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Covid Vaccine

Troglodyte said:
Completely lost on you is that if your claim that the vaccine is more likely to kill children than Covid was anywhere close to being true, it would have been the ONLY thing the author would have mentioned. It would have been the subject of the article. It was not because it is completely baseless (and idiotic).

Prove me wrong.
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The article was about the things MOST likely to kill kids. The point being Covid is not on there or even close. The Vaccine would be just ahead of Covid on a list but way down and not near the top 8 dumbass. It isn't that the vaccine is likely to kill kids, it isn't, it is that is is more likely by some measures to kill than Covid. No one is saying, I hope that kids are falling over dead in droves from the vaccine, or Covid.

Dumbass.
 
deljzc said:
It's been another 25 or 50 pages so here is my rant....

You should get the vaccine. Your children 12+ should get the vaccine.

This is not an "opinion". There is a growing attitude around here that all opinions are of equal importance. That is bullshit.

If I am building a bridge and I have a civil engineer with 20 years experience in construction on one side of me and a random dude on the other, their "opinions" on how to build the bridge are NOT EQUAL.

Yet somehow all your opinions about the human body and drug interactions is AS EQUAL as doctors and immunologists? It's not.

I fully understand not trusting the government or politicians and what they say about this disease. But TALK TO YOUR DOCTOR before you go spouting off about ifs and buts and conspiracy theories.

Not one of you has QUOTED your family or personal doctor that agrees with you that you shouldn't get the shot. Not ******* one. These doctors (hopefully) know you for decades. You should TRUST them because their "opinion" of your health actually does mean a lot more than your "opinion".

If a doctor tells you "You are overweight", your "opinion" that your weight is fine because you feel okay that day is not the same.

Again, there is some growing sentiment among right-leaning folks that science, engineering and academia is just "opinion". It's not.

I fully understand and agree with the fact the left and main stream media has eroded our faith in "experts". First, they claim too many things are "science" when it isn't. We've talked numerous times about any degree ending in "Studies" isn't a real degree. And the left has made WAY TOO MANY things some sort of "expert field".

But that DOES NOT APPLY to the human body and your health. Doctors know best and their opinions are more important than yours. You ignore them at all our risks right now.
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Here the problem with:

If I am building a bridge and I have a civil engineer with 20 years experience in construction on one side of me and a random dude on the other, their "opinions" on how to build the bridge are NOT EQUAL.

There are multiple 20yr engineers agreeing with random dude and against the establishment.
 
deljzc said:
I fully understand not trusting the government or politicians and what they say about this disease. But TALK TO YOUR DOCTOR before you go spouting off about ifs and buts and conspiracy theories.
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I have. She said wait and get the Novavax vaccine.
 



These people are ghouls.
 
SteelerInLebanon said:
The article was about the things MOST likely to kill kids. The point being Covid is not on there or even close. The Vaccine would be just ahead of Covid on a list but way down and not near the top 8 dumbass. It isn't that the vaccine is likely to kill kids, it isn't, it is that is is more likely by some measures to kill than Covid. No one is saying, I hope that kids are falling over dead in droves from the vaccine, or Covid.

Dumbass.
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Source? “By some measures”? Neither you or Tim are anything close to doctors. No qualified person is saying what you are claiming. Your idiocy has been pointed out and explained by multiple people. Protection from possible but unlikely death isn’t the only reason to get vaccinated.
 
deljzc said:
It's been another 25 or 50 pages so here is my rant....

You should get the vaccine. Your children 12+ should get the vaccine.

This is not an "opinion". There is a growing attitude around here that all opinions are of equal importance. That is bullshit.

If I am building a bridge and I have a civil engineer with 20 years experience in construction on one side of me and a random dude on the other, their "opinions" on how to build the bridge are NOT EQUAL.

Yet somehow all your opinions about the human body and drug interactions is AS EQUAL as doctors and immunologists? It's not.

I fully understand not trusting the government or politicians and what they say about this disease. But TALK TO YOUR DOCTOR before you go spouting off about ifs and buts and conspiracy theories.

Not one of you has QUOTED your family or personal doctor that agrees with you that you shouldn't get the shot. Not ******* one. These doctors (hopefully) know you for decades. You should TRUST them because their "opinion" of your health actually does mean a lot more than your "opinion".

If a doctor tells you "You are overweight", your "opinion" that your weight is fine because you feel okay that day is not the same.

Again, there is some growing sentiment among right-leaning folks that science, engineering and academia is just "opinion". It's not.

I fully understand and agree with the fact the left and main stream media has eroded our faith in "experts". First, they claim too many things are "science" when it isn't. We've talked numerous times about any degree ending in "Studies" isn't a real degree. And the left has made WAY TOO MANY things some sort of "expert field".

