Common Core

[deljzc]

The point of common core math is to make sure kids look smarter on paper by manipulating grading systems and teaching a method which is supposedly easier. In reality, the methods are designed to slow down the smarter kids who understand math. Exceptional students are seen as a problem to common core because they make the others look bad by comparison.

There is also a stupid belief that all kids are the same. That "smart" kid probably just had some kind of unfair advantage somewhere. So they want to drag those kids back to the pack. I mean they have to. If kids are left to their own devices, then that group of exceptional students may not have the exact racial and gender mix that is desired.

I agree with this. There is not nearly enough done to nourish the smart students. It's amazing how quickly sports determines, selects and segregates the "talented" but when any effort to do what with intelligence is done, it's racist or unequal or unfair.

The double standard is one of the most hypocritical things done to our children in America (and sets a very bad precedence down the line with how we view athletes vs. smart people).

I'm not saying I agree with full segregation of students based on test scores or something. I think there are some benefits of being exposed to all walks of life as you grow to understand your own worth. And I don't want to see so much of school be defined by test scores and some intellect rank, especially for elementary school kids.

It's a tough debate that I don't have all the answers to and that many educational professionals struggle with. How much separation is good and when? How do you determine separation? What differences in the curriculum should be done?

The real fear is that we start pre-selecting the "path" kids get on too early in their development. We can't turn into some Orwellian society that tests 5 year olds and we determine their educational "path" that proves to strictly limit their function in society.

Maybe there is a way we could create 3-5 different "levels" of education in each grade. If your student ends up in the top-half of their class (as determined by test scores AND teacher evaluation), they parents have a CHOICE to either remain at that level the following year or jump up into the next level. Likewise if you are in the bottom half (and maybe it's really 30% highest, 40% middle and 30% bottom), then the parents can CHOOSE to go down into the lower educational curve.

But again, is that much segregation into like-minded groups a benefit to society? Aren't we limited who our kids know and hang out with and become friends with?

Tough questions in my opinion.

 

[Spike]

Why don't we just ask this guy?

 

[oneforthebus]

I thought the whole point of this thread was to discuss those that AREN'T moving forward into algebra? Which one is it?

Obviously, for the super smart and mathematically curious, much of what common core is teaching "just came naturally" to us. We figured out very early how to regroup numbers in our heads. That 98 was close to 100 and 48 was close to 50 and 98+48 = 146 (because it's 2+2 less than 150). But mostly we figured stuff like that out on our own, through our own curiosity.

I remember playing with a stupid little calculator for HOURS when was a kid. Just to play around with numbers.

And for 20% of the population they would learn math if they went to school or not. And for 20% of the population they could probably survive algebra without ever having taken a math class up to that point.

But we're not talking about them. We're talking about people that are "in the middle" or "in the bottom half" of predetermined math skills. There are people that need help. And the way you help them isn't by memorization of adding/subtraction/multiplying/dividing numbers 0-9 and that's it. You don't teach "speed".

You teach bigger concepts of "size" so that the minute any number gets into 3 or 4 or 5 digits they give up because it's just to damn hard to remember all those columns in your head. And this is hugely important in daily applications of math like figuring out a tip or how much you pay over a 60 month loan at a certain monthly payment or checking to make sure you taxes withheld on a paycheck are correct.

We take stuff like that for granted but there are a LOT of people that struggle with very simple math because they can't go from what they "memorized" with 0-9 digits and apply it to real math questions.

So why should the kids who don't need it be forced to sit through it and forced to work out problems this way? Why are we telling kids correct answers are incorrect if they didn't do the work in a way that takes ten times longer and is far less efficient for them? Shouldn't kids who figure out better and faster ways of solving problems be rewarded, not punished? Why don't we call it "remedial math" instead of pretending it's some kind of higher level learning?

 

[ark steel]

I thought the whole point of this thread was to discuss those that AREN'T moving forward into algebra? Which one is it?

Obviously, for the super smart and mathematically curious, much of what common core is teaching "just came naturally" to us. We figured out very early how to regroup numbers in our heads. That 98 was close to 100 and 48 was close to 50 and 98+48 = 146 (because it's 2+2 less than 150). But mostly we figured stuff like that out on our own, through our own curiosity.

