Covid Vaccine

[Tim Steelersfan]

Not being able to predict the future doesn't seem like a great reason not to protect yourself in the near term especially if you are someone who is vulnerable to severe illness or death from covid.

If these were traditionally manufactured vaccines, I'd wholeheartedly agree with you.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

I am in Western Maryland where just under 50% are vaxxed in my county…far lower than the state %. Stats here are that about 85% of those hospitalized with COVID are unvaxxed. I would imagine the death rate is about the same.

Seems to be in line with the small sample of people I know who have had it recently.

Not sure how that negates his statement that 40% of the people who died of Covid in the past 6-8 weeks were vaccinated. He's pulling this from state data.

 

[Buster]

Not sure how that negates his statement that 40% of the people who died of Covid in the past 6-8 weeks were vaccinated.

It doesn’t. Just stating the stats for my area which is less populous than the urban areas. If anything it would probably lend to the fact that the death rate of vaxxed in the urban areas is higher than 40%.
Of course, we have to believe that all of these numbers are accurate. Who knows?
Most choose the stats that they agree with and go with it.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

Huge protest in Switzerland against the mandates. We need more of this.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

It doesn’t. Just stating the stats for my area which is less populous than the urban areas. If anything it would probably lend to the fact that the death rate of vaxxed in the urban areas is higher than 40%.
Of course, we have to believe that all of these numbers are accurate. Who knows?
Most choose the stats that they agree with and go with it.

Just sharing his, which are state-wide.

You and I have exchanged info in the past and don't live far from each other. I just looked up your county's stats.

You're right, 84% of those hospitalized aren't vaxed.
Of those in the ICU, 75% are unvaxed.
67% of those on a vent are unvaxed.

Or...
16% hospitalized are vaxed
25% in the ICU are vaxed
33% of those on a vent are vaxed.

In a very low vaxed county.

 

[Ironcitysteelers]

No it’s not for the benefit of the COVID patient. It’s to keep the relatives from getting COVID from the patient. Keeping COVID positive people out is for the benefit of all the other patients as well as the healthcare providers. It’s not just COVID, it’s any contagious disease that someone is known to have. If you work in hospitals you’re well aware of this. I’m curious what you think the real motivation is if not infection control. All part of the big conspiracy I guess.

When someone is on isolation for let’s say Cdiff, can there family come in. Yes. Protocols are in place for any that center the room. Staff or family.

So if we are told that our poke protects us, our face rubber protects us then why can’t I see my love one who is passing?

So it’s one or the other for me. Either the poke works, the PPE works or they don’t. If the PPE can protect me, than why can’t a family don such items and be safe to say good by. If they say no your not safe, they are saying the PPE doesn’t work.

This is actually what I believe especially spending a **** ton against osha with experts. N95s do not provide ang level of coverage of what’s being sold (minimal at best) against an aerosol like TB which rona is.

My point if I’m cleared bc of a test I should be able to say good by to a loved one and put myself at risk if I so decide. Wrap me up in PPE and let me in

 

[Steelworth]

Oh stop being so melodramatic. No we don't let people die. There are other treatments that are very effective against this virus besides the vaccine. You don't necessarily HAVE to be vaccinated.

I never said that we should study vaccines for a lifetime. But these vaccines have not been studied for even the standard 10-15 that vaccines typically go through. You could argue that MRNA vaccines in general have been studied for a while, but then you'd also have to admit that they have been a failure by and large. These Covid vaccines represent a modest success I suppose, in that it gets you 3-6 months of at least some protection. Monoclonal antibodies and other therapeutics have been very effective, but for some reason keep getting dismissed as ineffective. Same with natural immunity.

I am not opposed to these vaccines, but lets not make it the end all be all in the fight against this virus. It doesn't prevent contracting, spreading or dying from this virus.

You and I (along with millions of others) already know this, but:

Actually, Monoclonal antibodies are pretty pricey, but Pfizer and BioNTech raked in $11.8 billion (per the NY Slimes) and that's just as of March of this year. Think about how much more they've made since and the revenue they're generating from 'boosters'.

