This happened last time we went to Ford Field.

[SteelerInLebanon]

You guys get ready and buckle up for the Detroit game. Strap yinz-self in it is going to be a bumpy ride.View attachment 15922

AS long as no one jumps off the see saw while we are in the air.

 

[slashsteel]

AS long as no one jumps off the see saw while we are in the air.

That would be just rude.

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

That would be just rude.

Last 5 games last year was that feeling.

 

[steelhurt]

I am not "defending Tomlin" I am calling out your bullshit. This is your quote above, and I directly refuted this. You then started waffling on the criteria. Period. As I said there are many valid criticisms you can make of Tomlin, but this one is total bullshit over the last few years. He has played rookies regularly and they have made an impact. He has also worked with guys Like Cook, and they are now making an impact. Pierre is another guy that has developed under Tomlin. So please spare me the bullshit narratives.

I quoted you.

Then quote correctly! Show me where I said Tomlin doesn’t play rookies.
I did say the lack of rookies being developed and playing but that is not the same as never plays rookies.
You’re reading into something to support your narrative of being a Tomlin lover.

 

[Avoid_Lloyd]

"You’re actually going to go on record saying this idiot Tomlin develops and plays rookies?"


Is this not you saying he doesn't play rookies? If he is playing rookies how can you make the statement he doesn't develop them? Again, I showed plenty of rookies who have played and some who were later developed into contributors or starters. Tomlin has his faults but not developing players is in my opinion total bullshit created by fans who just want something more to ***** about.

I showed you plenty of evidence and yes, I will go on record and say Tomlin has developed players and has played rookies. Particularly in the last few years.

If you look at the recent drafts and set the litmus test of has he developed into a starter on most other teams Tomlin has badly failed:

Failures: Najee, Pickett, Jones, Roman Wilson, Leal, Greene, Moore, Claypool, Dotson, Bush, Deiante Johnson

Borderline/too early to tell: Harmon, Black, Fautanu, Porter Jr.

Successes: Frazier, Friermuth (if he was on the market today not so much since Tomlin has burried him for Janu Smith who has been very disappointing)

Frazier and Friermuth are the only guys in the last 6 years who I would say other teams would covet and offer significant money to if they were on the market today besides some of this rookie class that no one can say for sure about yet or Fautanu who has been big time injury proned in college and the pros.

How many of our draft picks in the last 10 years have been lured away in free agency by other teams offering big money to or have gotten a big contract to stay because they earned it: Watt, Bud Dupree. Thats 2 guys in TEN YEARS

And please don’t come back with your tired trope of the draft is a crapshoot…Bill Cowher and Chuck Noll built this franchise on players they drafted and developed, along with great assistants who would get hired away because they developed players, which Tomlin has none of. Yes Noll coached before the free agent era but not Cowher.

One of the reasons we have all this cap space the last couple of seasons is because the guys we drafted aren’t worth signing to a lucrative 2nd contract thus the introduction of the Mike Tomlin retirement home program in free agency

Tomlin and his yes man staff suck at player development. Tomlin should have been fired years ago. full stop

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

If you look at the recent drafts and set the litmus test of has he developed into a starter on most other teams Tomlin has badly failed:

Failures: Najee, Pickett, Jones, Roman Wilson, Leal, Greene, Moore, Claypool, Dotson, Bush, Deiante Johnson

Borderline/too early to tell: Harmon, Black, Fautanu, Porter Jr.

Successes: Frazier, Friermuth (if he was on the market today not so much since Tomlin has burried him for Janu Smith who has been very disappointing)

Frazier and Friermuth are the only guys in the last 6 years who I would say other teams would covet and offer significant money to if they were on the market today besides some of this rookie class that no one can say for sure about yet or Fautanu who has been big time injury proned in college and the pros.

How many of our draft picks in the last 6 years have been lured away in free agency by other teams offering big money to: 0

And please don’t come back with your tired trope of the draft is a crapshoot

Bill Cowher and Chuck Noll build this franchise on players they drafted and developed, along with great assistants who would get hired away because they developed players, which Tomlin has none of. Yes Noll coached before the free agent era but not Cowher.

One of the reasons we have all this cap space the last couple of seasons is because the guys we drafted aren’t worth signing to a lucrative 2nd contract thus the introduction of the Mike Tomlin retirement home program in free agency

Tomlin and his yes man staff suck at player development. Tomlin should have been fired years ago. full stop

Lol.. the draft is a crap shoot (had to say it ). Moore was a fourth rounder who developed into a starter and was a prized free agent who will net us a nice pick. Even if we don't like him. Cook is looking a guy that developed. Porter is developing nicely. He has come a long way in run coverage. Jones was developing when he got hurt. Pierre has developed. Najee started and played well. Never a super star but not bad. I never consider RB a failure for not getting a new deal. They just cost too much in most cases for what they are worth. Many are just 4 to 5 year rentals. I look at plenty of other teams and see plenty of players who never develop under good coaches. I just think of all the Tomlin bashing this one is overblown. Players like Hilton were brough drafted and developed. Pat Meyers this year has our line in the top 5 pass blocking meaning they are all developing as pass blockers. I still don't love his run blocking scheme, but we can't say they haven't developed and become better as a group. Hell, even Fields played better here than elsewhere and looked more developed than other stops.

