• Please be aware we've switched the forums to their own URL. (again) You'll find the new website address to be www.steelernationforum.com Thanks
  • Please clear your private messages. Your inbox is close to being full.

Climate is not weather, except in California

CharlesDavenport

Well-known member
Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2014
Messages
9,583
Reaction score
5,866
Points
113
Obviously it is not only the time period that differentiates climate from weather, but it is also geography and alignment with the narrative of AGW.
"Well, there is a global market in—in many food commodities and that will tend to set the price," [Jerry] Brown said on ABC's This Week. "But remember, the weather that's happening in California, that weather will be reflect and show up in other parts of the world. And I can tell you, from California, climate change is not a hoax. We're dealing with it and it's damn serious."

Not only that, but it's permanent!
"The idea of your nice little green grass getting lots of water every day, that’s going to be a thing of the past,” Brown said on Thursday when announcing the new restrictions.

Just like the end of skiing, the demise of Arctic sea ice, whatever..

This chicken little crowd is so pathetic that they would be laughable if their bogus predicate wasn't the basis for government power grabs all over the world.
 
Does Jerry Brown not realize that California COULD have water if he and his other liberal panty waist friends didn't cater to the "save the smelt" crowd and allow water to flow naturally? What about desalinization plants? Oh wait...that would harm the environment. SMDH.
 
Ignore history, pump up the rhetoric and collect the checks say's the Gov of Mexifornia

"It's important to note that California's drought, while extreme, is not an uncommon occurrence for the state. In fact, multi-year droughts appear regularly in the state's climate record, and it's a safe bet that a similar event will happen again. Thus, preparedness is key," said Richard Seager, the lead author and professor with Columbia University's Lamont Doherty Earth Observatory.

Through studies of tree rings, sediment and other natural evidence, researchers have documented multiple droughts in California that lasted 10 or 20 years in a row during the past 1,000 years -- compared to the mere three-year duration of the current dry spell. The two most severe megadroughts make the Dust Bowl of the 1930s look tame: a 240-year-long drought that started in 850 and, 50 years after the conclusion of that one, another that stretched at least 180 years.

California, the nation's most populous state with 38 million residents, has built a massive economy, Silicon Valley, Hollywood and millions of acres of farmland, all in a semiarid area. The state's dams, canals and reservoirs have never been tested by the kind of prolonged drought that experts say will almost certainly occur again.

http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0LE...ted-more/RK=0/RS=4FFARfudWGtCoahi4BcmKAnhDlA-
 
As I said on one of The Blaze's threads on Facebook, if people in CA don't like the water restrictions they could always move to PA where we have plenty of rain, rivers, and lakes. The economy and weather both suck but hey, you can't have everything.
 
The way Brown wants to fix it is raise the delivery fee of the water. It's like raising your taxes but not calling it a tax.
 
Send in the shower police!


Attention America: Californians will shower less

Gov. Jerry Brown went on national TV Sunday to explain his newly-announced mandatory water restrictions that will, among other things, require California residents to shower less

http://news.investors.com/politics-...rought-mandatory-restrictions-jerry-brown.htm

---------------------------

Portland%20Hippies%202.jpg
 
While I am not one to blame all the Weather/Climate changes on Humans, you will not convince me that we are not contributing to said changes.

When you pave over massive areas of ground you prevent water from filtering back to the aquifers. The same areas will also absorb an extra amount of solar radiation, thereby increasing the temperature in the area during the day as well as taking longer to cool off.

When you allow PRIVATE companies to draw water from a semi-arid area to be bottled and sold to other parts of the country that already have water, that makes things worse.

Making choices that put people 2nd isn't always best.

Cutting down massive amounts of trees doesn't help.

These are just a couple things, but when they are all added up, a pattern starts to emerge. There have been changes to our environment since day one, they will also continue long after we are gone, but we are not helping things while we are here.
 
I have a better idea - let Israel run California


Israel no longer worried about its water supply, thanks to desalination plants


Israel has gone through one of the driest winters in its history, but despite the lean rainy season, the government has suspended a longstanding campaign to conserve water.

