What's next on the bleeding heart Libtard agenda?

[Superman]

can we have free taxes - so that no minority or gender has to pay taxes to the Imperialistic Government created by the Caucasians?

 

[Confluence]

Obamacare has made US healthcare worse already. it is a ton more expensive. Insurance companies are pulling out of the exchanges. And, according to the experts, the worst hasn't even started yet. My one example was 100% true and there are thousands more in Canada. It is exactly as the GOP said a universal healthcare system would be. Too few doctors. Can't see your own doctor (already happening) and the government making your healthcare decisions and not your doctor. Just because you don't like the perfect 100% truthful example doesn't make it true. You can google and find tons of other examples in Canada like that. I just gave you one I am personally involved with.

Dude,

I am Canadian. My experience with the healthcare system, that of my wife and kids, that of my parents and siblings (and their kids), and that of my inlaws, their kids and grandkids has all been excellent.

I understand that their are problems at the edges, like in any system. I did not say it was perfect, or anything close.

Doctors in small towns and rural/remote areas have been problems for ages. It has to do with geography and perceived quality of life for the doctors family, not the system. Thankfully, technology is levelling this access quickly, so that the social and shopping needs of doctors' wives doesn't negatively affect the healthcare access of rural communities (YES, I have experienced this)

There are horror stories, and their some un-conscionable wait times. I get it, and I consider myself and my extended family to be very fortunate.

But that doesn't mean that you have any sense of the Canadian healthcare system, just like I don't have any sense of dealing with some insurance company regarding with what they might or might not cover.

Is it true that coverage for some issues might not be covered by all American private insurers? Even some? Or some procedures? I don't know, and won't opine that I know better because of politics and some utter bullshit, politically influenced at best, corporately influenced at worst, like you do above.

If your opinions are true, then it should be EASY for you to simply cite a certain American health insurance carrier's program as both superior and cheaper to the average Canadian situation.
Show me one, and I'll make sure you get a 24 from Canada, eh.

 

[Confluence]

And I'll raise you Triumph, April Wine, and Helix, but you Canucks can keep Celine Dione.

You forgot The Guess Who, BTO and The Tragically Hip. You get Biebs for free.

 

[DBS1970]

Dude,

I am Canadian. My experience with the healthcare system, that of my wife and kids, that of my parents and siblings (and their kids), and that of my inlaws, their kids and grandkids has all been excellent.

I understand that their are problems at the edges, like in any system. I did not say it was perfect, or anything close.

Doctors in small towns and rural/remote areas have been problems for ages. It has to do with geography and perceived quality of life for the doctors family, not the system. Thankfully, technology is levelling this access quickly, so that the social and shopping needs of doctors' wives doesn't negatively affect the healthcare access of rural communities (YES, I have experienced this)

There are horror stories, and their some un-conscionable wait times. I get it, and I consider myself and my extended family to be very fortunate.

But that doesn't mean that you have any sense of the Canadian healthcare system, just like I don't have any sense of dealing with some insurance company regarding with what they might or might not cover.

Is it true that coverage for some issues might not be covered by all American private insurers? Even some? Or some procedures? I don't know, and won't opine that I know better because of politics and some utter bullshit, politically influenced at best, corporately influenced at worst, like you do above.

If your opinions are true, then it should be EASY for you to simply cite a certain American health insurance carrier's program as both superior and cheaper to the average Canadian situation.
Show me one, and I'll make sure you get a 24 from Canada, eh.

Glad it works for you. You keep it and enjoy. I will keep the excellent coverage I have for 45 a week as I prefer that to having my taxes double.

 

[CharlesDavenport]

Dude,

I am Canadian. My experience with the healthcare system, that of my wife and kids, that of my parents and siblings (and their kids), and that of my inlaws, their kids and grandkids has all been excellent.

I understand that their are problems at the edges, like in any system. I did not say it was perfect, or anything close.