Look I am not saying Tomlin is great developing players I just don't think he is any worse than average at it and our proximity bias blinds us to the realities every team faces with these guys. If we want to ***** about Tomlin, his choices on DC and OC are legitimate along with his understandable at times but maddening penchant to be too conservative. We looked much better Monday being more aggressive to a degree. We suffered that against the Lions a few years back with Mason at the helm for Ben in a surprise start and he played well but the call were all too conservative and it cost us. Developing players is not my biggest concern with him. Frankly it is a concern league wide, particularly at QB.

 

[Avoid_Lloyd]

Lol.. the draft is a crap shoot (had to say it ). Moore was a fourth rounder who developed into a starter and was a prized free agent who will net us a nice pick. Even if we don't like him. Cook is looking a guy that developed. Porter is developing nicely. He has come a long way in run coverage. Jones was developing when he got hurt. Pierre has developed. Najee started and played well. Never a super star but not bad. I never consider RB a failure for not getting a new deal. They just cost too much in most cases for what they are worth. Many are just 4 to 5 year rentals. I look at plenty of other teams and see plenty of players who never develop under good coaches. I just think of all the Tomlin bashing this one is overblown. Players like Hilton were brough drafted and developed. Pat Meyers this year has our line in the top 5 pass blocking meaning they are all developing as pass blockers. I still don't love his run blocking scheme, but we can't say they haven't developed and become better as a group. Hell, even Fields played better here than elsewhere and looked more developed than other stops.

Look I am not saying Tomlin is great developing players I just don't think he is any worse than average at it and our proximity bias blinds us to the realities every team faces with these guys. If we want to ***** about Tomlin, his choices on DC and OC are legitimate along with his understandable at times but maddening penchant to be too conservative. We looked much better Monday being more aggressive to a degree. We suffered that against the Lions a few years back with Mason at the helm for Ben in a surprise start and he played well but the call were all too conservative and it cost us. Developing players is not my biggest concern with him. Frankly it is a concern league wide, particularly at QB.

Jones has been terrible most of this season and all of last season …please

I’ll give you Moore, we didn’t think enough him to make that offer tho

Pierre could be good, too bad our moron head coach burried him behind geriatric Darius Slay most of the year another terrible player development move

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

Then quote correctly! Show me where I said Tomlin doesn’t play rookies.
I did say the lack of rookies being developed and playing but that is not the same as never plays rookies.
You’re reading into something to support your narrative of being a Tomlin lover.

I did, you said develop AND PLAY, not sure how else to translate that. You don't insult me when you try to by calling me a Tomlin lover. I think he has been a mostly great coach but with flaws. I still wouldn't trade him for the majority of coaches in this league right now maybe three at best. I will even stand behind many of the critiques of his coaching like being too conservative and sticking with coordinators too long. I wouldn't be crushed if he decided to hang up the whistle, but I also don't want him fired outright. I happen to disagree with you and others on him being bad at development. As I told Avoid-Lloyd I think he is no worse than average, not bad. He isn't a guru, but he is not the worst. He has had some nice successes and also some failures.

Jones has been terrible most of this season and all of last season …please

I’ll give you Moore, we didn’t think enough him to make that offer tho

Pierre could be good, too bad our moron head coach burried him behind geriatric Darius Slay most of the year another terrible player development move

Moore has been inconsistent not terrible. He has shown at times why he was drafted. He is still pretty young and I think he could still be good. I get the decision to start Slay over Pierre at the time sadly time always wins. Pierre used to be too inconsistent, and he has improved that. Let's give Tomlin at least some credit for making the switch and committing to it by releasing Slay. In past years he may not have done that so quickly. HE has been a better coach at times this year. Particularly last week. It helps when he doesn't feel he has to control his QB's too much and can trust them.

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

Then quote correctly! Show me where I said Tomlin doesn’t play rookies.
I did say the lack of rookies being developed and playing but that is not the same as never plays rookies.
You’re reading into something to support your narrative of being a Tomlin lover.

I apologize if it wasn't what you meant but it is basically what you said. I still disagree on the developing part being terrible versus average, as I stated a few minutes ago, but it is at least debatable, the playing part isn't, at least recently.

 

[BLITZ]

Anyone remember the 45-3 Thanksgiving day beat down? 1983 or 84? Let's avoid that.

