Tomlin giving up play calling duties

[Hypocycloids]

From reading the posts this appears to be a big ******* deal!!... so I'll take yinz word for it!!
I don't doubt one bit that Dick LeBeau was a great D coordinator, but I often wondered what it is that makes a D coordinator great. The football novice in me says that the D has to react to what the O does and unlike the offense, the defense plays are very limited. Only so much you can do. I've always thought that the D players are pretty much on their own.

 

[Steelr4evr]

From reading the posts this appears to be a big ******* deal!!... so I'll take yinz word for it!!
I don't doubt one bit that Dick LeBeau was a great D coordinator, but I often wondered what it is that makes a D coordinator great. The football novice in me says that the D has to react to what the O does and unlike the offense, the defense plays are very limited. Only so much you can do. I've always thought that the D players are pretty much on their own.

Actually it took several years for most new guys to operate at a high level in Coach LeBeau's defense. Which is why some guys struggled for awhile and didn't see the field a lot until they knew what the hell they're doing.

 

[Ike Kelly]

Hmmm...I wouldn't go that far. Let's not forget we lost TWO MAJOR starters upfront last year (explains the terrible run defense).

Here are the defensive rankings over the years - definitely not 'middle of the pack' numbers:

Steelers Defensive Rankings By Year 2008 To 2021 | StatMuse

steelers defensive rankings by year 2008 to 2021

www.statmuse.com

Here is a better analysis, statistically, which isn't the end all.

https://share.icloud.com/photos/0e5NeXnuSlMt8kgjIpJV2-28A

Def points 9 of 15 years in the top 10 (with three no. 1 ranking); Def yards 10 of 15 years in the top 10 (with four no. 1 rankings). As Berm said, two starters missing out of the gate last year, and had to give the youth more snaps (over 1000) to cover the missing starters.

They got steamrolled for over 42 points in their last 3 playoff games. They get spanked by sub .500 teams regularly. Whatever they're doing blows. I was ready for him to be gone 5 years ago, but hey maybe this will help get him over the top.

He started meddling when Dick Lebeau was still here and **** went downhill.

Let your coaches coach. He's going get credit no matter what.


You are correct about the run defense last year, but his body of work pushing 11 plus years speaks very loudly. Glad he's changing. Know your strengths and surround yourself with people smarter than you when it comes to coaches. Everyone wins.

You wanted him gone 5 years ago, so no amount of change will placate your opinion, probably not even a trip to a conference championship or SB, which the majority here will even attest is unlikely (but hopeful).

Filliponni is a hack, he has no credibility. Bob P, not an insider journalist, but an observer like most others in the media. Tomlin will do what he always has done (with the exception of when Coach LeBeau was here) solidify the game plan scheme with the coords and let them call their game, with Tomlin having veto on any play to be sent through. With Flores involved now, there is an extra set of eyes for game planning, coaching and gameday play observations which can impact defensive play selection. As for Tomlin calling plays over Coach LeaBeau, when Tomlin was asked that question several times when CLB was here he always said, “why change anything if it isn’t broke?” The HC does what all HC do, provide input when they see it. Cowher did ALL THE TIME on both sides of the ball, even with LeBeau as the DC. He let his coords do their jobs and meet with their squads on the bench after each possession. If necessary, Chin would add anything he saw. Most of the time player to player.

 

[Steelr4evr]

Here is a better analysis, statistically, which isn't the end all.

https://share.icloud.com/photos/0e5NeXnuSlMt8kgjIpJV2-28A

Def points 9 of 15 years in the top 10 (with three no. 1 ranking); Def yards 10 of 15 years in the top 10 (with four no. 1 rankings). As Berm said, two starters missing out of the gate last year, and had to give the youth more snaps (over 1000) to cover the missing starters.


You wanted him gone 5 years ago, so no amount of change will placate your opinion, probably not even a trip to a conference championship or SB, which the majority here will even attest is unlikely (but hopeful).

Filliponni is a hack, he has no credibility. Bob P, not an insider journalist, but an observer like most others in the media. Tomlin will do what he always has done (with the exception of when Coach LeBeau was here) solidify the game plan scheme with the coords and let them call their game, with Tomlin having veto on any play to be sent through. With Flores involved now, there is an extra set of eyes for game planning, coaching and gameday play observations which can impact defensive play selection. As for Tomlin calling plays over Coach LeaBeau, when Tomlin was asked that question several times when CLB was here he always said, “why change anything if it isn’t broke?” The HC does what all HC do, provide input when they see it. Cowher did ALL THE TIME on both sides of the ball, even with LeBeau as the DC. He let his coords do their jobs and meet with their squads on the bench after each possession. If necessary, Chin would add anything he saw. Most of the time player to player.

