any of us could have written this article

[diver]

Of the 3 candidates, Tomlin was the guy I hoped they hired, but it's become painfully obvious that Tomlin is to stubborn and things have to be his way, there's lack of adjustments, lack of accountability, and hell just plain lack of game planning.

See, none of that we can be absolutely sure of. What I do know is they are losing. They don't have the players overall that can compete with the best teams, and he was instrumental in putting the team together. They put a rookie at center who only played 4 games there in college, and a rook at LT with a 39 year old QB. That's just a little, but all of that I can SEE.

I have no idea about his game plans, adjustments of lack of accountability. I am not in that room.

 

[diver]

And for me what I SEE is enough to fire him.

 

[Coryea]

See, none of that we can be absolutely sure of. What I do know is they are losing. They don't have the players overall that can compete with the best teams, and he was instrumental in putting the team together. They put a rookie at center who only played 4 games there in college, and a rook at LT with a 39 year old QB. That's just a little, but all of that I can SEE.

I have no idea about his game plans, adjustments of lack of accountability. I am not in that room.

I think it's a horrible look when the head coach says game plans aren't that relevant and that it's lack of execution, he has said this multiple times, that's lack of accountability on his part. The Buffalo game I've referenced 100 times, McDermott going into halftime winning saying they have alot of adjustments to make. Tomlin goes into halftime blaming execution and saying they don't need to make any adjustments. Buffalo came out with a totally different scheme in the second half while we never made any adjustments.
Or the Jax playoff game, 4th and 1. Jacksonville is in a goal line defense, all 11 guys at the LOS, he calls for a toss 7 yards behind the LOS to the short side of the field, that's just dumb playcalling there against an extremely fast defense.
I don't think anyone can defense his time management.
The constant ILB's trying to cover WR's.
All that is stuff that we can see

 

[steelhurt]

If you haven’t created the fact, prove it. Post the link or record that documents what you say is fact that “Tomlin has final say on personnel matter”. You won’t because there is none. Dale Lolley answered a Q&A session about this topic just a couple days ago. Colbert and Tomlin’s relationship regarding player decisions is exactly the same as it was with Colbert and Cowher. With Dan/Art2 being part of the decisions. So it’s your opinion. which I’ve already commented is perfectly fine. The whole purpose for this board. Some people will agree to disagree. To get defensive about your opinion is your problem, not mine.

As for your exclamation on me being a “right (rights?)“ fighter…WTH? What rights am I fighting? I just asked for a link to the resource you say is fact. Your opinions are yours, but to say Art2 “doesn't know anything near as to what his father or grandfather knew…” is ludicrous, as is that Art2 relies on his GM and HC to make final decisions, like he has no control. Completely ignorant reasoning. He’s the owner, yes majority owner at that and makes the final decision as he signs the checks. Any minority owner has no, (NONE) input over organization operations. Art2 grandfather, definitely did not know how to run the franchise as a winning one or his history behind it would have been different. Dan Rooney along with Noll turned the franchise into a successful one. Dan ran the show? Art2 took over all organizational matters from Dan in 2003. Sure, he discussed things with his father, as he was Emeritus, but Art2 “ran the show”. In fact Art2 was running things pretty smoothly when his father lived in Ireland as the appointed US Ambassador from 2009 through 2012. Art2 “has to sign off”….LOL, listen to that in your head. A owner that has to sign off to someone he hired. Your statements are your opinions, plain and simple. I agree to disagree with them as you can disagree with any opinion I or anyone else has. But when you inflect factual Into yours, you should have the resource to back it up.

Again and for the last time its not my opinion that Tomlin has in recent years had the final approval on player personnel. I know how you think it works and you go ahead and keep believing it. Tomlin has much more power and decision making than you may imagine, trust me.
Right fighter you moron the meaning is that someone who always has to be right and will fight to the end to prove he or she is right.

