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BIG UGLIES, BIG UGLIES, BIG UGLIES!!!!!!

I agree slash but if that OC is there 2nd or 3rd, you take him.


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Sure. You could move Cole over true. Just not sure Cole is a big enough needed upgrade compared to LG and LT. And if a C is drafted are they still upgrading WR,NT, backup OLBer/ILBer/CB/LT?

I am always for BPA of course if a C is clearly the upgrade in that round you nab him. Or trade down if feasible.
 
Sure. You could move Cole over true. Just not sure Cole is a big enough needed upgrade compared to LG and LT. And if a C is drafted are they still upgrading WR,NT, backup OLBer/ILBer/CB/LT?

I am always for BPA of course if a C is clearly the upgrade in that round you nab him. Or trade down if feasible.

I was looking away from. LG as if a Quality LT is obtained, then I was thinking Dan Moore to LG hoping he will be more successful there.

I most definitely agree on BPA, but also hope that BPA can fill a void.


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I may be in the minority, but I like Dan Moore. The kid has hung in there, with very little help from the offensive play calling and the like. There is certainly a consensus here on how bad the OC is. Can the players on offense be accurately judged due to the lousy coaching?

I know the numbers are the same, but Moore reminds me a bit of John Jackson. It took Jackson some time to settle in, but then he became a pretty damn good LT. Jackson's career took off when they brought in Cowher and an OC (Earhardt) who knew what the hell he was doing. Perhaps the same can happen for Moore.
Moore was a project with upside the day he was drafted. The Steelers needed a bridge LT and to have Moore on the bench year 1, 6th OL for short yardage in year 2 before taking over as starter in year 3. FWIW, PFF has Moore 59/80, Dotson 33/86, Cole 15/38, Daniels 24/86, and Okorafor 58/80.
 
We need them on both sides of the ball. Our top 2 needs. Nothing else matters at this point. Start there and work your way out.
Meh....we easily could bring in a few FAs and fix some issues. We do need to address the trenches though.
 
Moore was a project with upside the day he was drafted. The Steelers needed a bridge LT and to have Moore on the bench year 1, 6th OL for short yardage in year 2 before taking over as starter in year 3. FWIW, PFF has Moore 59/80, Dotson 33/86, Cole 15/38, Daniels 24/86, and Okorafor 58/80.
what do those numbers mean?
 
Those are the position rankings. Basically, the tackles are not good based on PFF's grading (for however you value that system).
 
I may be in the minority, but I like Dan Moore. The kid has hung in there, with very little help from the offensive play calling and the like. There is certainly a consensus here on how bad the OC is. Can the players on offense be accurately judged due to the lousy coaching?

I know the numbers are the same, but Moore reminds me a bit of John Jackson. It took Jackson some time to settle in, but then he became a pretty damn good LT. Jackson's career took off when they brought in Cowher and an OC (Earhardt) who knew what the hell he was doing. Perhaps the same can happen for Moore.
Whoa! John Jackson? Let's put his *** on the bench and hope he develops into a Marvel Smith, Oliver Ross, Kelvin Beachum or Max Starks first. Right now he is Jamaine Stephens lumbering out on the field. Seriously, Jackson was 6'6, 310 lbs and a man among men in his time. Big, strong, and athletic as hell. Moore is a slow lard-*** compared to him.
 
Whoa! John Jackson? Let's put his *** on the bench and hope he develops into a Marvel Smith, Oliver Ross, Kelvin Beachum or Max Starks first. Right now he is Jamaine Stephens lumbering out on the field. Seriously, Jackson was 6'6, 310 lbs and a man among men in his time. Big, strong, and athletic as hell. Moore is a slow lard-*** compared to him.
That is what Jackson became. Try to remember his first number of years. He was pretty average. He was a late round pick out of Kentucky and took a little time to develop. I see some similarities. What I like about Moore is he was thrown into a difficult situation and has hung in there. The lousy OC and play calling haven't exactly helped. One thing that perplexes me about some of you is how you will say the coaching is so bad and then judge the players. Shouldn't some of the judgement be withheld until the coaching improves? In John Jackson's case, Noll retired and Joe Walton went out the door with him. Cowher and Earhardt come in and 7-9 players became 11-5 players.

I'm not disparaging Noll either. What a great coach. He just seemed to make some questionable hires late in his career.
 
I may be in the minority, but I like Dan Moore. The kid has hung in there, with very little help from the offensive play calling and the like. There is certainly a consensus here on how bad the OC is. Can the players on offense be accurately judged due to the lousy coaching?

I know the numbers are the same, but Moore reminds me a bit of John Jackson. It took Jackson some time to settle in, but then he became a pretty damn good LT. Jackson's career took off when they brought in Cowher and an OC (Earhardt) who knew what the hell he was doing. Perhaps the same can happen for Moore.
Moore is still a better LT in year 2 than Chuks was in year 4. Chuks could never figure out he needed to keep his arms extended even though they taught it to him every year. So, there is that. He's still an improvement over Chuks.
 
