What is Tomlin's record vs. 25% winning record teams or lower?

[CharlesDavenport]

Ben Roethlisberger came to Mike Tomlin's defense this week, as Pittsburgh's coach has come under some media scrutiny after consecutive losses to the Dolphins and Patriots.

Speaking on 93.7 "The Fan" in Pittsburgh on Tuesday, Big Ben stood up for his coach, shortly after the team's 27-16 loss to New England that dropped the Steelers to 4-3 heading into their bye week. Specifically, Roethlisberger defended Tomlin's 5-11 record in their past 16 game against losing teams on the road.

“I think maybe people play up to us,” Ben said while saying that he doesn't think that the team plays down to it's competition. “I don’t know. I know that there is a bad record there. I can’t say it’s his [Mike Tomlin’s] record, because I’ve probably played in a lot of those games. Our record is not good and it’s frustrating. I don’t know if there is any particular reason, if there was, I think we would get it fixed. We need to play as well as we can no matter who we’re playing.


"It's not like we say, 'Ok this is their record, this one's a win, let's move on.' We don't do that. So I don't think there's any less preparation. We don't cut meetings short. Everything is the same."

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Ben's comments came shortly after several members of the media, including Colin Cowherd of Fox Sports, ripped Tomlin for his lack of success against losing teams.

"I look at Pittsburgh, they're bad against bad teams," Cowherd said. "They go in cocky or unprepared. They get players regulary suspended, they're overly reliant on Big Ben. I don't think they're a well coached team week to week. They are not buttoned up. That is coaching, that is not talent."


Posted again because obviously you didn't see it the first time..so who's account shall I believe Ben's or your speculation

Everybody saw that and Starkey's article, previously linked to - http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/...d-use-a-slice-of-reality/stories/201610270026

does a perfect takedown of that delusional crap -

“I think maybe people play up to us,” Roethlisberger said.

Play up?

Up to where?

Roethlisberger makes it sound as if the Steelers are living among the NFL’s elite. Like they are a standard by which others measure themselves.

It’s as if the players are saying, “We’re the team everybody circles on the schedule. We’re special”

What, the Patriots don’t get everyone’s best shot?

It almost sounds as if the Steelers are claiming to be victims of their own success, to which I would ask: What success?

The history speaks for itself. I’m not talking about the six Lombardi trophies behind glass on the South Side or Roethlisberger’s many accomplishments. I’m talking about the majority of players on this team. The current core.

I’m talking about the past five-plus years.

The Steelers since 2010 are little more than a garden-variety washout. They have to their credit — wait, let me count ’em — one playoff win since then. And they only won that game because the Cincinnati Bengals are stocked with morons. And because Rex Ryan got the Steelers into the playoffs after they lost to Ryan Mallet and the injury ravaged Ravens in Week 16.

Maybe one step toward correcting this team’s issues is for players to acknowledge their commonness as a group. And to admit that their high opinion of themselves might be part of the problem when it comes to ludicrous losses such as the one in Baltimore last season, or the one in Miami two weeks ago, or the one to Tampa Bay in 2014.

Maybe it’s time for this team to grow up.

 

[antdrewjosh]

Regardless if the current crop hasn't won a thing except for a few they still have to live and play under the Shadow of those rings. So yes what Ben is saying makes sense..think about it the Cowboys haven't won since 95 but the Steelers and Cowboys is still a huge game. We are still held to the history behind us whether we like it or not. Teams get up for us because we are a elite franchise whether we are playing like it or not. It's part of being a Pittsburgh Steeler.

This team is young in a lot of spots. And until these guys mature and realize that teams are going to play us like its the lowB repuS every week we get the clunker games. And I know yes it's Tomlin's job to to have them ready. But seriously players have to mature as players and men too.

 

[Coryea]

But the offense is only built around one. The QB.

There's still an oline that can play like ****, there are still WR's that can run wrong routes and drop passes. There's been games where the O left the field with the lead and the D allowed the winning score.

There's only one head coach as well

 

[antdrewjosh]

There's still an oline that can play like ****, there are still WR's that can run wrong routes and drop passes. There's been games where the O left the field with the lead and the D allowed the winning score.

There's only one head coach as well

18 picks 18 ints. Only one guy throws passes. And that doesn't even add in fumbles. If I'm a apologist for Tomlin then you are definitely one for Ben. The difference is we can only speculate on what Tomlin does or doesn't do. We can watch Ben. If the offense is going to go thru him and it does. He can't have as many clunkers as he does

 

[Coryea]

So what about the ints that go right through a WR's hands, or occur when WR's run wrong routes? I posted Bens stats in some if those games and you nit picked a few plays where Ben made bad throws or overthrew someone, how do you know all 18 of those picks are just on him?

