Today in mass shootings

[Superman]

and Bernie wants us to call 911 if we see someone bring a gun into their home.

**** the 2nd Amendment by voting for Bernie.

 

[Turd Ferguson]

Shhhh....you can buy M72 LAW rocket tubes on ebay.

 

[Troglodyte]

if we were to hear any Christian wanting the complete and total annihilation and destruction of America and the deaths of ALL Americans (not just those who lean towards Conservative), then the 1st Amendment would be repealed faster than you could fap to Charlize Theron getting it on with Kate Beckinsale.

Isn't that what the Rev, Jeremiah Wright was doing? Or was that just conservatives?

 

[Superman]

Isn't that what the Rev, Jeremiah Wright was doing? Or was that just conservatives?

how very interesting that you mention him. who's the most cherished member of his flock? Barry Someone.

 

[ark steel]

Shhhh....you can buy M72 LAW rocket tubes on ebay.

Not going to do that search, I'm on enough lists already.

 

[Rod Farva]

So the 2nd amendment applies to any and all arms, but the 1st amendment only applies to some religions?

Is that what I said? Re-read it.

Not going to do that search, I'm on enough lists already.

*****

 

[Ron Burgundy]

It's a great concept. But the reality will be Pooky and Lil Nuck Nuck shooting at each other across the playground with high explosive rounds. Many innocent bystanders will perish in the ensuing festival of shrapnel. Mass shootings and terrorist attacks will be FAR more deadly if high explosive ordnance becomes readily available. Have you considered this, and what is your solution to such an eventuality?

 

[Superman]

Not going to do that search, I'm on enough lists already.

that's why you search from behind your work's firewall.

 

[ark steel]

Then there is this:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/judge-upholds-seattle-gun-violence-tax/

Requiring a $5 or $10 for a state ID to vote is a violation of your rights.

I wonder who can less afford these extra taxes? Is it the millionaire or the average joe who likes to go to the range once a month?

The only other city with such a measure? The non-violent Mecca of Cook County, IL, which includes the Haven of Safety and Peace, Chicago. Clearly, these kinds of measures work.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

Then there is this:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/judge-upholds-seattle-gun-violence-tax/

Requiring a $5 or $10 for a state ID to vote is a violation of your rights.

I wonder who can less afford these extra taxes? Is it the millionaire or the average joe who likes to go to the range once a month?

The only other city with such a measure? The non-violent Mecca of Cook County, IL, which includes the Haven of Safety and Peace, Chicago. Clearly, these kinds of measures work.

I'll let Yoda address you for me.

 

[Steel Vanguard]

Up to Nukes. TMBs are a strategic weapon. If me Ark and Supe weren't pacifists then we should be able to go in together on a 120mm mortar or field gun.

Again fixing the gun violence and most of the criminality problem can be solved really simply.

1 )Eliminate gun free zones.

2 )Stop paying women to have children out of wedlock. Gangs provide the structure that kids need in the absence of family structure.
http://enginelaboftampa.com

3 )End the drug war and remove the profit motive from what has given rise to gang violence.

I agree with all three of these remedies, and I'll get to the issue of explosive ordnance in a moment.

are you aware that there is a black market for this stuff? are you aware that you can purchase "high explosive ordnance"?

Yes, but not nearly in the kind of volume possible if you were to make grenades, mortars, and landmines as readily available as small arms are now.

I can live with people owning weapons of war. I don't particularly care if you're keeping a crate of claymores in your basement. But when those weapons filter down to the street in large numbers and people are being slaughtered by them, what will be your remedy? Imagine these recent attacks with the added kick of RPGs and trip wired claymore mines to kill people trying to run away. Don't just give some glib superficial bullshit answer, really think about that situation being real. Because that is what you are proposing.

There is a real and pragmatic reason for opposing PRISM. Your ability to speak freely is chilled by fear you could be overheard. Fear that your words could not just be used against you if you're guilty of something, but misconstrued or worse yet intentionally taken out of context if you're innocent. That is why domestic spying is immoral and why it violates the 1st and 4th Amendments.

What practical need is there for weapons of war? Even if you had them, you don't have anywhere near the strategic or tactical infrastructure needed to deploy them effectively against US military forces. Drones, Hellfire missiles, cruise missiles, stealth technology. Citizens could never compete against our current military capabilities. And the DOWN side of making explosive ordnance readily available would me extreme mass killing, the likes of which we've only seen in places like Baghdad and Kabul.

Seriously think this one through.

but, instead, cling to your misguided fairy tale that anyone and everyone in office is looking out for YOUR best interest. These ******* make 2-3 times what the average constituent makes, and have no idea what it may be like to clip coupons out of the Sunday paper and make your shopping list around that so you can afford to pay the light bill.