Nonsense. The only superbowl they'll see is if they buy tickets. No amount of failing over 11 years will placate the apologist for the mediocrity standard and soft play that is substandard to the standard they set for themselves.

But hooray for the team stuck in the middle of the road.

 

[stuntmanmike]

Here is a better analysis, statistically, which isn't the end all.

https://share.icloud.com/photos/0e5NeXnuSlMt8kgjIpJV2-28A

Def points 9 of 15 years in the top 10 (with three no. 1 ranking); Def yards 10 of 15 years in the top 10 (with four no. 1 rankings). As Berm said, two starters missing out of the gate last year, and had to give the youth more snaps (over 1000) to cover the missing starters.


You wanted him gone 5 years ago, so no amount of change will placate your opinion, probably not even a trip to a conference championship or SB, which the majority here will even attest is unlikely (but hopeful).

Filliponni is a hack, he has no credibility. Bob P, not an insider journalist, but an observer like most others in the media. Tomlin will do what he always has done (with the exception of when Coach LeBeau was here) solidify the game plan scheme with the coords and let them call their game, with Tomlin having veto on any play to be sent through. With Flores involved now, there is an extra set of eyes for game planning, coaching and gameday play observations which can impact defensive play selection. As for Tomlin calling plays over Coach LeaBeau, when Tomlin was asked that question several times when CLB was here he always said, “why change anything if it isn’t broke?” The HC does what all HC do, provide input when they see it. Cowher did ALL THE TIME on both sides of the ball, even with LeBeau as the DC. He let his coords do their jobs and meet with their squads on the bench after each possession. If necessary, Chin would add anything he saw. Most of the time player to player.

am I miss something here? tomlin called the defense from the time he took over… that came out last year when coach Butler was leaving. Butler said he would have preferred to have called the plays and one can only presume that Lebeau left because he too preferred to call his own plays. What’s with the “solidify the game plan scheme with the coords and let them call their game” that’s not what Butler said was going on on his exit. What are we missing here?

 

[slashsteel]

Part of me would like to see Flores calling those plays. But we will see how it shakes out. Canada is still the elephant in the room as well. I still regardless think more coaching experience should do the team good. For me the concern remains on offense. If they aren't proficient they can wear out a sound D. But on the flip side I think the D has more pieces to rotate in and keep fresh. They could add a RB, T, and OLBer to complete this train of thought....

 

[stuntmanmike]

am I miss something here? tomlin called the defense from the time he took over… that came out last year when coach Butler was leaving. Butler said he would have preferred to have called the plays and one can only presume that Lebeau left because he too preferred to call his own plays. What’s with the “solidify the game plan scheme with the coords and let them call their game” that’s not what Butler said was going on on his exit. What are we missing here?

Pittsburgh Steelers, Penguins, Pirates News, Live Coverage | DK Pittsburgh Sports

Pittsburgh Steelers, Penguins, Pirates News, Live Coverage | DK Pittsburgh Sports

dkpittsburghsports.com

 

[steelreeling]

last couple years couldn’t stop anybody. They didn’t sign any help or draft any help so hard to no where the help is coming from. Just pray Fitz, TJ, Ironhead2, don’t get hurt.

Recall the D kept us in ALOT of games last year. Did not they slam the f*cking door so hard on the face of Allen, Fields, Wilson and a certain Mr. LAMAR?

i vaguely remember a guy named Jack, Wallace, Leal, Joseph, & Ogunkobi.

i dont know maybe this D is like what, #3. Nah probably more like #2 in the NFL.

 

[JMM]

My fear is any development of internal head-butting on the defensive coaching staff. Will Austin really be open to input from other coaches, including Flores? Will Flores be OK with Austin nixing any of his suggestions? Not that I've seen any indication that this may happen, but it's something to think about considering you have a high-profile coach - a former HC at that - come in and essentially assume a place on a lower rung on the ladder that is the defensive coach hierarchy. Plus the chip on his shoulder that comes as a result of his lawsuit against the league... mix it all together and you may have a recipe for something that would not be good.

Like Kevin Gilbride and Buddy Ryan bad?

