Tomlin And Challenges

[SteelBuckeye]

As we know, Mike Tomlin threw the challenge flag last weekend on a catch by Chief's TE Travis Kelce. Tomlin possibly believed that Kelce didn't maintain control of the ball through the catch. Upon review, the play stood. Catch by Kelce. This led some on the board to mutter the oft-repeated phrases that Tomlin "isn't any good at determining when to challenge" and/or "is terrible at challenges".
Apparently, that viewpoint is unsubstantiated. While reading an article at BTSC, I was directed to a link regarding the the best and worst records in terms of challenges by active NFL Head Coaches. Apparently, at the time the article was written (September of this year), Tomlin had the best record in terms of percentage of challenges won of any active Head Coach in the league with more than 50 challenge flags thrown, winning %54.5 of his challenges.

http://news.sportsinteraction.com/sports/nfl-football/nfl-coachs-challenge-best-and-worst-records-when-the-flag-is-thrown-83188/

Interesting that the myth does not reflect the reality.

 

[Ironcitysteelers]

****, refs don't get calls right "after" reviews clearly shows otherwise. Twats are just guessing.

 

[papillon]

As we know, Mike Tomlin threw the challenge flag last weekend on a catch by Chief's TE Travis Kelce. Tomlin possibly believed that Kelce didn't maintain control of the ball through the catch. Upon review, the play stood. Catch by Kelce. This led some on the board to mutter the oft-repeated phrases that Tomlin "isn't any good at determining when to challenge" and/or "is terrible at challenges".
Apparently, that viewpoint is unsubstantiated. While reading an article at BTSC, I was directed to a link regarding the the best and worst records in terms of challenges by active NFL Head Coaches. Apparently, at the time the article was written (September of this year), Tomlin had the best record in terms of percentage of challenges won of any active Head Coach in the league with more than 50 challenge flags thrown, winning %54.5 of his challenges.

http://news.sportsinteraction.com/sports/nfl-football/nfl-coachs-challenge-best-and-worst-records-when-the-flag-is-thrown-83188/

Interesting that the myth does not reflect the reality.

Some fans just have to ***** about everything that can be associated to Mike Tomlin. When he won the Super Bowl, its with Cowher's players, when they win games its because of Haley, Lebeau and the players, when they lose its Tomlin's fault, no discipline, too nice, etc. the man will never do anything right in some fans eyes. The challenge flag is just another in the ever growing litany of transgressions that Mike Tomlin makes daily. Although I will say while his success percentage ranks very high, there are times when it seems he should challenge and doesn't, which won't show up as win or a loss.

Papillon

 

[SteelBuckeye]

Some fans just have to ***** about everything that can be associated to Mike Tomlin. When he won the Super Bowl, its with Cowher's players, when they win games its because of Haley, Lebeau and the players, when they lose its Tomlin's fault, no discipline, too nice, etc. the man will never do anything right in some fans eyes. The challenge flag is just another in the ever growing litany of transgressions that Mike Tomlin makes daily. Although I will say while his success percentage ranks very high, there are times when it seems he should challenge and doesn't, which won't show up as win or a loss.

Papillon

I agree with your assessment that there are times when he should challenge and doesn't. There have definitely been times when I've been shocked the flag didn't come out.

 

[GILBERT]

I didn't disagree with the challenge. I originally thought it was a catch. The more I listen to commentators, the more I get confused by the rules. This play and the next (fumble), the commentators and expert official back in studio disagreed. What is a coach do do?

 

[slashsteel]

I think Tomlin was liked early but loss after loss to bottom feeding teams and two years of being out of the playoffs came deserved criticism.

As the Steelers started to win you saw less and less Tomlin bashing.

Not a hard concept to follow. You put them in the best position to win, good things.

If not ,,,,,, obviously not so much good chatter, chatters.

 

[F83]

I think Tomlin was liked early but loss after loss to bottom feeding teams and two years of being out of the playoffs came deserved criticism.

As the Steelers started to win you saw less and less Tomlin bashing.

Not a hard concept to follow. You put them in the best position to win, good things.