The familiar public messages during recent years of drought, often showing images of parched earth, have disappeared from television despite weeks of balmy weather with record low rainfalls in some areas.

The level of the Sea of Galilee, the country’s natural water reservoir, is no longer closely tracked in news reports or the subject of anxious national discussion.

The reason: Israel has in recent years achieved a quiet water revolution through desalination.

With four plants currently in operation, all built since 2005, and a fifth slated to go into service this year, Israel is meeting much of its water needs by purifying seawater from the Mediterranean. Some 80 percent of domestic water use in Israeli cities comes from desalinated water, according to Israeli officials.

“There’s no water problem because of the desalination,” said Hila Gil, director of the desalination division in the Israel Water Authority. “The problem is no longer on the agenda.”

The struggle over scarce water resources has fueled conflict between Israel and its neighbors, but the country is now finding itself increasingly self-sufficient after years of dependency on rainfall and subterranean aquifers.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2014/03/20/221880/israel-no-longer-worried-about.html
 
meanwhile, Arizona is living it up in the desert with plenty of water from the Colorado river - weeeeeeeeee



478051.bmp


69783_85201112636PM19267.jpg


Gene-Wilson.jpg
 
As I said on one of The Blaze's threads on Facebook, if people in CA don't like the water restrictions they could always move to PA where we have plenty of rain, rivers, and lakes. The economy and weather both suck but hey, you can't have everything.

And be surrounded by angry people clinging to their guns and religion?

Californians may have not forgotten what Obama said about small town PA. while on a fundraiser there.
 
And be surrounded by angry people clinging to their guns and religion?

Californians may have not forgotten what Obama said about small town PA. while on a fundraiser there.

That's true, we're scary. We don't even need guns, just the sheer number of people who smoke cigarettes would send Californians away screaming.
 
Last edited:
Desalinization is too expensive based on current California water prices.

Not true - ******* greenies want to block everything

20140529_065109_ssjm0530desal90_300.jpg


mvvfgx-hbposeidenplant2.gif


la-me-ln-desalination-plant-california-beach-delayed-20131114



Save the fishes!
 
Last edited:
http://www.cnbc.com/id/102563014

Desalinization is very expensive for most of California. The Carlsbad plant is in an area that only gets 10 inches of rain annually anyway.
Santa Barbara built a plant in the 90's and only used it for 4 months before moth balling it. Australia spent 10 billion on desal in reaction to a drought
and most of those plants sit idle today. The big problem with desalinization plants is, they aren't affordable when it starts raining again.
 
Well hell, why don't they just wait till it starts raining again, if that is the answer.

I have always believed a trans continental pipe line should be required for any flood restoration project. The gulf coast region gets hit with hurricanes on a regular basis. During rebuild, a pipeline/canal connection should be required. pump that water to the Colorado river. Eventually we would be able to prevent floods in most every area that floods now. Sell the water to those down stream that need it. We pump oil all over the place, why not water?
 
While I am not one to blame all the Weather/Climate changes on Humans, you will not convince me that we are not contributing to said changes.

A basic rule of logic is that I cannot prove a negative.

When you pave over massive areas of ground you prevent water from filtering back to the aquifers. The same areas will also absorb an extra amount of solar radiation, thereby increasing the temperature in the area during the day as well as taking longer to cool off.

That is called the "urban heat island" effect - a point that global warmers argue does NOT cause global warming. In fact, the UHI effect is something that McKittrick and McIntrye have long extolled as a true reason for increased temperature readings at certain temperature stations over the past 100 years.

Scientists have been very careful to ensure that UHI is not influencing the temperature trends. To address this concern, they have compared the data from remote stations (sites that are nowhere near human activity) to more urban sites. Likewise, investigators have also looked at sites across rural and urban China, which has experienced rapid growth in urbanisation over the past 30 years and is therefore very likely to show UHI. The difference between ideal rural sites compared to urban sites in temperature trends has been very small.

https://www.skepticalscience.com/urban-heat-island-effect.htm

[I know that site calls itself "skeptical science," but it has literally ZERO skepticism of man-made global warming, and is a global warming disciple.]


