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Iran

Tibs said:
I agree, the US takes on too large of a financial burden. I also (shockingly) agree with Trump's push to bring members in line with agreed-upon commitments, which has risen from 2% to 5% of GDP last year.

To put it in context:



Also worth looking at from a per capita perspective:



It's also not clear what the US defense budget would look like without NATO commitments. I think there's some confusion about this stateside, as it's become a political talking point.
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Now you are an expert on NATO funding. But not really.
At all.
 
jitter77 said:
I agree with this, but then we can't automatically expect other countries to jump in. Other countries have a lot more at stake than us. They are in range or much closer in proximity to attacks. The likelihood of iran hitting the USA with a missile is basically non existent whereas many allied countries are at high risk if they get involved. The biggest threat would be sleeper cells in the USA and having a dirty bomb smuggled into our country.
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I disagree. I think their problem is that they’ve allowed such a large Muslim population to fester in their own countries that they fear retribution from those same people should they become involved. Look, everyone knows what Islam is whether they actually admit it or not.
 
Tim Steelersfan said:
Perhaps. The US Citizenry is the largest army in the world. Regardless, we have a chance. And that's why the framers put in the 2A, for us to be able to protect ourselves from our own Government.

Shame the Iranian people don't also have that fighters chance, agreed?
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Perhaps? 😂 Dude. This is 2026, not 1826. The military has arms and intelligence gathering that citizens don’t have. Many U.S. gun owners are in poor physical condition and many others would pass on shooting at something that can shoot back.

As far as the Iranians are concerned it’d certainly help if they had arms but they’d need help regardless.
 
Tibs said:
Thank God for that. Most sane Americans understand that NATO is a defensive alliance amongst allied nations, not a standing military force that some head of state can beckon on a whim when they feel like attacking some random country.

Ironically enough, NATO's cornerstone Article 5, which states an armed attack against ANY member state is considered an attack against ALL member states, has been invoked only once in the alliance's history. It was activated on September 12, 2001, in direct response to the September 11 terrorist attacks against the United States.
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They need us a lot more than we need them. Trump knows this and knows how much leverage that gives us.
 
Tibs said:
Please cite a single instance in this entire thread, or anywhere on this board, where I have said a *single* thing in support of the Iranian regime.

Calling Trump & Hegseth's war of choice reckless and belligerent, or to state that they were bamboozled by Netanyahu into attacking Iran, has exactly ZERO to do with showing any type of empathy or support for the Iranian regime. Well, maybe in your mind it does. But that's another story.
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You're so concerned about supporting allies but when we try to help one of our strongest allies, Israel, a modern democracy surrounded by violent radical Islamic maniacs trying to obtain nukes, we've been "bamboozled".
 
Tibs said:
Nope, wrong again. Since Trump started this war, I very much hope he can end this war in a favorable way for the United States. Yes, under President Trump. I'll stand and applaud him if he can get out of this quagmire of his own making.
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you think I'm new here?

if he ended the "war" in Iran today, you'd ***** and moan that he took too long. if he ended the "war" today, by going over to Iran and choking out a mullah, you'd say he was being too violent and call for an(other) impeachment.

if he cured cancer, you'd whine that he's putting cancer docs out of business.

if he solved world hunger, you'd say he's just trying to get himself and his rich billionaires richer.

if he presented unquestionable evidence that the government was behind JFK's shooting, you'd demand he step down.

no matter what he does, you're going to complain.

even if he stepped down, you'd find a way to ***** and complain. it's what you do. we all know it. it's up to you to accept it.
 
Aussie_Steeler said:
Maybe if Trump consulted with the NATO allies prior to launching an attack, rather than going it alone with only Israel and then demanding the rest of NATO become involved he may have received more co-operation.
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you're failing to understand that Euroweenie countries are comprised entirely of ******* at this point in time. the USA protects them. 100%. Sure, they "pay" some for their defense, but nowhere near as much as the USA does. And to protect them, we put military bases on their soil - and they have the audacity to "deny" us the use of those bases to take out a radical islamic regime hell bent on dropping nukes on their lands.

we identified a threat. and it was confirmed. As has been said time and time again, if we hadnt acted when we did, we'd have lost the opportunity to take out the top heads of their leadership in such an efficient manner.

****, we did that before France could even surrender to them.

and, which Euro country would man up? the muzzie overran UK? the French were already surrendering. Spain disallowed us to use bases. we sure don't want to provoke Germany to crank their war machine, lest some dude in a funny mustache awakens.

we protected the Euro ******* just as we should have - despite their hand-wringing and complaints.
 
Things must be going swimmingly. While Trump is busy purging cabinet members, Pete Hegseth fired the Army Chief of Staff and other top brass last night, in the middle of a war. No reason given, the head of the army axed over the phone, while coordinating combat operations in Iran. WTF is happening? Not sure anyone knows, which is truly a comforting thought.

Pete Hegseth has fired twelve generals. Between them, five hundred years of military experience. Desert Storm. Iraq. Afghanistan. Gone. No reason given. In the middle of a war.

These weren’t pen-pushers. They were the men who actually know what a ground invasion of Iran looks like.

Perhaps they also know something else. That the man now running the Pentagon spent his career behind a Fox News desk rather than a command post. That his qualifications for managing the world’s most powerful military were, broadly speaking, strong opinions and good hair.
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Hypocycloids said:
In this context favorable enough that it renders Tibs mute.
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His meds, Chakra and therapy wins have aligned these past couple days, plus the Euro press is going extra hard cuz, you know, they want the US to police the boats that bring them the oils they need--and have had since Desert Storm-- or they will will use harsh language and UN-logic to show how beastly OMB really is.