If not ,,,,,, obviously not so much good chatter, chatters.

losing to bad teams a key component is and has been the lousy DB's Kolbert has supplying him with, it looks he really got lucky with thew signing of Mccain

 

[Wingman]

losing to bad teams a key component is and has been the lousy DB's Kolbert has supplying him with, it looks he really got lucky with thew signing of Mccain

I suspect that your assessment is overly compartmentalized. Tomlin has had a hand in the draft picks as have most of the coaches and the Rooneys. I am sure Colbert has not been drafting guys and saying here is what we got deal with it. I also suspect that sometimes they were surprised the way things have fallen finding players that they had rated high and did not do homework to the same degree as others to players being gone that they looked at and wanted and expected to be available. If you follow the changes that coincided with his arrival till now the team seems to be drafting better now than when MT first got here. Time and practice will allow someone to get better at something if they put in work and effort at doing so. I suspect we would not have been going after so many Al Davis types if Tomlin was not here. Tomlin is more into speed than most guys and it shows on our draft picks. Cowher was not as much of a speed guy just for comparisons sake he was more of a power guy. Not saying one route will always be better than the other just that they are different routes.

This last year looks better than many have after one year in to me that means the new guy to the game MT is getting better.

 

[JupiterBnG]

As we know, Mike Tomlin threw the challenge flag last weekend on a catch by Chief's TE Travis Kelce. Tomlin possibly believed that Kelce didn't maintain control of the ball through the catch. Upon review, the play stood. Catch by Kelce. This led some on the board to mutter the oft-repeated phrases that Tomlin "isn't any good at determining when to challenge" and/or "is terrible at challenges".
Apparently, that viewpoint is unsubstantiated. While reading an article at BTSC, I was directed to a link regarding the the best and worst records in terms of challenges by active NFL Head Coaches. Apparently, at the time the article was written (September of this year), Tomlin had the best record in terms of percentage of challenges won of any active Head Coach in the league with more than 50 challenge flags thrown, winning %54.5 of his challenges.

http://news.sportsinteraction.com/sports/nfl-football/nfl-coachs-challenge-best-and-worst-records-when-the-flag-is-thrown-83188/

Interesting that the myth does not reflect the reality.

I posted these facts about Tomlin's success rate with challenges in one of the "Fire Tomlin" threads weeks ago. Where's the love, Jimmy?

http://steelernation.com/showthread...r-the-off-season&p=76942&viewfull=1#post76942

 

[SteelBuckeye]

I posted these facts about Tomlin's success rate with challenges in one of the "Fire Tomlin" threads weeks ago. Where's the love, Jimmy?

http://steelernation.com/showthread...r-the-off-season&p=76942&viewfull=1#post76942

Didn't see it, and didn't mean to step on your toes. My apologies and much respect.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

I suspect that your assessment is overly compartmentalized. Tomlin has had a hand in the draft picks as have most of the coaches and the Rooneys. I am sure Colbert has not been drafting guys and saying here is what we got deal with it. I also suspect that sometimes they were surprised the way things have fallen finding players that they had rated high and did not do homework to the same degree as others to players being gone that they looked at and wanted and expected to be available. If you follow the changes that coincided with his arrival till now the team seems to be drafting better now than when MT first got here. Time and practice will allow someone to get better at something if they put in work and effort at doing so. I suspect we would not have been going after so many Al Davis types if Tomlin was not here. Tomlin is more into speed than most guys and it shows on our draft picks. Cowher was not as much of a speed guy just for comparisons sake he was more of a power guy. Not saying one route will always be better than the other just that they are different routes.

This last year looks better than many have after one year in to me that means the new guy to the game MT is getting better.

Or it could mean that the Steelers scouting department had grown complacent with scouting the type of players that Cowher wanted and it took them awhile to catch up to what the new guy to the game desired in his players. Who knows? There are many possibilities and any one or a combination of them all could be true. I just hope the influx of talent that we are starting to see and reap the benefits of continues.

 

[JupiterBnG]

Didn't see it, and didn't mean to step on your toes. My apologies and much respect.

No worries. I was as shocked as anyone when I looked up the stats on it. I was convinced he had to be bottom of the barrel when it came to challenges until I saw the numbers for myself. As I mentioned in that other thread, it's an example of people believing what they want to believe to justify an erroneous argument. I still don't think it's compelling evidence that Tomlin is a top-tier head coach, but the facts can't be disputed either.

