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Covid Vaccine

Troglodyte said:
“Nearly half” WTF? 55% (THE MAJORITY)

Please do provide your source stating that 55% (of thousands mind you) is not a representative sample and not statistically significant.
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This isn't a result in voting! I'm not going to even try to explain this to you. Read up on Statistical Analysis and how sampling variables skew even low percentages, let alone a gap of 45%. To put it bluntly, 5% is significant when introducing variables.
 
madinsomniac said:
This is what the weird leaky virus argument is against these particular vaccines

the mrna ones target a specific spike protein… the articles raising concerns with them that were written mostly pre vaccine release to the public worried that this method ( as well as genetically modified virus vaccines like j&j might not have a great level of effect from virus mutations because its a narrow focus treatment…

as a stopgap it was a good idea, I guess… but long term there were concerns …
This is extremely important… the antibodies and immune response from these vaccines isnt the same as a natural infection nor is it the same as a vaccine that uses the actual dead or sterile virus.
these produce more robust immune responses that typically react better and faster to viral mutations because virus don’t dramatically mutate quickly… the body still usually recognizes them and deals with them accordingly

theoretically the vaccine antibody response in some cases can create a perfect storm where it fights some of but doesn’t kill the infection and like much of evolution, when a portion of the virus is fought off but the mutations that can get around it are left to spread until the body compensates, you get faster viral mutations spread…

this doesn’t happen in many vaccines… most fight the infection and mutations fairly well… this is usually a rarer thing, though using targeted genetic finagling the way these do, yes it was a possibility known at the start.

again, its just time to move to traditional vaccines… china did… the rest of the world seems to be looking at that… maybe we just need a different option to be safe
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see, that's what I thought this was going to be - a stopgap until a proven vaccine was available. that the mRNA vaccine would be a temporary fix - like duct tape. but now we have our politicians hawking this duct tape like the Sham Wow guy.
 
Troglodyte said:
So what? Allegheny County is a small fraction of Pennsylvania but it has several high level ICUs that take in transports from rural areas that aren’t equipped or staffed to care for them.
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We will accept a link so you can corroborate this claim.

Allegheny County is the 2nd largest county in PA. It represents nearly 10% of PA's total population. And you attempt to mitigate the PPG's reporting of Allegheny hospitals reporting 40% of their hospitalized are vaccinated people?

Heat maps of PA cases/hospitalizations show Pittsburgh and Philly as the hottest spots in the state.

It's comical. You post the PPG twice, contradicting itself.

According to the CDC studies, the vaccine’s effectiveness, which was at 91% before the delta variant became the dominant variant of the virus, has dropped to 66%.
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You will gloss over and ignore this. As you have for over a month. As the vaccines' efficacies wane, cases/hospitalizations/deaths will rise among the vaccinated.

Instead, you and the Kool-aid media spin it and say "la la la la the vaccines are magic!"
 
Tibs said:
Tim, Steeltime & the SN crew stands with Nicki Minaj! She's a leading scientific expert on the Covid vaccine, just like Tim! Keep your head on a swivel, don't trust the government, do your own research, folks! :ROFLMAO: 😭:ROFLMAO:😭

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can you confirm or deny that this is the exact same Nicki Minaj who interviewed Joe Xiden prior to the election and was urging her fans and followers to vote for the potato? the same Nicki Minaj who referred to Joy Reid as a "lying homophobic coon"?



the same Nicki Minaj who IS vaccinated?



please confirm/deny this, @Tibs

also, you misled me that we were going to have a discussion on how DeSantis failed Florida. I gave you a point to discuss and you scurried off without addressing. I was assuming you were crafting one of your eloquent responses, but in the end I'm now left to believe you don't even believe 90% of the **** you spew.
 
Tim Steelersfan said:
We will accept a link so you can corroborate this claim.

Allegheny County is the 2nd largest county in PA. It represents nearly 10% of PA's total population. And you attempt to mitigate the PPG's reporting of Allegheny hospitals reporting 40% of their hospitalized are vaccinated people?

Heat maps of PA cases/hospitalizations show Pittsburgh and Philly as the hottest spots in the state.

It's comical. You post the PPG twice, contradicting itself.



You will gloss over and ignore this. As you have for over a month. As the vaccines' efficacies wane, cases/hospitalizations/deaths will rise among the vaccinated.

Instead, you and the Kool-aid media spin it and say "la la la la the vaccines are magic!"
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Wow! You really think that rural areas have hospitals with Level 3 and 4 ICUs? You’re more naive than I ever imagined.
 