 

[diver]

I think it's a horrible look when the head coach says game plans aren't that relevant and that it's lack of execution, he has said this multiple times, that's lack of accountability on his part. The Buffalo game I've referenced 100 times, McDermott going into halftime winning saying they have alot of adjustments to make. Tomlin goes into halftime blaming execution and saying they don't need to make any adjustments. Buffalo came out with a totally different scheme in the second half while we never made any adjustments.
Or the Jax playoff game, 4th and 1. Jacksonville is in a goal line defense, all 11 guys at the LOS, he calls for a toss 7 yards behind the LOS to the short side of the field, that's just dumb playcalling there against an extremely fast defense.
I don't think anyone can defense his time management.
The constant ILB's trying to cover WR's.
All that is stuff that we can see

I don't listen to what coaches say to a reporter grabbing them coming out of a half. Any of them. If they could they'd probably rather blabber something about the other side of the moon.

And more often than not it is execution. I've never been a fan of the adjustments argument because again, we have all played sports. If we are honest, a lot of times if we played better it was just that, we played better. I am not disagreeing with you about the Buffalo game I hope you know. I am just pointing out I think the adjustments thing is used too much overall.

But certainly those things you state are specific, seeable things. And that's all I'm saying...we should leave it at that.

 

[diver]

And in the game Sunday, after the first quarter, whatever the game plan they cobbled together was irrelevant. He wasn't lying. The problem is why was it irrelevant, and he should have to answer for that.

 

[steelhurt]

Ok, you don’t hate Tomlin as a person, but you definitely don’t like him or is completely against him coaching the franchise. To say he’s failed from 2011 through 2021….so have 22 other clubs in that same span. In fact of the seven winning coaches, one is a three time winner in that timeframe and is a documented cheater. During that that period he had opportunities much more than not. More so than most other coaches besides the cheater.

I don’t look through foggy lenses, I have criticisms towards Tomlin just as much as I did towards Cowher. But I know throwing the baby out with the bath water mentality rarely fixes anything unless you start with a different mindset. Not unlike what Dan Rooney did in 68-69. Yes I disagree with you, respectful so, in regards to the HC situation. I don’t disagree changes are needed, OC in particularly. I didn’t like the hire to begin with, but I don’t pretend I can make decisions better than the professional.

Are you someone that does not comprehend what other are trying to communicate to you. I do not hate nor do I dislike the man personally since I've never had the opportunity of making his acquaintance. I was a true supporter of Tomlin when he got to the organization and liked what I first saw but my opinion of him has waivered within the last 11 seasons and for good cause. No you are correct when you say I don't want him coaching the Pittsburgh Steelers football team for a number of reasons one of which his message has grown stale. Its the same old same old whether if its with hos coordinators or position coaches. They are for the most part yes men that it does not appear to me that they would ever challenge him. Jeez, look at his DC for damn sake! Butler is not running the defense Tomlin is. Tomlin is stubborn, arrogant and will continue forcing things to go his way and the owner continues to allow it. This team needs a hard reset and a different direction from the mediocrity that it has been accustomed to for several years. We will never reach a SB or for that matter an AFC championship game with him running the show. And it has nothing to do with me not liking him but only with how he manages this football team.

 

[wig]

Lol..."Field goal Bill" they liked to call him. Now in revisionist history mode they talk of him like he's the second coming of Vince Lombardi... hilarious

You actually make a good point. Many of us were frustrated with Cowher toward the end because we believed he was simply too conservative, particularly in the playoffs. Watching the team get to the AFCC game over and over but never quite get over the hump was difficult. Watching the Steelers fall to the Cowboys just when they seemed to be in position to take control of the game was harder still.

But, hindsight tends to put people in a position to view the past more holistically. We can now see that Cowher did something regularly that Tomlin has never demonstrated the ability to do whatsoever. He developed players, adapted to the teams he had and built fundamentally sound teams from the bottom up. It's true, Cowher was always conservative, but he was also always competitive. Something Mike Tomlin has never been consistently.

