We need a new Head Coach.......FIRE TOMLIN NOW!!!

[Wingman]

Coach of the year...... are you guys ******* kidding me...............

 

[antdrewjosh]

http://triblive.com/mobile/7427040-96/steelers-colbert-round

Starkey: Tomlin/Colbert drafts deserve another look
By Joe Starkey Freelance Columnist
Saturday, Dec. 27, 2014, 10:33 p.m.
Updated 12 hours ago

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Lookie here: The Steelers, with a playoff spot clinched, tied for third most in the NFL with five players voted to the Pro Bowl and easily could have had more.

That tells me they are well-stocked with high-end talent.

The Steelers, with a division title at stake Sunday night, have transitioned from old, slow and done to young, fast and fun — especially on offense and excluding the secondary.

That tells me somebody must be drafting well because we know the Steelers do not play the high-stakes free agent game.

If Troy Polamalu and Ike Taylor don't start against the Cincinnati Bengals, only five of 22 starters from the lʍoq ɹǝdnS team of 2010 will start the game (not including William Gay and James Harrison, who left and came back).

In other words, the Steelers have completely reshaped their roster. And if this is indeed the other side of the rebuild, we will be forced to reconsider a few things.

First, we'll have to look back and say the transition wasn't nearly as painful as it could have been. The price for a massive overhaul is usually a lot steeper than two 8-8 seasons ending with near-playoff misses.

Second, and more to the point, we really must reappraise the quality of the Mike Tomlin/Kevin Colbert drafts, which are looking better every day.

Conventional wisdom would have you believe Tomlin and Colbert mangled multiple drafts and left the Steelers wanting at too many positions to be a serious contender. The flaw in that theory completely destroys it. The Steelers are a serious contender.

We know about the misses. Everybody misses. Some studies will tell you that even in the first round, the league-wide bust rate is about 40 percent. It only goes up after that. So we know all about the Ziggy Hoods and Curtis Browns. We know Dri Archer so far looks like Chris Rainey II, only Archer can't return kickoffs and was taken two rounds earlier.

To focus on the misses is to miss the point. Every team can look back on a lost draft class or two. The point is the Steelers have hit on enough picks — some of them grand slams — to make themselves a winner again.

Start with two of the NFL's most prolific players — Le'Veon Bell and Antonio Brown — on what has become the most prolific offense in franchise history. In any remix of their draft years, both would be legit top-five picks. The Steelers got Bell in the second round, Brown the sixth.

The Steelers found Brown with the 195th pick in 2010, the same year they drafted Maurkice Pouncey 18th overall. In my book, those two alone make that a great draft. Pouncey, despite losing a season to injury, is the most decorated offensive lineman of the 2010 draft with four Pro Bowl invites. The Steelers also got a couple of other legit NFL starters in Emmanuel Sanders and Jason Worilds.

How come we never talk about that draft?

Meanwhile, Markus Wheaton (third round, 2013) is developing nicely, and this year the Steelers snagged a game-changer in the fourth round (118th overall) in Martavis Bryant, who only has transformed the offense. Bryant set an NFL record with six touchdown catches in first four games.

Anybody giving Tomlin and Colbert credit for that pick?

David DeCastro was another nice catch. He is beginning to remind people of his number-sake, Alan Faneca. The Steelers took DeCastro with 24th pick in 2012, and that brings up another key point: Tomlin and Colbert never get a top-10 choice. Their highest selection has been 15th (twice).

One of their best picks was a seventh-rounder who has turned into a quality player at a premium position: left tackle. That would be Kelvin Beachum, the 248th selection in 2012.

Defensively, the record has not been as good, but there are bright spots. Lawrence Timmons (15th overall) and Heyward (31st) were brilliant picks. This year's second-rounder, Stephon Tuitt, played his best game against Kansas City and appears to be on the rise.