Superman said:
can you confirm or deny that this is the exact same Nicki Minaj who interviewed Joe Xiden prior to the election and was urging her fans and followers to vote for the potato? the same Nicki Minaj who referred to Joy Reid as a "lying homophobic coon"?



the same Nicki Minaj who IS vaccinated?



please confirm/deny this, @Tibs

also, you misled me that we were going to have a discussion on how DeSantis failed Florida. I gave you a point to discuss and you scurried off without addressing. I was assuming you were crafting one of your eloquent responses, but in the end I'm now left to believe you don't even believe 90% of the **** you spew.
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Someone’s been following Nicky Minaj very closely…
 
Tim Steelersfan said:
We will accept a link so you can corroborate this claim.

Allegheny County is the 2nd largest county in PA. It represents nearly 10% of PA's total population. And you attempt to mitigate the PPG's reporting of Allegheny hospitals reporting 40% of their hospitalized are vaccinated people?

Heat maps of PA cases/hospitalizations show Pittsburgh and Philly as the hottest spots in the state.

It's comical. You post the PPG twice, contradicting itself.



You will gloss over and ignore this. As you have for over a month. As the vaccines' efficacies wane, cases/hospitalizations/deaths will rise among the vaccinated.

Instead, you and the Kool-aid media spin it and say "la la la la the vaccines are magic!"
Click to expand...
Again 91% to 66% effective, so what? So it used to prevent even mild to moderate illness, now it may only prevent serious illness and hospitalization. I refer to the scientists who say this may very well be how the vaccine works and people will have lower but nonetheless significant immunity.
 
Troglodyte said:
Someone’s been following Nicky Minaj very closely…
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nah, son. its called twitter. find the person and scroll a timeline.

almost - ALMOST - as simple as finding a news article, reading it, posting the link to it then 100% completely forgetting what you've just posted. Which you make a habit of doing.
 
Thankfully, Tucker picked up this crucial, critical, breaking news story. lol

1631728871615.png
 
Troglodyte said:
Once again, I’m reminded of the movie “Idiocracy”. Won’t be long until “Ow, My Balls!” Is the highest rated TV show.
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someone's been following Tibsy very, very closely...
 
Abandoned by their GOP governor, looks like Floridians are taking things into their own hands.

Florida landlord says tenants must get coronavirus vaccine: ‘You don’t want to get vaccinated? You have to move.’​


Jasmine Irby was leaving her two-bedroom apartment in South Florida last month when she noticed a letter from the management company taped to her door.

It read: “As of August 15th, all new tenants must show proof of vaccination before moving in. … Existing tenants must show proof of vaccination before leases are renewed.” The policy, the notice stated, also applied to building employees.
 
Tibs said:
Tim, Steeltime & the SN crew stands with Nicki Minaj! She's a leading scientific expert on the Covid vaccine, just like Tim! Keep your head on a swivel, don't trust the government, do your own research, folks! :ROFLMAO: 😭:ROFLMAO:😭

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I wasn’t really trying to respond to this… lol niether you nor I nor anyone should really care what she thinks 😂😂😂😂
Badcat said:
This isn't a result in voting! I'm not going to even try to explain this to you. Read up on Statistical Analysis and how sampling variables skew even low percentages, let alone a gap of 45%. To put it bluntly, 5% is significant when introducing variables.
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It depends on how diverse the sampling is. Technically you don’t have to have 100% of all data everywhere to make an accurate educated estimate, but you do need to account for quite a bit of things to make sure data is representative… the more stratified tge data source is, the more data points you need to collect at an equal ratio
 
Tibs said:
Abandoned by their GOP governor, looks like Floridians are taking things into their own hands.

Florida landlord says tenants must get coronavirus vaccine: ‘You don’t want to get vaccinated? You have to move.’​


Jasmine Irby was leaving her two-bedroom apartment in South Florida last month when she noticed a letter from the management company taped to her door.

It read: “As of August 15th, all new tenants must show proof of vaccination before moving in. … Existing tenants must show proof of vaccination before leases are renewed.” The policy, the notice stated, also applied to building employees.
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I am fairly certain you cannot evict people for medical status nor can you legally ask for that… renting property is a whole different world of laws
 
Troglodyte said:
So it used to prevent even mild to moderate illness, now it may only prevent serious illness and hospitalization. I refer to the scientists who say this may very well be how the vaccine works and people will have lower but nonetheless significant immunity.
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Wait. So you're saying you trust the science that says "this may very well be?" "So it USED to do this, now it MAY only do this." That's your gospel? Doesn't sound very scientific.
 
Again, all of this is perfectly normal and acceptable in America, in 2021.