 

[wig]

Our frustration with Tomlin lies fundamentally in his inability to build a team. He has demonstrated time and time again that he cannot build a balanced, foundationally sound team.

The only time he ever managed to field a respectable defense was due only to the fact that he had what? 9 1st rounders on the field? He didn't build a defense, he just slapped a bunch of stars together and hoped they'd out-talent the other team. That worked for the better part of a season, but you can't maintain that talent level on a team and even if you do, you can't maintain their level of play if you don't find a way to best utilize all their skills. Tomlin doesn't do that. He never has.

Thus, even when he HAS top tier talent on one side of the ball or the other, he constantly fails because he doesn't know how to maximize their production and for whatever reason he is either incapable or unwilling to hire coordinators who CAN maximize the players production.

The fact that he has a DC who doesn't even have a playsheet, the fact that Tomlin doesn't have a playsheet tells you they have no ******* idea what they're doing on defense. They are literally either simply making **** up as they go, or calling defenses from a very limited set of base plays and assuming T.J., Cam and Minkah will make something amazeballs happen.

It's ridiculous.

 

[Coryea]

I don't listen to what coaches say to a reporter grabbing them coming out of a half. Any of them. If they could they'd probably rather blabber something about the other side of the moon.

And more often than not it is execution. I've never been a fan of the adjustments argument because again, we have all played sports. If we are honest, a lot of times if we played better it was just that, we played better. I am not disagreeing with you about the Buffalo game I hope you know. I am just pointing out I think the adjustments thing is used too much overall.

But certainly those things you state are specific, seeable things. And that's all I'm saying...we should leave it at that.

I've given him the benefit of the doubt, but he has a losing playoff record and now we have the amazing record of giving up more points in 4 consecutive playoff games than any other team in NFL history. And haven't won a playoff game in 5 seasons, we havent done that since the last 60's early 70's, that's all I need to see.

 

[wig]

A good example of a fundamentally unsound defensive gameplay strategy? Tomlin's hybrid Tampa 2 defense is built, among other things, on the concept that a middle linebacker must cover a WR in certain situations.

This isn't something the other team even NEEDS to plan for, as it is a foundational aspect of Tomlin's defense. a WR WILL find himself in 1v1 against one of our middle linebackers. This is not a matchup you can realistically expect the linebacker to win. And when teams begin actually gameplanning to exploit this aspect of Tomlin's base defensive strategy, it just gets ugly.

And you know what the dumbest ******* thing is? The offenses Tomlin seems to endorse often appear that they are operating on the principle assumption that OTHER teams will be as dumb and fundamentally unsound as the Steelers. It's as if the Steelers EXPECT other teams to put up 2 down linemen on 3rd and short, or they EXPECT the other team's middle linebacker to go single coverage against Diontae.

When that doesn't happen? Execution. That ******* middle linebacker didn't keep up with Keenan McCardell and here we are. If he just ran a 4.25 the gameplan would have WORKED Dammit!

And if they hadn't put 2 linebackers and a safety dead in the middle of the field, our WR would have had room to make a catch and get some yards after catch. But we don't let THEM dictate what we do. We simply need Diontae to execute his juke-stick better and fake out all three of those guy so we can make a play. Execute Dammit!

 

[Coryea]

You actually make a good point. Many of us were frustrated with Cowher toward the end because we believed he was simply too conservative, particularly in the playoffs. Watching the team get to the AFCC game over and over but never quite get over the hump was difficult. Watching the Steelers fall to the Cowboys just when they seemed to be in position to take control of the game was harder still.

But, hindsight tends to put people in a position to view the past more holistically. We can now see that Cowher did something regularly that Tomlin has never demonstrated the ability to do whatsoever. He developed players, adapted to the teams he had and built fundamentally sound teams from the bottom up. It's true, Cowher was always conservative, but he was also always competitive. Something Mike Tomlin has never been consistently.