 

[Confluence]

The only way to know if protection lasts a lifetime is to study it for a lifetime. We didn't do that with other vaccines before using them. Meanwhile we just what, let people get hospitalized and die of a preventable contagious illness? Even if it's only preventable for 6 months or a year at a time? I hope one day we'll have better vaccines that provide lifelong immunity. We have those for some illnesses, only shorter term vaccines for others. Until we do though these are the best weapon we've got.

The experience in India's Uttar Pradesh says different.

 

[Troglodyte]

Playing by your rules. YOU compared WV and VT.



You're guessing.



As I've said to OFTB, your math argument would work...if prior numbers fell in accordance.

Maryland's 7 day Deaths Averages:
Highest of 2020: May 25, 2020 - 67 deaths - 0% vaccinated
Highest of 2021: May 28, 2021 - 90 deaths - 47.2% fully vaxed, 56.8% partially vaxed on THAT date.

Now one would logically expect that if you had half your state vaccinated against the WuFlu, deaths would have DECREASED from the prior year. They INCREASED. By 35%.

I guess the vaccines take time to wind up or something?

As I said before, I guess I'm a traditionalist and expect that as vaccination rates go up, deaths go down. They didn't in MD.



They don't as I just illustrated. These are the worst vaccines still in mainstream use on the market today re: effectiveness.

And your argument wouldn’t be pathetic and fraudulent if Maryland hadn’t RECLASSIFIED 517 DEATHS on May 27, 2021!

Enjoy your **** sandwich.

Maryland officials reclassify 517 deaths as COVID fatalities, bringing death toll to over 9,300

Maryland officials recategorized Thursday 517 deaths over the last year as coronavirus fatalities, meaning the virus’ toll stands at more than 9,300 casualties.

www.baltimoresun.com

 

[Troglodyte]

Hundreds of medical studies and the medical professionals behind it disagree with your free-loading ***.

Israel - vaccinated people are 13.2x more likely to contract Covid than those with prior Covid infection. <----fake news!! JFC!

We've provided the studies. You choose not to read due to ideology. Why bother to share the data again?

Keep the faith.

“Studies” are not health officials declaring that natural immunity is the answer as you claim. Why not post a link of health officials saying natural immunity is the answer or that is the conclusion drawn from those studies?

 

[Steeltime]

“Studies” are not health officials declaring that natural immunity is the answer as you claim. Why not post a link of health officials saying natural immunity is the answer or that is the conclusion drawn from those studies?

There is something wrong with you. Really, there is.

I have repeatedly agreed that the vaccines are extremely effective and every person over age 60 and anybody with a co-morbidity, including obesity, get the vaccine. I have said that those between 18 and 60 should definitely consider the vaccine if they are in any occupation with likely exposure to those infected with the Chinese flu. I have said that it simply makes no sense to give the vaccine to those under 18 given the tiny number who wind up with serious consequences from the Chinese flu.

"The risk of side effects is minimal." - Floggy.
"For those 18 and under, so is the risk from the ******* disease itself, so why risk the side effects?" - Steeltime.
"But, but, but ... almost 500 under age 18 dead from Chinese flu!" - Floggy.
"Or about 1/8th the number who drown each year. How many have suffered serious side effects, like myocarditis?"

We just don't know. The government is not funding studies to answer the question, but if more than 5,000 young people incur myocarditis, then that is a huge ******* deal.

Meanwhile, you repeatedly dismiss natural immunity when we know two things about natural immunity: (1) It is incredibly effective according to research from Israel and the NIH, and (2) we don't know of any instance to my knowledge - literally not one and I researched the issue - of a person with natural immunity who caught the Chinese flu a second time and died.

Meanwhile, we know this about natural immunity:

The research was funded in part by NIH’s National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID) and National Cancer Institute (NCI). Results were published on January 6, 2021, in Science.

The researchers found durable immune responses in the majority of people studied. Antibodies against the spike protein of SARS-CoV-2, which the virus uses to get inside cells, were found in 98% of participants one month after symptom onset. As seen in previous studies, the number of antibodies ranged widely between individuals. But, promisingly, their levels remained fairly stable over time, declining only modestly at 6 to 8 months after infection.

