What I Watched go Down at Disney

[Steeltime]

Skin color has basically nothing to do with the points raised. Did you know that as of 1930, less than 15% of African-American children were born out of wedlock?

The sea-change in our nation was the onslaught of out-of-wedlock births, almost all of which are households with no fathers.

The result is poverty for the mother, since she cannot afford to work and care for her child(ren). She therefore stays home and relies on government generosity.

With no father, the young males find guidance in singers, or athletes, or older siblings, or older males in the neighborhood. Unfortunately, relying on strangers to provide guidance to young males is a recipe for what we have now.

It has nothing to do with skin color. If whites were born 72% into single-parent (mothers only) households, and white males relied on strangers for guidance on how to be a man, while African-Americans were born into 73% two-parent households, then this thread would be about young white males who show a lack of respect for their fellow citizens.

There is absolutely NOTHING about skin color that is causing the breakdown of the family unit, the disappearance of fathers in African-American families, and the resulting disintegration of behavior among young males reared in homes with no father.*

* I spent a lot of time raising my son - a LOT. He was a handful at times. But even through some rough stretches, he relied on me, and I made sure to watch out for him. He grew into a really good young man. He respects others, is funny and generous, and would not disrespect you as a person or your property. I was very proud of him the day we took a subway to Yankee stadium to watch a game in 2012, and he immediately stood up and gave up his seat when an elderly couple boarded the train.

Does anybody really think he does not benefit from a father who spent so much time with him, and cared about him, and talked to him about how to treat people, and told him what he needed to do to succeed?

Do we think he is the same person if I am never in his life? And his mother - an amazing person - was expected to raise him by herself, with no male presence in the household?

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

Steeltime, that pretty much sums it up. We can't say for sure what would happen if 72% of whites were born out of wed-lock, but it's a near certainty it would be similar. Allen West alludes to many of the points discussed, in this article below, that you might enjoy:

http://allenbwest.com/2014/12/dont-usually-play-race-card/

Let me start by saying it will have nothing to with how the white man has kept me down. As a matter of fact, what I have achieved could only have happened in America.

I was born and raised in the inner city of Atlanta, Georgia, in the same 4th Ward neighborhood that claimed Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. as a favored son. My own elementary school, Our Lady of Lourdes, is located at the corner of Boulevard and the historic Auburn Avenue – near Ebenezer Baptist Church and Dr. King’s familial home just around the corner.

I grew up quite proud of my American black heritage and still am. I recall days walking down Auburn Ave. past the offices of black professionals — doctors, lawyers, and such — as well as black-owned small businesses on my way to the historic Butler Street YMCA where I learned to swim, play basketball, and box. Funny thing — when Dr. King was assassinated, I don’t remember anyone rioting and setting fire to businesses in my neighborhood.

I grew up in a simple two-parent home at 651 Kennesaw Avenue NE — I tell the story of Buck and Snooks West in my book, Guardian of the Republic. As it happens, Buck and Snooks were registered Democrats, and I had a blast telling Rep. John Lewis how I remembered as a boy my folks talking about him and voting for him.

My memories of the black community growing up were centered on faith, family, education, personal responsibility, self-reliance, and for my family — service to the nation in uniform. Those ladies and gents are conservative principles and values — or as I was wrote here — classical liberal principles.

My parents stressed not just to me and my brothers, but to our larger family and relations, that you should never allow yourself to be dependent upon someone else. As Mom would say, “self-esteem comes from doing ‘esteemable’ things.” She also drilled into my head that, “a man must stand for something or else he will fall for anything.”

Sadly enough today, if you are a black American standing for conservative principles and values — which are the foundation of the black community and what were once its strength — you are a target.

It’s white liberals who find themselves abhorring the existence of any minority that rejects their progressive socialist collective ideology and seeks to “think for themselves.”