It's still too early to judge first-rounders Jarvis Jones and Ryan Shazier. You wonder what linebacker Sean Spence (third round, 2012) might have been had he not suffered a catastrophic knee injury.

If there is an area in which the Tomlin/Colbert union has failed, it's the secondary. The one elite cornerback they drafted was Keenan Lewis, whom they failed to properly identify as an impact player and did not retain. We'll see about safety Shamarko Thomas and highly paid corner Cortez Allen.

Analyzing drafts is a fluid exercise. Perceptions change fast as players rise and fall. At the moment, it appears the Steelers have drafted way better than commonly believed.

They must have.

Look at the standings.





Hopefully Shazier can make a big play or two. I think Tuitt is the key for a playoff run.

 

[Drink IRON City]

http://triblive.com/mobile/7427040-96/steelers-colbert-round

Starkey: Tomlin/Colbert drafts deserve another look
By Joe Starkey Freelance Columnist
Saturday, Dec. 27, 2014, 10:33 p.m.
Updated 12 hours ago

1 4 0
Google +
Reddit

Blogger

Lookie here: The Steelers, with a playoff spot clinched, tied for third most in the NFL with five players voted to the Pro Bowl and easily could have had more.

That tells me they are well-stocked with high-end talent.

The Steelers, with a division title at stake Sunday night, have transitioned from old, slow and done to young, fast and fun — especially on offense and excluding the secondary.

That tells me somebody must be drafting well because we know the Steelers do not play the high-stakes free agent game.

If Troy Polamalu and Ike Taylor don't start against the Cincinnati Bengals, only five of 22 starters from the lʍoq ɹǝdnS team of 2010 will start the game (not including William Gay and James Harrison, who left and came back).

In other words, the Steelers have completely reshaped their roster. And if this is indeed the other side of the rebuild, we will be forced to reconsider a few things.

First, we'll have to look back and say the transition wasn't nearly as painful as it could have been. The price for a massive overhaul is usually a lot steeper than two 8-8 seasons ending with near-playoff misses.

Second, and more to the point, we really must reappraise the quality of the Mike Tomlin/Kevin Colbert drafts, which are looking better every day.

Conventional wisdom would have you believe Tomlin and Colbert mangled multiple drafts and left the Steelers wanting at too many positions to be a serious contender. The flaw in that theory completely destroys it. The Steelers are a serious contender.

We know about the misses. Everybody misses. Some studies will tell you that even in the first round, the league-wide bust rate is about 40 percent. It only goes up after that. So we know all about the Ziggy Hoods and Curtis Browns. We know Dri Archer so far looks like Chris Rainey II, only Archer can't return kickoffs and was taken two rounds earlier.

To focus on the misses is to miss the point. Every team can look back on a lost draft class or two. The point is the Steelers have hit on enough picks — some of them grand slams — to make themselves a winner again.

Start with two of the NFL's most prolific players — Le'Veon Bell and Antonio Brown — on what has become the most prolific offense in franchise history. In any remix of their draft years, both would be legit top-five picks. The Steelers got Bell in the second round, Brown the sixth.

The Steelers found Brown with the 195th pick in 2010, the same year they drafted Maurkice Pouncey 18th overall. In my book, those two alone make that a great draft. Pouncey, despite losing a season to injury, is the most decorated offensive lineman of the 2010 draft with four Pro Bowl invites. The Steelers also got a couple of other legit NFL starters in Emmanuel Sanders and Jason Worilds.

How come we never talk about that draft?

Meanwhile, Markus Wheaton (third round, 2013) is developing nicely, and this year the Steelers snagged a game-changer in the fourth round (118th overall) in Martavis Bryant, who only has transformed the offense. Bryant set an NFL record with six touchdown catches in first four games.

Anybody giving Tomlin and Colbert credit for that pick?

David DeCastro was another nice catch. He is beginning to remind people of his number-sake, Alan Faneca. The Steelers took DeCastro with 24th pick in 2012, and that brings up another key point: Tomlin and Colbert never get a top-10 choice. Their highest selection has been 15th (twice).

