This business about healthcare as a human right

[IndySteel]

frontal lobotomies on, say, Hungarians with dementia.

Sent from my SM-N950W using Steeler Nation mobile app

The amount of electricity required for that particular procedure is cost prohibitive.

 

[CharlesDavenport]

Agreed.

i do not like governmental programs, except those like utilities, that deliver regularly used services like power, water, electricity and Amazon prime. And Defence.

Healthcare is a service not unlike the above, with the exception that individuals usually "goto" the health utility, rather than it coming to them.

Charles, wealthier societies are likely to afford their citizens a greater list of human rights, IMO. While I don't like what many folks now call "rights", healthcare as a human right seems clearly above importance than, say, transsexual rights, to me.

Sent from my SM-N950W using Steeler Nation mobile app

And here is the disconnect. You believe that society bestows human rights. Also, I am not aware of any transsexual specific human right.

 

[DBS1970]

There are absolutely things that need government mandates... pure capitalism doesn’t always work.

Wrong.

Markets self regulate. Problems only arise when someone like you says "there ought to be a law".

 

[Confluence]

The amount of electricity required for that particular procedure is cost prohibitive.

You mean for the high powered microscope?

Sent from my SM-N975U using Steeler Nation mobile app

 

[Confluence]

And here is the disconnect. You believe that society bestows human rights. Also, I am not aware of any transsexual specific human right.

I'll bite: who bestows human rights?
And in case I'm guessing correctly, where can I find this clear communication? If most require an interpreter/translator, that would be society's view, right?

I shouldn't have said anything about trannies, because I know little, other then that some seem to have greater rights than me, at least recently.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Steeler Nation mobile app

 

[IndySteel]

You mean for the high powered microscope?

Sent from my SM-N975U using Steeler Nation mobile app

The voltage required to zap and neutralize the tardation.

 

[Confluence]

The voltage required to zap and neutralize the tardation.

Ok, you mean after they locate the brain.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Steeler Nation mobile app

 

[Djfan]

I'll bite: who bestows human rights?
And in case I'm guessing correctly, where can I find this clear communication? If most require an interpreter/translator, that would be society's view, right?

I shouldn't have said anything about trannies, because I know little, other then that some seem to have greater rights than me, at least recently.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Steeler Nation mobile app

According to the founding fathers, it is your creator who gave them.

 

[CharlesDavenport]

I'll bite: who bestows human rights?
And in case I'm guessing correctly, where can I find this clear communication? If most require an interpreter/translator, that would be society's view, right?

I shouldn't have said anything about trannies, because I know little, other then that some seem to have greater rights than me, at least recently.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Steeler Nation mobile app

Yes, as DJ says, Americans have a foundational belief that is called out in the Declaration of Independence -

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,..

The left will often abuse this language to mean that it is the job of the government to provide these things. It is then an easy leap to start throwing in healthcare, housing, etc., if that is the premise. It is not. The government is there to protect the citizens from having those rights abridged.

 

[CharlesDavenport]

Clarification: When I said "Americans", I should have said "most Americans". For example, Joe Biden believes the answer is "The Thing".
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This is a direct quote from Joe Biden:<br><br>"We hold these truths to be self-evident. All men and women created by the you know, you know the thing."<a href="https://t.co/A0MRpMmIWk">pic.twitter.com/A0MRpMmIWk</a></p>— Steve Guest (@SteveGuest) <a href="https://twitter.com/SteveGuest/status/1234579299652554753?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 2, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Steeltime]

What might be the goals of an elevated, wealthy society?

Simple and succinct responses should be easy for educated, experienced folks from an elevated, wealthy society.

Freedom, security, safety from threats foreign and domestic, clean food and water, and the opportunity to be successful.

That's it.

 

[Steeltime]

What do you mean misdirection? Simple question.

I'll go first: A wealthy society should take care of its sick people.

The potential "human rights" of individuals is probably related to their society's economic well being.

Health care is part of safety. Should a wealthy society take care of its sick people? Of course. Should it do so at the expense of those giving the highly specialized care that is at the core of medical services in modern cultures? No, of course not.

Medical care can be expensive. Medical insurance can be expensive. As Zona has referenced, making the cost of such medical insurance lower is a legitimate goal. Forcing part of our society to give away their labor is not advisable and arguably not consistent with the 13th amendment. What is forcing highly-trained and highly-skilled medical personnel to give away their skills anything other than "involuntary servitude"?

Also, the idea that medical expenses are out of control in the United States is true for some things but absolutely false for others. The costs for certain treatments and drugs have exploded because insurance companies and medical professionals can get the money necessary to stay in business from such resources.