You become the “uppity negro” and are derided with such loving terms of endearment as “House Ni!@er,” “Sellout,” “Uncle Tom,” and “Oreo.” Even worse, white liberals have co-opted other blacks to join in the mob-like attacks against those of us who just — well, embody those old school values in which parents (when there were a preponderance of two-parent homes) in the black community instructed us.

Then again, it was the Great Society policies of a progressive socialist big government Democrat president from Texas named Lyndon Baines Johnson that began the decimation of the black family. It resulting in today’s out of wedlock birth rate of nearly 72 percent — all because it was believed that rewarding a woman for having a child out of wedlock with a government check — as long as she kept the man out of the home — was a good thing.

So, in my black community, the venerable and strong black man who survived slavery, Jim Crow, the KKK, segregation, poll taxes, literacy tests (all from the same Democrat party) was finally killed off virtually — and literally in some cases through inner city gang violence — by Democrat policy.

And so it goes that the plantation has been restored, but this time it is a 21st century economic plantation of servitude and submission to the welfare nanny-state.

 

[Lmob0621]

YOU DON'T ATTRIBUTE THE VIOLENCE TO THEIR WHITENESS. And THAT is what makes you racist ********.

Sort of like White on Black murder = Hate Crime and Black on White murder = crickets chirping? Or is that not supportive of your agenda?

 

[Steel Not A Player]

I was prepared to stand on my statement and let it go. But since I was personally asked to respond to this post, I will do so. Someone above asked why we can't have a rational debate about race, and my answer is that we can just no on this board. On this board whites are all innocent victims, there is no such thing as white racism, and Blacks are the bane of American existence. That's the narrative that the majority in G&G push, and anyone who refutes it is a "libtard". The men on this board who have it in for Black people are NOT INTERESTED in having a rational debate on race. They will not recognize anything negative that whites do, while at the same time decrying anything negative that Blacks do.

It is nakedly obvious that you don't like Black people. And that's fine. It's your business. This is America, you can hate whomever you want, it's not a crime. But lets not pretend it's something it's not.

Now, by request, my response to DBS...

So its racist to talk about black people behaving badly and point it out.

It is racist to do so given how badly whites behave as well. None of the things discussed in this thread are localized to the Black community. White people do these things too, but somehow it's not attributed to race.

You give some examples of whites behaving badly and ask why we don't attribute it to their whiteness. Well the main reason is that it is recognizable as aberrant behavior and no one in the white community blames society for the personal actions of individuals.

Patently false. From Columbine to Brittany Spears, society is blamed for the bad actions of white people. There is literally no truth to your statement. Your problem is with leftists, not Blacks. Leftists blame EVERYTHING on society because personal accountability is abhorrent to them. See the entire 3rd wave feminist platform.

Conversely this type of behavior seems to be commonplace in black inner-city youth and the black community excuses it and blames society and not the individuals involved.

Do you not use Youtube. This kind of behavior is commonplace in redneck and trailer park communities too. Guess who lives there? White people. Poor and uneducated people in general tend to act without regard to consequence, particularly when young. This is true throughout the world. You name an urban environment with large numbers of poor and uneducated people and you will find reckless and violent young people there. Moscow, Bangkok, Rio De Janeiro, London. Those British football hooligans who have raised so much hell? Almost exclusively white. Australia, same.

The people who want to make it a race issue are the people who have race issues.

Someone posted a graphic of police shooting victims broken down by race and there were way more whites than blacks shot by police officers. The key difference is that whites didn't blame police officers for shooting white criminals. White folks didn't riot and burn down the towns they live in over it and they didn't blame the police they blame the criminal. Hell even when police shoot or brutalize a white citizen and it can be objectively proven the police acted outside their lawful use of force authority white people don't riot.

None of that is true. There was much outrage by whites when the homeless man was attacked by the police dog, on tape, and then shot to death. Whites in general do not feel targeted by the police, Blacks do. That is the difference. Whether or not Blacks are indeed targeted specifically by the police because of race is a matter of debate, but that is where the hostility comes from. Moreover, conservatism is inherently authoritarian. As such, conservative whites tend to worship the police, their aggressive tactics, because they believe that poor people "deserve" to be put in line. They don't think it will ever happen to them. When Blacks see another Black strangled and crushed to death by cops, they immediately think "that could happen to me".