This is all ate up with assumption. I don't believe a damn thing anyone says unless it's backed up with evidence. Politicians especially. In fact, I can't name a single politician in office that I would have voted for. Civil Libertarians don't really have alot of allies in politics.

Then there is this:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/judge-upholds-seattle-gun-violence-tax/

Requiring a $5 or $10 for a state ID to vote is a violation of your rights.

I wonder who can less afford these extra taxes? Is it the millionaire or the average joe who likes to go to the range once a month?

The only other city with such a measure? The non-violent Mecca of Cook County, IL, which includes the Haven of Safety and Peace, Chicago. Clearly, these kinds of measures work.

Behavior taxes violate the letter of Constitutional law and the spirit of the Declaration of Independence. The government should not be taxing people's interests or behaviors. As such, soda taxes, gas taxes, cigarette taxes, gun taxes, luxury taxes, or any other superfluous taxes above and beyond a flat sales tax are unjust. The government has no business telling citizens HOW to spend their money.

 

[ark steel]

Even if you had them, you don't have anywhere near the strategic or tactical infrastructure needed to deploy them effectively against US military forces. Drones, Hellfire missiles, cruise missiles, stealth technology.

The folks in the ME seemed to do pretty well with inferior weaponry. Afghanistan, I think, has a better home field advantage than a lot of places, though. Even the ruskies could do much there.

In any event, your presumption seems to be that the entire military would turn on the population. That may be true, for some, but, I'd bet the majority would not and, in fact, would help protect the population.

 

[ark steel]

Behavior taxes violate the letter of Constitutional law and the spirit of the Declaration of Independence. The government should not be taxing people's interests or behaviors. As such, soda taxes, gas taxes, cigarette taxes, gun taxes, luxury taxes, or any other superfluous taxes above and beyond a flat sales tax are unjust. The government has no business telling citizens HOW to spend their money.

I can agree with this, in general. While I am against the idea of "sin taxes", such as those on soda, alcohol, cigarettes, i don't think it is outside the localities powers to impose them. I think it is ridiculous. I would lump this in with the rush to make all these public places smoke free. At a local level, it is easier to replace people who make stupid decisions. Again, in general.

 

[deljzc]

I have hated "sin taxes" for most of my adult life. Never really understood the logic because to me it taxes the middle-to-low income families on an unfair level. Rich people can smoke and buy alcohol, but poor people can't? That's what a tax says.

I find it very disingenuous when government says something is bad for us (especially those things addicting) yet keeps them legal (because of lobbies and big donors) and decides instead to try and "tax them into illegality". They did it with cigarettes. Some places are doing it to abortions. It makes complete sense to do it to guns/ammo if your political conviction is to get rid of guns. If you can't win the fight to make something illegal, maybe you can win the fight to tax it over and over again. Politics 101.

And remember, behavior taxes go both ways. We give "tax credits" for all sorts of things the government wants us to do: buy houses and put our kids into college are two big examples.

 

[Troglodyte]

Behavior taxes violate the letter of Constitutional law and the spirit of the Declaration of Independence. The government should not be taxing people's interests or behaviors. As such, soda taxes, gas taxes, cigarette taxes, gun taxes, luxury taxes, or any other superfluous taxes above and beyond a flat sales tax are unjust. The government has no business telling citizens HOW to spend their money.

Uh, YES they do! That's what ALL taxes are, not just behavior taxes.

If you're against behavior taxes, that's fine, just be consistent and also be opposed to the government giving free **** to people as well (Medicare, Medicaid, food stamps, etc.) This country currently pays for people to make themselves morbidly obese and then pays to treat their obesity. That's ******* insane.

 

[Troglodyte]

I have hated "sin taxes" for most of my adult life. Never really understood the logic because to me it taxes the middle-to-low income families on an unfair level. Rich people can smoke and buy alcohol, but poor people can't? That's what a tax says.

We're the only country with fat poor people who watch cable TV all day. Oh, how unfair!

So not only should we pay for their food and healthcare because that's fair, they should also be able to easily afford to consume things that are bad for them and will make them sick?**** that kind of fairness!

 

[Superman]

I agree with all three of these remedies, and I'll get to the issue of explosive ordnance in a moment.




Yes, but not nearly in the kind of volume possible if you were to make grenades, mortars, and landmines as readily available as small arms are now.