Doctors in small towns and rural/remote areas have been problems for ages. It has to do with geography and perceived quality of life for the doctors family, not the system. Thankfully, technology is levelling this access quickly, so that the social and shopping needs of doctors' wives doesn't negatively affect the healthcare access of rural communities (YES, I have experienced this)

There are horror stories, and their some un-conscionable wait times. I get it, and I consider myself and my extended family to be very fortunate.

But that doesn't mean that you have any sense of the Canadian healthcare system, just like I don't have any sense of dealing with some insurance company regarding with what they might or might not cover.

Is it true that coverage for some issues might not be covered by all American private insurers? Even some? Or some procedures? I don't know, and won't opine that I know better because of politics and some utter bullshit, politically influenced at best, corporately influenced at worst, like you do above.

If your opinions are true, then it should be EASY for you to simply cite a certain American health insurance carrier's program as both superior and cheaper to the average Canadian situation.
Show me one, and I'll make sure you get a 24 from Canada, eh.

If this article is correct, - http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/nadeem-esmail/canada-free-health-care_b_3733080.html -

In 2013, a typical Canadian family of four can expect to pay $11,320 for public health care insurance. For the average family of two parents with one child that bill will be $10,989, and for the average family of two adults (without children) the bill comes to $11,381. As a result of lower average incomes and differences in taxation, the bills are smaller for the average unattached individual ($3,780), for the average one-parent-one-child family ($3,905), and the average one-parent two-child family ($3,387). But no matter the family type, the bill is not small, much less free.

then just about every American health insurance carrier's program is superior and cheaper. We will lose these advantages as Obamacare creeps into the system.

 

[Yinzerlyn]

My coverage is 92 a month for me. Doable. If I were to cover Kat as well, it jumps from 92 a month (46 a paycheck) to 416 a month- 208 a paycheck!!!! It's nuts.

 

[Confluence]

If this article is correct, - http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/nadeem-esmail/canada-free-health-care_b_3733080.html - then just about every American health insurance carrier's program is superior and cheaper. We will lose these advantages as Obamacare creeps into the system.

Do you have a comparison of coverages and copays to go along with that?


DBS - $45 per week is $2340 per year. Is that universal with no copay? Per person or for an entire family?


Waiting times are routinely brought up in Canadian criticisms. What of wait times via US Health Insurers? There must be some data?

Don't get me wrong -- I am not suggesting Canadian healthcare doesn't have problems, but rather that the idealogues pointing out weaknesses are not comparing apples to apples and are therefore politicizing the commentary rather than actually making reasonable comparisons.

The PuffPost article was a survey of one set of views, not well articulated, other than to obliquely point out that the healthcare burden in Canada is mostly felt by those with higher taxable incomes -- horrific, eh?

 

[DBS1970]

Do you have a comparison of coverages and copays to go along with that?


DBS - $45 per week is $2340 per year. Is that universal with no copay? Per person or for an entire family?


Waiting times are routinely brought up in Canadian criticisms. What of wait times via US Health Insurers? There must be some data?

Don't get me wrong -- I am not suggesting Canadian healthcare doesn't have problems, but rather that the idealogues pointing out weaknesses are not comparing apples to apples and are therefore politicizing the commentary rather than actually making reasonable comparisons.

The PuffPost article was a survey of one set of views, not well articulated, other than to obliquely point out that the healthcare burden in Canada is mostly felt by those with higher taxable incomes -- horrific, eh?

That is for me and my 13 year old son. I still have copays but that is still much less for me than the tax structure needed for a Canadian style system.

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

Do you have a comparison of coverages and copays to go along with that?


DBS - $45 per week is $2340 per year. Is that universal with no copay? Per person or for an entire family?


Waiting times are routinely brought up in Canadian criticisms. What of wait times via US Health Insurers? There must be some data?

Don't get me wrong -- I am not suggesting Canadian healthcare doesn't have problems, but rather that the idealogues pointing out weaknesses are not comparing apples to apples and are therefore politicizing the commentary rather than actually making reasonable comparisons.

