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Cortez Allen Contract Extension 4-years, $26 million

That is what it comes down to. Colbert and the others involved are not letting Tomlin run everything.

Yes, they are. But considering we SUDDENLY changed draft philosophies entirely the very year Tomlin was hired, and we're almost exclusively taking guys early who fit Tomlin's 4-3 Tampa-2 scheme.. it makes the picture look even clearer. No, Tomlin does not pick players by himself. But he clearly has a massive influence on it.

Now if you want to say the quality of player picked is the same and the coaching is making them look worse. You might have a point

Whatever the reasoning, our roster has dipped from the top of the league to subpar with holes everywhere and no depth at all. I don't really care if it's the drafting or the coaching or both.

But to say the sucky players picked are all Tomlin's fault is just hatred. And yes some here do say that

It's Par that says that, and as I said, it's a stir-the-**** gimmick that nobody seems to catch.
 
You haven't even attempted to answer the points just brought up. Just posted and re-posted something about hating Mike Tomlin.

He has posted his side multiple times. So have I and so have a lot of others. You guys keep bringing this **** up like a bad remake of Groundhog Day. What can't you understand about rebuilding? Jesus. Cowher missed the playoffs three years in a row and had two losing seasons in that stretch because his cupboard got bare. Once the team was rebuilt he couldn't win because he didn't have a QB. Guess what.......in the first few years of the last rebuild (Which we can honestly say was from 1998-2004) the team bottomed out AGAIN and had a 6-10 season. Had it not been for that season the Steelers would not have Ben Roethlisberger and would be without the final piece of their Super Bowl contending rosters. Sometimes having a losing season is the best thing for winning in the future. They maintained this core for as long as they could.....maybe stretched it out a year or two too long but they got a lot out of this core especially when you factor in the switch of head coaches and the ridiculous rule changes.

They have put together a pretty good roster now quickly.....we just have to give it time to come together.

You guys act so ****** brand new here. How can fans who have seen this **** time and time again act so dumb about it? Be grateful that this team is run as well as it is. They have a way of doing things for a reason because it ****** works. BTW the last ten Super Bowl winning teams not only did not repeat but a number of them missed the playoffs or lost their first playoff game.

It's HARD TO WIN IN THE NFL.

Be glad the Steelers got three Super Bowl appearances and two victories out of their last core. With Ben in his prime they should be able to make a few more runs with him still here with this younger team. You have to be patient though and let it develop. If you put things into perspective and be realistic there is no reason for you to be this ****** angry and nitpicky. If they go a few more seasons and don't develop into anything worth a damn then fine......bring out your pitchforks. But for now be a rational adult and let it play out. Have respect enough to let this front office, coaches, and players show us that they are on the right track. I think they've more than earned that. You sound like ****** Lions fan or something. Like you've never seen how a consistent winning franchise operates. Don't talk **** to us because we have enough sense to know what we're looking at and that we're patient.
 
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Lewis's first 4 years: 45 games, 120 tackles, 1 int, 29 PD (23 in last year);
Allen's first 3 years, 44 games, 121 tackles, 4 int (1 for TD), 23 PD
 
I'm getting close...

its what its become coolie.. I don't have much love for Tomlin.. but this **** is every day everythread... its no wonder posters are fleeing like rats on the titanic.

I love this board and I really enjoy posting here......but it's clear that a lot of the really knowledgable and dedicated posters who used to post here have just left all together. A lot of those guys really taught me how to appreciate and watch the game of football differently and it made me really appreciate this board and enjoy coming here. We're such a lucky fan base that we have had this level of performance to breakdown and discuss. But these chicken little nutcases are ruining this board. There's no two ways about it. I hope this isn't a permanent thing and some sense can get through......but who knows....maybe not. I'm going to try to hang on and hope it doesn't get too much worse.
 
