Which NFL team/coach has the best player development … which has the worst ?

[carbonsteel]

I’ve never understood why a bigger deal isn’t made out of coaches with excellent player development and conversely why coaches with seemingly poor player development aren’t called out

 

[diver]

Because it's bullshiit. Coaches who are great at "player development"...good players are special to begin with. And if you start in the NFL, you are a good player.

 

[slashsteel]

Because it's bullshiit. Coaches who are great at "player development"...good players are special to begin with. And if you start in the NFL, you are a good player.

Is it? Some coaches know how to squeeze the best out of players. Some know how to develop players where they reach their full potential. Some know how to minimize weaknesses.

This includes positional coaches as they work closely with their assigned players.


Players are clay that need to be molded. Some less than others ….

 

[Omar10213245]

Because it's bullshiit. Coaches who are great at "player development"...good players are special to begin with. And if you start in the NFL, you are a good player.

No it isnt, you'd have to be a real fukwit to think that player development doesnt take place at the professional level

 

[Drink IRON City]

No it isnt, you'd have to be a real fukwit to think that player development doesnt take place at the professional level

Absolutely Omar, look at TJ WATT. He was running himself completely out of the play more often than he should have been.

Our Coaching didn’t seem to coach that up until JJ Watt got involved. The fly-byes minimized.


Salute the nation

 

[Drink IRON City]

PS. It was on one of the Pat McAfee shows, awhile back. (I think that’s where I heard it)

I brought it up about TJ over running, a couple of times in post(s) last season.


Salute the nation

 

[steelhurt]

Player development is a big part of coaching especially the head coach whose job it is to ensure this happens.
That’s part of the reason you have position coaches.
And you better be aware of a players best position ala Big Dot who was used on the wrong side.
Also the infamous Kendrick Greene used as a Center should never have been used there. The guy is a guard and that’s his natural position.
That kind of stuff concerns me with the Steelers. That has to be the directive from Tomlin but I’m sure OL Coach Meyer has very heavy input as well.

 

[BLITZ]

It is both. our oline coach is going to look a lot better this year cause he has better players to work with. that is the most important part.

but a guy like Munchak would get more out of them.

 

[diver]

No it isnt, you'd have to be a real fukwit to think that player development doesnt take place at the professional level

Let me rephrase. I would say player development by the time they get to the NFL is totally neck up. When I responded to that my mind was thinking more as it pertains to physical abilities. I do not believe a coach, at the professional level, can take a player that doesn't have the physical talent and turn him into a successful NFL player. That MUST be there already. You will never turn a guy who has average physical talent into a good or great NFL player...see Jarvis Jones as an example.

My response was a reaction because I saw this as just another tiresome anti-Tomlin opportunity. "He doesn't develop players!" I should have been more clear.

 

[carbonsteel]

I brought this up partly because yes, I do think Tomlin does a very poor job at developing talent…and he was originally a supposed secondary guru. Other than Mike Hilton I’m not thinking of anyone that seemed to make indications of development outside of just raw talent . We’ve recently seen a OL get released and prove to be an outstanding talent elsewhere .. that to me is e a TREMENDOUS implication of just how poorly some our coaching really is…what is troubling to me is that NOTHING has ever been mentioned about this anywhere ..

 

[SteelerSask2]

I mean the Steelers coach has come out snd said they are what they are in not so many words. He doesn't think coaching development occurs which really explains a lot. Doesn't it.

 

[diver]

Ok. Maybe Tomlin isn't good at developing talent. Maybe he is. I don't think any of us really know one way or the other. How do we prove or disprove this? I would argue players who become great have that in them already. I would agree that sometimes it takes the right coach to bring that out. However, is that "developing talent?" Can talent be "developed?" I think the better term would be "realizing talent."

 

[Ron Burgundy]

Absolutely Omar, look at TJ WATT. He was running himself completely out of the play more often than he should have been.

Our Coaching didn’t seem to coach that up until JJ Watt got involved. The fly-byes minimized.

We've GOT to be bottom 5. Our better players were already great in college. Almost no one who was merely decent in college improved under Coach Shades, especially since Munch left.

 

[keslerclan]

I harp on certain position coaches all the time BUT "developing talent" can mean a lot of things, IMO. Most college players are considered "raw" or underdeveloped or "they need time to develop, etc.

The best "teams" at developing talent might be great in one area and not so much in another, hence the word TEAM.

IMO, position coaches "develop" talent which includes making a player better AND recommending their strengths to the OC/DC for play-calling and positioning. Some are good and some are really not good. We have an OL coach that has seemingly done the impossible of making good players worse (they were better on other teams, either college or NFL)

Our WR coach last year sucked as well, almost everywhere he's coached. He MAY have been able to teach the scheme but he couldn't teach discipline...and he is gone now.

We have a weak DC, whose coaching history is dubious at best. Maybe that's all we can get BUT we saw what positive influences Brian Flores had on play schemes.

We have a much better OC now, though we couldn't have gotten worse. Time will tell if he is better suited as an OC, "obviously".