Virus-specific B cells increased over time. People had more memory B cells six months after symptom onset than at one month afterwards. Although the number of these cells appeared to reach a plateau after a few months, levels didn’t decline over the period studied.

Levels of T cells for the virus also remained high after infection. Six months after symptom onset, 92% of participants had CD4+ T cells that recognized the virus. These cells help coordinate the immune response. About half the participants had CD8+ T cells, which kill cells that are infected by the virus.

As with antibodies, the numbers of different immune cell types varied substantially between individuals. Neither gender nor differences in disease severity could account for this variability. However, 95% of the people had at least 3 out of 5 immune-system components that could recognize SARS-CoV-2 up to 8 months after infection.

“Several months ago, our studies showed that natural infection induced a strong response, and this study now shows that the responses last,” Weiskopf says. “We are hopeful that a similar pattern of responses lasting over time will also emerge for the vaccine-induced responses.”

—by Sharon Reynolds

Lasting immunity found after recovery from COVID-19

The immune systems of more than 95% of people who recovered from COVID-19 had durable memories of the virus up to eight months after infection.

www.nih.gov

And yet you inexplicably diminish natural immunity, though it seems longer-lasting than the vaccine, and as far as I can tell, unlike the vaccine operates as a 100% barrier to mortality from the Chinese flu.

You know what I call somebody who irrationally clings to a belief no matter the evidence? A cult member. Your cult leader? Joe the Demented, spewing hatred towards the unbelievers, promising revenge against the non-believers, promising nirvana for his followers.

Keep drinking the Kool-Aid, little man, keep drinking the Kool-Aid.

 

[Troglodyte]

There is something wrong with you. Really, there is.

I have repeatedly agreed that the vaccines are extremely effective and every person over age 60 and anybody with a co-morbidity, including obesity, get the vaccine. I have said that those between 18 and 60 should definitely consider the vaccine if they are in any occupation with likely exposure to those infected with the Chinese flu. I have said that it simply makes no sense to give the vaccine to those under 18 given the tiny number who wind up with serious consequences from the Chinese flu.

"The risk of side effects is minimal." - Floggy.
"For those 18 and under, so is the risk from the ******* disease itself, so why risk the side effects?" - Steeltime.
"But, but, but ... almost 500 under age 18 dead from Chinese flu!" - Floggy.
"Or about 1/8th the number who drown each year. How many have suffered serious side effects, like myocarditis?"

We just don't know. The government is not funding studies to answer the question, but if more than 5,000 young people incur myocarditis, then that is a huge ******* deal.

Meanwhile, you repeatedly dismiss natural immunity when we know two things about natural immunity: (1) It is incredibly effective according to research from Israel and the NIH, and (2) we don't know of any instance to my knowledge - literally not one and I researched the issue - of a person with natural immunity who caught the Chinese flu a second time and died.

Meanwhile, we know this about natural immunity:

Lasting immunity found after recovery from COVID-19

The immune systems of more than 95% of people who recovered from COVID-19 had durable memories of the virus up to eight months after infection.

www.nih.gov

And yet you inexplicably diminish natural immunity, though it seems longer-lasting than the vaccine, and as far as I can tell, unlike the vaccine operates as a 100% barrier to mortality from the Chinese flu.

You know what I call somebody who irrationally clings to a belief no matter the evidence? A cult member. Your cult leader? Joe the Demented, spewing hatred towards the unbelievers, promising revenge against the non-believers, promising nirvana for his followers.

Keep drinking the Kool-Aid, little man, keep drinking the Kool-Aid.

That’s a long winded way of NOT ANSWERING A QUESTION. Where are the health officials saying that natural immunity is the answer???

AND…

Myocarditis is more common after covid-19 infection than vaccination

A preliminary study suggests that, among those most likely to develop myocarditis, the heart condition is six times more likely to occur after having covid-19 than after getting vaccinated

www.newscientist.com

 

[Steeltime]

Health officials? You mean like the NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF HEALTH?!?

It's in the ******* name, imbecile.