When you allow PRIVATE companies to draw water from a semi-arid area to be bottled and sold to other parts of the country that already have water, that makes things worse.

Bottled water has zero effect on California's present drought - ZERO, NONE, NADA, BUPKUS.

"The entire U.S. bottled water market is about 10 billion gallons [per year], and Los Angeles goes through that amount of tap water in less than three weeks," says Chris Hogan, spokesman for the International Bottled Water Association.

Jeff Davis, general manager of the San Gorgonio Pass Water Agency, doesn’t have exact numbers, but guesses that of all the municipal and industrial/non-agricultural water used in the state of California, 1 to 2 percent is used for drinking.


http://www.scpr.org/blogs/economy/2...tled-water-taking-away-from-calif-s-water-su/

We use the vast majority of our water for crops. Central California is the largest and most productive farmland on earth. It grows a huge percentage of the world's almonds, oranges, strawberries, lettuce, carrots, etc. and covers tens of millions of acres.

The drought is due to very low rain levels the past few years, resulting in very little snowpack. California depends on the melted snow from April through August to provide a massive amount of its water, but the lack of rain and snow has led to this drought - the 5th in my lifetime.

California is massive, hot and arid. Droughts happen here - always have, always will. Anybody suggesting that California's current drought is the product of "global warming" is at odds with ... well, global warmers themselves:

What factors caused the California Drought?

◾Weather conditions were key to explaining the event - a high pressure ridge off the West Coast diverted the track of storms during all three winters, typical of historical droughts.
◾West Coast high pressure was rendered more likely during 2011-14 by effects of sea surface temperature patterns over the world oceans.
◾The drought's first year (2011/2012) was likely the most predictable, when La Nina effects largely explained high pressure off the West Coast, though simulations indicate that high pressure continued to be favored due to ocean effects in 2012-14.

Is the California Drought a symptom of long term climate change?

The current drought is not part of a long-term change in California precipitation, which exhibits no appreciable trend since 1895.

http://cpo.noaa.gov/ClimatePrograms...orces/DroughtTaskForce/CaliforniaDrought.aspx

Cutting down massive amounts of trees doesn't help.

California has more forest now than it did in 75 years ago. The problem is that the forest is freaking dry and one spark will burn down thousands of acres.

Deforestation is not a problem in California.
 
Urban Heat Islands have long since morphed into Urban Heat Continents.

Bottled water is a waste of resources in most cases, not all, most.

Large populations in areas like Cali, will always have problems, just Mother Nature's way of telling people to move along.

The tree comment was not directed at the Cali situation.
 
The big problem with desalinization plants is, they aren't affordable when it starts raining again.

S. Cal isn't going to change They live in a ******* desert!

us_precip.gif
 
Global Warming Alert #1182

Crews clearing path through Lake Superior ice; ships stuck

450x338_q95.jpg


SAULT STE. MARIE, Mich. (AP) - Crews are working to clear a path through ice on eastern Lake Superior that's left freighters unable to move, including one that had a hole punched in its hull.......The cargo shipping season started last month on the upper Great Lakes.

The U.S. Coast Guard says a Canadian icebreaker on Wednesday is joining other American vessels breaking ice on Whitefish Bay. Officials say at least 10 ships are affected

http://www.myfoxny.com/story/28748825/lake-superior-ice-ships-stuck
 
Last edited:
Urban Heat Islands have long since morphed into Urban Heat Continents.

MT~Forged .. that is just silly. Have you ever driven across the United States????? If you believe that the United States has morphed into an urban heat continent, then I can tell you have NEVER DRIVEN ACROSS THIS COUNTRY.

99% of all land in this country is dirt, grass, vegetation, trees, etc. Another substantial percentage of the nation consists of lakes and rivers. Pavement and cement cover a tiny fraction of our nation.

Bottled water is a waste of resources in most cases, not all, most.

Okay. However, you raised this point in discussing California's drought, and I simply pointed out that bottled water plays NO ROLE, AT ALL, relative to the current drought.