And It may be because I am white but no I don't understand why anyone would want to get into a 80+ person gang fight at a theme park.

I would be here all day recounting stories of white kids doing similar ****, on college campuses no less. But again, the need to attribute any of this directly to race is what makes the discussion racist. White people **** up. They get drunk and riot after football games. No one attributes it to them being white. But if Blacks riot, it's attributed to their Blackness. That is textbook racism.

It may be because I am white that I don't understand why so many black women would want to have multiple children by multiple men just to get enough of somebody elses money from government redistribution to subsist in poverty rather than working.

You just got done talking about how most people shot by cops are white. Most "welfare mothers" are white. But when white women in the trailer park are punching out cubs every year for the state money, you don't attribute it to her whiteness. Why? Why is it that it's only about race when Black people do it?

It may be because I am white that I don't understand why many black men have unprotected sex knowing exactly how pregnancy occurs and then abandon the children they sire.

White men don't abandon their kids? Really? That's just an insane statement. Of course they do. Is the family dynamic worse in the Black community? Absolutely. When integration happened all the leadership in our communities, the Black professionals, and educated folk left for the suburbs, now that they could. All that was left in the Black communities were the poor and uneducated who couldn't afford to leave. Add in the massive influx of drugs created by Nixon's drug wars (prohibition necessarily creates aggressive black markets) and you have a recipe for disaster. These things have happened to poor whites as well, just on a lesser scale. See the midwestern meth epidemic.

It may be because I am white that I don't understand why the black community at large attacks blacks that get educated, have careers and raise their children calling them Uncle Toms, House Niggers and Sell Outs.

Haters gonna hate, and rednecks do the same ****. Hell, religious whites are some of the biggest promoters of willful ignorance, regardless of socioeconomic class. Have you listened to a religious debate on "intelligent" design, and all the vitriol that is hurled at science by the ignorance promoting clergy? Hate and jealousy toward the educated and successful is not even remotely localized to Black people. It is a universal problem. The haves will always be resented by the have-nots.

It may be because I am white that I don't understand why with the same public school systems blacks have a much higher drop out rate than whites and black parents don't seem to stress education to their children.

Correct for socioeconomic class and those numbers get a lot closer to each other. Middle class Blacks tend to perform on par with middle class whites, and lower class whites tend to lag some distance behind the curve as well. There are some systemic problems with our education system, but the larger problem is that poor people tend to not be interested in education. Their families are ****** up, for reasons already discussed, and education is not a priority. This is not a race issue, and is true throughout the world.

Perhaps you can enlighten me.

Enlightenment comes from within. Critical thinking skills are sorely lacking in the United States. When people come across a fact that contradicts their world view in America, they tend to reject the fact rather than reconstituting their world view. This retards the public debate on virtually every issue.

 

[ark steel]

On this board whites are all innocent victims, there is no such thing as white racism, and Blacks are the bane of American existence.

I would venture to guess that you do not understand sarcasm or completely miss that some of us, often, use extremes to make a point.

I've never met most of the people on this board but I can assure you that the vast majority of us do NOT believe what you think we do as quoted above. I don't KNOW that Ed didn't have a party to celebrate Zimmerman getting away with murdering Trayvon, but I suspect that he didn't. If he did have a party, it was because threats of mass uprisings and riots didn't pervert due process when politicians were trying to do so.

I suspect he didn't have any party, at all, because he is a dirty ravens fan with no friends.

 

[DBS1970]

PART 1

Thank you for your response.

It is racist to do so given how badly whites behave as well. None of the things discussed in this thread are localized to the Black community. White people do these things too, but somehow it's not attributed to race.

