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Steelers select Dri Archer in Round 3

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Can we please stop the boo-hooing over people who have left the board. Chances are they'll be back anyway.
 
Steelerfan said:
Can we please stop the boo-hooing over people who have left the board. Chances are they'll be back anyway.
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Seriously. I've never seen so much guy on guy whining in my life over an ineterwebz GM
 
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Idioteque said:
How many of my posts in here over the last month or so were initiated by me, and how many were in response? How many times here lately have I just popped in to rip Archer out of the sheer blue sky? Or is it mostly me taking the bait from those of you who just can't get me out of your minds and bring me up bi-daily.
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so now we are forcing you, against your will, to post here? seriously? do you get desktop notifications when someone types in a keyword to alert you to this "sinking ship" as you put it? so you can save it with your rosy personality? is that why you posted twice more in this very thread?

antdrewjosh, you're an e-thug!
 
I'm just curious as who thinks will snow tomorrow? These arguments are as about football related as the weather. I say shake hands / dicks / eacvh others / heads / body language / arms / legs, yaz get it? Respectfully



Salute the nation
 
I don't even know what people are debating anymore on the Archer issue.

I didn't like the pick because, to me, it's frivolous. And by that I mean limited participants on offense as "gimmick" players and returners just aren't WORTH that much to me. That's a philosophical position I have on football that isn't going to change because of the Archer selection. I don't see a lot of correlation between these types of "specialty players" and consistent, dominant winning around the league. I am still a traditionalist that my top 11-12 guys on offense have to be the BEST 11-12 guys I have and they're job is to beat your top 11-12 guys on defense. If you can't do that, all the Dri Archers in the world won't matter to getting to 11 or 12 wins and winning in the playoffs.

I've said before about 100 pages ago that if they decide to run Archer into the ground as a RB (and that includes the screen game and limited slot opportunities), then do it. Get him his touches in a traditional offense, not by catering the offense TO HIM and FORCE touches. Turn him into Warrick Dunn.

Tombert also seems to "chase" quick fixes to their special teams, which I'm not philosophical in favor of either. To me, great special teams is all about the coaching, practice, execution and roster depth (great athletes coming up through the system). It's not about the punter or returner. Those are the fancy hood ornaments, not the engine. But you've seen this organization use valuable resources on punters and very limited return-only type players (using picks, roster spots, etc.). And for the most part, this "plan" has pretty much failed over the last 7 seasons.

So I am very suspicious of how this organization is "presenting" Archer to me as a player. By their own design they are expecting him to improve things in ways I don't agree with philosophically. They are promoting him as a returner. They are promoting him as a situational weapon on offense. And I just don't value those types of players very highly.

I hope I'm wrong. But even when players like this succeed it doesn't normally FIX the things that are holding your team back from winning meaningful, tough situations and games in December/playoffs. I still think the game is primarily trench warfare, quarterback efficiency and red zone production (and vice versa on defense). If I look at a prospect and he can't really help in one of those three categories (offensively or defensively), I have to question his value as a 3rd round pick.

We will see how it all plays out this season. I am as curious as anyone as to how many touches Archer gets, how he gets them and what he produces out of those touches.

I am just skeptical the shiny new toy Tomlin bought for himself isn't going to fix some of the real problems this team seems to have year-in, year-out under his regime.
 
The issues with this team are up front on both sides. When they get back to being dominant on the defensive line the defense will become dominant again. When the OLine gels and we get any type of consistent running game we will be better. Special teams should be alot better this year not even including Archer. Alot of guys who can run and hit comprise the special teams. This team was in a transition period. I do think this may be the year they start to come around. Injuries slowed it down some too.
 
I am just skeptical the shiny new toy Tomlin bought for himself isn't going to fix some of the real problems this team seems to have year-in, year-out under his regime
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del are you sure this was a tomlin pick? I mean no else had any opinion on it?
Then what the hell is the scouting team and Colbert for? Just fire those useless employees and save the cash of the payroll, right?
 
deljzc, i agree 100%, i feel the same way about building a roster.
 
deljzc said:
I don't even know what people are debating anymore on the Archer issue.

I didn't like the pick because, to me, it's frivolous. And by that I mean limited participants on offense as "gimmick" players and returners just aren't WORTH that much to me. That's a philosophical position I have on football that isn't going to change because of the Archer selection. I don't see a lot of correlation between these types of "specialty players" and consistent, dominant winning around the league. I am still a traditionalist that my top 11-12 guys on offense have to be the BEST 11-12 guys I have and they're job is to beat your top 11-12 guys on defense. If you can't do that, all the Dri Archers in the world won't matter to getting to 11 or 12 wins and winning in the playoffs.