The PuffPost article was a survey of one set of views, not well articulated, other than to obliquely point out that the healthcare burden in Canada is mostly felt by those with higher taxable incomes -- horrific, eh?

US doesn't really have wait times. Insurance has nothing to do with wait times.

If you show up at an ER, the wait time depends on how many are in front of you. But the US has competition. There are many Urgent Care centers popping up that compete with the traditional hospital ER. Why? Because Americans don't like to wait so there is a market for them. As a result, there's a hospital now advertising a guaranteed 30 minute or less wait time. Competition makes everything better.

You may have to wait a week to get in to see your personal doctor if he has a ton of patients, but if you said it was an emergency, he'd see you that day. If you don't like waiting a week, you can go to a different Doc who has fewer patients and can see you quicker.


Copays? That depends. Most people get health insurance from their employer. The employer buys a plan for the employees and generally, the employer pays half and the employee pays half.

It's like buying car insurance. You want the cheap plan? It may not cover as much and will have a high deductible, but it will be cheaper per month. You want collision and everything covered and low copays? You can have that too but it will cost more per month.

This is where Obamacare started ******* things up. Most people were completely happy with their coverage. They had the right balance of coverage and cost. Now Obamacare mandates that plans cover absolutely everything, but most people don't want coverage for a sex change operation and other fringe things like that.

It's a myth that insurance companies just deny everything. Now, a procedure like an MRI may require a pre-approval to be covered. If you have bruise on your leg and want an MRI, the insurance won't approve because it's unnecessary. But the beauty is that if you still really want it, you can still get it. You will just have to pay for it yourself. It may cost you $2000 but you can then negotiate with the place that did the test and they will usually agree to take less if it is not covered and will let you pay monthly. You have choice.

That's a far better system than tearing your ACL and having to wait 6 months or just being told you are too old to need the ACL repaired so you can't have it done.

If the definition of good healthcare is how cheap it is on the front end and not counting the huge tax burden, then i guess Canada is good. I'd rather judge it based on having free choice, getting quality care, not having to wait, and paying a reasonable amount.

You get what you pay for. I don't know why people think something as important as healthcare should be "free". Take away competition, you get ****** service. Take away the ability for Doctors to make lots of money, and you will have fewer people bothering to become Doctors. They will choose other professions to get paid and there will be shittier Doctors.

My dad has to deal with the government VA healthcare and that gave me a taste of government run care. He saw a different Doc every few months who would repeat tests and do nothing for his problems with headaches and his eyes. After a few years, he went to a private eye doctor who found the problem in 1 visit, and scheduled the corrective surgery for the next week.

 

[CharlesDavenport]

Do you have a comparison of coverages and copays to go along with that?


DBS - $45 per week is $2340 per year. Is that universal with no copay? Per person or for an entire family?


Waiting times are routinely brought up in Canadian criticisms. What of wait times via US Health Insurers? There must be some data?

Don't get me wrong -- I am not suggesting Canadian healthcare doesn't have problems, but rather that the idealogues pointing out weaknesses are not comparing apples to apples and are therefore politicizing the commentary rather than actually making reasonable comparisons.

The PuffPost article was a survey of one set of views, not well articulated, other than to obliquely point out that the healthcare burden in Canada is mostly felt by those with higher taxable incomes -- horrific, eh?

For my family of four we pay $9,600/yr. I would consider this a top of the line plan. As mentioned earlier, wait times not an issue. Copays are $30/primary care visit, $50/specialist, $150 ER. Currently covers everything and no limitation on what doctors we can see, although as the government takes control, rationing will happen, directed by data that the government collects on individuals like age, behavior and other things.

 

[IndySteel]

I'm with Allied, under the hood of Aetna. Company pays for me and I pay $9000/year for my family. No co-pays. We have a perk for the owners of our company where all out of pocket medical expenses that aren't covered by insurance are paid for by the company, who in turn gets to deduct the cost. Ha ha, **** you Feds! Oh, as part of that "perk" we have a drug credit card that pays for all prescriptions. I can't complain too much. If you business owners want to check it out, its http://armadaglobal.com/care/

 

[Confluence]

US doesn't really have wait times. Insurance has nothing to do with wait times.