 
Sarge said:
Wait. So you're saying you trust the science that says "this may very well be?" "So it USED to do this, now it MAY only do this." That's your gospel? Doesn't sound very scientific.
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NO! That is science. Testing hypothesis and reaching conclusions based on observation. The debate regarding the need for a third dose is based on whether waning immunity will lead to increased hospitalizations and deaths. The scientists opposing the third dose are arguing that we haven’t yet observed a need for it.
 
Tibs said:
Again, all of this is perfectly normal and acceptable in America, in 2021.

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he died of gallstone pancreatitis, not your beloved virus.
look deeper.

abc13.com

Rural hospitals say open beds are 'becoming more of a luxury' as pandemic continues

One doctor says open beds are starting to become "more of a luxury" as the pandemic continues.
abc13.com abc13.com
There are 158 rural hospitals in Texas, according to TORCH, the Texas Organization of Rural and Community Hospitals, which serve 3.1 million Texans.

Many of those hospitals don't have ICUs.
 
Troglodyte said:
NO! That is science. Testing hypothesis and reaching conclusions based on observation. The debate regarding the need for a third dose is based on whether waning immunity will lead to increased hospitalizations and deaths. The scientists opposing the third dose are arguing that we haven’t yet observed a need for it.
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wrong.

science does not reach conclusions based on observations, then move on to the next subject, as you suggest. science constantly reviews itself to ensure that the "conclusion" is correct under different variables.
"follow the science" means to continue to test and continue to arrive at new conclusions. at no point does science "stop" as you ignorantly suggest.
 
Troglodyte said:
Again 91% to 66% effective, so what? So it used to prevent even mild to moderate illness, now it may only prevent serious illness and hospitalization. I refer to the scientists who say this may very well be how the vaccine works and people will have lower but nonetheless significant immunity.
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Ok so here is the crux of the argument you and Tibs willfully gloss over….

there is a rigid set of controlled, escalating clinical tests that have to be passed before a medicine or medication regimen is fully approved for use in this country…

the more novice the method the medicine employs, the more initial testing they do to rule out various issues, both short term and long term . The CDC has for years had this and other info openly on its website.

despite the rigorous testing products do occasionally slip through with bad side effects. Sometimes this is because of unforeseen complications with other medications, others because an effect simply wasn’t looked or tested for in the clinical trials, and more than just a few times a pharmaceutical company actually lied about clinical result data…

For this reason they implemented things like the vaers system , which is supposed to track every bad effect seen after a vaccine. When any serious effect shows even mild correlation between the vaccine and the symptoms, or anything shows up as a manufacturing issue, they temporarily halt the vaccine and require new testing or inspection.

if the issue persists then the product is discontinued or restricted….

this has happened probably a dozen times for approved vaccines through the past 25 years… most issues were proven not related to a vaccine and were put back in use

a handful were permanently pulled from the market

bear in mind though, hundreds if not thousands of potential vaccines failed in clinical trials and were never released….

these particular vaccines were given emergency status, which made sense at the time

however this meant they didn’t get the extended clinical testing that a novel treatment required… therefore the chance of serious long term effects is greatly increased… timeframes for typical approval have been listed on the cdc site for well over a decade… it’s typically 1-10 years phase 1, 2-4 phase 2, and 2-4 phase 3 iirc…. Newer methods tend to lean on the longer side of those to determine long term effects and what medications they can be mixed with..

moreover the vaers system did uncover serious correlations between heart issues, pregnancy issues, paralysis, strokes, sudden death and a few more that are serious enough and in the sufficient numbers that in every other case, the product would be temporarily pulled for further testing by older precedents… here they had a brief pause on J&J over the minor stroke issue… and while they acknowledge some of the other issues they are not pulling them….

and we have no assurances that in two or three more years these aren’t going to cause cancer, or birth defects, or organ damage… or any of the dozens of serious long term effects that derail treatments in longer clinical trials all the time…

so we know that the vaccines we are using aren’t “perfect” as in they don’t end the viral spread… and while we know that short term they do reduce severity, we don’t know what the long term effects are … so we don’t really know if we are saving lives or ultimately dooming them… that's why it has to be a personal choice…
 
Troglodyte said:
NO! That is science. Testing hypothesis and reaching conclusions based on observation. The debate regarding the need for a third dose is based on whether waning immunity will lead to increased hospitalizations and deaths. The scientists opposing the third dose are arguing that we haven’t yet observed a need for it.
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No actually a good amount of the scientific argument against the repeated boosters is mostly that we shouldn’t be wasting boosters on people with some potential immunity when much of the world has no access to any shots… and that there has not been sufficient testing on repeated injections yet… believe it or not, just because one or two shots are safe doesn’t mean three or twelve are… and cross vaccination might be problematic as well
 
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