I never said anything about you being a Tomlin apologist, I like Tomlin and don't want him fired. I'm not putting all the losses on him either.

 

[CharlesDavenport]

The external motivation thing is irritating. Since Cowher the Steelers have always seemed to need some sort of extra emotional fuel to play their best. Not a formula for consistent success IMO. Noll was famous for being terrible at that ****, and he didn't believe in it. Different era I guess. The external motivation for that 70s team was the expectations from the rest of the team - all the time. Noll was a stickler for technique. He figured the rest would take care of itself. Those players would have made almost any coaching style look brilliant though. Didn't work so great in the Stallone era.

 

[antdrewjosh]

So what about the ints that go right through a WR's hands, or occur when WR's run wrong routes? I posted Bens stats in some if those games and you nit picked a few plays where Ben made bad throws or overthrew someone, how do you know all 18 of those picks are just on him?

I never said anything about you being a Tomlin apologist, I like Tomlin and don't want him fired. I'm not putting all the losses on him either.

Because I don't remember Alot of those and because this is something I've harped on about Ben for awhile. He goes thru periods of forcing things. It's all about the big play instead of being patient and taking what's there. Some guys you can still win they are not playing well. But some are the straw that stirs the drink..that's Ben. So unless we plan in being a more balanced offense Ben has to be on point. Nitpick no more like when it's crunch time I expect him to make franchise QB type plays.

 

[MTC]

The external motivation thing is irritating. Since Cowher the Steelers have always seemed to need some sort of extra emotional fuel to play their best. Not a formula for consistent success IMO. Noll was famous for being terrible at that ****, and he didn't believe in it. Different era I guess. The external motivation for that 70s team was the expectations from the rest of the team - all the time. Noll was a stickler for technique. He figured the rest would take care of itself. Those players would have made almost any coaching style look brilliant though. Didn't work so great in the Stallone era.

Football is an emotional sport. But being a pro should be encouraging enough to go out and play. I've noticed in sports too and not just football, that athletes need extra motivation now. Guys like Michael Jordan, Jack Lambert, Greg Lloyd, Barry Sanders, Wayne Gretzky, Ray Lewis. Etc. those were passionate athletes who perfected their craft. Coaches like Noll and even the dreaded hoodie focus on those fundamentals

 

[POP]

You ask me do I believe everything politicians say then proceed to bold a quote from Colin Cowherd. Makes sense

You mean sports analysts are politicians? Who knew. When a QB is trying to pimp his head coach, it is the same as politics.

 

[POP]

Football is an emotional sport. But being a pro should be encouraging enough to go out and play. I've noticed in sports too and not just football, that athletes need extra motivation now. Guys like Michael Jordan, Jack Lambert, Greg Lloyd, Barry Sanders, Wayne Gretzky, Ray Lewis. Etc. those were passionate athletes who perfected their craft. Coaches like Noll and even the dreaded hoodie focus on those fundamentals

The guys you mentioned are the best of the best. Do you honestly think all 53 players on a roster are the best of the best? You will only have a few per team; it's up to the coach to push and prepare the rest of them.

 

[MTC]

The guys you mentioned are the best of the best. Do you honestly think all 53 players on a roster are the best of the best? You will only have a few per team; it's up to the coach to push and prepare the rest of them.

My point being was these guys had motivation and passion to be the best. Something thats lacking in most teams today. The 2005 Steelers come to mind when it comes to heart. Not all the guys on that team were the best of the best but they knew their role. There's just a point. Where a team has it or they don't. I think this Steelers team has had it for awhile, but something is lacking

 

[Coryea]

The guys in the 70's were paid well, but not like today, they had to play for their careers and to make a living.

 

[antdrewjosh]

My point being was these guys had motivation and passion to be the best. Something thats lacking in most teams today. The 2005 Steelers come to mind when it comes to heart. Not all the guys on that team were the best of the best but they knew their role. There's just a point. Where a team has it or they don't. I think this Steelers team has had it for awhile, but something is lacking

The Steelers last year didn't show heart with the run they had and having Denver on the ropes even with all the injuries?? Apparently Tomlin cried addressing the team after the Denver game because he was proud of the way they fought

 

[topseed]

I really don't think the Rooney's paid him as a franchise QB for the Coach to have to keep him focused for road games

I know why the Rooneys pay Ben as a franchise quarterback. It's like GEICO saving you 15% on your car insurance. Everybody knows that.

