocks for the lazy and shiftless.

 

[Stoney]

I wonder what a doctor in Cuba is paid?

 

[madinsomniac]

Healthcare is out of control and honestly we do need to fix it. Profiteering off of it will be ended eventually... there is a happy medium between universal free healthcare for everything and treating illness as a moneymaking scam...

Eliminate middleman insurance layers that only inflate costs

Require business to provide reasonable basic heathcare program

Eliminate all elective procedures from coverage

Adopt the pharmaceutical rules virtually every other first world country uses

Have a medicare plan for anyone who wants it that covers basic treatment for catastrophic disease or injury... anything beyond that is out of pocket.

Offer a huge reward for cures to major diseases, no different than a wanted criminal...

 

[DBS1970]

Madinsomniac,

The problem is government policy creates regional monopolies. Because Federal and state regulations don’t allow me to shop across state lines there is no competition to drive prices down and thanks to coverage mandates I have to pay for OBGYN care and mammograms that I will never use and never needed since I am a man.

More laws will make thins worse. Get the government out of the market.

 

[madinsomniac]

Madinsomniac,

The problem is government policy creates regional monopolies. Because Federal and state regulations don’t allow me to shop across state lines there is no competition to drive prices down and thanks to coverage mandates I have to pay for OBGYN care and mammograms that I will never use and never needed since I am a man.

More laws will make thins worse. Get the government out of the market.

There are absolutely things that need government mandates... pure capitalism doesn’t always work... utilities for instance... deregulation in markets like pa and ohio is leading to catastrophic failures in our near future... or access to waterways.. before government regulations water monopolies caused havok in areas...

People have a right to life... its what conservatives base their anti abortion arguments on and libs base their anti deaths penalties on... the government exists to provide basic protections and this is a basic protection... the issue is that because we don’t limit profit percentages like many other countries, companies gouge us here while providing the same stuff to other countries at a fraction of the cost

Its really no different than the military.. we dont always need it but we all need it to be there.. it’s expensive, but its necessary to have in place and ready in case of a catastrophic event


Obamacare wouldn’t touch the problem that drive up cost... and none of that is medical wages or actual costs... the current system is broke.. but then again to fix it you probably have to fix the absurd tax system first...


Look some sort of heath care for all is coming... it’s inevitable... the question is will it be more hodgepodge malarkey like obamacare... will it be pure everything is free like bernie wants, or will it be a controlled logical system tied to money available, costs pf services, and frequency and severity of the heath event...

 

[SteelChip]

I wonder what a doctor in Cuba is paid?

HAVANA TIMES — The government of Raul Castro adopted a wage hike for doctors working in Cuba that increases the income of the most qualified by more than 150 percent, according to information released today in the official media.

The long awaited measure sees the most highly trained specialists receiving the equivalent of US $60 a month, up from $23. Nevertheless, even with the raise the state sector wages remain very low, reported dpa news.
https://havanatimes.org/news/cuba-raises-mds-salaries-by-up-to-150

 

[Confluence]

Access to healthcare is a right.

You do not have a right to force a medical professional to treat you for free and you do not have a right to use the force of government to make me pay for your care. So what Confluence says is wrong on its face except for the most extreme of cases. What invariably happens with over developed “Social Safety Nets” is they become hammocks for the lazy and shiftless.

Agreed.

i do not like governmental programs, except those like utilities, that deliver regularly used services like power, water, electricity and Amazon prime. And Defence.

Healthcare is a service not unlike the above, with the exception that individuals usually "goto" the health utility, rather than it coming to them.

Charles, wealthier societies are likely to afford their citizens a greater list of human rights, IMO. While I don't like what many folks now call "rights", healthcare as a human right seems clearly above importance than, say, transsexual rights, to me.

Sent from my SM-N950W using Steeler Nation mobile app

 

[Confluence]

HAVANA TIMES — The government of Raul Castro adopted a wage hike for doctors working in Cuba that increases the income of the most qualified by more than 150 percent, according to information released today in the official media.

The long awaited measure sees the most highly trained specialists receiving the equivalent of US $60 a month, up from $23. Nevertheless, even with the raise the state sector wages remain very low, reported dpa news.
https://havanatimes.org/news/cuba-raises-mds-salaries-by-up-to-150

Last time i was in Cuba, I dove (scuba) with a brain surgeon because he could make more as a guide(tips) for gringos than he could doing frontal lobotomies on, say, Hungarians with dementia.

Sent from my SM-N950W using Steeler Nation mobile app