I remember playing with a stupid little calculator for HOURS when was a kid. Just to play around with numbers.

And for 20% of the population they would learn math if they went to school or not. And for 20% of the population they could probably survive algebra without ever having taken a math class up to that point.

But we're not talking about them. We're talking about people that are "in the middle" or "in the bottom half" of predetermined math skills. There are people that need help. And the way you help them isn't by memorization of adding/subtraction/multiplying/dividing numbers 0-9 and that's it. You don't teach "speed".

You teach bigger concepts of "size" so that the minute any number gets into 3 or 4 or 5 digits they give up because it's just to damn hard to remember all those columns in your head. And this is hugely important in daily applications of math like figuring out a tip or how much you pay over a 60 month loan at a certain monthly payment or checking to make sure you taxes withheld on a paycheck are correct.

We take stuff like that for granted but there are a LOT of people that struggle with very simple math because they can't go from what they "memorized" with 0-9 digits and apply it to real math questions.

you said they are all basics for moving forward in Algebra. Thousands of people moved forward in Algebra without this

I'd guess, for a great percentage of those people who want (maybe have the capacity) to move forward in Algebra, this process slows them down. For the very few this MAY help, there is, probably, a better way than forcing this system down everyone's throat. You know, extra tutoring which is already available (free) in every school my white privilege kids have attended. Their schools that are majority black.

No one figures out 60-month loans in their head. Well, no one with a brain. Want to know what a 15% tip is? Round the bill up to the next $ Divide the bill by 10 (move the decimal point one over...). That is 10%. Divide that number by 2. That is 5%. The sum is 15%. I write this equation at the bottom of every receipt I get in a restaurant. Why on earth would I do that **** in my head?

The worst part of the whole system, as others have noted 23+34= 57 is not an acceptable answer if you don't do it their way. If you don't NEED their way

 

[ark steel]

Why don't we call it "remedial math"

How many slaves do you own?

 

[Confluence]

like boiling a frog

 

[BLITZ]

One of my kids is in 8th grade. I can tell you the parents hate common core, but the teachers hate it more. This is just perspective of one school so don't take it for much. But when asked about common core at the last parent teacher meeting, each of her teachers expressed negative feelings. Math teacher feels that it takes longer to teach basic math.

 

[SteelChip]

Steelin....Here's another good one that is full of outright lies. Who in the **** approved this garbage to be taught in our schools?

In a word, our brilliant Commander in Chief... B-Rock

He appointed this loser first. I'm guessin' he was a bathhouse bud from Chi-town and Harvard

Arne Duncan

One of Duncan's initiatives as secretary had been a $4 billion Race to the Top competition. In March 2011, Duncan said 82 percent of the nation’s public schools could be failing by the following year under the standards of the No Child Left Behind law.

On July 4, 2014, the National Education Association, the largest teacher's union in the United States, passed a resolution of "no confidence" in Duncan's leadership of the Department of Education and asked for his resignation.[12]

On July 13, 2014, the American Federation of Teachers approved a resolution calling for Education Secretary Arne Duncan to resign if he does not improve under a plan to be implemented by President Barack Obama.[13] The “improvement plan” would require that Secretary Duncan enact the equity and funding recommendations of the Equity Commission’s “Each and Every Child” report; revise the No Child Left Behind and Race To The Top “test-and-punish” system of accountability to a “support-and-improve” structure; and “promote rather than question” teachers and school staff

Then when he fell on his face, B-Rock sent in the B team to clean it up.

John King, Jr.

In choosing King to succeed Arne Duncan, the Washington Post stated that President Obama was "choosing continuity" and noted that King was pushing for the adoption of teacher evaluations, Common Core Standards and student testing as the New York State Commissioner of Schools while the Obama administration was pushing for the adoption of similar reforms across the United States.

On February 2, 2016, according to Federal News Radio, members of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee took King and the Department's chief information officer Danny Harris to task for systemic cybersecurity problems, and what some called a lack of accountability for past behaviors.

