All religion is based on man's doctrines...

[Elfiero]

You're saying what I've been saying all along...that any ideology, religion or not can be misused by those who seek power. Ask Vis if atheism is a "religion", most atheists will swear it is not. It's the absence of religion.

England can be seen as statism because Henry VIII did not want the Catholic church to be more powerful than the monarchy.. so he created his own religion. Yes, technically it's religion vs. religion but I hardly think he was motivated by religious beliefs to do what he did. He was motivated by power and his own self-interest.

I don't think there's any question though that one reason powerful dictators have historically tried to abolish religion, is that religion endows people with a sense of individual inherent value and rights that come from a higher authority, and that cannot naturally or morally be superseded by men. There are references to this concept in our Declaration of Independence. It's disingenuous to pretend that religion or belief in a higher power has not been instrumental in developing the concepts of individual rights and liberty.

Why would anyone need to swear to something that is painfully apparent to everyone who understands logic?

Again you guys are baffling to me....Here let me help you with a simple analogy:

If you DON"T collect stamps is that a hobby?

 

[CharlesDavenport]

Why would anyone need to swear to something that is painfully apparent to everyone who understands logic?

Again you guys are baffling to me....Here let me help you with a simple analogy:

If you DON"T collect stamps is that a hobby?

Yes, it is still a hobby even if you don't collect stamps.

 

[oneforthebus]

Why would anyone need to swear to something that is painfully apparent to everyone who understands logic?

Again you guys are baffling to me....Here let me help you with a simple analogy:

If you DON"T collect stamps is that a hobby?

As we were discussing earlier, religious persecution isn't always at the hands of the religious. Slu was saying atheism became a religion of sorts, so he still considers that religion vs. religion. So thank you, Elfie, for helping me make my point that religion isn't the only ideology that can be corrupted. Plenty of atrocities have been committed in the name of abolishing religion.