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After the Republic

SteelChip

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I just received this article, it didn't interest me at first but as I read on....it caught my attention.

I'll briefly highlight some paragraphs, yinz can link or not.

After the Republic

By: Angelo M. Codevilla
September 27, 2016
http://www.claremont.org/crb/basicpage/after-the-republic/

In fact, the 2016 election is sealing the United States’s transition from that republic to some kind of empire.

Electing either Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump cannot change that trajectory. Because each candidate represents constituencies hostile to republicanism, each in its own way, these individuals are not what this election is about. This election is about whether the Democratic Party, the ruling class’s enforcer, will impose its tastes more strongly and arbitrarily than ever, or whether constituencies opposed to that rule will get some ill-defined chance to strike back. Regardless of the election’s outcome, the republic established by America’s Founders is probably gone. But since the Democratic Party’s constituencies differ radically from their opponents’, and since the character of imperial governance depends inherently on the emperor, the election’s result will make a big difference in our lives.

From the primary season’s outset, the Democratic Party’s candidates promised even more radical “transformations.” When, rarely, they have been asked what gives them the right to do such things they have acted as if the only answer were Nancy Pelosi’s reply to whether the Constitution allows the government to force us into Obamacare: “Are you kidding? Are you kidding?”

Rather than talk about how to restrain or shrink government, Republican candidates talked about how to do more with government. The Wall Street Journal called that “having a positive agenda.” Hence, Republicans by and large joined the Democrats in relegating the U.S. Constitution to history’s dustbin.

All ruling classes are what Shakespeare called the “makers of manners.” Plato, in The Republic, and Aristotle, in his Politics, teach that polities reflect the persons who rise to prominence within them, whose habits the people imitate, and who set the tone of life in them.

In today’s America, a network of executive, judicial, bureaucratic, and social kinship channels bypasses the sovereignty of citizens. Our imperial regime, already in force, works on a simple principle: the president and the cronies who populate these channels may do whatever they like so long as the bureaucracy obeys and one third plus one of the Senate protects him from impeachment.

In short, precisely as the classics defined regime change, people and practices that had been at society’s margins have been brought to its center, while people and ideas that had been central have been marginalized.

Under our ruling class, “truth” has morphed from the reflection of objective reality to whatever has “normative pull”—i.e., to what furthers the ruling class’s agenda, whatever that might be at any given time. That is the meaning of the term “political correctness,” as opposed to factual correctness.

We have stepped over the threshold of a revolution. It is difficult to imagine how we might step back, and futile to speculate where it will end. Our ruling class’s malfeasance, combined with insult, brought it about. Donald Trump did not cause it and is by no means its ultimate manifestation. Regardless of who wins in 2016, this revolution’s sentiments will grow in volume and intensity, and are sure to empower politicians likely to make Americans nostalgic for Donald Trump’s moderation.
 
I've pretty much felt this way the last 8 years about the republic. I think it's pretty much over . Damn shame too.
 
If Hildebeast wins, I'm moving to my ancestral homeland of Italy. Their version of the Tea Party is taking over and winning elections and Islam is not an officially recognized religion. Also the food is awesome and the women are unbelievably smoking hot.
 
I'm just waiting for one of the states to break away from all of this nonsense. I'd guess Texas.
 
I'm just waiting for one of the states to break away from all of this nonsense. I'd guess Texas.

I don't think Constitutionally that can even happen. There is no provision to opt out. You can probably try by force but you would be a single state against the entire force of the US Military. I do wonder if a state could actually fracture and be recognized. I would image at some point folks in all areas of Pennsylvania outside of Philadelphia getting fed up with that small area driving the narrative for almost the entire Commonwealth and sucking up all the funding. An example is when the Governor tried to toll Interstate 80 in northern PA to pay for Philadelphia infrastructure with no benefit to the people who actually use that Interstate.
 
I don't think Constitutionally that can even happen. There is no provision to opt out. You can probably try by force but you would be a single state against the entire force of the US Military. I do wonder if a state could actually fracture and be recognized. I would image at some point folks in all areas of Pennsylvania outside of Philadelphia getting fed up with that small area driving the narrative for almost the entire Commonwealth and sucking up all the funding. An example is when the Governor tried to toll Interstate 80 in northern PA to pay for Philadelphia infrastructure with no benefit to the people who actually use that Interstate.