In the context we are discussing here? We are talking about a specific incident. Been white my whole life, been around white folks my whole life never seen a mass of white people get in a gang fight. I have seen individuals fight but never a huge gang fight. I have personally seen groups of up to 20 young black men fight for reasons unknown to me.

Patently false. From Columbine to Brittany Spears, society is blamed for the bad actions of white people. There is literally no truth to your statement. Your problem is with leftists, not Blacks. Leftists blame EVERYTHING on society because personal accountability is abhorrent to them. See the entire 3rd wave feminist platform.

I can recall people blaming the parents of the Columbine Shooters for not supervising them. Particularly the parents of Kliebold I believe it was, for not insuring he was taking his meds for Bi-Polar disorder. There was a lame attempt by the Anti-Gun crowd to blame violent video games and fire arms but most everyone I know blamed the shooters not society. Britney Spears? I can remember people lamenting that she was a pop culture Icon while being an obvious drug addled train wreck but no body blamed society for it. It was lamented that she was a blight on our society but not that society caused her to do what she did and excused her for it. I do agree with you on the politics of victimhood that the political left uses. I do not separate 3rd wave feminism from leftist politics because both are really just Neo-Socialist realpolitik.

Do you not use Youtube. This kind of behavior is commonplace in redneck and trailer park communities too. Guess who lives there? White people. Poor and uneducated people in general tend to act without regard to consequence, particularly when young. This is true throughout the world. You name an urban environment with large numbers of poor and uneducated people and you will find reckless and violent young people there. Moscow, Bangkok, Rio De Janeiro, London. Those British football hooligans who have raised so much hell? Almost exclusively white. Australia, same.

The people who want to make it a race issue are the people who have race issues.

Where are the videos on YouTube of young white males playing "The Knockout Game"? There is a difference between tomfoolery and drunken brawling between to people and waylaying innocent unsuspecting victims. There is a higher incidence of street crime in poor urban areas, I don't dispute that. What you don't see is the blanket excuses given by supposed leaders of the community like you do here by the likes of Sharpton and Jackson. Soccer Hooligans, yes their behavior is riotous, but generally speaking they aren't burning and looting whole sections of town and no one is offering caveats about how they are only doing it out of frustration over injustice. Finally just because someone doesn't accept your position on the subject of race without offering feed back or a differing opinion doesn't mean they are racist. I would say that you are trying to shut down actual debate when you start calling people racists and using euphemistic terms like "race issues".

None of that is true. There was much outrage by whites when the homeless man was attacked by the police dog, on tape, and then shot to death. Whites in general do not feel targeted by the police, Blacks do. That is the difference. Whether or not Blacks are indeed targeted specifically by the police because of race is a matter of debate, but that is where the hostility comes from. Moreover, conservatism is inherently authoritarian. As such, conservative whites tend to worship the police, their aggressive tactics, because they believe that poor people "deserve" to be put in line. They don't think it will ever happen to them. When Blacks see another Black strangled and crushed to death by cops, they immediately think "that could happen to me".

There was outrage in some quarters yes. There were protests and strongly worded letters to the editor from some. Rioting and looting...not so much. I will agree there is a good deal too much leeway given to LEOs and Police Agencies. Probably because there are too many police procedurals on TV where the Cops are always the good guy and they rarely get it wrong and always catch the bad guy. I would disagree that conservatism is authoritarian, there is a great deal of emphasis on playing by the rules and not committing crimes and doing the right thing in conservative circles though. But white people are starting to wake up to the expanding police state and those like me who have always known it could happen to us too have been preaching to other whites about that. I have been profiled police before. Why? Because I was a white person in a neighborhood where white folks don't generally come into unless they are looking to purchase drugs or procure a prostitute. I didn't particularly like it but it is part of the reality of police work. You develop profiles because generally they are accurate and spotting what is out of place via profiling is 50% of investigation. I believe we may actually have some common ground here on some of these issues.