Large populations in areas like Cali, will always have problems, just Mother Nature's way of telling people to move along.

But humans have always thrived in warm regions, since irrigation yields tremendous crop growth and since the growing season is so long. Mother nature is therefore telling us to populate the warmer regions and grow food.

California's drought will end with heavy rains, at which point the news will be filled with sobbing news reporters discussing landslides, etc. For me - been there, done that. Also, a significant part of the lack of water for irrigation for central California stems from a judge's finding that the massive water lines used to funnel rainwater into the delta and to farmers for irrigation were harming the "Delta smelt," a small fish. Before that ruling, California farmers received billions of gallons of water via the delta irrigation system, but now that water is being dumped into the ocean.*

Pumping restrictions aimed at protecting Delta smelt have reduced deliveries to water agencies in the Central Valley, Southern California and San Francisco Bay Area by more than 700,000 acre-feet since Nov. 1, state officials announced Feb. 13.

http://www.acwa.com/news/delta/water-supplies-curtailed-once-again-protect-delta-smelt

* Hey, where is the concern about "rising sea levels"?!?
 
The incessant need to regurgitate every idiotic thing that emanates from the pie holes of Beck and Limbaugh whether about soem tiny fish or hippie environmentalists is laughable as usual...

They only forgot the record breaking summers as far as temperatures( affecting transpiration/evapotranspiration), but other than that...bullseye.

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/20...wards-way-of-approaching-californias-drought/




Republicans Are Saying Environmentalists Caused California’s Drought. Here’s Why They’re Wron
g

Any way you cut it, California is in the midst of a dire drought — one that has been exacerbated by climate change. As the drought amplifies in impact and exposure — with statewide mandatory restrictions imposed for the first time last week — some would rather attribute its severity to a lack of water infrastructure, rather than the lack of rain. They would rather blame small fish than a changing climate and a growing population.

This straw man argument is not only disingenuous, it is also irresponsible. And it could set back the efforts of those focused on meeting the challenges of the state’s water stresses and climate impacts — like Governor Jerry Brown (D) and many in the state legislature — further harming all stakeholders, from Central Valley farmers to coastal residents.

Example A: Carly Fiorina, former Hewlett Packard CEO, failed 2010 GOP nominee for U.S. Senate, and friend of the fossil fuel industry. On Monday, Fiorina, who is considering a presidential bid, told Glenn Beck that the California drought is a “man-made disaster.” And by man-made she means it has been caused by “liberal environmentalists” who have prevented the state from building the appropriate reservoirs and other water infrastructure.

“In California, fish and frogs and flies are really important,” she said. ” … California is a classic case of liberals being willing to sacrifice other people’s lives and livelihoods at the altar of their ideology.”

In an interview with MSNBC that same day, Fiorina placed her comments within the context of climate change, saying that whatever California does to address climate change “won’t make a bit of difference.”

“A single state, or single nation, acting alone can make no difference at all, that’s what the scientists say,” she said. “We’re disabling our own economy and not having any impact at all on climate change.”

This is not the first time Fiorina has lambasted the state’s efforts to address the drought or climate change as exercises in economic ruin, nor is she the first one to have made the misguided argument. The House Natural Resources Committee, chaired by Rob Bishop (R-UT), holds the viewpoint that this “man-made drought” is responsible for fallowing hundreds of thousands of acres of fertile farmland in California and that much of the state’s farmland is in “danger of becoming a dust bowl unless immediate action is taken to change policies that put the needs of fish above the livelihood of people.”

Last January, Rep. Devin Nunes (R-CA) said his area of the state has been decimated by drought due to politicians using “water as a weapon” by cutting supply off to farmers in order to better protect liberal voters.

“The elites that live in Hollywood and in San Francisco and along the coast support these radical environmental policies that cut off the infrastructure that’s been built and then Jerry Brown and others run around saying ‘oh gosh, we have to do something about this, it’s the drought and global warming,'” he said. “No, that’s nonsense you morons. It’s because you shut all the infrastructure off.”

