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But if we cut emmisions the Chinese won't..... but...

Can you get your head around the idea that a lot of the world has a vested financial interest in this aside from "saving the planet"? That somehow the solutions to this apocalyptic crisis all involve shifting wealth and resources from wealthy countries to less wealthy ones, and from businesses to governments, without any real evidence that it's going to solve the crisis or even affect it in any significant way? And that some of the biggest offenders are supposed to be exempt from the solutions for some reason?

The polluters have the direct financial interest. The climate scientists don't. The data is the data. You could look at it if you wanted to know the truth, but you've taken a position and only search for BS on your side.
 
The polluters have the direct financial interest. The climate scientists don't. The data is the data. You could look at it if you wanted to know the truth, but you've taken a position and only search for BS on your side.

Nope.

The 97% figure has been roundly disputed by the way, but you keep trotting it out like it's a fact.

I don't deny global warming exists. My skepticism is about the causes, how much each of many varying factors contributes, the impact, and the effectiveness of the proposed solutions. There is no 97% consensus on any of that. If you don't think there's any interest beyond altruism in cooking up national and global carbon trading schemes you just really don't understand what they are about. If this was such an urgent crisis, we would be fighting for emissions to be sharply curbed globally...we wouldn't be trying to come up with ways that government can use this crisis to collect revenue and/or pick economic winners and losers.
 
If this was such an urgent crisis, we would be fighting for emissions to be sharply curbed globally...

Huh? It seems like that is exactly what some politicians, scientist, businesses and citizens are trying to do.
 
Huh? It seems like that is exactly what some politicians, scientist, businesses and citizens are trying to do.

All of the "solutions" involve shifting emissions around and taxing them. Why do you think that is?
 
global warming scientists from other countries meet to discuss their latest findings:
gwscientists.jpg
 
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ear...dmit-global-warming-forecasts-were-wrong.html

Top climate scientists admit global warming forecasts were wrong


A leaked draft of a report by the UN Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change is understood to concede that the computer predictions for global warming and the effects of carbon emissions have been proved to be inaccurate.

The report, to be published later this month, is a six year assessment which is seen as the gospel of climate science and is cited to justify fuel taxes and subsidies for renewable energy.

The “summary for policymakers” of the report, seen by the Mail on Sunday, states that the world is warming at a rate of 0.12C per decade since 1951, compared to a prediction of 0.13C per decade in their last assessment published in 2007.

Other admission in the latest document include that forecast computers may not have taken enough notice of natural variability in the climate, therefore exaggerating the effect of increased carbon emissions on world temperatures.

The governments which fund the IPCC have tabled 1,800 questions in relation to the report.
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One of the central issues is believed to be why the IPCC failed to account for the “pause” in global warming, which they admit that they did not predict in their computer models. Since 1997, world average temperatures have not shown any statistically significant increase.

The summary also shows that scientist have now discovered that between 950 and 1250 AD, before the Industrial Revolution, parts of the world were as warm for decades at a time as they are now.

Despite a 2012 draft stating that the world is at it’s warmest for 1,300 years, the latest document states: “'Surface temperature reconstructions show multi-decadal intervals during the Medieval Climate Anomaly (950-1250) that were in some regions as warm as in the late 20th Century.”

The 2007 report included predictions of a decline in Antarctic sea ice, but the latest document does not explain why this year it is at a record high.

The 2013 report states: “'Most models simulate a small decreasing trend in Antarctic sea ice extent, in contrast to the small increasing trend in observations ...

“There is low confidence in the scientific understanding of the small observed increase in Antarctic sea ice extent.'

The 2007 forecast for more intense hurricanes has also been ignored in the new document after this year was one of the quietest hurricane seasons in history.

One of the report's authors, Professor Myles Allen, the director of Oxford University's Climate Research Network, has said that people should not look to the IPCC for a “bible” on climate change.

Professor Allen, who admits “we need to look very carefully about what the IPCC does in future”, said that he could not comment on the report as it was still considered to be in its draft stages.

However, he added: “It is a complete fantasy to think that you can compile an infallible or approximately infallible report, that is just not how science works.

“It is not a bible, it is a scientific review, an assessment of the literature. Frankly both sides are seriously confused on how science works - the critics of the IPCC and the environmentalists who credit the IPCC as if it is the gospel."

Scientist were constantly revising their research to account for new data, he said.

Despite the uncertainties and contradictions, the IPCC insists that it is more confident than ever – 95 per cent certain - that global warming is mainly human’s fault.

