Tomlin And Challenges

[topseed]

I think that because we see our guys every week, we see all of their mistakes, and tend to be very critical. I've tried to pay more attention to what other coaches do over the last few years, and guess what; I constantly see poor clock management, bad challenges, crazy play calling, and all of the things that people here complain about.

There's a lot of truth to that statement as well.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

Evidently, you've directed this thread at my comment that Tomlin botched another challenge (although this was my only criticism of the man after the KC game, and in fact I credited him on several other points).

While it MAY (and I use that term, because according to pro-football-reference.com, a much more respected source than some random gambling site, he's at 52%, not 54.5) be true that Tomlin's career challenge numbers are a whopping couple of percentage points higher than guys like McCarthy, Coughlin, and others, it really doesn't tell the story of WHICH plays he tends to challenge, or WHEN he decides to throw the flag.

A prime example would be his last challenge before the Kelce play, in the Jets game. He challenges a 7 yard gain by the Jets on 3rd-and-15, and loses their second timeout when the play is upheld. Either way, New York is going to have to punt the ball back to the Steelers with plenty of time before the half, so it made no sense at all. Or here's one that counted as a "win": A couple of years ago, he challenges a 2 yard gain on 2nd-and-2 by the Bengals early in the third quarter, and it's overturned to a 3rd-and-inches. Is that the kind of play that really needs to be reversed? A simple QB sneak still nets the first down there 95+% of the time. Then Hampton of course jumped offsides on the next play anyway, no doubt trying to blow up the impending sneak. Then there's the instances when he didn't throw the flag when he should have...obviously there's no way to incorporate those into challenge stats.

So while his success rate might impress some people like you, it certainly isn't the be-all end-all myth-buster you're claiming it to be.

Don't flatter yourself ... I have no opinion on your musings about challenges. I provided an informative article to the board. If you take offense to that .... well, I guess that would be your problem. Btw, I only made one statement in the above post: "Interesting that the myth does not reflect the reality". And guess what? By the numbers it doesn't. I never claimed to be a "myth buster" as you state with such supercilious smugness. I suppose maybe the author of the article felt that way. Hence the reason for the article. Maybe you should email him with your concerns and rebuttal. I will wait with baited breath for you to post his response.

As I said earlier, it's been a damn good week for me as a fan. Buckeyes in the Nat. Champ. Game and Steelers in the playoffs. You, as a Steelers fan, should at least be able to share my enjoyment of the latter.

 

[Blackstone]

Great post topseed, it is the when and the why with the challenges Tomlin stupidly wastes with little to no upside of winning the challenges that you point out that is the key . He loses the big ones and wastes challenges on the inconsequential ones.

 

[topseed]

Don't flatter yourself ... I have no opinion on your musings about challenges. I provided an informative article to the board. If you take offense to that .... well, I guess that would be your problem. Btw, I only made one statement in the above post: "Interesting that the myth does not reflect the reality". And guess what? By the numbers it doesn't. I never claimed to be a "myth buster" as you state with such supercilious smugness. I suppose maybe the author of the article felt that way. Hence the reason for the article. Maybe you should email him with your concerns and rebuttal. I will wait with baited breath for you to post his response.

As I said earlier, it's been a damn good week for me as a fan. Buckeyes in the Nat. Champ. Game and Steelers in the playoffs. You, as a Steelers fan, should at least be able to share my enjoyment of the latter.

Right. You present an article about an "unsubstantiated viewpoint" (which happens to be my own, and well-documented in the Fire Tomlin thread). Then you call that viewpoint a myth, and say it doesn't reflect reality. Yet noooooo, you're not busting any myths here. It's plain to see that you completely disagree with the author. You are one amusing bird.

As I said earlier, grab your Brutus doll and go have a good time. You deserve it. Maybe it'll clear your head and help you figure out what you obviously agree with.

p.s. *in my most supercilious tone*: It's "bated" breath, chief...lol. Or maybe you're goin' fishin'!

 

[SteelBuckeye]

Right. You present an article about an "unsubstantiated viewpoint" (which happens to be my own, and well-documented in the Fire Tomlin thread). Then you call that viewpoint a myth, and say it doesn't reflect reality. Yet noooooo, you're not busting any myths here. It's plain to see that you completely disagree with the author. You are one amusing bird.

As I said earlier, grab your Brutus doll and go have a good time. You deserve it. Maybe it'll clear your head and help you figure out what you obviously agree with.

p.s. *in my most supercilious tone*: It's "bated" breath, chief...lol. Or maybe you're goin' fishin'!

Yes, you were the ONLY one on this message board who was discussing the challenge. It definitely wasn't discussed in the game thread .... right? Keep flattering yourself kiddo.

As I said earlier, don't forget to cover your head when you sleep tonight ... wouldn't want Manning/Brady to jump out and scare you to death.

Playoffs, Buckeyes, Steelers ... good week for a fan! It seems you're not enjoying it much though ... that's too bad.

p.s. I'll leave the fishing to you. It's another one of your most entertaining qualities.

 

[Super Dave]

Don't flatter yourself ... I have no opinion on your musings about challenges. I provided an informative article to the board. If you take offense to that .... well, I guess that would be your problem. Btw, I only made one statement in the above post: "Interesting that the myth does not reflect the reality". And guess what? By the numbers it doesn't. I never claimed to be a "myth buster" as you state with such supercilious smugness. I suppose maybe the author of the article felt that way. Hence the reason for the article. Maybe you should email him with your concerns and rebuttal. I will wait with baited breath for you to post his response.

As I said earlier, it's been a damn good week for me as a fan. Buckeyes in the Nat. Champ. Game and Steelers in the playoffs. You, as a Steelers fan, should at least be able to share my enjoyment of the latter.

Yes, you were the ONLY one on this message board who was discussing the challenge. It definitely wasn't discussed in the game thread .... right? Keep flattering yourself kiddo.

As I said earlier, don't forget to cover your head when you sleep tonight ... wouldn't want Manning/Brady to jump out and scare you to death.

Playoffs, Buckeyes, Steelers ... good week for a fan! It seems you're not enjoying it much though ... that's too bad.

p.s. I'll leave the fishing to you. It's another one of your most entertaining qualities.

Topseed brought up some interesting points about the subject........and he did so with out attacking you.

You, on the on the other hand immediately went personal.

That is the kind of bullshit that brings down the level of discourse on the board.

So as I said previously, knock it off........

 

[topseed]

Yes, you were the ONLY one on this message board who was discussing the challenge. It definitely wasn't discussed in the game thread .... right? Keep flattering yourself kiddo.

As I said earlier, don't forget to cover your head when you sleep tonight ... wouldn't want Manning/Brady to jump out and scare you to death.

Playoffs, Buckeyes, Steelers ... good week for a fan! It seems you're not enjoying it much though ... that's too bad.

p.s. I'll leave the fishing to you. It's another one of your most entertaining qualities.

I just pointed out some flaws in your (aka that other guy's) argument. Not flattering myself, not worried about Tom Brady being under my bed, and certainly couldn't care less about enjoying an Ohio State win.

But, luckily, I do know the difference between simple homonyms.