 

[TazManianDevil]

I think some of the criticism was warranted. Steelers were sloppy, lots of flags, big plays being and stupid penalties being committed.

He seemed like he wasn't in control. Not meaning he had lost the team but he seemed detached on the sideline. Like he was there just to watch the spectacle.

Lately he's been more involved, he's showing emotions on the sidelines, he actually gathered the entire secondary against the Falcons which the defense responded by forcing a 3 and out and the offense killed the clock.

He's more tuned now the was previously.

He's right the ship...he needs to flow up next year with another solid draft.

 

[ianv2012]

I think some of the criticism was warranted. Steelers were sloppy, lots of flags, big plays being and stupid penalties being committed.

He seemed like he wasn't in control. Not meaning he had lost the team but he seemed detached on the sideline. Like he was there just to watch the spectacle.

Lately he's been more involved, he's showing emotions on the sidelines, he actually gathered the entire secondary against the Falcons which the defense responded by forcing a 3 and out and the offense killed the clock.

He's more tuned now the was previously.

He's right the ship...he needs to flow up next year with another solid draft.

I think we are just seeing the development of Tomlin as the head coach, just like young rookies learn and get better in understanding the mental part of the game. Tomlin has been learning what it takes to build a team and make it a winner.

One thing Tomlin is better at than anyone in the league is knowing WR talent, dude is money at drafting WRs. Since he was hired, every WR he's chosen has either turned out great or has flashed the ability to be so except Justin Brown (Although I like him and think he showed potential, just think mentally isn't prepared for a major role).

 

[steelermania]

No worries. I was as shocked as anyone when I looked up the stats on it. I was convinced he had to be bottom of the barrel when it came to challenges until I saw the numbers for myself. As I mentioned in that other thread, it's an example of people believing what they want to believe to justify an erroneous argument. I still don't think it's compelling evidence that Tomlin is a top-tier head coach, but the facts can't be disputed either.

I think that because we see our guys every week, we see all of their mistakes, and tend to be very critical. I've tried to pay more attention to what other coaches do over the last few years, and guess what; I constantly see poor clock management, bad challenges, crazy play calling, and all of the things that people here complain about.

 

[steelermania]

I think we are just seeing the development of Tomlin as the head coach, just like young rookies learn and get better in understanding the mental part of the game. Tomlin has been learning what it takes to build a team and make it a winner.

One thing Tomlin is better at than anyone in the league is knowing WR talent, dude is money at drafting WRs. Since he was hired, every WR he's chosen has either turned out great or has flashed the ability to be so except Justin Brown (Although I like him and think he showed potential, just think mentally isn't prepared for a major role).

Uh, Limas Sweed? Your point is well taken though.

 

[Omar10213245]

I think that because we see our guys every week, we see all of their mistakes, and tend to be very critical. I've tried to pay more attention to what other coaches do over the last few years, and guess what; I constantly see poor clock management, bad challenges, crazy play calling, and all of the things that people here complain about.

The only guy I could compare to Tomlin in this regard, would be McCarthy in Green Bay, although I must admit both have gotten better about it over the course of this season

 

[Omar10213245]

I think we are just seeing the development of Tomlin as the head coach, just like young rookies learn and get better in understanding the mental part of the game. Tomlin has been learning what it takes to build a team and make it a winner.

One thing Tomlin is better at than anyone in the league is knowing WR talent, dude is money at drafting WRs. Since he was hired, every WR he's chosen has either turned out great or has flashed the ability to be so except Justin Brown (Although I like him and think he showed potential, just think mentally isn't prepared for a major role).

Well **** its about time, yes?? For Chrissakes, the man has been coaching for this franchise since 2007! Frankly, I'd rather my head coach start "developing" his craft and skill as a head man earlier in his career, such as, well, as an assistant coach...crazy, right??

 

[Omar10213245]

Some fans just have to ***** about everything that can be associated to Mike Tomlin. When he won the Super Bowl, its with Cowher's players, when they win games its because of Haley, Lebeau and the players, when they lose its Tomlin's fault, no discipline, too nice, etc. the man will never do anything right in some fans eyes. The challenge flag is just another in the ever growing litany of transgressions that Mike Tomlin makes daily. Although I will say while his success percentage ranks very high, there are times when it seems he should challenge and doesn't, which won't show up as win or a loss.