Next week 40 of the 250 authors who contributed to the report and representatives of most of the 195 governments that fund the IPCC will hold a meeting in Stockholm to discuss the finding to discuss any issues ahead of the publication. The body has insisted that this is not a crisis meeting but a pre-planned discussion.
 
http://news.investors.com/ibd-edito...e-change-scare-tool-to-destroy-capitalism.htm

"This is the first time in the history of mankind that we are setting ourselves the task of intentionally, within a defined period of time, to change the economic development model that has been reigning for at least 150 years, since the Industrial Revolution," she said.
Referring to a new international treaty environmentalists hope will be adopted at the Paris climate change conference later this year, she added: "This is probably the most difficult task we have ever given ourselves, which is to intentionally transform the economic development model for the first time in human history."


Read More At Investor's Business Daily: http://news.investors.com/ibd-edito...-tool-to-destroy-capitalism.htm#ixzz3nK1lywmi
Follow us: @IBDinvestors on Twitter | InvestorsBusinessDaily on Facebook

(NZZ AM SONNTAG): The new thing about your proposal for a Global Deal is the stress on the importance of development policy for climate policy. Until now, many think of aid when they hear development policies.

(OTTMAR EDENHOFER, UN IPCC OFFICIAL): That will change immediately if global emission rights are distributed. If this happens, on a per capita basis, then Africa will be the big winner, and huge amounts of money will flow there. This will have enormous implications for development policy. And it will raise the question if these countries can deal responsibly with so much money at all.

(NZZ): That does not sound anymore like the climate policy that we know.

(EDENHOFER): Basically it's a big mistake to discuss climate policy separately from the major themes of globalization. The climate summit in Cancun at the end of the month is not a climate conference, but one of the largest economic conferences since the Second World War. Why? Because we have 11,000 gigatons of carbon in the coal reserves in the soil under our feet - and we must emit only 400 gigatons in the atmosphere if we want to keep the 2-degree target. 11 000 to 400 - there is no getting around the fact that most of the fossil reserves must remain in the soil.

(NZZ): De facto, this means an expropriation of the countries with natural resources. This leads to a very different development from that which has been triggered by development policy.

(EDENHOFER): First of all, developed countries have basically expropriated the atmosphere of the world community. But one must say clearly that we redistribute de facto the world's wealth by climate policy. Obviously, the owners of coal and oil will not be enthusiastic about this. One has to free oneself from the illusion that international climate policy is environmental policy. This has almost nothing to do with environmental policy anymore, with problems such as deforestation or the ozone hole.

For the record, Edenhofer was co-chair of the IPCC's Working Group III, and was a lead author of the IPCC's Fourth Assessment Report released in 2007 which controversially concluded, "Most of the observed increase in global average temperatures since the mid-20th century is very likely due to the observed increase in anthropogenic greenhouse gas concentrations."

As such, this man is a huge player in advancing this theory, and he has now made it quite clear - as folks on the realist side of this debate have been saying for years - that this is actually an international economic scheme designed to redistribute wealth.

Readers are encouraged to review the entire interview at GWPF or Google's slightly different translation.

- See more at: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-s...ds-wealth-climate-policy#sthash.L0nR45s2.dpuf
 
http://news.investors.com/ibd-edito...e-change-scare-tool-to-destroy-capitalism.htm

"This is the first time in the history of mankind that we are setting ourselves the task of intentionally, within a defined period of time, to change the economic development model that has been reigning for at least 150 years, since the Industrial Revolution," she said.
Referring to a new international treaty environmentalists hope will be adopted at the Paris climate change conference later this year, she added: "This is probably the most difficult task we have ever given ourselves, which is to intentionally transform the economic development model for the first time in human history."


Read More At Investor's Business Daily: http://news.investors.com/ibd-edito...-tool-to-destroy-capitalism.htm#ixzz3nK1lywmi
Follow us: @IBDinvestors on Twitter | InvestorsBusinessDaily on Facebook

(NZZ AM SONNTAG): The new thing about your proposal for a Global Deal is the stress on the importance of development policy for climate policy. Until now, many think of aid when they hear development policies.

(OTTMAR EDENHOFER, UN IPCC OFFICIAL): That will change immediately if global emission rights are distributed. If this happens, on a per capita basis, then Africa will be the big winner, and huge amounts of money will flow there. This will have enormous implications for development policy. And it will raise the question if these countries can deal responsibly with so much money at all.

(NZZ): That does not sound anymore like the climate policy that we know.

(EDENHOFER): Basically it's a big mistake to discuss climate policy separately from the major themes of globalization. The climate summit in Cancun at the end of the month is not a climate conference, but one of the largest economic conferences since the Second World War. Why? Because we have 11,000 gigatons of carbon in the coal reserves in the soil under our feet - and we must emit only 400 gigatons in the atmosphere if we want to keep the 2-degree target. 11 000 to 400 - there is no getting around the fact that most of the fossil reserves must remain in the soil.