I love this board and I really enjoy posting here......but it's clear that a lot of the really knowledgable and dedicated posters who used to post here have just left all together. A lot of those guys really taught me how to appreciate and watch the game of football differently and it made me really appreciate this board and enjoy coming here. We're such a lucky fan base that we have had this level of performance to breakdown and discuss. But these chicken little nutcases are ruining this board.

Exactly how I feel about the cheerleaders who throw a fit anytime it's suggested that Jarvis Jones isn't Deebo 2.0.

It's funny; in fact, several of the recent departures stated they were leaving for the very same reason I just stated: the whiners who can't handle any Steeler criticism and stifle every goddamn opinion that isn't an optimistic one. Feel free to check it out for yourself; several have voiced exactly that as their reasoning for leaving. I know TMC and dobre explicitly stated they were leaving because the flag-waving "Steelarz R Purfect" Club has taken over the board and tried their best to put a halt to any critique of the team. In other words: you. Sorry to ka-pow your little dreamworld, but it's posters like you who have run them off.

"Some sense can get through".. LOL, no kidding.. when will we wake up and realize this is The Golden Age of the Pittsburgh Steelers? I'm gonna come to my senses and start buying Marcus Gilbert memorabilia now.

I'm all for optimism. But for the love of ****, pretending against all logic that this team is right where it needs to be AND calling me an idiot for thinking otherwise is very, very stupid. Almost as stupid as claiming Keenan Lewis isn't that good, in an effort to prove that Cortez Allen is a superstar.

I'm going to try to hang on and hope it doesn't get too much worse.

Please, please keep me posted on your progress. I'm absolutely dangling off the edge of my seat.
 
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Lewis's first 4 years: 45 games, 120 tackles, 1 int, 29 PD (23 in last year);
Allen's first 3 years, 44 games, 121 tackles, 4 int (1 for TD), 23 PD

Thank you...yet these message board coaches think they know what's best for the team.
 
Lewis's first 4 years: 45 games, 120 tackles, 1 int, 29 PD (23 in last year);
Allen's first 3 years, 44 games, 121 tackles, 4 int (1 for TD), 23 PD

Brandon Boykin, 2013: 47 tackles, 6 INT (1 for TD), 17 PD
Logan Ryan, 2013: 47 tackles, 5 INT (1 for TD), 10 PD
Patrick Peterson, 2013: 42 tackles, 3 INT (0 for TD), 13 PD
Darrelle Revis, 2013: 50 tackles, 2 INT (0 for TD), 11 PD

If CB stats tell the story, then the Cardinals and Patriots have wasted a lot of money on those two relative scrubs, Peterson and Revis. Boykin and Ryan are the true superstars I guess.

Luckily for them, that's not the case. Typically, the better CBs are thrown at less and accumulate fewer stats. Hence, an incredibly inconsistent CB like DeAngelo Hall crushes Darrelle Revis, arguably the game's best CB, in stats.
 
Exactly how I feel about the cheerleaders who throw a fit anytime it's suggested that Jarvis Jones isn't Deebo 2.0.

It's funny; in fact, several of the recent departures stated they were leaving for the very same reason I just stated: the whiners who can't handle any Steeler criticism and stifle every goddamn opinion that isn't an optimistic one. Feel free to check it out for yourself; several have voiced exactly that as their reasoning for leaving. I know TMC and dobre explicitly stated they were leaving because the flag-waving "Steelarz R Purfect" Club has taken over the board and tried their best to put a halt to any critique of the team. In other words: you. Sorry to ka-pow your little dreamworld, but it's posters like you who have run them off.

"Some sense can get through".. LOL, no kidding.. when will we wake up and realize this is The Golden Age of the Pittsburgh Steelers? I'm gonna come to my senses and start buying Marcus Gilbert memorabilia now.

I'm all for optimism. But for the love of ****, pretending against all logic that this team is right where it needs to be AND calling me an idiot for thinking otherwise is very, very stupid. Almost as stupid as claiming Keenan Lewis isn't that good, in an effort to prove that Cortez Allen is a superstar.