The more interesting question is: Why do they pay Tomlin $7,000,000 a year (almost 50% higher than the league average) to not worry about keeping each and every one of his players, including the franchise quarterback, focused for road games? Ben is THE most important player on the team...it doesn't matter what his paycheck looks like, making sure he is prepared should be Tomlin's #1 priority, BECAUSE, as you've pointed out countless times already, Ben obviously hasn't been playing well on the road. Tomlin should address and try to help correct that shortfall, don't you think?

 

[SteelBuckeye]

I know why the Rooneys pay Ben as a franchise quarterback. It's like GEICO saving you 15% on your car insurance. Everybody knows that.

The more interesting question is: Why do they pay Tomlin $7,000,000 a year (almost 50% higher than the league average) to not worry about keeping each and every one of his players, including the franchise quarterback, focused for road games? Ben is THE most important player on the team...it doesn't matter what his paycheck looks like, making sure he is prepared should be Tomlin's #1 priority, BECAUSE, as you've pointed out countless times already, Ben obviously hasn't been playing well on the road. Tomlin should address and try to help correct that shortfall, don't you think?

Wait a minute, they don't have a meeting room for the QBs where they attempt to work out a game plan for/with Ben? They don't practice during the week? Because other than those two things what else should Tomlin do? Call Ben in the middle of the night with pop quizzes on the upcoming opponent's defensive alignments? Send Cheerleaders to his house? Tuck him in with milk and cookies and stories of great QBs from yesteryear?

I could give a damn about how the "modern athlete" needs to be motivated in different ways than past athletes. That's just a roundabout way of saying they're softer than their predecessors. Maybe they need less coddling and to be forced to accept more responsibility for themselves.

 

[antdrewjosh]

I know why the Rooneys pay Ben as a franchise quarterback. It's like GEICO saving you 15% on your car insurance. Everybody knows that.

The more interesting question is: Why do they pay Tomlin $7,000,000 a year (almost 50% higher than the league average) to not worry about keeping each and every one of his players, including the franchise quarterback, focused for road games? Ben is THE most important player on the team...it doesn't matter what his paycheck looks like, making sure he is prepared should be Tomlin's #1 priority, BECAUSE, as you've pointed out countless times already, Ben obviously hasn't been playing well on the road. Tomlin should address and try to help correct that shortfall, don't you think?

How about bench him and play Landry Jones... seriously what is he to do?? Ben is his best player most important player what is he to do. That's like asking Phil Jackson to bench Jordan when he wasn't playing well. Oh yeah that didn't happen much

 

[topseed]

Wait a minute, they don't have a meeting room for the QBs where they attempt to work out a game plan for/with Ben? They don't practice during the week? Because other than those two things what else should Tomlin do? Call Ben in the middle of the night with pop quizzes on the upcoming opponent's defensive alignments? Send Cheerleaders to his house? Tuck him in with milk and cookies and stories of great QBs from yesteryear?

I could give a damn about how the "modern athlete" needs to be motivated in different ways than past athletes. That's just a roundabout way of saying they're softer than their predecessors. Maybe they need less coddling and to be forced to accept more responsibility for themselves.

I'm talking about Ben's mental preparation. It's evident that Ben's home/road splits have become so very different...why is that? There's something there that needs to be addressed by Tomlin. Maybe the meetings and practices have become rote for Ben. Maybe Tomlin should try and develop some other approach to get him focused for road games. I don't know what the problem is, but standing pat isn't working.

Ben is the key. If Ben plays well, the Steelers usually win, no matter where the game is. Getting him right, whatever it takes, is paramount. If it's not Tomlin's responsibility to figure out why his franchise quarterback is struggling on the road, tell me...WHAT IS TOMLIN RESPONSIBLE FOR?

 

[topseed]

How about bench him and play Landry Jones... seriously what is he to do?? Ben is his best player most important player what is he to do. That's like asking Phil Jackson to bench Jordan when he wasn't playing well. Oh yeah that didn't happen much

Right. Once again, what is poor Mikey to do? There's so much that is just out of his hands, isn't there?