 

[Avoid_Lloyd]

I did, you said develop AND PLAY, not sure how else to translate that. You don't insult me when you try to by calling me a Tomlin lover. I think he has been a mostly great coach but with flaws. I still wouldn't trade him for the majority of coaches in this league right now maybe three at best. I will even stand behind many of the critiques of his coaching like being too conservative and sticking with coordinators too long. I wouldn't be crushed if he decided to hang up the whistle, but I also don't want him fired outright. I happen to disagree with you and others on him being bad at development. As I told Avoid-Lloyd I think he is no worse than average, not bad. He isn't a guru, but he is not the worst. He has had some nice successes and also some failures.

Moore has been inconsistent not terrible. He has shown at times why he was drafted. He is still pretty young and I think he could still be good. I get the decision to start Slay over Pierre at the time sadly time always wins. Pierre used to be too inconsistent, and he has improved that. Let's give Tomlin at least some credit for making the switch and committing to it by releasing Slay. In past years he may not have done that so quickly. HE has been a better coach at times this year. Particularly last week. It helps when he doesn't feel he has to control his QB's too much and can trust them.

So we give him credit for trusting a first ballot hall of famer QB in Rodgers-wow that’s quite the feather in his cap. Too bad he wouldn’t trust another 1st Ballot HOF in Ben at the end of his career….or not until they were down by double digits in the 4th quarter

What a bright future we have to look ahead under Tomlin if the only QB he trusts is named Aaron Rodgers…hooray!

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

So we give him credit for trusting a first ballot hall of famer QB in Rodgers-wow that’s quite the feather in his cap. Too bad he wouldn’t trust another 1st Ballot HOF in Ben at the end of his career….or not until they were down by double digits in the 4th quarter

What a bright future we have to look ahead under Tomlin if the only QB he trusts is named Aaron Rodgers…hooray!

You know I try to be glass half full, at least he IS trusting him. Let's see what happens the next 3 to 7 weeks. Hopefully we are still arguing about live games in that time frame.

 

[steelhurt]

I apologize if it wasn't what you meant but it is basically what you said. I still disagree on the developing part being terrible versus average, as I stated a few minutes ago, but it is at least debatable, the playing part isn't, at least recently.

You disagree and that’s fine. Let’s leave it at that!

 

[steelhurt]

I did, you said develop AND PLAY, not sure how else to translate that. You don't insult me when you try to by calling me a Tomlin lover. I think he has been a mostly great coach but with flaws. I still wouldn't trade him for the majority of coaches in this league right now maybe three at best. I will even stand behind many of the critiques of his coaching like being too conservative and sticking with coordinators too long. I wouldn't be crushed if he decided to hang up the whistle, but I also don't want him fired outright. I happen to disagree with you and others on him being bad at development. As I told Avoid-Lloyd I think he is no worse than average, not bad. He isn't a guru, but he is not the worst. He has had some nice successes and also some failures.

Moore has been inconsistent not terrible. He has shown at times why he was drafted. He is still pretty young and I think he could still be good. I get the decision to start Slay over Pierre at the time sadly time always wins. Pierre used to be too inconsistent, and he has improved that. Let's give Tomlin at least some credit for making the switch and committing to it by releasing Slay. In past years he may not have done that so quickly. HE has been a better coach at times this year. Particularly last week. It helps when he doesn't feel he has to control his QB's too much and can trust them.

I think we should leave this alone. I can’t support mostly great coach with flaws.
My definition of great is different than yours.
Chuck Noll was great because he built a dynasty. Tom Landry was great, Vince Lombardi, Joe Gibbs,
Don Correal(spelling) Don Shula, Andy Reid, all great coaches but sorry amigo, I just cannot put Tomlin as a great coach,
He’s built nothing and has zero coaching tree!
Good motivator, more wins than losses, both good things but that’s where it ends for me.
We have become a slightly better than average franchise never good enough to compete with the elite teams and not bad enough to draft top ten.
I want more and he’s not the guy that can do that.
He’s on QB no 6 since Ben retired four seasons ago and this years results resemble so many from the past.
Time for Tomlin to move on now!

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

I think we should leave this alone. I can’t support mostly great coach with flaws.
My definition of great is different than yours.
Chuck Noll was great because he built a dynasty. Tom Landry was great, Vince Lombardi, Joe Gibbs,
Don Correal(spelling) Don Shula, Andy Reid, all great coaches but sorry amigo, I just cannot put Tomlin as a great coach,
He’s built nothing and has zero coaching tree!
Good motivator, more wins than losses, both good things but that’s where it ends for me.
We have become a slightly better than average franchise never good enough to compete with the elite teams and not bad enough to draft top ten.
I want more and he’s not the guy that can do that.
He’s on QB no 6 since Ben retired four seasons ago and this years results resemble so many from the past.
Time for Tomlin to move on now!

As I said if we wants to retire fine. But I am not one to want him outright fired. I would rather we just win it all this year.

 

[steelhurt]

As I said if we wants to retire fine. But I am not one to want him outright fired. I would rather we just win it all this year.

You know as well as everyone on this planet he’s not getting fired.
He’s got as much chance of getting fired by Rooney as he does winning a SB.

 

[BLITZ]

who would have thought today topped ths