If the states may not voluntarily leave the compact then the compact itself was never valid. There was never any provision for the colonies to seperate from the British Crown. The bottom line is that every society has the right to self determination, we even set a precedent for it in the Balkans in the 90s.
 
I don't think Constitutionally that can even happen. There is no provision to opt out. You can probably try by force but you would be a single state against the entire force of the US Military. I do wonder if a state could actually fracture and be recognized. I would image at some point folks in all areas of Pennsylvania outside of Philadelphia getting fed up with that small area driving the narrative for almost the entire Commonwealth and sucking up all the funding. An example is when the Governor tried to toll Interstate 80 in northern PA to pay for Philadelphia infrastructure with no benefit to the people who actually use that Interstate.

Judging by the actions of the federal government (the president &congress) the constitution is just some old piece of paper that they use when it benefits them. You can thrown in our Supreme Court as well. This election is massive when it comes to them. At some point the **** will hit the fan. It's almost a mathematical certainty. The scales have tipped so far toward eventual revolution that I just don't see any reconciliation without force. I hope the hell i am wrong, but the writing on the wall is very clear.
 
If the states may not voluntarily leave the compact then the compact itself was never valid. There was never any provision for the colonies to seperate from the British Crown. The bottom line is that every society has the right to self determination, we even set a precedent for it in the Balkans in the 90s.

Well...the Declaration of Independence notified Britain of our split and of course started the war. I'm stating the same thing...a state would have to declare their secession and be ready to face the US military. The Constitution laid the framework of our Government and there is nothing there for a state or Commonwealth to separate. You are correct, that a state has a right to self determination but that doesn't mean you can just walk away.
 
Judging by the actions of the federal government (the president &congress) the constitution is just some old piece of paper that they use when it benefits them. You can thrown in our Supreme Court as well. This election is massive when it comes to them. At some point the **** will hit the fan. It's almost a mathematical certainty. The scales have tipped so far toward eventual revolution that I just don't see any reconciliation without force. I hope the hell i am wrong, but the writing on the wall is very clear.

This isn't 1776. There isn't a militia in the US that could withstand the brute force of the Federal Government unleashing the military. Hell, there isn't country in the world that could go toe-to-toe with the US military if they were permitted to fight without restraint. When you get back on board the reality train, it's just a bunch of cranky people yelling oppression and then going back home to watch TMZ at night.
 
They don't care about what we want, that's for sure. There is just so much money involved that they can't ignore the temptation.

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Any kind of Civil War would have to be a Ghandi style peaceful resistance. Basically and entire state of citizens going on strike refusing to do the federal government's orders.

The problem is the people talking about a revolution like this aren't Ghandi type people. They love their guns and are very independent and strong-willed peoples. If they ever fire the first shot, the whole thing is over. And the media and federal government propaganda machine would certainly spin any violence that erupts into the revolutionary's fault.

There has to be a sort of sympathetic support of a separation of states. People need to feel the federal government overstepped or is suppressing the individual.

Might be Texas but could be something smaller like Nevada or Arizona or New Mexico. Water rights could spur it. A failed economy. Over taxation. It would probably start democratically (a huge majority vote on a referendum to leave the union), kind of like Brexit then the **** hits the fan and how the federal government reacts to a majority opinion will dictate peace vs. violence.

Maybe the United States of America is so divided and different that we should become two countries.
 
Even a state full of peaceful resistance wouldn't work....there is no mechanism to secede. You can have something like when Virginia split up back during the Civil War. Virginia declares to secede from the Union but during a second convention, the people in the counties of what would be become West Virginia voted to stay. That vote split the state creating a new state originally called the State of Kanawha which was then changed to West Virginia. SO......Virginia broke from the Union like the other states which brought about the Civil War.
 
Maybe the United States of America is so divided and different that we should become two countries.
Geographically impossible, since the centers of the lib/prog mindset reside in urban centers all across the country - red and blue states alike - while suburban and rural America have retained a traditional/conservative ideology. But I see what you're saying. Perhaps the fictional "Atlas" in Ayn Rand's book will finally "shrug"? Problem is, the movers/makers/shakers of this country are so embedded with the political parties, I don't know if any independent, "free market, free minds"-type thinkers in Capitalist America exist.
 
you all are kidding yourselves.