Elite quarterbacks should play well anywhere. We know that Ben is having struggles on the road. If I'm the head coach, I'm not just going to sit there and suck my thumb, I'm going to try and figure out what the ******* problem is, because Ben's play is the very most important determining factor of whether my team wins or loses. Is it the method of play-calling? Does he have trouble with crowd noise? He's in his mid-thirties now, maybe he needs a ******* hearing test. Is there another way to get the plays called? Should they just allow Ben to call the game, since he's displayed he can do that well? Should they script more/less plays to get Ben in a groove? Should they change their weekly approach for road games? Should they make some tweaks in practice that might help Ben be better prepared?

Naw, let's not ask the head coach to do ANYTHING.

 

[antdrewjosh]

I'm talking about Ben's mental preparation. It's evident that Ben's home/road splits have become so very different...why is that? There's something there that needs to be addressed by Tomlin. Maybe the meetings and practices have become rote for Ben. Maybe Tomlin should try and develop some other approach to get him focused for road games. I don't know what the problem is, but standing pat isn't working.

Ben is the key. If Ben plays well, the Steelers usually win, no matter where the game is. Getting him right, whatever it takes, is paramount. If it's not Tomlin's responsibility to figure out why his franchise quarterback is struggling on the road, tell me...WHAT IS TOMLIN RESPONSIBLE FOR?

Other then something off the field that could be contributing to it what is he to do besides hope the guy plays better.. he can't bench him. Now he could go to a game plan featuring less passes I guess.

 

[Coryea]

You can't compare Basketball to football, basketball is so much more of an individual sport.
Again you keep harping on Ben, but why does the rest of the team usually suck *** too? You make it sound like just Ben is off in those games, it's usually the entire damn team, like in Miami, our defense can stop their running game and we can't touch Tannehill, even though every other team beat the **** out of him.

 

[antdrewjosh]

You can't compare Basketball to football, basketball is so much more of an individual sport.
Again you keep harping on Ben, but why does the rest of the team usually suck *** too? You make it sound like just Ben is off in those games, it's usually the entire damn team, like in Miami, our defense can stop their running game and we can't touch Tannehill, even though every other team beat the **** out of him.

Im harping on Ben cause the offensive game plan is built around him playing well. All off season we were counting on the Offense to be lights out. We knew the defense was the weak side. And I'm not comparing the two sports I'm comparing the two best players. You can fill in any great player in any sport. What is the coach to do when his best player is struggling besides hope he works himself thru it.. besides sit him down(not an option) change the game plan to feature him less. That's an option a good one considering we could feature Bell more..I have no problem with that..but would Ben??

 

[SteelBuckeye]

It's a lot of work. And I'm not the one to do it. But, has anyone checked out the OL splits as far as sacks given on the road v. at home, penalties (false start, holding, etc) at home v. on the road? Heck, what's our ypc at home v. on the road? Dropped passes at home v. on the road? Seems to me that the whole offense tends to be out of sync on the road. Maybe that's a reflection of the QB. Maybe there are other factors at play also.

 

[antdrewjosh]

Right. Once again, what is poor Mikey to do? There's so much that is just out of his hands, isn't there?

Elite quarterbacks should play well anywhere. We know that Ben is having struggles on the road. If I'm the head coach, I'm not just going to sit there and suck my thumb, I'm going to try and figure out what the ******* problem is, because Ben's play is the very most important determining factor of whether my team wins or loses. Is it the method of play-calling? Does he have trouble with crowd noise? He's in his mid-thirties now, maybe he needs a ******* hearing test. Is there another way to get the plays called? Should they just allow Ben to call the game, since he's displayed he can do that well? Should they script more/less plays to get Ben in a groove? Should they change their weekly approach for road games? Should they make some tweaks in practice that might help Ben be better prepared?

Naw, let's not ask the head coach to do ANYTHING.

And you are asking questions that no one knows if they are being done or not ..you are just assuming nothing is being done..yet the QB has come out and said they are prepared and there is no let up from the coaches in preparation.

 

[Coryea]

Yeah we heard about this offense when we thought we had Bell, Bryant, Green, and a healthy Wheaton and Coates.

All we heard about in 08 was the defense, but the offense still stepped up when needed too.

We also have the best all-around back in the NFL, so when the oline isn't playing well or two of our top 3 WR's are hurt it'd be smart to rely on him some too. And no Ben wouldn't care, he's said multiple times he'll take wins over stats.

 

[topseed]

And you are asking questions that no one knows if they are being done or not ..you are just assuming nothing is being done..yet the QB has come out and said they are prepared and there is no let up from the coaches in preparation.

Wait, earlier you said there was nothing Tomlin could do. Now that I threw a bunch of suggestions out there, it's well, "no one knows if they are being done or not."
,
So which is it?