One of their best picks was a seventh-rounder who has turned into a quality player at a premium position: left tackle. That would be Kelvin Beachum, the 248th selection in 2012.

Defensively, the record has not been as good, but there are bright spots. Lawrence Timmons (15th overall) and Heyward (31st) were brilliant picks. This year's second-rounder, Stephon Tuitt, played his best game against Kansas City and appears to be on the rise.

It's still too early to judge first-rounders Jarvis Jones and Ryan Shazier. You wonder what linebacker Sean Spence (third round, 2012) might have been had he not suffered a catastrophic knee injury.

If there is an area in which the Tomlin/Colbert union has failed, it's the secondary. The one elite cornerback they drafted was Keenan Lewis, whom they failed to properly identify as an impact player and did not retain. We'll see about safety Shamarko Thomas and highly paid corner Cortez Allen.

Analyzing drafts is a fluid exercise. Perceptions change fast as players rise and fall. At the moment, it appears the Steelers have drafted way better than commonly believed.

They must have.

Look at the standings.





Hopefully Shazier can make a big play or two. I think Tuitt is the key for a playoff run.

Yea, BUT, but,.............. there is no one on the roster from the 2008 or 2009 drafts..........?



Salute the nation

 

[Punxsutawney]

The article really doesn't prompt me to give Tombert's drafts another look, as it basically mirrors what I and others have been saying: they've done a terrific job on offense, particularly drafting and developing WRs, but have epically sh1t the bed "nursing home following taco night" style on defense.

Having one of, if not the, worst pass defenses in the league speaks for itself.

 

[FAB802]

Yea, BUT, but,.............. there is no one on the roster from the 2008 or 2009 drafts..........?



Salute the nation

I know this is probably sarcasm, but...2008 was a complete bust. Nobody can say 2009 wasn't a good draft just because none of the players are still here. They drafted guys who are starting on other teams and others who are still playing/contributing elsewhere.

Hood, Wallace, Lewis, Urbik, Shipley, Johnson and even Summers are still actively playing in the league. Seven out of nine with only one pick before the third round is pretty damn good if you ask me. If you want to complain that they let some players get away to other teams that may be valid, but you can't pay everybody, and there are only so many roster spots available at a time.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

The article really doesn't prompt me to give Tombert's drafts another look, as it basically mirrors what I and others have been saying: they've done a terrific job on offense, particularly drafting and developing WRs, but have epically sh1t the bed "nursing home following taco night" style on defense.

Having one of, if not the, worst pass defenses in the league speaks for itself.

So does having one of the best run defenses. Taken together it says that the defense is in the same transition period that the offense was in two years ago. Also, as people are fond of saying about the offense, the pass defense rating is based on yardage, not scoring. Overall, we are still a middle of the road defense in scoring (19th). However, over the last four games, this defense has allowed an average of 17.4 pts/game. Almost a touchdown less than their season average, and an average that would be place them in the top three in the NFL over the course of a full season.

Is the defense's points/game average over the last four games an anomaly or a sign of improved defense? I guess we'll see in the playoffs.

 

[Wingman]

I know this is probably sarcasm, but...2008 was a complete bust. Nobody can say 2009 wasn't a good draft just because none of the players are still here. They drafted guys who are starting on other teams and others who are still playing/contributing elsewhere.

Hood, Wallace, Lewis, Urbik, Shipley, Johnson and even Summers are still actively playing in the league. Seven out of nine with only one pick before the third round is pretty damn good if you ask me. If you want to complain that they let some players get away to other teams that may be valid, but you can't pay everybody, and there are only so many roster spots available at a time.

I follow your logic but disagree for the following reason. Each draft if you are going to build your team through the draft you not only need to find players but you typically need to keep three that will play on your team. Some of those players you mentioned were released before the season started and did not make the team. It is not as if they all were stars that became cap casualties. The fact that we went with out a player on the team for two years when we still had players drafted from previous years on the team shows how poor those drafts were.