Second, your article compares getting the Chinese flu and suffering myocarditis to young people getting the vaccine and developing myocarditis. Huh, I guess they're equal. About time those young kids intentionally getting the Chinese flu knock it off, cuz getting the vaccine is an intentional act. You get that, right?

Oh, and do you read the **** you cite? From your article:

The small risk of myocarditis after the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine is one reason why the UK’s Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI) hasn’t yet recommended this vaccine – the only one licensed for use in under-18s in the UK – for most children aged 12 and over. While countries such as Ireland and the US are letting teenagers get vaccinated, the JCVI said in July that only younger people who are highly vulnerable or living with someone with a weak immune system could have the jab.

Iacob says people who have been vaccinated or had covid-19 should be aware of possible symptoms of myocarditis, especially chest pain that is burning or sharp and worsens on changing position.

Idiot.

 

[Superman]

You and I (along with millions of others) already know this, but:

Actually, Monoclonal antibodies are pretty pricey, but Pfizer and BioNTech raked in $11.8 billion (per the NY Slimes) and that's just as of March of this year. Think about how much more they've made since and the revenue they're generating from 'boosters'.

but de vaccine shot be free. i aint be pay a dolla fo mines

 

[Troglodyte]

Health officials? You mean like the NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF HEALTH?!?

It's in the ******* name, imbecile.

Second, your article compares getting the Chinese flu and suffering myocarditis to young people getting the vaccine and developing myocarditis. Huh, I guess they're equal. About time those young kids intentionally getting the Chinese flu knock it off, cuz getting the vaccine is an intentional act. You get that, right?

Oh, and do you read the **** you cite? From your article:



Idiot.

Where is the NIH stating that natural immunity is the answer? Quite a headline.

And what the **** are you trying to argue? To get natural immunity, you need to get INFECTED WITH COVID. So… to get natural immunity (“the answer”) you need to assume SIX TIMES the risk of getting myocarditis in order to avoid getting immunity through the vaccine and thus avoiding a much smaller risk of… myocarditis! Idiot.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

And your argument wouldn’t be pathetic and fraudulent if Maryland hadn’t RECLASSIFIED 517 DEATHS on May 27, 2021!

Enjoy your **** sandwich.

Maryland officials reclassify 517 deaths as COVID fatalities, bringing death toll to over 9,300

Maryland officials recategorized Thursday 517 deaths over the last year as coronavirus fatalities, meaning the virus’ toll stands at more than 9,300 casualties.

www.baltimoresun.com

Son, it doesn't matter how we slice this, you lose. May 25, 2020 was also an adjustment day for deaths for the state.

Let me remind you of a simple principle with effective vaccines - vaccination goes up, deaths go down.

October 1-October 25, 2020: MD averaged 6 deaths per day.
October 1-October 25, 2021: MD averaging 15 deaths per day.

MD is currently suffering nearly 3x as many deaths in October this year than we did last year...despite being the 8th most vaxed state in the nation.

Yeah, these are wonder vaccines.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

“Studies” are not health officials declaring that natural immunity is the answer as you claim. Why not post a link of health officials saying natural immunity is the answer or that is the conclusion drawn from those studies?

Every other virus in history has been defeated by only natural immunity, or a combination of natural immunity + vaccines.

These vaccines aren't as effective as natural immunity. That's what the studies show. Natural immunity is better protection. So it is going to take natural immunity + the vaccines to get it under control. As natural immunity increases, the virus will wane.

You'll get it. We will all get it. It's just a matter of time.

 

[jitter77]

I got the booster yesterday and feel like crap today. I would say about 75% who got it yesterday feel horrible. Our DON and Admin both called off with side effects.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

Health officials? You mean like the NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF HEALTH?!?

It's in the ******* name, imbecile.

Second, your article compares getting the Chinese flu and suffering myocarditis to young people getting the vaccine and developing myocarditis. Huh, I guess they're equal. About time those young kids intentionally getting the Chinese flu knock it off, cuz getting the vaccine is an intentional act. You get that, right?

Oh, and do you read the **** you cite? From your article:



Idiot.