But that DOES NOT APPLY to the human body and your health. Doctors know best and their opinions are more important than yours. You ignore them at all our risks right now.
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I have family members that where told by their doctor to not get the shot.
 
My doctor said it was my choice, there wasn't a lot known about the vaccine at the time. I was fully vaccinated in January. Knowing what we know now, as I have stated before, I think everyone should get the shot. But it's your choice. I disagree with your choice, but it's your choice.
 
Steelersreign said:
I have family members that where told by their doctor to not get the shot.
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I know microbiologists and virologists who are leery about mRNA and advise going with the traditional vaccine method (which hopefully Novavax gets going soon), but we have a bunch of armchair virologists and epidemiologists on here already though. If it's the traditional method, I have no problem with a tried/tested vaccine from a reputable manufacturer. If they're wanting to use genetic coding that produces spike/viral proteins that attacks my other cells - **** you.
 
Troglodyte said:
Source? “By some measures”? Neither you or Tim are anything close to doctors. No qualified person is saying what you are claiming. Your idiocy has been pointed out and explained by multiple people. Protection from possible but unlikely death isn’t the only reason to get vaccinated.
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Idiocy? I am just explaining to you what was meant so you understood, hopefully. I was making no judgement on the numbers myself, which is why I said by some measure. It IS undeniable that it can heart issues in young men and children. The numbers are low that have been diagnosed but that doesn't mean there are not many undiagnosed cases. Vaers reporting is not verified deaths caused by the vaccine, I totally understand that but let's 10% are and that is likely high. That would put the Vaccine and Covid on almost equal danger level for death among those under 18 which for Covid stand at around 423 in the US. A sad but incredibly low number. A number so low as to not warrant the risk from an experimental vaccine for children. I am a huge supporter of vaccines and have had the Moderna shot. Yes MANY qualified doctors ARE saying kids do not need to be and should not be vaccinated without further study. It isn't even approved for younger children because of the risks. You are blatantly lying when you say unqualified people are not saying these things.

I guess only doctors who agree with your secular covid based religion of fear are qualified and **** any other MD who dares disagree with the party line?
 
SteelerInLebanon said:
Idiocy? I am just explaining to you what was meant so you understood, hopefully. I was making no judgement on the numbers myself, which is why I said by some measure. It IS undeniable that it can heart issues in young men and children. The numbers are low that have been diagnosed but that doesn't mean there are not many undiagnosed cases. Vaers reporting is not verified deaths caused by the vaccine, I totally understand that but let's 10% are and that is likely high. That would put the Vaccine and Covid on almost equal danger level for death among those under 18 which for Covid stand at around 423 in the US. A sad but incredibly low number. A number so low as to not warrant the risk from an experimental vaccine for children. I am a huge supporter of vaccines and have had the Moderna shot. Yes MANY qualified doctors ARE saying kids do not need to be and should not be vaccinated without further study. It isn't even approved for younger children because of the risks. You are blatantly lying when you say unqualified people are not saying these things.

I guess only doctors who agree with your secular covid based religion of fear are qualified and **** any other MD who dares disagree with the party line?
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SOURCE? Who is saying the vaccine is more dangerous and causes more deaths than Covid? Wouldn’t that be a widely reported controversy? You and Tim are creating your own reality.
 
i think the Carnegie Mellon study is extremely telling… its a u curve on vaccine hesitancy…. The least educated and most educated are the most hesitant… the middle ground is almost all pro vaccine

but the group that was by far the least likely to support the vaccines in their current state are those with PHDs
 
Also ive seen some talk about vaccines preventing further infection… most do… there are a handful that are, as Tim calls them, leaky, but most have a large quick immune response that eradicates the virus before it reaches contagious levels

this one does not… we don’t know the long term results from that… some failed animal vaccines have led to very bad overall results… fortunately I don’t know of any that made it out of testing for humans

unfortunately we cut testing on these by years so we don’t know yet
 
Steelworth said:
Huh?! Unpossible!
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Weird huh… but the Masters degrees had the highest level of vaccine support

that fits with my personal acquaintance experience… the highly technical smart group are all opposed to the current vaccines… the absolute dumb ***** are terrified of it, all the norms are split, but the people who are in that group that adore college but aren’t really technically gifted seem to be religiously fervent about getting vaxxed…
 
That is weird. I'm not a PhD (far from it), but I worked with a lot of Microbiology PhDs at Caltech for several years and have the good fortune of being in contact with a couple of them still, and they're not on board with mRNA. The consensus seems to be that even traditional vaccines aren't going to protect much against mutations (like what happens with all viruses), but they're not against them. Seems they think humoral immunity of the B cells and traditional autoimmunity of the T cells are the best bet at this stage.