On March 14, 2016, King was approved to be Secretary of Education by the United States Senate after a 49-40 vote

Could somebody remind me again just what the Dept of Education is supposed to be doing for our kids ? Besides teaching them the wonders of socialism that is.

 

[ark steel]

Theoretically, in a generation when all of the teachers that are teaching then grew up with this method, you "might" be better off.

Long time to wait for results when, IMO, those results are going to be disappointing. But Ark, what makes you think it will be disappointing. Federally run and mandated....

 

[MT~Forged]

I taught my son from a VERY young age to MEMORIZE the number tables. He could do them in any order 1-10 x 1-10 addition and subtraction in less than 3 minutes by the time he entered 2nd grade. once they have the basics, they can move on. He had a friend that was still having problems well into 4th grade, I started over with him after school on just the basics, he was caught back up with the class by the time he entered 5th grade. My son graduated at the top of his class, received a FULL scholarship to MT State school of Engineering, graduated and now works as an Engineer all because of his understanding of math. Once kids get the basics down, they develop a sense of pride that can easily propel them forward.

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

you have to remember that liberals are obsessed with "equality" on paper, not in real life. They don't even like when the weather fluctuates away from what they deem to be the average. Let it get too hot or too cold and they freak out.

The same happens with education. Liberals think that each subject should have an equal number of men women black white etc represented. They see that men are naturally more drawn to math and science than women as a problem, not just as a natural difference.

Liberals do not care if somebody with a math degree is actually proficient enough in math to warrant that degree. It's just a line on a spreadsheet to them.

They want more women and minorities (no, self sufficient groups like Indians and Asians don't count as minorities to liberals) in STEM fields. They want an engineering firm to have the same number of women as men engineers making the same pay even if half those engineers barely have a grasp of the job because their education was just a scam, a facade meant only to make people qualified on paper.

We need to have different tracks in education. Smart kids should be put on tracks of math and science and higher education as early as grade school. Dumb kids should also be put on a track that will teach them more hands on life skills so they can leave high school with a trade like carpentry or cooking or whatever. That's a good life too and there is no shame in it.

Unfortunately liberals look down on people who work with their hands and they have long sold the notion that everyone MUST go to college or they can't survive. I know plenty of people who wasted years and lots of money on college and then ended up learning a trade anyway, only with a ton of debt.

People are different and it is not racist to point that out. Reality is not racist. We are doing these kids a disservice by telling them they can be anything they want to be and encouraging them to spend 100 grand on a supposed higher education that they will never really use.

Becoming a mason is higher education. So is cooking school. Let's stop pretending like the empty, watered down, college degrees of today are golden tickets.

Common core is simply a way to keep larger number of kids on the path to college regardless of whether they belong there or not.

 

[Yinzerlyn]

Bravo, tape. Bravo, bravo, BRAVO.

I'll take it one step further. I worked in SpEd for 8 years. While I am 100% for inclusion, I am NOT for inclusion when it does NOT benefit the child. Case in point- making the functional kids (kids with Down's and on that level) take a regular art class to graduate. I had a student this past year who could only write his name. That was it. But in order to graduate, he HAD to have 2 semesters of regular art in addition to the modified art class they are required to take. I GET modified art. Teaches them the basics. And by basics, I mean tracing and coloring. So the regular art classes are painting, drawing, clay, and creative crafts. I'm sorry, but for a kid who can ONLY write his name, making a clay pot is NOT going to help him out in life. (And some of the lower functional kids have sensory issues to where touching the clay throws them off). I sat in a regular art class with this kid....and do you know what the teacher did for his lesson (which had to be modified)? Had him color in a coloring book. I'm sorry...but the time he spent in the REGULAR art class COLORING in a coloring book could have been spent in a life skills class or something more beneficial to HIM. It's so messed up.

Now there ARE functional kids who CAN do art in a regular setting, and to me, that's OK. If they CAN do it, then let them. That's what inclusion is. It's NOT forcing kids with little to no cognitive abilities to take classes that don't benefit them in any way just so they can graduate.

 

[IndySteel]

 

[CharlesDavenport]

View attachment 2252

That's perfect.