Moore is still a better LT in year 2 than Chuks was in year 4. Chuks could never figure out he needed to keep his arms extended even though they taught it to him every year. So, there is that. He's still an improvement over Chuks.

A small pile being better than a big pile, either way both are ****.

We need HUGE upgrade at LT. Might get value if Moore is moved into guard if he can make that transitional success.

”Trench Warfare” investment is needed.


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A small pile being better than a big pile, either way both are ****.

We need HUGE upgrade at LT. Might get value if Moore is moved into guard if he can make that transitional success.

”Trench Warfare” investment is needed.


Salute the nation
I'm all for adding talent. The OL needs it badly. I just think Moore may end up being a good player at LT. You also have no idea if a guy who has played nothing but tackle can be a guard. If you think Moore is so bad at LT what makes you project him as a good guard? And lastly, if the coaching is so damn bad, which we all agree on, how can we accurately judge the players? I also believe you get an OC that knows what the heck he is doing in there, the line will look a lot better.
 
I'm all for adding talent. The OL needs it badly. I just think Moore may end up being a good player at LT. You also have no idea if a guy who has played nothing but tackle can be a guard. If you think Moore is so bad at LT what makes you project him as a good guard? And lastly, if the coaching is so damn bad, which we all agree on, how can we accurately judge the players? I also believe you get an OC that knows what the heck he is doing in there, the line will look a lot better.
The projections at Guard is because he struggles with speed to the outside, his kick is slow and puts him at a bad situation. Probably in a phone booth he would do a lot better without having to worry with chasing rushers
 
The projections at Guard is because he struggles with speed to the outside, his kick is slow and puts him at a bad situation. Probably in a phone booth he would do a lot better without having to worry with chasing rushers
So did John Jackson. A lot of LTs struggle with the speed and athleticism of pass rushers. So Earhardt handled that issue by a willingness to run the ball on 3 and 8, for example, specifically a draw play. That's what good OCs do. I still remember Bruce Smith a number of times sailing right on by as Jackson just gave him a little shove around, as Foster or Hoge or Bettis would run right up through the hole created. That'll slow down a pass rush in a hurry.

Look, if a top LT is there, I am all for taking him. I just think Moore can be good out there, but I don't know it for sure of course. So I would be fine with taking one and let it play out. I do really believe though that if they get a better OC in there, guys who we are questioning may end up looking a lot better.
 
Nothing changes until there are major coaching changes. I have said this for a decade now. This is a piss poor coaching staff and does not have the teaching capacity. Just look at the wonderful MT coaching tree the last 10 years or so.
You could also prove this by looking back at who was here before during and after Munchak left. Once Munch got here the Line improved immediately. It also declined immediately after he left (and not cause we lost a lot of players between that time). Pretty much a proven hypothesis here.
 
A small pile being better than a big pile, either way both are ****.

We need HUGE upgrade at LT. Might get value if Moore is moved into guard if he can make that transitional success.

”Trench Warfare” investment is needed.


Salute the nation
I'm not sure if he's played G so it will be interesting to see how that plays out. He really can't be any worse than Dotson or Green, can he?
 
I may be in the minority, but I like Dan Moore. The kid has hung in there, with very little help from the offensive play calling and the like. There is certainly a consensus here on how bad the OC is. Can the players on offense be accurately judged due to the lousy coaching?

I know the numbers are the same, but Moore reminds me a bit of John Jackson. It took Jackson some time to settle in, but then he became a pretty damn good LT. Jackson's career took off when they brought in Cowher and an OC (Earhardt) who knew what the hell he was doing. Perhaps the same can happen for Moore.
Good comparison diver...

But are you sure the jersey number is not influencing your opinion?
 
So did John Jackson. A lot of LTs struggle with the speed and athleticism of pass rushers. So Earhardt handled that issue by a willingness to run the ball on 3 and 8, for example, specifically a draw play. That's what good OCs do. I still remember Bruce Smith a number of times sailing right on by as Jackson just gave him a little shove around, as Foster or Hoge or Bettis would run right up through the hole created. That'll slow down a pass rush in a hurry.

Look, if a top LT is there, I am all for taking him. I just think Moore can be good out there, but I don't know it for sure of course. So I would be fine with taking one and let it play out. I do really believe though that if they get a better OC in there, guys who we are questioning may end up looking a lot better.

I’m not doubting what you are saying and agree to an extent.

What must remain in focus is that under Coach Tomlin rule, we are NOT getting a TOP NOTCH OC who is left alone to call realistic play calling. Tomlin is too conservative in that regards. O’Canada is NOT going to suddenly call plays that will help the personal. It will take a philosophy change to get to that degree.