Our DL coach hasn't done much with anyone other than the "already good" players. His history at BAMA was not necessarily a great resume, as he was always loaded with talent.

Our secondary and LB coaches starting last year was pretty good considering all they had to deal with injury-wise.

Sometimes "development" means playing to the strengths that the position coaches claim. A great example is how some of our players (Sutton, Dupree, Willie Gay, Bryant McFadden, LeVeon Bell and JuJu) all left and got worse, some returned and got better. THAT is knowing your players strengths and playing into them. While others like (Kevin Dotson, Manny Sanders, James Connor, Kraig Urbik, and others) played better with their new teams which shows a lack of development or play position/scheme.

Bottom line, the ONLY good thing about our HC is that for whatever reason, players want to play for him and most respect him. He is just too confident in his own coaching ability and meddles too much. He also is usually too loyal to players and coaches that make him look bad as a leader.

Teams that have been better at developing talent are usually the ones with the best position coaches and coordinators. (Philly-OL, 49ers/Texans-offensive skill players, Ravens - DL, Bills - DBs). We have a better OC and hopefully WR coach, so we shall see.

 

[Badcat]

I’ve never understood why a bigger deal isn’t made out of coaches with excellent player development and conversely why coaches with seemingly poor player development aren’t called out

How does a writer know when a coach isn't good at developing players? What are the measurables in determining that? How do you become so certain of it that you write an article, blog, or talking point to bring up on your podcast or television show?

I'll give you a personal example. I'm a wrestling coach and I've always gravitated to the kids who need the most help. Over the years, I've been told that I get the most out of these not so good kids, and I take that as a compliment. But one could also say that I may be a good Coach, but I can't coach elite talent, which I've also heard. Now, would I want to hear that sentiment spread over print and television for my parents, friends, kids, even my peers and kids that I coach to read and hear? What if I then shifted my focus on elite talent to prove the naysayers wrong and left the other kids behind? What good would putting someone on blast really do for anyone?

 

[Djfan]

I remember years back hearing Shades say in an interview that he doesn't need to develop talent, that's the players job. I wish I could find it. That's just wrong. Elite talent must fit the scheme. That's development. Unrefined talent must be forged. It's all coaching.

 

[Confluence]

PS. It was on one of the Pat McAfee shows, awhile back. (I think that’s where I heard it)

I brought it up about TJ over running, a couple of times in post(s) last season.


Salute the nation

this was also the Durpee issue for 3 seasons, until it wasn't. Open lanes at LoS made simple passes and draws easy behind him.

 

[diver]

I remember years back hearing Shades say in an interview that he doesn't need to develop talent, that's the players job. I wish I could find it. That's just wrong. Elite talent must fit the scheme. That's development. Unrefined talent must be forged. It's all coaching.

I just think it is not an either or situation. It is the players job, through his work ethic, drive and desire to maximize his full, and special, athletic potential. I do not believe anyone can do that for them. Tomlin could have said it better, but I would argue that is what he meant. It is the coaches job to take that talent and put it the best situation to succeed. Has Tomlin done that? Not well enough, and the results show that.

I think developing talent at that level has limits. It has to be there. I saw a study that was done on Olympic sprinters and it was shown that they have around 70% fast twitch muscle fibers. Most normal people are born much closer to 50-50. What that means is those people are just born special. I think guys who make it to the NFL are just born special. You cannot develop that. Now, from the neck up? Sure. But the greatest football coach in the world wasn't gonna turn most of us into an NFL players if we aren't born with those special qualities.

 

[diver]

How does a writer know when a coach isn't good at developing players? What are the measurables in determining that? How do you become so certain of it that you write an article, blog, or talking point to bring up on your podcast or television show?

I'll give you a personal example. I'm a wrestling coach and I've always gravitated to the kids who need the most help. Over the years, I've been told that I get the most out of these not so good kids, and I take that as a compliment. But one could also say that I may be a good Coach, but I can't coach elite talent, which I've also heard. Now, would I want to hear that sentiment spread over print and television for my parents, friends, kids, even my peers and kids that I coach to read and hear? What if I then shifted my focus on elite talent to prove the naysayers wrong and left the other kids behind? What good would putting someone on blast really do for anyone?

I know what you are saying. I have coached and was always drawn to those kids as well. However, what I discovered was that while you could help those kids improve, they were never going to be as good as those kids that were just naturally better.

I went to PSU back in the early to mid '80s. I remember playing a lot of intramural basketball. The football team had teams in the intramural league. I wasn't a bad player. But when we played some of those football player teams, damn, those guys could just move better, were stronger, could jump higher and the like.

 

[Djfan]

I just think it is not an either or situation. It is the players job, through his work ethic, drive and desire to maximize his full, and special, athletic potential. I do not believe anyone can do that for them. Tomlin could have said it better, but I would argue that is what he meant. It is the coaches job to take that talent and put it the best situation to succeed. Has Tomlin done that? Not well enough, and the results show that.

Some of my favorite videos of Noll are when he was on the sidelines during a game, teaching a lineman how to get a play right. During a game. That's coaching.