 

[Steel Reign]

Damn ... couple days early so I can't say Christmas in July. But, seriously, I hope this helps shore up some of the time management, challenge and other things. On the other side of this, I was not a fan of who was chosen to be D coordinator and having our actual D coordinator make calls vs Tomlin may actually be ... bad.

 

[Confluence]

Part of me would like to see Flores calling those plays. But we will see how it shakes out. Canada is still the elephant in the room as well. I still regardless think more coaching experience should do the team good. For me the concern remains on offense. If they aren't proficient they can wear out a sound D. But on the flip side I think the D has more pieces to rotate in and keep fresh. They could add a RB, T, and OLBer to complete this train of thought....

I just like that phrase....how true!

 

[Drink IRON City]

I am in the boat of wait and see what translates tot he field of play..

We've had the whole offseason to get our defensive front & inside LBs.

We have defensive cordinators (up grade) in place with HC saying he will back off.

All this is exciting but it is also the Happpppy everything off season.



It's been in my mind and slash touches the subject........................." O'Canada"

Ben is gone so that scape goat is no longer available.

I didn't see any "genius" cordnating being done last year.

No Audibles for first 4 games (WTF)

Terrible square peg round hole syndrome, playing to personel weakness.

I see no excuses for O'Canada, he needs to be a huge improvement over last year. I'm talking OC job, knowing player's strength and playing calling to that.

This is the biggest weakness on the team and O'Canada needs to be stepping up and show us he has been working hard durring the off-season.


Here is to a GREAT season with all parts improved and playing as a team, a well practiced, well adjusted / ready to play every game.!!!


20 - 0


Salute the nation

 

[topseed]

You wanted him gone 5 years ago, so no amount of change will placate your opinion, probably not even a trip to a conference championship or SB, which the majority here will even attest is unlikely (but hopeful).

And what has Tomlin accomplished in those five years? Besides missing the postseason two times, and getting embarrassed in the other three via awful one-and-done exits?

Personally, I wanted Tomlin gone after the Jacksonville debacle. But we all know that he'll coach until he's 90 if he wants to. And I don't see him passing up that $8 million salary anytime soon. Especially with those non-losing seasons continuing to pile up.

 

[Ike Kelly]

am I miss something here? tomlin called the defense from the time he took over… that came out last year when coach Butler was leaving. Butler said he would have preferred to have called the plays and one can only presume that Lebeau left because he too preferred to call his own plays. What’s with the “solidify the game plan scheme with the coords and let them call their game” that’s not what Butler said was going on on his exit. What are we missing here?

Nope. Tomlin let CLB call the D (but he could intercede any call, just like Chin did). As mentioned previously Tomlin/LeBeau defenses were top 5 defenses 5 out of the 8 seasons together. “If it wasn’t broke why fix it”. Obviously players were retiring, or degrading, so replacements were a priority.

CLB was not retained, because Butler (who was the heir apparent to LeBeau) was getting looks from other clubs, not to mention getting antsy waiting for LeBeau to retire. So a decision had to be made. Keep the seasoned disciple and let the teacher move on. As for what Butler said during his exit, you had a different interpretation from each writer who attended the press conference. Coach Buts had no ego, and was a non nonsense type of Coord/coach. He was pretty good at coaching LBs and scheming the defense around them. Defenses are changing yet again because of the rules. Stopping the run doesn’t mean DL taking up blockers, it’s penetration and pressure from the front seven. It upsets both running lanes and pass timing. Not to mention decreasing the time DBs have to cover. Defense has evolved every ten years since free agency started, because QBs and skill position players are the NFL’s celebrities.

 

[Black & Gold Bleeder]

ps, idk who clb is,, but i agree with most of your post.

 

[Black & Gold Bleeder]

Butler was a good defensive mind. Despite looking like a muppet. Butler got ****** in the *** in my opinion.

 

[Ike Kelly]

ps, idk who clb is,, but i agree with most of your post.

Coach LeBeau.

 

[SteelerSask2]

From reading the posts this appears to be a big ******* deal!!... so I'll take yinz word for it!!
I don't doubt one bit that Dick LeBeau was a great D coordinator, but I often wondered what it is that makes a D coordinator great. The football novice in me says that the D has to react to what the O does and unlike the offense, the defense plays are very limited. Only so much you can do. I've always thought that the D players are pretty much on their own.