??? How long between the diagnosed need for knee replacement and the actual procedure, for example?

If you show up at an ER, the wait time depends on how many are in front of you. But the US has competition. There are many Urgent Care centers popping up that compete with the traditional hospital ER. Why? Because Americans don't like to wait so there is a market for them. As a result, there's a hospital now advertising a guaranteed 30 minute or less wait time. Competition makes everything better.

ER is same in Canada. If you want to get seen faster, you talk about breathing issues or potential heart problems. Essentially, they triage and see on the basis of need. The worst problem is jamming up ERs with non-emergency issues.

You may have to wait a week to get in to see your personal doctor if he has a ton of patients, but if you said it was an emergency, he'd see you that day. If you don't like waiting a week, you can go to a different Doc who has fewer patients and can see you quicker.

Same here

Copays? That depends. Most people get health insurance from their employer. The employer buys a plan for the employees and generally, the employer pays half and the employee pays half.

The only copays I'm aware of come via individual choice for name pharma drug vs. generic, which is (gasp) a personal choice!

It's like buying car insurance. You want the cheap plan? It may not cover as much and will have a high deductible, but it will be cheaper per month. You want collision and everything covered and low copays? You can have that too but it will cost more per month.

We are far more general. Everyone gets the main plan, but companies or individuals can opt for better options on prescription drugs as above. Sounds kinda similar

This is where Obamacare started ******* things up. Most people were completely happy with their coverage. They had the right balance of coverage and cost. Now Obamacare mandates that plans cover absolutely everything, but most people don't want coverage for a sex change operation and other fringe things like that.

Who likes change when it is not necessary? What does that have to do with anything other than Obamacare?

It's a myth that insurance companies just deny everything. Now, a procedure like an MRI may require a pre-approval to be covered. If you have bruise on your leg and want an MRI, the insurance won't approve because it's unnecessary. But the beauty is that if you still really want it, you can still get it. You will just have to pay for it yourself. It may cost you $2000 but you can then negotiate with the place that did the test and they will usually agree to take less if it is not covered and will let you pay monthly. You have choice.

Your GP sends you to a specialist to get the MRI here. Or an emerg MD can send you.

That's a far better system than tearing your ACL and having to wait 6 months or just being told you are too old to need the ACL repaired so you can't have it done.

Not aware of this being a systemic problem. Maybe you have an anecdotal story, probably correct, but that does not an average make.

If the definition of good healthcare is how cheap it is on the front end and not counting the huge tax burden, then i guess Canada is good. I'd rather judge it based on having free choice, getting quality care, not having to wait, and paying a reasonable amount.

All subjective and all reasonable. What the Canadian system does is take away a good chunk of the economic disparity around who gets what healthcare. It is far from perfect, or even good, but you disarm all those who complain about inequities by providing healthcare. There are some people, myself included, that think that a strong society should ought to demonstrate that strength by helping those who need it. So I can be staunchly in favor of healthcare for all, and staunchly against the welfare state.

You get what you pay for. I don't know why people think something as important as healthcare should be "free". Take away competition, you get ****** service. Take away the ability for Doctors to make lots of money, and you will have fewer people bothering to become Doctors. They will choose other professions to get paid and there will be shittier Doctors.

There are more doctors per capita in Cuba than any other country that I am aware of.....and they make the same amount as everyone else. Interesting, eh? Highly educated and still paid according to the average. I wanted to trade old, used tractors from Canada to Cuba for some of its doctors -- win/win.

My dad has to deal with the government VA healthcare and that gave me a taste of government run care. He saw a different Doc every few months who would repeat tests and do nothing for his problems with headaches and his eyes. After a few years, he went to a private eye doctor who found the problem in 1 visit, and scheduled the corrective surgery for the next week.

****** governments exist everywhere and are exemplified thru ****** service at all levels. This has nothing to do with healthcare.