Actually the lost to the Chargers in 1994 was us being aggressive, Neil threw the ball 52 times that game, yet we lead most of the game, our DB got beat one on one because we were blitzing with the lead, that's not being conservative.
The 2001 AFCCG, Kordell threw the ball 28 times in the first half to only 8 runs by Bettis because NE was selling out to stop the run, again we were being aggressive and going against the grain. Exactly what we did on our 2005 Super Bowl run, the difference was we had a QB that could make clutch throws.

 

[Badcat]

Sorry Diver, but I disagree with your opinion on the adjustments. I played HS football for a small AA school in District 6, we were always one of the top teams in the district during the 1980's and we Made adjustments during the game as well as at halftime. A lot of us played both ways due to not having a lot of players on the team. I remember being subbed in and out to explain to the coaches what was going on, on the field, and the coaches would draw up the adjustments and I'd have to go back in and explain it to the rest of the guys. Half time in the locker room was bathroom break, hydration, and quick breakout sessions to adjust schemes. If a small *** farm school in the middle of nowhere is doing this, you'd be damn sure an NFL team should be doing this. Tomlin is either being flippant to sideline reporters or he's a stubborn, arrogant asshat who sticks to a weekly game plan come Hell or high water. I'm leaning towards the later based on what I've seen over the decade.

 

[Coryea]

Sorry Diver, but I disagree with your opinion on the adjustments. I played HS football for a small AA school in District 6, we were always one of the top teams in the district during the 1980's and we Made adjustments during the game as well as at halftime. A lot of us played both ways due to not having a lot of players on the team. I remember being subbed in and out to explain to the coaches what was going on, on the field, and the coaches would draw up the adjustments and I'd have to go back in and explain it to the rest of the guys. Half time in the locker room was bathroom break, hydration, and quick breakout sessions to adjust schemes. If a small *** farm school in the middle of nowhere is doing this, you'd be damn sure an NFL team should be doing this. Tomlin is either being flippant to sideline reporters or he's a stubborn, arrogant asshat who sticks to a weekly game plan come Hell or high water. I'm leaning towards the later based on what I've seen over the decade.

I know this is a stretch to compare, but hell I coach Single A high school girls soccer and I'm making adjustments every single game, pretty much all game, especially if it's a close match. You go into every game with a plan, but if that plan isn't working or the opponent isn't doing what you planned on them doing, you have to make adjustments, I'm assuming that's across the board no matter what sport or level you're coaching.

 

[diver]

Sorry Diver, but I disagree with your opinion on the adjustments. I played HS football for a small AA school in District 6, we were always one of the top teams in the district during the 1980's and we Made adjustments during the game as well as at halftime. A lot of us played both ways due to not having a lot of players on the team. I remember being subbed in and out to explain to the coaches what was going on, on the field, and the coaches would draw up the adjustments and I'd have to go back in and explain it to the rest of the guys. Half time in the locker room was bathroom break, hydration, and quick breakout sessions to adjust schemes. If a small *** farm school in the middle of nowhere is doing this, you'd be damn sure an NFL team should be doing this. Tomlin is either being flippant to sideline reporters or he's a stubborn, arrogant asshat who sticks to a weekly game plan come Hell or high water. I'm leaning towards the later based on what I've seen over the decade.

I know this is a stretch to compare, but hell I coach Single A high school girls soccer and I'm making adjustments every single game, pretty much all game, especially if it's a close match. You go into every game with a plan, but if that plan isn't working or the opponent isn't doing what you planned on them doing, you have to make adjustments, I'm assuming that's across the board no matter what sport or level you're coaching.

Look, I agree adjustments are important. I had coaches as well that adjusted, when I coached I adjusted.

But the best coach I ever had would say, and I found myself saying the same thing, "If we don't play better all these adjustments won't matter." The two go hand in hand. And I think it is Tomlin being more flippant to sideline reporters than anything.

Again, these are not defenses of Tomlin or me thinking he should stay. I think it is time to move on. But I think the adjustments argument is weak mainly because we are not in the locker room, we are just speculating.