Floggy is playing his stupid *** game of "gotya" that he plays when he is being soundly beaten. He can't debate on the merits, so he tries to catch posters making errors in their post. Like the FBI getting Al Capone on mail fraud.

Floggy is honing in on this comment I made and taking it out of context so as to try to win some points or something:

"Natural immunity is the answer sadly, given the vaccines don't prevent spread."

He believes I intended that everyone should go and contract Covid willingly in order to beat the virus. When the intent was that it's going to take the build up of natural immunity to finally get us over the hump (along with the ineffective vaccines) because the vaccines alone aren't doing the job.

Don't let him sidetrack you.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

I got the booster yesterday and feel like crap today. I would say about 75% who got it yesterday feel horrible. Our DON and Admin both called off with side effects.

My sister had Moderna. First dose was fine. The 2nd dose made her violently ill. Bed-ridden for 2 days. She said they would have to kill her before she gets a booster again.

 

[Steeltime]

Where is the NIH stating that natural immunity is the answer? Quite a headline.

And what the **** are you trying to argue? To get natural immunity, you need to get INFECTED WITH COVID. So… to get natural immunity (“the answer”) you need to assume SIX TIMES the risk of getting myocarditis in order to avoid getting immunity through the vaccine and thus avoiding a much smaller risk of… myocarditis! Idiot.

Let me explain this in a way that even an idiot can understand. I realize you still won't get it, so have 21IQ read what I post, have him talk to a 2nd grader, then have the 2nd grader call you and explain the following:

• Chinese flu runs risk of creating myocarditis. Very small subset, tiny really, but still.
• Vaccine runs risk of creating myocarditis. Very small subset, tiny really, but still.
• Only one of those - ONE - is incurred intentionally.
• You are the one - YOU, not me, idiot - encouraging a vast group of people to expose themselves intentionally to the small risk of a bad side effect EVEN WHEN THEY DON'T NEED TO RISK THE SIDE EFFECT AT ALL, ZERO REASON, NONE, because of natural immunity.

Get it? Of course not. Freeloading imbeciles gonna freeload imbecile.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

Well said Nigel.

Two-tiered societies are no answer to vaccine hesitancy | Opinion

Leaders across the Western world have been clamoring towards segregationist policies that would pit the vaccinated against the unvaccinated.

www.newsweek.com

A few days ago, British Prime Minister Boris Johnson told news cameras that the COVID vaccine "doesn't protect you against catching the disease, and it doesn't protect you against passing it on." In one fell swoop (and probably unaware of it), Johnson eviscerated the premise behind vaccine passports.

Nonetheless, leaders across the Western world have been clamoring toward segregationist policies that would pit the vaccinated against the unvaccinated, effectively creating "two-tier" societies.

The latest missive from Jacinda Ardern—the prime minister of New Zealand once lauded as the world's second "top thinker" on COVID—should serve as the most heinous example of policymaking we've heard so far.

Asked if she was cultivating a two-tier class system of the vaccinated and unvaccinated, Ardern stunningly admitted: "That is what it is, so, yep."

She even smirked when making the admission, as if to signal that she does not even intend to seem reluctant or reticent to restrict the rights of her fellow countrymen anymore.

Ardern went on to discuss precisely why "rights" need to be stripped away for those who are not keen on taking the vaccines or their boosters.

New Zealand isn't the only country toying with such authoritarian measures.

Austria's chancellor recently mooted fresh lockdowns targeted at those without the vaccine. These ideas would create nations with extremely fractious divisions. Countries of the "jabbed" and the "jab-nots."

Repeating the broken record mantra of the Biden administration in America, Chancellor Alexander Schallenberg said: "The pandemic is not yet in the rearview mirror. ...We are about to stumble into a pandemic of the unvaccinated."

Except much of the data available to the public does not necessarily suggest the unvaccinated are the problem. And civil discourse on the matter is not allowed, in any event.

If Prime Minister Johnson's utterances on the subject are to be believed, the vaccinated are not protected from catching or spreading the virus. And it is the vaccinated who are mostly likely to fraternize with abandon.

Such social interactions may only increase as nations like France, Scotland and Wales give priority partying privileges to the double-jabbed—and, in the long term, perhaps only the "boosted."