With all due respect, it would seem that your fear and loathing may be misdirected.

 

[Confluence]

For my family of four we pay $9,600/yr. I would consider this a top of the line plan. As mentioned earlier, wait times not an issue. Copays are $30/primary care visit, $50/specialist, $150 ER. Currently covers everything and no limitation on what doctors we can see, although as the government takes control, rationing will happen, directed by data that the government collects on individuals like age, behavior and other things.

So you know your menu of costs, but not the actual or likely total? What about drug costs? Therapy?

Governments **** things up incredibly, but so do oligopolies. Does the present US profitcare system look more like an average, open industry or like it is run by Russian Oligarchs?

 

[Confluence]

I'm with Allied, under the hood of Aetna. Company pays for me and I pay $9000/year for my family. No co-pays. We have a perk for the owners of our company where all out of pocket medical expenses that aren't covered by insurance are paid for by the company, who in turn gets to deduct the cost. Ha ha, **** you Feds! Oh, as part of that "perk" we have a drug credit card that pays for all prescriptions. I can't complain too much. If you business owners want to check it out, its http://armadaglobal.com/care/

For apples to apples comparison, do you have any idea of the average annual total of your $9k + company costs for your family?

 

[CharlesDavenport]

So you know your menu of costs, but not the actual or likely total? What about drug costs? Therapy?

Governments **** things up incredibly, but so do oligopolies. Does the present US profitcare system look more like an average, open industry or like it is run by Russian Oligarchs?

JEZUZ I'm not going to spend time parsing out every aspect. I told you how much I spend a year plus copays. If the Huffpo article is right, I still pay less and am pretty sure I get at least equal coverage.

 

[IndySteel]

For apples to apples comparison, do you have any idea of the average annual total of your $9k + company costs for your family?

I'm not sure. That requires more math and file-digging than I'm willing to **** with.

 

[MTC]

Yer in.

It wouldn't hurt ya to understand why Nickleback is great and how they got their name, eh.

Nickleback sucks

 

[MTC]

And I'll raise you Triumph, April Wine, and Helix, but you Canucks can keep Celine Dione.

Lol. Far from a canuck. I'm a georgian-new mexican?

United states citizen

 

[ark steel]

Nickleback sucks

I hear that a lot. They have lots of songs I like, so I don't get it.

 

[ark steel]

With all due respect, it would seem that your fear and loathing may be misdirected.

from my experience, we pay a lot for insurance and health care, but trophy wives are worth it...

In the past 3 years, my wife has had 12 surgeries on one knee (several replacements/revisions, staph infections, etc.). My kid and I both had hernia surgeries a some ER visits.

My insurance premiums were around $200/paycheck ($5,200/year and I think the Employer part was the same.) We had 2500 family deductible and $5k maximum OOP. All of those surgeries is over $1m. We paid around $30k (insurance cost plus oop for medical treatments) over the three years. The time between the decision that surgery was needed was sometimes as long as a week and sometimes as soon as the next day.

ER waits are, usually, about 3-5 hours, but none of our stuff was life-threatening so not a big deal and some places have fixed that issue.

New insurance has larger deductibles and maximum oop, but much lower premiums. The new combination is a wash between prior and current with premiums + oop. After the max oop, everything is covered 100%.

 

[Max Power]

Trip to the ER? No wait at all. Small town hospitals....

Now if it's bad enough, in comes the Helicopter and you better have insurance for that one.

Four years ago when I had that "ride" I saw a bill for over 10,000 dollars. My guess is that the insurance company paid somewhat less.

 

[MTC]

I hear that a lot. They have lots of songs I like, so I don't get it.

Lol. Eh they have a few songs I like. They are not respected amongst the rock community for some reason

 

[MTC]

Trip to the ER? No wait at all. Small town hospitals....

Now if it's bad enough, in comes the Helicopter and you better have insurance for that one.

Four years ago when I had that "ride" I saw a bill for over 10,000 dollars. My guess is that the insurance company paid somewhat less.

Jesus!!! That's a lot of money--$10,000