I would be here all day recounting stories of white kids doing similar ****, on college campuses no less. But again, the need to attribute any of this directly to race is what makes the discussion racist. White people **** up. They get drunk and riot after football games. No one attributes it to them being white. But if Blacks riot, it's attributed to their Blackness. That is textbook racism.

Please cite some. White college students playing the knock out game, getting into gang fights and rioting on campus?

You just got done talking about how most people shot by cops are white. Most "welfare mothers" are white. But when white women in the trailer park are punching out cubs every year for the state money, you don't attribute it to her whiteness. Why? Why is it that it's only about race when Black people do it?

Well there is the fact that blacks are only 13% of the population. Per capita the participation rate for social programs among blacks is much higher. And except for a few black voices I don't hear black leadership condemning it and at any level. What I do hear is calls for more subsidy of sloth and failure from the bulk of black community leaders. That includes black politicians and college professors right along with the likes of Jackson and Sharpton. But when Doctors Thomas Sowell and Walter E. Williams or LTC Allen West say things about breaking the cycle, graduating high school and cultivating job skills and work ethic the shouts of "Uncle Tom", "Sell Out" and "House Nigger" get hurled at them like rocks. Conversely whites frown on the "Trailer Trash". We tend to police our own in that respect and at least try to put social pressure on the low end of white society to try and move up and be productive.

White men don't abandon their kids? Really? That's just an insane statement. Of course they do. Is the family dynamic worse in the Black community? Absolutely. When integration happened all the leadership in our communities, the Black professionals, and educated folk left for the suburbs, now that they could. All that was left in the Black communities were the poor and uneducated who couldn't afford to leave. Add in the massive influx of drugs created by Nixon's drug wars (prohibition necessarily creates aggressive black markets) and you have a recipe for disaster. These things have happened to poor whites as well, just on a lesser scale. See the midwestern meth epidemic.

I never said that white men don't abandon their kids. Per Capita it happens much less among whites. It is still FAR from the norm in white families. That may be that most whites are still well educated enough to realize that dependence on the dole is a form of slavery. In a very large swath of the black community though the norm is fatherless families. And when those educated black professionals you mentioned speak out against the out of wedlock births and dependency created by LBJs War on Poverty what happens? Uncle Tom. House Nigger. Sellout.

Part one

 

[DBS1970]

PART 2

Haters gonna hate, and rednecks do the same ****. Hell, religious whites are some of the biggest promoters of willful ignorance, regardless of socioeconomic class. Have you listened to a religious debate on "intelligent" design, and all the vitriol that is hurled at science by the ignorance promoting clergy? Hate and jealousy toward the educated and successful is not even remotely localized to Black people. It is a universal problem. The haves will always be resented by the have-nots.

I'm not sure why you went off on a tangent about clergy. As to "haters gonna hate" You know that sounds like a cop out to me. I have never in my life heard a redneck complain that a doctor, lawyer or successful businessman was acting too white. I will grant there is a certain amount of self pity and excuse making but by and large whites put the station in life a person rises to or fails to rise to on the individual. The notable exception being those on the political left of course.

Correct for socioeconomic class and those numbers get a lot closer to each other. Middle class Blacks tend to perform on par with middle class whites, and lower class whites tend to lag some distance behind the curve as well. There are some systemic problems with our education system, but the larger problem is that poor people tend to not be interested in education. Their families are ****** up, for reasons already discussed, and education is not a priority. This is not a race issue, and is true throughout the world.

Indeed there is a problem with incomplete family units failing to raise children to be productive functioning adults. Whites don't tend to openly discourage those seeking to better themselves though. I would like to see more emphasis from black politicians and community leaders on removing the stigma on achievement in education. Learning academic subjects and job skills should not be derided as acting too white.

Enlightenment comes from within. Critical thinking skills are sorely lacking in the United States. When people come across a fact that contradicts their world view in America, they tend to reject the fact rather than reconstituting their world view. This retards the public debate on virtually every issue.