Since Biden destroyed Nordstream and his pal, Best Actor Zelenzky bombed the Slovak and Hungarian oil pipelines, they kinda really need them damn boats, yesterday......and why did that OMB mess that up for them?

(ever wonder who benefited when Desert Storm just stopped and shut down? It wasn't American oil companies)
 
Superman said:
you think I'm new here? no matter what he does, you're going to complain.
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Funny how you and a few others spend your waking hours whining, crying, bellyaching and obsessively berating other posters here, instead of simply discussing the news of the day, or the topic of a thread. Can’t be healthy, man. Hope you’re ok. 👍🏻
 
Tibs said:
Funny how you and a few others spend your waking hours whining, crying, bellyaching and obsessively berating other posters here, instead of simply discussing the news of the day, or the topic of a thread. Can’t be healthy, man. Hope you’re ok. 👍🏻
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share your therapy wins here if that helps you get over your demons
 
Tibs said:
That could be arranged, with a little more cooperation, communication, diplomacy, shared planning and strategy with allies, as opposed to a frantic, belligerent, do-it-alone approach, then whine and pout, and expect everyone to join in when you've made a mess of the situation.

That's my primary critique here, it has nothing to do with the basic concept of taking out the Islamic Republic, or triggering regime change in Iran, dismantling their nukes and terrorist apparatus. It just blows my mind how reckless this administration is, if you think back to how brilliant American leadership, diplomacy and military strategy has been over the past century, including both world wars, or more recently, the way America spearheaded the end of the Balkan wars in the 90s with full NATO cooperation. Something is missing here, whether you guys see it, or admit it, or not.
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Didn't we try all that for like 45 years?

I'm not necessarily thrilled with how this is playing out, time will tell if the end game will be satisfactory. But I am happy that we have a president who is actually interested in doing something, in taking action instead of worrying about what the most politically popular option would be.
 
Troglodyte said:
Perhaps? 😂 Dude. This is 2026, not 1826. The military has arms and intelligence gathering that citizens don’t have. Many U.S. gun owners are in poor physical condition and many others would pass on shooting at something that can shoot back.

As far as the Iranians are concerned it’d certainly help if they had arms but they’d need help regardless.
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Interestingly, Carroll Quigley former Dean of the School of Foreign Service at Georgetown and mentor to Bill Clinton observed in his book "Tragedy and Hope: A History of the World in our Time" that the American Revolution happened when it did precisely because it was a very brief interlude in human history in which the average citizen had weapons comparable to and just about as good as what the government had at the time.
 
Tibs said:
Funny how you and a few others spend your waking hours whining, crying, bellyaching and obsessively berating other posters here, instead of simply discussing the news of the day, or the topic of a thread. Can’t be healthy, man. Hope you’re ok. 👍🏻
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and which topic did your response apply to? i responded directly to your pointed statement that you "hope he can win this war in a favorable way" - which everyone here knows is a steamy pile of bullshit.
 
oneforthebus said:
Fighter jet shot down, Tibs and Trog and the rest of the left will be giddy.

Praying the crew ejected safely.
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let's hope this is what the reality is:
Some observers suggested that the debris could have originated from the March 2, 2026, friendly fire incident in which three F-15Es were shot down by a Kuwaiti F/A-18 fighter while returning from combat missions. All six crew members in that incident managed to eject safely.
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oneforthebus said:
Fighter jet shot down, Tibs and Trog and the rest of the left will be giddy.

Praying the crew ejected safely.
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I may be wrong but until this war pretty sure we had never lost a F-15 in combat or maybe that was just air to air not sure about SAM. I know we have 5th gen now, but it has been a pretty invincible aircraft to date and we've had this and the friendly fire incident where somehow the Kuwaitis took down 3.

Makes you wonder what the fallout will be from this war for us and our enemies. Iran has basically rendered our vaunted Navy unwilling or unable to get too close to the Strait of Trump to close it and we decommed our minesweepers. And have lost F-15s from Division 2 or NAIA militaries.
 
Troglodyte said:
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You know the deal had sunset provisions beginning in 2025, and no restrictions on uranium enrichment after 2030 right? 3 1/2 short years from now. It also did not prevent them from developing long range ballistic missiles. Not to mention inspectors had to provide notice and were not allowed on military bases. So who knows how much they are actually enriching.
 
SojournerSteel said:
I may be wrong but until this war pretty sure we had never lost a F-15 in combat or maybe that was just air to air not sure about SAM. I know we have 5th gen now, but it has been a pretty invincible aircraft to date and we've had this and the friendly fire incident where somehow the Kuwaitis took down 3.

Makes you wonder what the fallout will be from this war for us and our enemies. Iran has basically rendered our vaunted Navy unwilling or unable to get too close to the Strait of Trump to close it and we decommed our minesweepers. And have lost F-15s from Division 2 or NAIA militaries.
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My question is how is Iran still capable of launching all these missiles / drones? For a country supposedly in shambles they seem pretty capable of inflicting damage still. Surely we can see or pinpoint where launches are coming from. There was speculation they were getting targeting data from Russia, but not sure how accurate that is. It seemed Iran was launch precise attacks and not just randomly firing missiles. For example one of our radar planes was on an isolated run way in Saudi Arabia and hit.
 
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