Fortunately the drafts appear to have been getting better. Improvement is a good thing. Manipulation of past records to improve ones standing is not.

 

[Steel Not A Player]

I follow your logic but disagree for the following reason. Each draft if you are going to build your team through the draft you not only need to find players but you typically need to keep three that will play on your team. Some of those players you mentioned were released before the season started and did not make the team. It is not as if they all were stars that became cap casualties. The fact that we went with out a player on the team for two years when we still had players drafted from previous years on the team shows how poor those drafts were.

Fortunately the drafts appear to have been getting better. Improvement is a good thing. Manipulation of past records to improve ones standing is not.

The offense is loaded, young and pretty well locked in under contract for while, so we can really focus on defense the next 2 years. Where it gets ugly is 4 years from now when Ben is on his way to retirement and our young stars are all looking for their payday.

 

[Wingman]

The offense is loaded, young and pretty well locked in under contract for while, so we can really focus on defense the next 2 years. Where it gets ugly is 4 years from now when Ben is on his way to retirement and our young stars are all looking for their payday.

Might get ugly sooner than that if we don't really start looking for Ben's replacement soon. The team may do very well this year do to a bunch of guys over achieving. Our defense is likely to loose a lot of older talent in the off season and have many more needs than we can draft. If we look at a good rule of thumb as finding three capable players every draft we are looking at a while to get back into it. Even if you find four good ones in each of the next two years it will still be maybe the third year before we start to catch up. We have also had our practice squad raided of defensive lineman recently and they may hurt us as well.

I hope the team does real well this year as we may take a nose dive soon while rebuilding the defense. The only good thing about the nose dive would be it could really help getting players a bit quicker.

 

[Steel Not A Player]

Might get ugly sooner than that if we don't really start looking for Ben's replacement soon. The team may do very well this year do to a bunch of guys over achieving. Our defense is likely to loose a lot of older talent in the off season and have many more needs than we can draft. If we look at a good rule of thumb as finding three capable players every draft we are looking at a while to get back into it. Even if you find four good ones in each of the next two years it will still be maybe the third year before we start to catch up. We have also had our practice squad raided of defensive lineman recently and they may hurt us as well.

I hope the team does real well this year as we may take a nose dive soon while rebuilding the defense. The only good thing about the nose dive would be it could really help getting players a bit quicker.

For QBs this year is a loser. The talent will be gone by the time we pick with Mariota and Winston going top 10. Hundley and Prescott are worm killers with accuracy issue and Petty is another spread quarterback like the guy before him, RG3.

Maybe next year.

 

[Superman]

Ben is 32.
We do not need a replacement for him until 3-4 years down the road. Whomever we get to replace Ben is either a freshman in college right now or a senior in high school.

 

[Steel Not A Player]

Ben is 32.
We do not need a replacement for him until 3-4 years down the road. Whomever we get to replace Ben is either a freshman in college right now or a senior in high school.

My original assessment, but Wingman seems worried about it.

Seemed wrong not to comfort him...

 

[Wingman]

I think we will need one sooner than that supe. I am not sure how much longer Ben's arm will hold up.

 

[Wingman]

My original assessment, but Wingman seems worried about it.

Seemed wrong not to comfort him...

I do not need comforted but your thoughts are appreciated. I would also like to have the luxury of developing his replacement for a while instead of dumping a rookie into the game early on. I know it worked with Ben but those conditions are long gone. Also I think you might be spot on with your assessment of the talent in the next draft as it relates to the qb position.

 

[Bigappleyinzer]

Please God-

No to Christian Hackenberg in 2016

 

[Tibs]

Congratulations Coach Tomlin for leading the team to the AFC North title! You have proven - once again - you are the man for the job. Now let's take down the Ratbirds!