I was high on Moore as LT way back when he was drafted, today not so much. His transition to Guard would be an easier step for him in regards to his strength / weaknesses, in my opinion (less space to operate). There is no guarantee of DAN’s success but he is struggling at Tackle big time.

Unless coaching / philosophy / upgraded personal in the trenches, we will struggle indefinitely.



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Good comparison diver...

But are you sure the jersey number is not influencing your opinion?
Probably.:) I thought of that. Is it just the jersey number? But I am old enough to remember Jackson struggling some early, but really becoming a player once Cowher came in with Ron Earhardt.

The big thing for me is that I've been watching the Steelers since I was a kid in the 70s and they have a team right now that I have no joy in watching. That happened in the mid 80s as well. Maybe we should count ourselves blessed that it hasn't been that much over the years. Anyway, what makes it so hard is the offense makes no damn sense to me. It's terrible. Logic says if they can get even a competent OC and the head coach lets him the hell alone, the players will look better just because of that. I'm not sure how you accurately assess players with this offense right now.
 
Steelers need to do well in the pre-draft period to set-up the draft. Promote Flores to DC, bring in new OC. Resign Sutton and Edmonds and sign at least 2
significant free agents. I'd target Tremaine Edmunds as the first one.
 
Probably. :) I thought of that. Is it just the jersey number? But I am old enough to remember Jackson struggling some early, but really becoming a player once Cowher came in with Ron Earhardt.

IIRC, Wayne Gandy also struggled somewhat his 1st year w/the Steelers after signing as a FA from the Rams (I think it was Bettis, who had already been with the Steelers a couple of years, who helped "recruit" Gandy from his former team). Also, IIRC, he was a LT who was thrust into the RT slot after Strzelczyk suffered a knee injury. I think that's why Gandy played at a below-par level. But then he moved back to LT, and played better his final years with the Steelers before signing with NO. (someone correct me if my memory is void of the facts)

We had quite a successful string of LTs in that era: Jackson, Will Wolford, Gandy. *Sigh*.
 
Big UGLIES, Big UGLIES is NOT todays NFL....

You need a couple kick *** body guards & punishers, plus a top 10 QB & top quality playmakers....

I'm for 1 "Big Ugly", through free agency and 1 through the draft but you willl not win without an elite QB PERIOD....I like KP, but if Bryce Young is available (which I doubt) you need to grab that kid....He is special....

Bryce will be a game changer....We need a QB that puts the fear of God in the opposing DC's head...

Plus with 2 concussions with KP already in his young careeer durability is indeeed an issue

The game has changed and to think this is the 90's NFL is IMO pollyanic....

i find it amazing how across the league there are at least half with bad offfensive lines....

CAn anyone develop a decent O-line theses days? Cause They are a bunch of bad ones....
 
One thing that perplexes me about some of you is how you will say the coaching is so bad and then judge the players. Shouldn't some of the judgement be withheld until the coaching improves?

I think that applies 100% to Pickett, the WR's, and likely Najeh but not nearly as much to LT. Getting your *** whipped time after time after time after time on the same damn speed rush is not an OC issue; it is a LT issue.
 
I think that applies 100% to Pickett, the WR's, and likely Najeh but not nearly as much to LT. Getting your *** whipped time after time after time after time on the same damn speed rush is not an OC issue; it is a LT issue.
Maybe. Unless they are pretty confident they know what is coming. Multiple opponents have stated they knew what the Steelers were going to run. If you are pretty confident in what's coming, your get off is gonna be a lot quicker.

Look, I'm not opposed to a top LT if one is out there in FA or the draft. Is there one?
 
Maybe. Unless they are pretty confident they know what is coming. Multiple opponents have stated they knew what the Steelers were going to run. If you are pretty confident in what's coming, your get off is gonna be a lot quicker.

Look, I'm not opposed to a top LT if one is out there in FA or the draft. Is there one?

This draft is interesting since there really is not a top-tier, elite LT prospect. No Evan Neal or Penei Sewell this draft. That sounds bad, but in fact it is actually good news since guys like that are never going to drop to 10 or 12 or wherever the Steelers wind up.

The best LT is probably Paris Johnson from Ohio State but he's not likely to drop to 10 or 12 or whatever. Possible, but not likely. If he drops to 10 or 12 or whatever, scoop him up. Peter Skoronski from Northwestern is the 2nd best IMO. Great balance, feet, but not a huge guy. He goes pretty high just because he's the best prospect and is athletic but could well be there at 12 or 10 or whatever. Some good targets at 33 - Broderick Jones of Ga and Anton Harrison of Oklahoma. I think one of them is going to be there at 33.

That means the Steelers can get a top-level CB (Porter Jr.) at 10 or whatever, a very good LT at 33, and a massive DT (Ika or Mazi Smith) at 44. That would be the perfect start to the draft. Get OLBer Jack Campbell at 76 and throw a party.
 
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