So aspects of what you are saying have some validity, but some of it is way off base. It's like anything in football. Your talent dictates what you can do. And then you have philosophy. To me Mike Tomlin's philosophy is let's stop the splash play and let Watt and Heyward hunt. Wheras Lebeau seemed to want to dictate the game a lot more. And the price of that can be a big play. As a high school defensive caller I can play covers 3,2,1,0. I can have the players in zone have eyes on the Q and the run in zone or we can go man and bring 5 and 6 man pressure. We can run a variety of stunts to confuse blocking schemes and then bring a free hitter. But the most important thing of coaching defense is to have if this happens you need to do this. So while you are right about less plays to remember there is a hell of a lot more teaching on defense because the players cannot react according to what they want to do. They have to react according to the rules of your defense. It's a lot of feeling out what the offense wants to do and can do well and leaving this blitz or this coverage for that critical moment.

 

[Hypocycloids]

So aspects of what you are saying have some validity, but some of it is way off base. It's like anything in football. Your talent dictates what you can do. And then you have philosophy. To me Mike Tomlin's philosophy is let's stop the splash play and let Watt and Heyward hunt. Wheras Lebeau seemed to want to dictate the game a lot more. And the price of that can be a big play. As a high school defensive caller I can play covers 3,2,1,0. I can have the players in zone have eyes on the Q and the run in zone or we can go man and bring 5 and 6 man pressure. We can run a variety of stunts to confuse blocking schemes and then bring a free hitter. But the most important thing of coaching defense is to have if this happens you need to do this. So while you are right about less plays to remember there is a hell of a lot more teaching on defense because the players cannot react according to what they want to do. They have to react according to the rules of your defense. It's a lot of feeling out what the offense wants to do and can do well and leaving this blitz or this coverage for that critical moment.

Very interesting. Thanks!

 

[Hines57]

Will believe it when I see it.

 

[Lunar]

I'm a tough nut to crack. I'm still learning to discern the fine line between drinking wine and squashing grapes.

Dont let coolie crush the grapes.

 

[Drink IRON City]

Dont let coolie crush the grapes.

I thought Coolie's grapes had already been crushed...................... I will NOT be checking though,... just for the record........



Salute the nation

 

[Lunar]

I thought Coolie's grapes had already been crushed...................... I will NOT be checking though,... just for the record........



Salute the nation

Grapes of Wrath.

 

[steelreeling]

I see no excuses for O'Canada, he needs to be a huge improvement over last year. I'm talking OC job, knowing player's strength and playing calling to that.

Aint that the effing truth.

For this year, i foresee a completely bifurcated set of outcomes, good/ bad. OCanada needs to recognize that Trubadour kicks *** when he can commit the safety. But then if the safety can hide or fool Trubadour, an interception is very likely to come.

Given that, i hope to God that Muth, Rader & Gentry are ready to make real threats this year. If they aint - gonna be a long-asss year for the Steelers. Thus, i wish that Khan would look at any available TEs cause the O needs em bad - that and OCanada better slip Najee out of the backfield a whole lot because it's mission critical to keep the safeties honest.

 

[Fiji Mariner]

I am in the boat of wait and see what translates tot he field of play..

We've had the whole offseason to get our defensive front & inside LBs.

We have defensive cordinators (up grade) in place with HC saying he will back off.

All this is exciting but it is also the Happpppy everything off season.



It's been in my mind and slash touches the subject........................." O'Canada"

Ben is gone so that scape goat is no longer available.

I didn't see any "genius" cordnating being done last year.

No Audibles for first 4 games (WTF)

Terrible square peg round hole syndrome, playing to personel weakness.

I see no excuses for O'Canada, he needs to be a huge improvement over last year. I'm talking OC job, knowing player's strength and playing calling to that.

This is the biggest weakness on the team and O'Canada needs to be stepping up and show us he has been working hard durring the off-season.


Here is to a GREAT season with all parts improved and playing as a team, a well practiced, well adjusted / ready to play every game.!!!


20 - 0


Salute the nation

I like the 20-0 prediction

Unfortunately we get screwed again after going 17-0 in season and get the 2 seed behind the juggernaut 17-0 Chiefs who win the tiebreak for 1 seed.

No worries the 19-0 Steelers head into Arrowhead and crush their 18-0 ***** as we become the only 21-0 team ever…now that’s gonna be a hard record to break!!!!

Enough with all the offseason chatting and yap flappiin’…let’s go crush some dreams

HERE WE GO STEELERS!!!!