(NZZ): De facto, this means an expropriation of the countries with natural resources. This leads to a very different development from that which has been triggered by development policy.

(EDENHOFER): First of all, developed countries have basically expropriated the atmosphere of the world community. But one must say clearly that we redistribute de facto the world's wealth by climate policy. Obviously, the owners of coal and oil will not be enthusiastic about this. One has to free oneself from the illusion that international climate policy is environmental policy. This has almost nothing to do with environmental policy anymore, with problems such as deforestation or the ozone hole.

For the record, Edenhofer was co-chair of the IPCC's Working Group III, and was a lead author of the IPCC's Fourth Assessment Report released in 2007 which controversially concluded, "Most of the observed increase in global average temperatures since the mid-20th century is very likely due to the observed increase in anthropogenic greenhouse gas concentrations."

As such, this man is a huge player in advancing this theory, and he has now made it quite clear - as folks on the realist side of this debate have been saying for years - that this is actually an international economic scheme designed to redistribute wealth.

Readers are encouraged to review the entire interview at GWPF or Google's slightly different translation.

- See more at: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-s...ds-wealth-climate-policy#sthash.L0nR45s2.dpuf

HyXH0YS.png


Look at Scotland's wind power, as one example. The created jobs and helped at the same time. We once had a mindset to lead in future tech. Fossil fuels are the horse and buggy. Clean tech means better jobs and if we invent it instead of leaving it to countries who aren't filled with idiot deniers in their legislatures, we will enjoy the new boon. Instead clean tech gets mocked by the right.
 
Look at Scotland's wind power, as one example. The created jobs and helped at the same time. We once had a mindset to lead in future tech. Fossil fuels are the horse and buggy. Clean tech means better jobs and if we invent it instead of leaving it to countries who aren't filled with idiot deniers in their legislatures, we will enjoy the new boon. Instead clean tech gets mocked by the right.

Who's opposed to wind power or clean energy? Not me. Clean energy is my husband's work and pays my family's bills (thanks Obama!). I'm opposed to crippling taxes and regs that haven't even been proven to solve the problem.
 
MJACPOs.jpg


I won't address the racists and the morons that have no arguments just insults.

But...but what about ....

Gators In The Yard
North American alligators require a certain temperature range for survival and reproduction, traditionally limiting them to the southern U.S. But warming temperatures could open new turf to gators with more sightings farther north. I jus can't wrap my head around the Canadian gator thing, sorry.

Wine To Go?
Along with other agricultural impacts, climate change may have a dramatic effect on the world's most famous winemaking regions in coming decades. Areas suitable for grape cultivation may shrink, and temperature changes may impact the signature taste of wines from certain regions. Notice the little sneaky "may" ? Don't wanna over commit.

Home Sweet Home
Thanks to climate change, low-lying island nations may have to evacuate, and sooner than previously expected. Melting of the Greenland and west Antarctic ice sheets has been underestimated, scientists say, and populations in countries like the Maldives, Kiribati, Tuvalu and others may need to move within a decade....wait, what....I think I heard this before, like a century ago ?

The Color-Changing Bears
As Arctic ice melts and polar bears see more of their habitat disappear, the animals could lose their famous white coats. Researchers have already witnessed polar bears hybridizing with their brown cousins, but note that it would take thousands of years from them to adapt themselves out of existence. Yeh, yeh, first they fail to go extinct, now their turning brown...LOL

A Cold Cup Of Coffee
Climate change may dramatically shrink the area suitable for coffee cultivation by the end of the century and cause the extinction of Arabica coffee plants in the wild. Starbucks has already declared that "Addressing climate change is a priority." There ya go, wanna scare a Libtard, threaten to do away with Starbucks.

Not A Drop To Drink
A 2012 study from the U.S. Forest Service found that without "major adaptation efforts," parts of the U.S. are likely to see "substantial future water shortages." Climate change, especially for the Southwest U.S., can both increase water demand and decrease water supply. It's called a desert stupid.

What it all boils down to is like Rush says. You never hear a prediction out of these "scientists" for 2018 but they can predict out 30 years no problem...'cause they won't be around to take the heat for their stupid unfounded prognostications.
 
Who's opposed to wind power or clean energy? Not me. Clean energy is my husband's work and pays my family's bills (thanks Obama!). I'm opposed to crippling taxes and regs that haven't even been proven to solve the problem.

If you agree there's a problem, Indy will call you a name.
 
If you agree there's a problem, Indy will call you a name.

I'm all for clean energy and less pollution. My uncle's company makes solar panels. Just don't lie and say it's to combat global warming. There's no such thing.
 
Indy already hates me cause I'm not down with his boy Trump.

Lindsey agrees there's a problem. At least if the GOP could get to that and argue about how to work on the problem, there could hope.
 