I can live with people owning weapons of war. I don't particularly care if you're keeping a crate of claymores in your basement. But when those weapons filter down to the street in large numbers and people are being slaughtered by them, what will be your remedy? Imagine these recent attacks with the added kick of RPGs and trip wired claymore mines to kill people trying to run away. Don't just give some glib superficial bullshit answer, really think about that situation being real. Because that is what you are proposing.

There is a real and pragmatic reason for opposing PRISM. Your ability to speak freely is chilled by fear you could be overheard. Fear that your words could not just be used against you if you're guilty of something, but misconstrued or worse yet intentionally taken out of context if you're innocent. That is why domestic spying is immoral and why it violates the 1st and 4th Amendments.

What practical need is there for weapons of war? Even if you had them, you don't have anywhere near the strategic or tactical infrastructure needed to deploy them effectively against US military forces. Drones, Hellfire missiles, cruise missiles, stealth technology. Citizens could never compete against our current military capabilities. And the DOWN side of making explosive ordnance readily available would me extreme mass killing, the likes of which we've only seen in places like Baghdad and Kabul.

Seriously think this one through.




This is all ate up with assumption. I don't believe a damn thing anyone says unless it's backed up with evidence. Politicians especially. In fact, I can't name a single politician in office that I would have voted for. Civil Libertarians don't really have alot of allies in politics.




Behavior taxes violate the letter of Constitutional law and the spirit of the Declaration of Independence. The government should not be taxing people's interests or behaviors. As such, soda taxes, gas taxes, cigarette taxes, gun taxes, luxury taxes, or any other superfluous taxes above and beyond a flat sales tax are unjust. The government has no business telling citizens HOW to spend their money.

could you let me know the next time Claymores are used to injure/wound/kill Americans?
I believe the last explosive device detonated on our soil was made from Crock-Pots. Do you want to ban Crock-Pots?

 

[ark steel]

We're the only country with fat poor people who watch cable TV all day. Oh, how unfair!

So not only should we pay for their food and healthcare because that's fair, they should also be able to easily afford to consume things that are bad for them and will make them sick?**** that kind of fairness!

Well, most of us evil conservatives don't think everyone should pay for the food and health care of people who make bad decisions.

 

[ark steel]

Uh, YES they do! That's what ALL taxes are, not just behavior taxes.

If you're against behavior taxes, that's fine, just be consistent and also be opposed to the government giving free **** to people as well (Medicare, Medicaid, food stamps, etc.) This country currently pays for people to make themselves morbidly obese and then pays to treat their obesity. That's ******* insane.

And gives them free needles to help with their drug taking and treats them, for free, for the damage those drugs do to their bodies. All the while fighting a War on Drugs. ....

The cigarette tax is the worst. Every level of government decries the evils of tobacco, marginalize those who use tobacco and, then, gleefully, rakes in the dough produced by those users.

 

[Troglodyte]

Well, most of us evil conservatives don't think everyone should pay for the food and health care of people who make bad decisions.

Including Medicare? Name the candidate.

 

[ark steel]

Including Medicare? Name the candidate.

I believe Rand Paul. Any attempt by a conservative type to simply slow the growth of Medicare is branded an evil person that wants people to die. Not cut, slow the growth.

Most of the Tea Party candidates, to my knowledge, opposed the extension of Medicare that was part of Obamacare. All are EVIL.

 

[Troglodyte]

The cigarette tax is the worst. Every level of government decries the evils of tobacco, marginalize those who use tobacco and, then, gleefully, rakes in the dough produced by those users.

But at least they warn you not to do it. Sin taxes may be unconventional, but I'd rather be taxed on stuff I don't need than my income and my property.

 

[Superman]

doesnt matter if you NEED it or not
if I want it, and this is still a free country, i should be able to get it.

 

[Troglodyte]

doesnt matter if you NEED it or not
if I want it, and this is still a free country, i should be able to get it.

Need does matter. You can avoid sin taxes, you can't really avoid income and property taxes.

 

[Steel Vanguard]

could you let me know the next time Claymores are used to injure/wound/kill Americans?
I believe the last explosive device detonated on our soil was made from Crock-Pots. Do you want to ban Crock-Pots?

This is exactly what I'm getting at. High explosive ordnance is VERY hard to come by under current restrictions. You and others in this thread are proposing LIFTING those restrictions. Having done that, anyone with a valid ID and no recorded criminal history could simply walk into their local Wal Mart and buy RPGs and Claymores. This is the logical conclusion to your proposal. Should that come to pass, YES, lots of these weapons would fall into irresponsible hands and be used for nefarious purposes.

So my question stands: if you make high explosive ordnance readily and easily available for public consumption, what is your plan to keep these weapons from being used for mass murder?