Nunes is attacking, in part, policies surrounding the Delta smelt, a species that has been listed as threatened since 1993 under the federal Endangered Species Act and is approaching extinction. A 2008 decision by the Fish and Wildlife Service to safeguard the fish restricted the amount of water that can be pumped from the Sacramento-San Joaquin Delta and sent south to agricultural interests and water districts.

Both Nunes and Fiorina lamented the amount of water that the state wastes each year on ecological flows, with Fiorina saying that 70 percent of California’s rainfall “washes out to sea” every year.

Andrew Fahlund, deputy director of the California Water Foundation, disagrees with that number and with most everything Fiorina said.

“Thinking that building more reservoirs will get you out of a drought is like assuming that opening more checking accounts when you’ve lost your income will help you pay your bills,” he told ThinkProgress.

According to Fahlund, only 50 percent of water in California flows to the coast. Fahlund said that according to the Bureau of Reclamation’s own numbers, building the reservoirs that Fiorina is referring to would have only resulted in a net increase of one percent to the state’s water supplies.

“And by this year, the fourth year of a drought, that water would have been used up just like the water in most of the rest of the state’s reservoirs,” he said. Fahlund said the real reason the state hasn’t invested in more dams or pipelines is that no one wants to pay for them, most of all not taxpayers.

“Study after study shows that the three projects most cited by advocates of new infrastructure don’t pass any sort of cost-benefit test,” he said.

Most of the recent investments in water infrastructure have gone unnoticed, according to Fahlund, who said that these advances have come in the form of efficiency measures. Results of these efforts include Los Angeles using the same amount of water it used in the 1970s but with a much larger population and “agriculture growing increasingly productive and lucrative despite using the same amount of water.”

Future efficiency projects could include things like upgrading urban water infrastructure to prevent massive leaks, such as the one that occurred at the University of California, Los Angeles last year when a pipe ruptured, spewing 20 million gallons of water into the street.

Jay Famiglietti, the senior water scientist at the NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory at the California Institute of Technology, also invoked harsh terms in response to Fiorina’s statements.

“There is zero truth to any argument that attempts to characterize the current California drought as man-made,” he told ThinkProgress via email. “All you need to do is look at up the mountains and realize that there is no snow, look at the reservoirs and see that they are nearly empty, and look at last January to see that it was the driest on record. A lack of infrastructure is not the issue when there is nothing to put in it.”

According to Famiglietti, suggesting that allocating water for environmental flows is a waste shows a lack of appreciation for the many benefits of these flows.

“Stemming environmental flows could do irreparable damage to the ecosystems that sustain us, and would be counterproductive at best,” he said. For instance, if not enough water flows into the California Delta, salt water from San Francisco Bay could intrude further into it, making it more saline and lowering the quality of the water used for drinking and agricultural purposes.

Famiglietti went on to say that while the lack of water is already “right before our eyes and is undeniable” that “climate change will create a new class of water ‘haves’ and ‘have-nots,'” and that we need to begin preparing now for the challenges and complexities this will present.

This dynamic can already be seen playing out in Brown’s recent executive order for local water agencies to cut usage 25 percent from 2013 levels — the first time statewide mandatory restrictions have been imposed. While Fiorina and other right-wingers make noise about the state’s preference for urban elites and ecological flows, the executive order exempts any mandatory cuts from agricultural sources.

Agricultural water use accounts for around four-fifths of the state’s human water use. The executive order addresses this impact mainly in the form of increased enforcement against “illegal diversions and waste and unreasonable use of water.” Statewide, average water use is roughly 50 percent environmental, 40 percent agricultural, and 10 percent urban, according to the Public Policy Institute of California (PPIC). More than half of California’s environmental water use occurs in rivers along the state’s north coast — sources that, according to PPIC, “are largely isolated from major agricultural and urban areas and cannot be used for other purposes.”

Brown defended his treatment of the state’s agriculture industry by saying that California’s farms are “providing most of the fruits and vegetables of America” and that cutting off water allocations off would displace hundreds of thousands of people.