Lindsey agrees there's a problem. At least if the GOP could get to that and argue about how to work on the problem, there could hope.

Anyone who expresses any skepticism about the trends, the causes, contributing factors, impacts, proposed solutions, motivations behind the hysteria, etc. is labelled a denier. There are fewer real climate change "deniers" than Mother Jones would have you think.

The all or nothing attitude stifles any real investigation or progress towards consensus. Either you believe the government needs to step in and heavily tax and regulate industry, (oh, and submit to international oversight) or you're a "denier".
 
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All of the "solutions" involve shifting emissions around and taxing them. Why do you think that is?

All the solutions? I dunno, you can get tax credit for buying an electric car from the same company that will sell you a gas hog SUV. There's no taxes involved in using the bike lanes around Pittsburgh.
 
Polo, look at your own graph, idiot.

The temperatures 1998- present have declined, while CO2 levels have skyrocketed.

Global warming computer models - and that is the primary focus of the science known as global warming - did NOT prognosticate temperature decline with rising CO2 levels. Here are the flawed model vs. reality:

CMIP5-90-models-global-Tsfc-vs-obs-thru-2013.png


Let me be your Nietschze ... your global warming god is dead. Move on. Oh, and I apologize if my education level intimidates you. It must be disappointing to be stupid, wrong, lazy and so easily fooled.

In other words, to be you.

Did you not understand what I wrote(rhetorical question kids)?

Or are you being shady as your ilk tend to be counselor?

I'm not going to take everyone by the hand and explain basic science to them only to have them reject it for not fitting their worldview, I've done that in the past ad nauseam.

I will though address your current stupidity:

1.Look at "my graph" from 1985 to 2015

2. Hadcrut data is instrument data it has nothing to do with modeling.

3. No one is intimidated by your claim of being educated, or your claim to be a lawyer. I see you spend an inordinate amount of time on this board when really you should be doing something productive.

It would also seem to me that if you are what you claim, you wouldn't spend so much time arguing on a subject that obviously you are clueless about.
 
The IPCC models suggested a range of temperature changes over a span of 30 years (which constitutes enough time to be qualified as "climate" and not weather), but agreed that the temperatures over that long a span would INCREASE, not stabilize, with the continued increase in CO2 emissions. In fact, the IPCC models, when averaged out, projected a temperature increase of 0.25 degrees C per decade, or warnings of a temperature increase of 2.5 degrees C over the next century.

https://www.ipcc.ch/publications_and_data/ar4/syr/en/spms3.html

Note that these projections run from a low of 1.8 degrees to a high of 4.0 degrees C over the next 100 years, presuming continued increase in CO2 emissions.

Well, the CO2 emissions have continued to increase as China and India industrialize and rely significantly on coal and petroleum powered generators. Further, a span of 30 years is statistically significant for the warmers. They take pains to note that their models cannot predict temperatures over the next 2, 5, or 10 years. However, their models SHOULD be able to predict temperatures over a 30-year span.

“Our analysis confirmed what we expected from last IPCC report in 2007,” said Sakaguchi. “Those climate models are believed to be of good skill on large scales, for example predicting temperature trends over several decades, and we confirmed that by showing that the models work well for time spans longer than 30 years and across geographical scales spanning 30 degrees or more.”

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/09/18/climate-models-shown-to-be-inaccurate-less-than-30-years-out/

Climate models are approaching that 30-year mark. Numerous such models were developed in the 1990's, and are now 20 to 25 years old. Only a fool would not realize that the models are clearly failing over that time span.

Has the temperature warmed on a global scale over the past 25 years? Yes. Do the models do a good job of plotting that temperature change? No. Are the models accurately forecasting the amount of temperature change over 25 years? No.

Is that a big issue? Damn right it is. The field of climate science warns that temperature increases of 2.5 to 3.0 degrees C over the next century would be devastating. However, the same scientists agree that a temperature increase of 0.6 degrees C over that span would be almost negligible. The amount of temperature increase, the relationship between the numerous climate factors interacting with increased CO2 emissions, and the accuracy of the models is the debate here.

And in that debate, the climate models lose.
 
All the solutions? I dunno, you can get tax credit for buying an electric car from the same company that will sell you a gas hog SUV. There's no taxes involved in using the bike lanes around Pittsburgh.

No one's suggesting those things are bad ideas, they certainly can't hurt. Are they going to significantly impact climate change in any meaningful way? Of course not. Electric cars are still powered largely by fossil fuels, in fact some studies show they may even be worse for the environment than gas powered cars. Still, we plowed headlong into subsidizing them...A large global shift from automobile to bicycle use would certainly make an impact but is highly unlikely to happen. A small shift will do nothing.
 
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