I've said before about 100 pages ago that if they decide to run Archer into the ground as a RB (and that includes the screen game and limited slot opportunities), then do it. Get him his touches in a traditional offense, not by catering the offense TO HIM and FORCE touches. Turn him into Warrick Dunn.

Tombert also seems to "chase" quick fixes to their special teams, which I'm not philosophical in favor of either. To me, great special teams is all about the coaching, practice, execution and roster depth (great athletes coming up through the system). It's not about the punter or returner. Those are the fancy hood ornaments, not the engine. But you've seen this organization use valuable resources on punters and very limited return-only type players (using picks, roster spots, etc.). And for the most part, this "plan" has pretty much failed over the last 7 seasons.

So I am very suspicious of how this organization is "presenting" Archer to me as a player. By their own design they are expecting him to improve things in ways I don't agree with philosophically. They are promoting him as a returner. They are promoting him as a situational weapon on offense. And I just don't value those types of players very highly.

I hope I'm wrong. But even when players like this succeed it doesn't normally FIX the things that are holding your team back from winning meaningful, tough situations and games in December/playoffs. I still think the game is primarily trench warfare, quarterback efficiency and red zone production (and vice versa on defense). If I look at a prospect and he can't really help in one of those three categories (offensively or defensively), I have to question his value as a 3rd round pick.

We will see how it all plays out this season. I am as curious as anyone as to how many touches Archer gets, how he gets them and what he produces out of those touches.

I am just skeptical the shiny new toy Tomlin bought for himself isn't going to fix some of the real problems this team seems to have year-in, year-out under his regime.
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^^^^^THIS is what this ridiculous thread should end on, explaining both sides of the argument.

Very well stated Del, thank you.

The rest of you jagoffs, let it go
 
Tim Steelersfan said:
^^^^^THIS is what this ridiculous thread should end on, explaining both sides of the argument.

Very well stated Del, thank you.

The rest of you jagoffs, let it go
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I have no idea how that explains both sides of the issue.
 
Superman said:
please stop antagonizing and goading.
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You're right Supe because then people will feel forced to respond and then complain about the length of the thread.
 
feeling forced to respond is not the point of communicating on an internet message board.
 
Idioteque said:
One of the funniest things I have ever seen on here. It was something like "Your post makes mine look wrong and stupid so will you delete it please?" I probably would've forgotten that by now if not for the sheer irony. You're now beating the "Quit taking yourself so seriously! Who cares about being right?!?" drum, fresh off of begging me to delete my posts to save you from looking stupid. If only I had that degree of skill.
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hey lets try to come up with something a little better.. some substance.. anything really...
 
Slaine said:
Sadly I don't think TMC comes here much anymore. :(
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If Archer would have muffed a punt and fumbled away the game winning drive he would have been back. Of course Bryant did that so we likely have to wait until Archer has a crappy game and Bryant has a good one to hear from him.
 
Black & Gold Bleeder said:
hey lets try to come up with something a little better.. some substance.. anything really...
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There's really no need. Your "please delete your post because it disproves my point" made the HOF, right alongside:

"I understand basketball better than you, because I met Jalen Rose"

and

"Of course I'm right about this. Look at all of the karma I've gotten!"

I'll give you two guesses as to the author of them (one and same)
 
Tim Steelersfan said:
^^^^^THIS is what this ridiculous thread should end on, explaining both sides of the argument.

Very well stated Del, thank you.

The rest of you jagoffs, let it go
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But if we let it go then how will this thread ever hit 250 pages? And I agree with Del, except I hope this pick does NOT work out. That way we stop wasting picks on players that are not at the core of how you get better. Of course if Dri breaks off a 82 yd punt return in week 1 I will not complain.
 
deljzc said:
I hope I'm wrong. But even when players like this succeed it doesn't normally FIX the things that are holding your team back from winning meaningful, tough situations and games in December/playoffs. I still think the game is primarily trench warfare, quarterback efficiency and red zone production (and vice versa on defense). If I look at a prospect and he can't really help in one of those three categories (offensively or defensively), I have to question his value as a 3rd round pick.
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I agree with this philosophy- but didnt we attempt to attain this goal during the draft? Our first two picks essential helped us in the trenches and maybe even will lead to lower opposing QB efficiency...

So we took the picks with the highest % of success, and used them towards acquiring what you feel are necessary for a successful team.

The last 15 or so #96th picks have been underwhelming (maybe 5 still play with 2/3 that could be considered average). We took a very loooow % pick and used it on a player, who isnt just fast, but quite literally blessed with generational speed.

Its simply a function of risk reward. The 96th pick is normally not going to work out for you on average- so I see no problem taking a flyer at that spot- especially if its a guy that runs like Usain Bolt
 
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