The American public has no stomach for revolution; a smalll percentage only are upset and not even enough to call bullshit on the federal political process.

The next steps involve the inclusion of more political parties, coalition governing parties, etc. just like in other western countries.

No new borders, no leaving the republic, just more political parties more clearly enunciating their views, kind of the like the non-hillary supporters now. They will just get better organized, but that will take years to filter down to the state level.

Back to Football y'all!!
 
you all are kidding yourselves.

The American public has no stomach for revolution; a smalll percentage only are upset and not even enough to call bullshit on the federal political process.

The next steps involve the inclusion of more political parties, coalition governing parties, etc. just like in other western countries.

No new borders, no leaving the republic, just more political parties more clearly enunciating their views, kind of the like the non-hillary supporters now. They will just get better organized, but that will take years to filter down to the state level.

Back to Football y'all!!

Coalition Government? With our system being two-party for so long I wonder how that would work? Would it completely bring everything to a halt or would it move decisions and laws along quicker since Gov't would have to "get along" to get anything passed?
 
If Hildebeast wins, I'm moving to my ancestral homeland of Italy. Their version of the Tea Party is taking over and winning elections and Islam is not an officially recognized religion. Also the food is awesome and the women are unbelievably smoking hot.

Yeah, and 50% of the people opt out of paying their taxes. The nation is very broke and has something like 20+ political parties. Only move there is you're very rich.

As for the women, they can be hot, but they don't seem to be marrying or having enough babies to replace the population.

Italy is in decline.
 
This isn't 1776. There isn't a militia in the US that could withstand the brute force of the Federal Government unleashing the military. Hell, there isn't country in the world that could go toe-to-toe with the US military if they were permitted to fight without restraint. When you get back on board the reality train, it's just a bunch of cranky people yelling oppression and then going back home to watch TMZ at night.

I think you're mistaken about our military turning on Americans . The reality is it's just a matter of time. That's a reality train.
 
When you elect commies, you get communism. The liberals are to blame.
 
Because the federal government blows our ******* money on bullshit and expanding government. Then they want more because they're in the hole. Shocking.Of course people do not want to pay **** tons of federal income tax. Who the hell does. We have state taxes federal taxes,social security taxes Medicare taxes,,city taxes,death taxes ,sales taxes,Obamacare tax,taxes taxes taxes,fees and regulations out the *** in this country. It's ridiculous.

It's just a money sucking black hole. And what do we get? More taxes!
 
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Yeah, and 50% of the people opt out of paying their taxes.
Tax evasion is the national sport.

Only move there is you're very rich.
I'm a funeral director. May not be rich but I will always have work. :smile2:

As for the women, they can be hot, but they don't seem to be marrying or having enough babies to replace the population.

Italy is in decline.

That's because the economy sucks. Five Star Movement may turn it around though. Similar to our Tea Party, sort of a "throw all the bums out" movement. Big referendum coming up to streamline the government and make it more efficient and less costly.
 

In the U.S. you don't "opt out" of paying your taxes. Sometimes the tax code simply works out that you don't owe any. That ain't Trump's fault. Hey, I'm all in favor of the Flat Tax or Fair Tax.
 
Sometimes the tax code simply works out that you don't owe any.
Sorry to say you've lost your mind Ron. You're characterizing Trump driving his businesses into the dirt to the tune of nearly a billion dollars, then using that to avoid paying taxes as ''sometimes the tax code simply works out that way?"' Good God.
 
I'm guessing if Trump broke any tax laws he'll be in prison for tax evasion after Hillary wins. If he didn't, and I suspect that's the case, he won't.

How do you feel about the Clinton's donating over a million of their income to the Clinton Foundation?
 
Sorry to say you've lost your mind Ron. You're characterizing Trump driving his businesses into the dirt to the tune of nearly a billion dollars, then using that to avoid paying taxes as ''sometimes the tax code simply works out that way?"' Good God.

Not at all. Business taxes are more complicated than that. Losses over here offset profits over there, then you have depreciation complications, lease and interest expenses, whatever. Unfortunately the tax code rewards tax avoiders and punishes efficiency and profit.

I'm guessing if Trump broke any tax laws he'll be in prison for tax evasion after Hillary wins. If he didn't, and I suspect that's the case, he won't.

Trump has said that at his income level he gets audited every year.
 
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