 

[21STEELERS21]

Red states don't like common core because they don't like putting money into their schools, keeping their
citizens dumb and unemployable. Blue states have the hope that common core will force red states to
start educating their citizens so that Blue states don't have to forever pay 80% of federal taxes.

Everyone always argues about states rights, but some states (and they know who they are) need to get off
their ***** and start contributing to this country and not leaving it to the Northeast and West Coast to finance the
country alone.

 

[oneforthebus]

Red states don't like common core because they don't like putting money into their schools, keeping their
citizens dumb and unemployable. Blue states have the hope that common core will force red states to
start educating their citizens so that Blue states don't have to forever pay 80% of federal taxes.

Everyone always argues about states rights, but some states (and they know who they are) need to get off
their ***** and start contributing to this country and not leaving it to the Northeast and West Coast to finance the
country alone.

Actually blue states hate Common Core too. People in New York and New Jersey hate it even more than we do here in PA. It's hated by Dems and Republicans alike.

http://dailycaller.com/2014/06/17/o...ents-say-common-core-is-a-disastrous-failure/
http://www.monmouth.edu/assets/0/32...1087/c8c49429-9e6e-44ae-9d2f-de5e83189f87.pdf

 

[Steelin]

For both sides to hate it, it has to be garbage.

 

[ark steel]

Red states don't like common core because they don't like putting money into their schools, keeping their
citizens dumb and unemployable. Blue states have the hope that common core will force red states to
start educating their citizens so that Blue states don't have to forever pay 80% of federal taxes.

Everyone always argues about states rights, but some states (and they know who they are) need to get off
their ***** and start contributing to this country and not leaving it to the Northeast and West Coast to finance the
country alone.

Brilliant analysis. The red states (remember when red was used for the Dem states...) don't like putting money in the pockets of liberals whose job it is to keep their kids dumb enough to grow into liberals.

 

[oneforthebus]

Brilliant analysis. The red states (remember when red was used for the Dem states...) don't like putting money in the pockets of liberals whose job it is to keep their kids dumb enough to grow into liberals.

"Blue" areas have great education systems...let's see, we've got Philadelphia, New York, Baltimore, Washington DC, Camden, NJ...of course that's just in the Northeast, I could go on..L.A., Detroit, Chicago...so many awesome public schools in Dem strongholds.

 

[Yinzerlyn]

"Blue" areas have great education systems...let's see, we've got Philadelphia, New York, Baltimore, Washington DC, Camden, NJ...of course that's just in the Northeast, I could go on..L.A., Detroit, Chicago...so many awesome public schools in Dem strongholds.

But but but.....that's racist!!!!

 

[Rod Farva]

For both sides to hate it, it has to be garbage.

Trump?

 

[SteelChip]

But but but.....that's racist!!!!

To continue that thought Lyn, I give you this...........

Think about it !

 

[Stewey]

What, specifically, is Common Core, and why are so many of you opposed to it?

Opposed to it because everything liberalism touches turns to ****.

 

[Rod Farva]

You're right. And what a lot of people get up in arms about is really good strategy. The word "regrouping" has been used for many years. It means borrowing and carrying.

Yep.........60 here and even I remember Wilma and Betty teaching us to "regroup."

Actual question on a Common Core math test for a third grader:

Can you get 10 from 8+5?

The child answered "NO, because 8+5=13."

He got it wrong. The teacher wrote " The answer is wrong. You CAN get 10 from 8+5. You subtract 3 from 8, which gives you 5. Add that 5 to the other 5, and it gives you 10."

I **** you not.

No major problem with that one because of the way it's worded.....its literal interpretation means that "yes, you CAN get 10.....BUT there will be three remaining."

Even for those of us who understand the concepts, the methods are unnecessarily drudgerous. Let's say my son couldn't remember what 9 + 6 was. I might say to him "Well, what's 10 plus 6? So 9 +6 is one less." Same concept with about 50 less steps than the problem below. For a kid who can look at 23 + 24 and say "That's 47" having to go though all of these drawings and groupings is absolute torture. And no, it doesn't help with algebra. If you have a lengthy algebra problem to do, you damn well better know off the top of you head what 9 + 6 is. If you have to "deconstruct" every basic addition problem you are not going to be able to do algebra. At some point no matter how great your understanding of the concepts, you have to know basic addition and multiplication.