They are way beyond my understanding though that I usually just ask "good?" or "bad?". :p
 
"So on the one hand, you will say that of all the suspect deaths listed/reported, there is no causal link and we don't know.

But then you state as fact the deaths caused by the vaccines is minute. That's a bit of a flip flop."

What's the flip flop? I've said from the beginning, VAERS reports are not deaths caused by the vaccines, they are not suspected deaths caused by the vaccines. They are deaths that happened sometime after people got a vaccine and are an investigational tool used to see if there could be patterns or causal links.

CONFIRMED deaths caused by vaccines are minute is what I said. And that is true. And not at all different from saying it's possible more deaths have been caused by them. So far unconfirmed.
 
Let me see if I can put this in a little perspective.

1500 people die every year from anaphylactic reactions to something. A lot of it is common foods. No one suggests that peanut butter and eggs are poisons designed to kill us, and peanut butter and eggs don't even prevent a contagious illness.

My daughter had something called idiopathic thrombocytopenia at age 3. Her immune system started attacking her platelets and she almost completely lost the ability to clot. We went to bathe her and she was covered in bruises, had to rush her to the ER. The doctors told me it was most likely caused by the combination of a viral illness and taking ibuprofen. It happens in about 3000 kids every year. It's completely treatable but some kids probably die of it if they fall and injure their heads or something before diagnosis, etc.

Yet no one is screaming that ibuprofen is poison and kids should never take it. And ibuprofen does nothing but relieve symptoms, it doesn't even prevent a contagious illness.

Rare things happen to people sometimes. Sometimes even vaccines cause rare things. That doesn't mean that the benefits of them don't greatly outweigh the risks.

We make these judgments every single day about many aspects of our lives. I don't understand how this hysteria over vaccine side effects started, and why it persists. There are far more hospitalizations, illnesses, and long term effects from covid than from vaccines, even if death rates from covid are very low in some populations.

Why people fear the vaccines more than they fear getting covid is just mind boggling to me. It's not based on anything factual. It's more like "Let me resist this because some people want me to do it." It is, in my opinion, childish and weird. (I exclude those who are naturally immune because as far as we know right now there is really no good reason for them to get a vaccine. No real reason not to, but if you don't need one why should you get one?)

That's where I am at from my hours and hours of reading. I'm always open to new factual info. I'm not open to speculation and conspiracy theories. It's a dangerous game that will (and has) end up killing some people. Maybe not that many, but medicine is in the business of preventing illness and death, and it's a shame when preventable illness and death happen simply because people won't trust medicine.
 
Steelworth said:
That is weird. I'm not a PhD (far from it), but I worked with a lot of Microbiology PhDs at Caltech for several years and have the good fortune of being in contact with a couple of them still, and they're not on board with mRNA. The consensus seems to be that even traditional vaccines aren't going to protect much against mutations (like what happens with all viruses), but they're not against them. Seems they think humoral immunity of the B cells and traditional autoimmunity of the T cells are the best bet at this stage.
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So you didn't actually really read this post (or Mad's post), did you OFTB?

"Current vaccine good (because I read that and had a Pharmaceutical Executive tell me so). Anyone who think differently, bad." Is that about right? Because you're really coming across as someone who's bordering on acting like that.
 
oneforthebus said:
Why people fear the vaccines more than they fear getting covid is just mind boggling to me. It's not based on anything factual.
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No, it's completely based on facts for many of us. The facts as they are = mRNA vaccine; untested, untenable, potentially bad side effects because of it's uncertainty.

What don't you get about that?
 
Steelworth said:
So you didn't actually really read this post (or Mad's post), did you OFTB?

"Current vaccine good (because I read that and had a Pharmaceutical Executive tell me so). Anyone who think differently, bad." Is that about right? Because you're really coming across as someone who's bordering on acting like that.
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I think I've posted enough real world data here to not be accused of that.

Meanwhile, you post this: "I worked with a lot of Microbiology PhDs at Caltech for several years and have the good fortune of being in contact with a couple of them still, and they're not on board with mRNA. The consensus seems to be that even traditional vaccines aren't going to protect much against mutations (like what happens with all viruses), but they're not against them. Seems they think humoral immunity of the B cells and traditional autoimmunity of the T cells are the best bet at this stage."

Are any of these folks willing to go public with this knowledge? Have they conducted or published any studies that demonstrate why they're not on board with these vaccines? Or are we just supposed to take "Some guys I work with think this" as some kind of scientific data.
 
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