Jay Lund, director of the Center for Watershed Sciences at the University of California, Davis, added to the chorus saying that building more water infrastructure would not solve the crisis. According to Lund, the most impactful new storage projects as considered by the state would only offer an additional 5 to 15 percent of new storage capacity.

In conducting a study on California’s potential for future water storage, Lund found that the limitation “stems primarily from a lack of streamflow to reliably fill larger amounts of storage space.”

In one sense at least, Lund agrees with Fiorina about the human causes of the drought.

“I suppose in a way all droughts are man-made, in the sense that without human water demands, we wouldn’t usually consider these conditions to be a drought,” he told ThinkProgress.

Even if you don’t live in California, this likely includes your demands too.
 
http://www.cnbc.com/id/102563014

Desalinization is very expensive for most of California. The Carlsbad plant is in an area that only gets 10 inches of rain annually anyway.
Santa Barbara built a plant in the 90's and only used it for 4 months before moth balling it. Australia spent 10 billion on desal in reaction to a drought
and most of those plants sit idle today. The big problem with desalinization plants is, they aren't affordable when it starts raining again.

That's ******* retarded. When isn't there a market for water.
 
Does anyone here actually read Elfie's cut and paste super posts?
 
Does anyone here actually read Elfie's cut and paste super posts?

When it starts with ThinkProgress, no way in hell. I read her initial comments. ElSharpton wants you to believe that Climate Change/AGW/Global Warming is leading to this.

Even her own corrupt NOAA disagrees: http://www.climatecentral.org/news/noaa-climate-change-calif.-drought-18421
And Liberal NBC disagrees: http://www.nbcnews.com/science/envi...ifornia-drought-report-triggers-storm-n263941

While this article is dated, the factual impact can't be denied. Environmental laws force fresh water into the sea. Brilliant. Of course, "we can't say" that this has anything at all to do with a drought because, by God, it doesn't fit the narrative: http://spectator.org/articles/40982/emptying-reservoirs-middle-drought

ANYONE DOUBTING THAT OUR nation's environmental and economic policies can get seriously out of whack from time to time need only look to the Sacramento-San Joaquin River Delta. Located in California's Central Valley, between the state's capital city and Stockton, it is where the American, Mokelumne, Cosumnes, and Calaveras Rivers flow into the larger Sacramento and San Joaquin. It is also where the saddest agricultural saga since the Depression-era Dust Bowl is now playing, as the waters from those rivers flow beneath San Francisco's Golden Gate Bridge and out to sea. As they flow unimpeded to the Pacific, those waters are also washing out to sea the livelihoods of tens of thousands of farm workers and agricultural business owners. It is an economic as well as human tragedy.

That is the irony of California: a state that is Valhalla for environmentalists and the home base for the green movement is an affront to—and perversion of—nature. California is an artificially constructed paradise. The Golden State owes its golden existence largely to mammoth engineering feats representing mankind's ingenuity and triumph over the natural realm. It's not just Hoover Dam, that wonder of the modern world, but dozens of less famous man-made dams and lakes and reservoirs, with names like Glen Canyon and Parker and Havasu and Link River, that help reshape the landscape to provide water and power to California's faraway population centers. The state could not sustain its giant cities or its astoundingly fertile agricultural sector without them. Today's California, that greenest of American states, is itself testimony to man bending nature to his purpose...

Excellent point we all forget. California would be uninhabitable if not for man-made engineering that sustains life through water. Then, courts and environmentalists step in, curtailing the flow and availability of said water. And we want to argue it has NOTHING to do with the drought. LOL, ok :)

According to Tulare County supervisor Allen Ishida, "California was forced to let 660,000 acrefeet of its freshwater supplies run out to the ocean. That was enough water to supply the entire Silicon Valley for two years."

Of course, she will somehow argue that despite being in a drought (that has nothing to do with AGW) that allowing enough water to supply Silicon Valley (in one instance alone) to flow into the ocean has NOTHING to do with the problem. Nothing at all.

Logic at its finest.
 
Top