I would say that enlightenment comes from honest debate and open conversation. I would also say that making an assertion does not make it a fact. If a person wishes to change another persons point of view they should stay engaged in the conversation rather than shouting "RACISM! and storming off.

 

[CharlesDavenport]

Medved had a good point of view on this idea that having a "discussion" about race would make things better, or is just generally a good thing. His analogy was that if you are married to someone of a different religious faith, would it be helpful to constantly be talking about it? Is it helpful to keep picking at a scab? You get the drift. His theory is that democrats want to keep talking about it because they need it to be bad. Interesting.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

I was prepared to stand on my statement and let it go. But since I was personally asked to respond to this post, I will do so. Someone above asked why we can't have a rational debate about race, and my answer is that we can just no on this board. On this board whites are all innocent victims, there is no such thing as white racism, and Blacks are the bane of American existence. That's the narrative that the majority in G&G push, and anyone who refutes it is a "libtard". The men on this board who have it in for Black people are NOT INTERESTED in having a rational debate on race. They will not recognize anything negative that whites do, while at the same time decrying anything negative that Blacks do.

It is nakedly obvious that you don't like Black people. And that's fine.

I can't add a single thing to DBS' rebuttal. He's painted you back into a corner...again.

But I will say, this is the most Libtard (yes, you earned it) post I've seen on this board in some time. Why?

-- You over-generalize and pre-judge. You apply a label to the whole with little substance or justification. This is a typical Libtard tactic. When the facts fail, call the opponent out. Call them a "racist" and divert the conversation. Tell them they "all" fit into some despicable bucket you've described. Brilliant.

-- You're misinformed. Can you provide evidence of people on this board stating that all whites are innocent victims? Really? Blacks are the bane of American existence? How so? Who's said this is the case? Links and references, please.

-- You're wrong. The people on this board aren't interested in having a debate on race? Foremost, we don't have a choice. It's forced upon us by the MSM every day by their own race-baiting-driven agenda...and sadly, by this administration bent on dividing the country on race. That said, why do you think I wrote the original post I did? You'll say it was racism (despite reading the details of what I do daily, how I live with and interact with African Americans daily, what I do with them) despite the writing and intent to the contrary. But the real reason was I was "disturbed" and I'm trying to understand. Am I the only person to witness these behaviors? Why did these actions happen? Like DBS, I've lived 46 years on this planet and have never seen a gang of 80 whites sprint towards violence the way I did last week. I've spent 15 years so far raising 2 boys in a multi-cultural environment, and have never seen kids "snap" like I did last week. I've attended thousands of sporting events - national (Super Bowls), regional, and local, and have never seen riots. I've traveled the globe, and lived overseas, even in riot-prone soccer European countries (egads!). Yet last week was EYE OPENING for me. I saw behaviors...let me repeat that...behaviors that I've never witnessed before. And I've had plenty of opportunity to do so. So the discussion was brought up to discuss why, have others seen similar, why did I see what I saw, and why did it occur?

This white American man, who has African American kids sleep in his home, who hugs, feeds and provides at times for these boys, who cries with these boys, is as objective as can be. Beyond my mother being my primary #1 hero, who was a single mother to me growing up, my hero is Malcolm X (I'll save why for another discussion). I'm profoundly fond of Allen West and Dr. Ben Carson and Martin Luther King, and at a local level, I won't count the number of multi-cultural influences and friends and associates who positively influence my life. When you make statements such as "They will not recognize anything negative that whites do, while at the same time decrying anything negative that Blacks do" you earn the label Libtard. Because you embody "Liberal" + "Retard". You speak so boldly of what you know so very little about.

And your post...while you'll never see it...is racist. Stop and think about it.

 

[DBS1970]

I want to ad something to this that I should have in the beginning. I am talking specifically about things that happen in Urban black culture. It isn't a Genetic/Race argument.

 

[SteelChip]

Meanwhile, today in Ferguson

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