 

[Djfan]

Our frustration with Tomlin lies fundamentally in his inability to build a team. He has demonstrated time and time again that he cannot build a balanced, foundationally sound team.

The only time he ever managed to field a respectable defense was due only to the fact that he had what? 9 1st rounders on the field? He didn't build a defense, he just slapped a bunch of stars together and hoped they'd out-talent the other team. That worked for the better part of a season, but you can't maintain that talent level on a team and even if you do, you can't maintain their level of play if you don't find a way to best utilize all their skills. Tomlin doesn't do that. He never has.

Thus, even when he HAS top tier talent on one side of the ball or the other, he constantly fails because he doesn't know how to maximize their production and for whatever reason he is either incapable or unwilling to hire coordinators who CAN maximize the players production.

The fact that he has a DC who doesn't even have a playsheet, the fact that Tomlin doesn't have a playsheet tells you they have no ******* idea what they're doing on defense. They are literally either simply making **** up as they go, or calling defenses from a very limited set of base plays and assuming T.J., Cam and Minkah will make something amazeballs happen.

It's ridiculous.

At the Hall of Fame game, Tomlin let Cowher call a defense. Cowher later said that he was surprised that it was still the same defense he had when he was there.

 

[diver]

At the Hall of Fame game, Tomlin let Cowher call a defense. Cowher later said that he was surprised that it was still the same defense he had when he was there.

Yeah, I remember that. I have always thought the defense hasn't changed much, and I know it was preseason, but that was disconcerting.

 

[Confluence]

Yesterday a browns player got arrested for running naked down the street… playoff win or not that franchise will always be a hundred times the embarrassment of any other franchise

At least the river hasn't caught on fire for a few years now.....

 

[stuntmanmike]

He stopped short of calling for Tomlin's job. He seemed to want to, but bowed to the reality and Tomlin will never be fired. But, why now? They squandered Ben's career. It's years late.

I could have written this article. You could have.

Pittsburgh Steelers, Penguins, Pirates News, Live Coverage | DK Pittsburgh Sports

Pittsburgh Steelers, Penguins, Pirates News, Live Coverage | DK Pittsburgh Sports

dkpittsburghsports.com

Yep

 

[wig]

Yeah, I remember that. I have always thought the defense hasn't changed much, and I know it was preseason, but that was disconcerting.

See, and I CAN be reasonable. If the defense hasn't changed in over 15 years, maybe Tomlin and Butler DON'T need playsheets...

 

[stuntmanmike]

Saying everything we’ve been saying on here for years! the chiefs are just the latest… how about getting clubbed by the cheatroits during The Brady years just embarrassing to get clubbed by them year in tear out and the coaching staff standing there with thumb in their arse… hard to be a Steeler fan anymore

 

[stuntmanmike]

I think most Steelers can live Joe tomlin coaching the team just bring in competent coordinators! Thats all we ask! When was last time another team asked the Steelers for permission to talk to a coach for a HC position? That says it all! Rooney Jr needs to step in here he keeps popping off about running the ball for Christ’s sakes take charge!

 

[steelhurt]

See, none of that we can be absolutely sure of. What I do know is they are losing. They don't have the players overall that can compete with the best teams, and he was instrumental in putting the team together. They put a rookie at center who only played 4 games there in college, and a rook at LT with a 39 year old QB. That's just a little, but all of that I can SEE.

I have no idea about his game plans, adjustments of lack of accountability. I am not in that room.

Its obvious! He's even said as much as not making adjustments at halftime. And I quote, "we don't make adjustments, players have to execute better". More recently, "the game plan is irrelevant we need to execute". As for lack of accountability its all over the place to be seen.

 

[Ike Kelly]

Again and for the last time its not my opinion that Tomlin has in recent years had the final approval on player personnel. I know how you think it works and you go ahead and keep believing it. Tomlin has much more power and decision making than you may imagine, trust me.
Right fighter you moron the meaning is that someone who always has to be right and will fight to the end to prove he or she is right.