“Our young learners might not be altogether comfortable thinking about what 9 + 6 is,” Ryan relates. “They are quite comfortable thinking about their friend, 10.”


The novel addition method emphasizes 10 for younger students “as we’re working in ‘Base 10 System.'”

“So if we can partner 9 to a number and anchor 10, we can help our students see what 9 + 6 is.”


At no point does Ryan explain how this impressively complex method of adding 9 + 6 will lead students to any understanding of “why” 9 + 6 is 15.

“We’re going to decompose our 6,” the teacher continues, drawing two small diagonal lines under the 6, then adding a number 1 and a number 5.

“We know 6 is made up of parts,” she instructs. “One of its parts is a 1 and the other part is a 5.”

Then, things get super-complex.

“We’re now going to anchor our 9 to a 1, allowing our students to anchor to that 10″ Ryan says, while drawing a big, oblong circle around the 9 and the 1.”

“Now our students are seeing that we have 10 + 5,” she declares confidently. She stutters a bit and adds, “Having, uh, now more comfort seeing that 10 + 5 is 15. That’s much more comfortable than looking at 9 + 6.”



Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2014/09/03/c...-add-9-6-that-takes-54-seconds/#ixzz44xfwsSkg

Common core.....making even simple math completely onerous and indecipherable.

I thought the whole point of this thread was to discuss those that AREN'T moving forward into algebra? Which one is it?

Obviously, for the super smart and mathematically curious, much of what common core is teaching "just came naturally" to us. We figured out very early how to regroup numbers in our heads. That 98 was close to 100 and 48 was close to 50 and 98+48 = 146 (because it's 2+2 less than 150). But mostly we figured stuff like that out on our own, through our own curiosity.

I remember playing with a stupid little calculator for HOURS when was a kid. Just to play around with numbers.

And for 20% of the population they would learn math if they went to school or not. And for 20% of the population they could probably survive algebra without ever having taken a math class up to that point.

But we're not talking about them. We're talking about people that are "in the middle" or "in the bottom half" of predetermined math skills. There are people that need help. And the way you help them isn't by memorization of adding/subtraction/multiplying/dividing numbers 0-9 and that's it. You don't teach "speed".

You teach bigger concepts of "size" so that the minute any number gets into 3 or 4 or 5 digits they give up because it's just to damn hard to remember all those columns in your head. And this is hugely important in daily applications of math like figuring out a tip or how much you pay over a 60 month loan at a certain monthly payment or checking to make sure you taxes withheld on a paycheck are correct.

We take stuff like that for granted but there are a LOT of people that struggle with very simple math because they can't go from what they "memorized" with 0-9 digits and apply it to real math questions.

A level playing field has no favorites.

I agree with this. There is not nearly enough done to nourish the smart students. It's amazing how quickly sports determines, selects and segregates the "talented" but when any effort to do what with intelligence is done, it's racist or unequal or unfair.

The double standard is one of the most hypocritical things done to our children in America (and sets a very bad precedence down the line with how we view athletes vs. smart people).

I'm not saying I agree with full segregation of students based on test scores or something. I think there are some benefits of being exposed to all walks of life as you grow to understand your own worth. And I don't want to see so much of school be defined by test scores and some intellect rank, especially for elementary school kids.

It's a tough debate that I don't have all the answers to and that many educational professionals struggle with. How much separation is good and when? How do you determine separation? What differences in the curriculum should be done?

The real fear is that we start pre-selecting the "path" kids get on too early in their development. We can't turn into some Orwellian society that tests 5 year olds and we determine their educational "path" that proves to strictly limit their function in society.

Maybe there is a way we could create 3-5 different "levels" of education in each grade. If your student ends up in the top-half of their class (as determined by test scores AND teacher evaluation), they parents have a CHOICE to either remain at that level the following year or jump up into the next level. Likewise if you are in the bottom half (and maybe it's really 30% highest, 40% middle and 30% bottom), then the parents can CHOOSE to go down into the lower educational curve.