Papillon

Mike? That you?

 

[SteelChip]

Just as the refs have to make an instantaneous decision, so does Tomlin. He may be influenced by the players or he may get confirmation from his coaches booth, if there is enough time, but either way it has to be a coin toss at best. We can sit and watch a replay over and over, listen to commentary and 'expert' opinions...he can not.

 

[SteelerSask2]

When I watched the play, I agreed with the challenge. It met the criteria for a risky challenge as it was 3rd down and it would have pushed them out of field goal range. The phrase that I kept saying was survive going to the ground. Now apparently if you take enough steps it doesn't matter if the ball comes loose at the ground, however, I believe the network official disagreed with the challenge decision. He felt with the defender in contact with the receiver, he did indeed need to survive going to the ground.

 

[steelermania]

Just as the refs have to make an instantaneous decision, so does Tomlin. He may be influenced by the players or he may get confirmation from his coaches booth, if there is enough time, but either way it has to be a coin toss at best. We can sit and watch a replay over and over, listen to commentary and 'expert' opinions...he can not.

Bingo! The coach has to rely on input from the booth, and the players. If he's lucky, he might see a good angle on the jumbotron.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

The only guy I could compare to Tomlin in this regard, would be McCarthy in Green Bay, although I must admit both have gotten better about it over the course of this season

Smith in Atlanta has been so bad at these things this year that even the folks at Boston Sports Network have caught on and speak about it.

 

[Omar10213245]

Smith in Atlanta has been so bad at these things this year that even the folks at Boston Sports Network have caught on and speak about it.

Oh yeah, forgot about smith

 

[topseed]

As we know, Mike Tomlin threw the challenge flag last weekend on a catch by Chief's TE Travis Kelce. Tomlin possibly believed that Kelce didn't maintain control of the ball through the catch. Upon review, the play stood. Catch by Kelce. This led some on the board to mutter the oft-repeated phrases that Tomlin "isn't any good at determining when to challenge" and/or "is terrible at challenges".
Apparently, that viewpoint is unsubstantiated. While reading an article at BTSC, I was directed to a link regarding the the best and worst records in terms of challenges by active NFL Head Coaches. Apparently, at the time the article was written (September of this year), Tomlin had the best record in terms of percentage of challenges won of any active Head Coach in the league with more than 50 challenge flags thrown, winning %54.5 of his challenges.

http://news.sportsinteraction.com/sports/nfl-football/nfl-coachs-challenge-best-and-worst-records-when-the-flag-is-thrown-83188/

Interesting that the myth does not reflect the reality.

Evidently, you've directed this thread at my comment that Tomlin botched another challenge (although this was my only criticism of the man after the KC game, and in fact I credited him on several other points).

While it MAY (and I use that term, because according to pro-football-reference.com, a much more respected source than some random gambling site, he's at 52%, not 54.5) be true that Tomlin's career challenge numbers are a whopping couple of percentage points higher than guys like McCarthy, Coughlin, and others, it really doesn't tell the story of WHICH plays he tends to challenge, or WHEN he decides to throw the flag.

A prime example would be his last challenge before the Kelce play, in the Jets game. He challenges a 7 yard gain by the Jets on 3rd-and-15, and loses their second timeout when the play is upheld. Either way, New York is going to have to punt the ball back to the Steelers with plenty of time before the half, so it made no sense at all. Or here's one that counted as a "win": A couple of years ago, he challenges a 2 yard gain on 2nd-and-2 by the Bengals early in the third quarter, and it's overturned to a 3rd-and-inches. Is that the kind of play that really needs to be reversed? A simple QB sneak still nets the first down there 95+% of the time. Then Hampton of course jumped offsides on the next play anyway, no doubt trying to blow up the impending sneak. Then there's the instances when he didn't throw the flag when he should have...obviously there's no way to incorporate those into challenge stats.

So while his success rate might impress some people like you, it certainly isn't the be-all end-all myth-buster you're claiming it to be.