If you knew how it works, then your flame war on this thread would‘ve stopped after your first reply. You state “it is not your opinion that Tomlin (now clarified to recent years) has had final approval on player personnel“. Or “in fact he has great input and final approval of all player personnel and don’t give a **** what you think….” Ok where is the fact? Who stated this? Where is the link to the person who interviewed and documented Tomlin has final approval of all player personnel. If it’s one of the beat writers name him. Otherwise, I wouldn't trust what you state as fact.

And calling me a moron when you can’t articulate what you are trying to say? Whose fault is that? In all my life, I’ve never heard “Right fighter” Why not say “some who always has to be right?, or in short form disputative, or argumentative, combative. In any case I am not arguing who is right, I only said if it’s fact, cite the source or provide the link. If you are under a gag order to release then say so. Otherwise, you’ve only voiced your opinion, just like Tom, Diver and Wig have theirs.

Are you someone that does not comprehend what other are trying to communicate to you. I do not hate nor do I dislike the man personally since I've never had the opportunity of making his acquaintance. I was a true supporter of Tomlin when he got to the organization and liked what I first saw but my opinion of him has waivered within the last 11 seasons and for good cause. No you are correct when you say I don't want him coaching the Pittsburgh Steelers football team for a number of reasons one of which his message has grown stale. Its the same old same old whether if its with hos coordinators or position coaches. They are for the most part yes men that it does not appear to me that they would ever challenge him. Jeez, look at his DC for damn sake! Butler is not running the defense Tomlin is. Tomlin is stubborn, arrogant and will continue forcing things to go his way and the owner continues to allow it. This team needs a hard reset and a different direction from the mediocrity that it has been accustomed to for several years. We will never reach a SB or for that matter an AFC championship game with him running the show. And it has nothing to do with me not liking him but only with how he manages this football team.

I can comprehend quite well, and normally don’t have problems with anyone on the board. Well, Coach is the exception, but he only does his thing to get attention. This last post again all opinions, which some I agree with. Keith Butler was a coach well before Tomlin even was considered HC. Since 2003, he learned the Dick LeBeau defense as LB coach with all those great LBs? Remember them? He waited patiently for the DC and it is my opinion, (I don’t HAVE PROOF…see how it works), but it’s rumored Mr. Rooney promised him he would replace Coach LeBeau when he retired or left. LeBeau didn’t want to retire after the 2014, and coach Buts was getting interests from other clubs for DC roles. LeBeau wasn’t offered a contract for 2015 as Tomlin and Art2 didn’t want to lose someone who knew the scheme for over a dozen years.

I don’t want to have back and forth with you, you’ve been on the board for a while, your comments and responses typically are well opinionated which is great for Justin’s board. You mentioned something on a factual basis that hasnt been documented that I’ve seen, nor does it follow the hierarchy that’s been in place for over 50 years. I was only asking for a link which documented your statement. That’s it. Creating this dramatic thread on how you are being affronted by a “Right fighter” is your imagination. I only wanted to see the fact as documented per your statement.

 

[diver]

Its obvious! He's even said as much as not making adjustments at halftime. And I quote, "we don't make adjustments, players have to execute better". More recently, "the game plan is irrelevant we need to execute". As for lack of accountability its all over the place to be seen.

You (Tomlin). The wife (reporter) asks you if you like the dress she is wearing. You say "Oh, yeah!" Just to shut her up so you can move on to other things.

I just believe that basically describes Tomlin with the media.

Again, dammit, this doesn't mean I think Tomlin should stay as coach. The results is what a look at. That's enough. I will not speculate as to what got those results. That is for the people who really know. I am not there.

Like "game plans are irrelevant." Some of you got all bunched up over that. it was true! The game plan was irrelevant against the Chiefs. They are clearly superior in talent and coaching. Why is that? That is what Tomlin needs to answer. How would have any of us changed the gameplan to beat the Chiefs with the team as presently constituted?