Why the hell do we think a hospital charges $18.00 for one dose of NPH insulin to a patient in the hospital? Because the patient in the next bed is paying nothing, the patient in the next room is on Medicaid and paying $0.60 for the insulin, etc.

So what is the solution? Make medical insurance much more affordable. How? Allow waiting periods for preexisting conditions (insurance policies usually have a 30 or 60-day waiting period for preexisting conditions). Make prescription medications more affordable by allowing for central negotiated authority among policy holders. This is something in Obamacare that made sense and nobody has a problem with. Also, make the FDA approval process much, much, much, much cheaper and faster. The cost for medications already on the market is so high in part because companies are looking to develop the next medication (since patents run out after 7 years) and it is so damn expensive to do so.

Further, Americans pay so much for medical care in large part because we can. Every time I hear a politician say, "The United States spends $10,000 per person per year on medical care, while the United Kingdom pays just $4,400," I want to scream. Would that clown feel better if our citizens spent an additional $5,600 per year on BBQ sauce? Beer? Improvements to the master bath? We spend on medical care because we can.

Finally, we get what we pay for. Basically every medical advancement over the past 50 years - from the CT scan, to MRI's, to cancer medications, to HIV medications, to hypertension medicines, to blood glucose monitors, to cloned insulin for diabetics, to heart medications, to microsurgery, to stem cell research, to laproscopic surgery, to targeted cancer medications, to synthetic blood, to anti-seizure medications, and on and on and on and on - comes from the United States. Look it up if you don't believe me.

Why? Because profit, that's why. Bernie's medical care plan will kill that innovation. Anybody who believes otherwise is simply lying to himself. The UK rations medical care because it has to. You need a hip replacement? Yeah, not happening if you are 87 years old. A long goddamn wait if you are 67. You need cancer surgery? Get in line if you are 65. Get dead if you are 85.

 

[Confluence]

Health care is part of safety. Should a wealthy society take care of its sick people? Of course. Should it do so at the expense of those giving the highly specialized care that is at the core of medical services in modern cultures? No, of course not.

Medical care can be expensive. Medical insurance can be expensive. As Zona has referenced, making the cost of such medical insurance lower is a legitimate goal. Forcing part of our society to give away their labor is not advisable and arguably not consistent with the 13th amendment. What is forcing highly-trained and highly-skilled medical personnel to give away their skills anything other than "involuntary servitude"?

Also, the idea that medical expenses are out of control in the United States is true for some things but absolutely false for others. The costs for certain treatments and drugs have exploded because insurance companies and medical professionals can get the money necessary to stay in business from such resources.

Why the hell do we think a hospital charges $18.00 for one dose of NPH insulin to a patient in the hospital? Because the patient in the next bed is paying nothing, the patient in the next room is on Medicaid and paying $0.60 for the insulin, etc.

So what is the solution? Make medical insurance much more affordable. How? Allow waiting periods for preexisting conditions (insurance policies usually have a 30 or 60-day waiting period for preexisting conditions). Make prescription medications more affordable by allowing for central negotiated authority among policy holders. This is something in Obamacare that made sense and nobody has a problem with. Also, make the FDA approval process much, much, much, much cheaper and faster. The cost for medications already on the market is so high in part because companies are looking to develop the next medication (since patents run out after 7 years) and it is so damn expensive to do so.

Further, Americans pay so much for medical care in large part because we can. Every time I hear a politician say, "The United States spends $10,000 per person per year on medical care, while the United Kingdom pays just $4,400," I want to scream. Would that clown feel better if our citizens spent an additional $5,600 per year on BBQ sauce? Beer? Improvements to the master bath? We spend on medical care because we can.

Finally, we get what we pay for. Basically every medical advancement over the past 50 years - from the CT scan, to MRI's, to cancer medications, to HIV medications, to hypertension medicines, to blood glucose monitors, to cloned insulin for diabetics, to heart medications, to microsurgery, to stem cell research, to laproscopic surgery, to targeted cancer medications, to synthetic blood, to anti-seizure medications, and on and on and on and on - comes from the United States. Look it up if you don't believe me.

Why? Because profit, that's why. Bernie's medical care plan will kill that innovation. Anybody who believes otherwise is simply lying to himself. The UK rations medical care because it has to. You need a hip replacement? Yeah, not happening if you are 87 years old. A long goddamn wait if you are 67. You need cancer surgery? Get in line if you are 65. Get dead if you are 85.

Lots of words, not much that relates to my experience.

In the main, healthcare is about the societal distribution of medical services.

Yes, it's different around the edges.

The rest is hyperbole

Sent from my SM-N975U using Steeler Nation mobile app