But again, is that much segregation into like-minded groups a benefit to society? Aren't we limited who our kids know and hang out with and become friends with?

Tough questions in my opinion.

Two things.....or is it "too" thing in the new academia? One, each person is free to determine his or her own level of "separation" in a merit based system. It was once known by various terms like "grading, passing, failing, etc." But today such terminology is erroneously judged as hurtful or mean or some other neo-perversion of the English language. One can or one can't. One will or one won't. Personal choices, personal responsibility. It used to be so simple.

Two, your scenario presupposes caring, involved parenting. Again, things that have been relegated to the status' of "old fashioned" or "stifling" and not good for lil' Cupcake's self esteem and "growth."

So why should the kids who don't need it be forced to sit through it and forced to work out problems this way? Why are we telling kids correct answers are incorrect if they didn't do the work in a way that takes ten times longer and is far less efficient for them? Shouldn't kids who figure out better and faster ways of solving problems be rewarded, not punished? Why don't we call it "remedial math" instead of pretending it's some kind of higher level learning?

Imagine if Pythagoras, Euchlid and Archimedes had been told that seeking new approaches was unacceptable.

you have to remember that liberals are obsessed with "equality" on paper, not in real life. They don't even like when the weather fluctuates away from what they deem to be the average. Let it get too hot or too cold and they freak out.

The same happens with education. Liberals think that each subject should have an equal number of men women black white etc represented. They see that men are naturally more drawn to math and science than women as a problem, not just as a natural difference.

Liberals do not care if somebody with a math degree is actually proficient enough in math to warrant that degree. It's just a line on a spreadsheet to them.

They want more women and minorities (no, self sufficient groups like Indians and Asians don't count as minorities to liberals) in STEM fields. They want an engineering firm to have the same number of women as men engineers making the same pay even if half those engineers barely have a grasp of the job because their education was just a scam, a facade meant only to make people qualified on paper.

We need to have different tracks in education. Smart kids should be put on tracks of math and science and higher education as early as grade school. Dumb kids should also be put on a track that will teach them more hands on life skills so they can leave high school with a trade like carpentry or cooking or whatever. That's a good life too and there is no shame in it.

Unfortunately liberals look down on people who work with their hands and they have long sold the notion that everyone MUST go to college or they can't survive. I know plenty of people who wasted years and lots of money on college and then ended up learning a trade anyway, only with a ton of debt.

People are different and it is not racist to point that out. Reality is not racist. We are doing these kids a disservice by telling them they can be anything they want to be and encouraging them to spend 100 grand on a supposed higher education that they will never really use.

Becoming a mason is higher education. So is cooking school. Let's stop pretending like the empty, watered down, college degrees of today are golden tickets.

Common core is simply a way to keep larger number of kids on the path to college regardless of whether they belong there or not.

I have said this much more simply for a while now. The world needs ditch diggers too. As little as ten to fifteen years ago I would have been pretty insistent that college was necessary with my kids (and in fact was with one of them). But the idea that everyone needs to or even should attend college is wrong. The fact that the government insists they do is all I need to know, but between the debt and the worthless degrees being pursued I am now much more of the belief that health care and physical types of engineering are basically the two fields where college is absolutely necessary.

Red states don't like common core because they don't like putting money into their schools, keeping their
citizens dumb and unemployable. Blue states have the hope that common core will force red states to
start educating their citizens so that Blue states don't have to forever pay 80% of federal taxes.

Everyone always argues about states rights, but some states (and they know who they are) need to get off
their ***** and start contributing to this country and not leaving it to the Northeast and West Coast to finance the
country alone.

Do you ever even think before you post ****?

 

[MT~Forged]

Red states don't like common core because they don't like putting money into their schools, keeping their
citizens dumb and unemployable. Blue states have the hope that common core will force red states to
start educating their citizens so that Blue states don't have to forever pay 80% of federal taxes.

Everyone always argues about states rights, but some states (and they know who they are) need to get off
their ***** and start contributing to this country and not leaving it to the Northeast and West Coast to finance the
country alone.

I hit the wrong button so don't go getting all happy.

Are you off you meds? You have come up with some doozies, but this takes the cake.