Right now, a vaccine passport is required to dine inside across France, to attend nightclubs in Scotland and even potentially to watch live sporting events outside.

Americans—being unique in the Western world about their willingness to protect their God-given rights—should appreciate the importance of maintaining freedoms for all of a nation's citizens, not just those who fall into politically or medically expedient categories at any given time.

For instance, I personally am double-vaccinated. At 57 years of age, and as a lifelong smoker, it made sense for me personally. But state bullying is loathsome, and multi-tiered societies are a reminder of dark days from centuries past.

Now, some of America's own statesmen are joining the push toward this tyranny.

Speaking to the BBC this past weekend, former presidential candidate Hillary Clinton demanded of Prime Minister Boris Johnson: "I do think it is imperative that the prime minister do what he can to stop the rise in COVID in the U.K. He doesn't need to shut the society down, but he does need to mandate vaccines."

Her intervention could not have come at a worse time. British case numbers have once again started to trend downwards, as the political appetite for further lockdowns wanes in the face of a weary public.

The same, perhaps, can also be said for the United States.

Images and videos of protesting workers, parents and even Black Lives Matter activists may scarcely adorn the nightly news broadcasts. But direct action is happening, and the resistance to vaccine mandates across the Western world is growing, not shrinking.

In France, the vaccinated are seen to march alongside the unvaccinated, in solidarity with their personal health care decisions.

I hope Americans can find it within themselves to tolerate the decisions of their fellow citizens, rather than bumbling into a class-based society that will not stop at two jabs, two jabs and a booster, two jabs and two boosters, or more.

Freedom is only ever one generation away from extinction, as President Ronald Reagan once said. Let it not be this one.

 

[Superman]

I got the booster yesterday and feel like crap today. I would say about 75% who got it yesterday feel horrible. Our DON and Admin both called off with side effects.

JFC - where do you work? we need an address, stat. new variant will undoubtedly explode from where you're employed.

 

[Steeltime]

JFC - where do you work? we need an address, stat. new variant will undoubtedly explode from where you're employed.

I think he works in a lab somewhere far from the United States, Wooyhawn or something like that.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

LOL

Virus Gonna Virus

Virus gonna virus

Gonna virus gonna virus gonna virus gonna…

alexberenson.substack.com

We are almost two years into the plague di tutti plagues, the virus with a 3 in 1,000 death rate (give or take), which rounds down to roughly 0 in 1,000 for the non-elderly and morbidly obese.

Along the way, lots of different states and countries have pursued lots of different strategies, from Zero Covid to Zero Restrictions, from early vaccines to late vaccines to (basically) no vaccines.

Two years should be long enough to know who wore it best, amirite? So let’s go to the videotape!

Here’s the United Kingdom (heavy early lockdown, 70% vaccinated, tons of testing, just like the public health people want)

Erm. Not so good.

And here’s India (hard early lockdown, 20% fully vaccinated, very few with mRNA vaccines)

Okay, they had that big spikeroo in the spring, but they don’t look bad. But also they’re relatively young.

Now here’s Colombia (VERY hard early lockdown, 39% fully vaccinated)

Three, count them three, different waves, but nothing the last six months. Hmm. Maybe 39% vaccinated is the magic number?

Or maybe not. Because here’s Russia (light lockdowns, 33% vaccinated):

Mother Russia! Clearly some hard lockdowns are in order. And speaking of lockdowns, maybe Australia (SUPER hard lockdowns, explicit Zero Covid strategy, late but aggressive vaccinations) has the answer?

Looking good for a while, Australia… but not so much now.

It’s almost - hear me out, this is gonna sound CRAZEE - government strategies have made NO DIFFERENCE to the spread of this highly contagious but only moderately dangerous respiratory disease.

There is one exception, though.

I give you the People’s Republic of China, without which we wouldn’t be talking about the ro at all. Somehow Xi and Shi, the dear leader and the bat lady, have managed to make Covid go bye-bye - without a single jab of our fancy Western vaccines.

Virus gonna virus. And China gonna China.

It’s a miracle, I tell ya. A miracle!