Please, please keep me posted on your progress. I'm absolutely dangling off the edge of my seat.

I never said Keenan Lewis wasn't any good. I said he wasn't much better than what is here. Stop putting words in my mouth. And I'm not a rah rah against all logic cheerleader. I just believe in the direction that the Steelers are going and I'm willing to see it play out. Go read my previous post that you ignored and tell me that anyone would want to leave the board over that. I feel the same way you do about the overboard criticism as you do about the overboard cheerleading. I'm not overstating the talent on this team or comparing Jarvis Jones to James Harrison. You are. In your attempt to try and flip the script on me you are trying to put your spin on what you would like to make me out to be. All I am doing is supporting the Steelers and being cautiously optimistic about the future. Will there be some pitfalls? Yes. But there is some really good talent on this roster. Some of you guys in you **** throwing daze fail to acknowledge that because it would ruin your bandwagon of arrogance. You want so bad to be right about the Steelers being in quicksand that you won't even give credit where it is due when things turn around.

The only proof I need that your post is full of **** is that Dri Archer thread. That **** is ridiculous. Utterly ridiculous. Show me a thread like that with posters calling every draft pick player a future Hall of Famer.

You do realize that there is this thing called progress and when it is not being made the team has to make moves to ensure that there is more made. Mike Munchak hasn't even got to coach a entire season of OL for this team before you guys are ready to **** on these lineman and call them useless and unworthy of contract extensions.

There are posters who go overboard on both sides but right now the most ridiculous ones are by far the chicken littles. The majority of you guys aren't even giving rational reasoning to support your ranting. You're just repeating the same stupid drivel over and over about how awful player X is and how coach Y needs to be fired and how this team is headed for a **** storm.

Keep on patronizing and being a dick. That is working out marvelously for you.
 
Brandon Boykin, 2013: 47 tackles, 6 INT (1 for TD), 17 PD
Logan Ryan, 2013: 47 tackles, 5 INT (1 for TD), 10 PD
Patrick Peterson, 2013: 42 tackles, 3 INT (0 for TD), 13 PD
Darrelle Revis, 2013: 50 tackles, 2 INT (0 for TD), 11 PD

If CB stats tell the story, then the Cardinals and Patriots have wasted a lot of money on those two relative scrubs, Peterson and Revis. Boykin and Ryan are the true superstars I guess.

Luckily for them, that's not the case. Typically, the better CBs are thrown at less and accumulate fewer stats. Hence, an incredibly inconsistent CB like DeAngelo Hall crushes Darrelle Revis, arguably the game's best CB, in stats.

Might I add that the Steelers corners play a zone scheme that doesn't lend itself to bump and run style man corner play and demands sound tackling above all else. There is a reason the Steelers haven't drafted a 1st round corner since Chad Scott in 1997. You generally won't see a corner in this system with a ton of picks. They like to develop these late round guys because of how they use them in the system. It makes no sense to invest a high draft pick in a position that you can get a skill set for later in the draft. If they happen to find a can't miss prospect where the value highly outweighs another position that they value higher draft picks for then they will more than likely draft that player. This year was a perfect example. People were calling for Dennard or Kyle Fuller in RD1 and even if Fuller was there the Steelers would have probably draft Shazier anyway and they obviously didn't value Dennard over Shazier.
 
I'm not overstating the talent on this team or comparing Jarvis Jones to James Harrison. You are. In your attempt to try and flip the script on me you are trying to put your spin on what you would like to make me out to be. All I am doing is supporting the Steelers and being cautiously optimistic about the future. Will there be some pitfalls? Yes. But there is some really good talent on this roster. Some of you guys in you **** throwing daze fail to acknowledge that because it would ruin your bandwagon of arrogance.

LOL. Where's the PROVEN talent? It's not in the front seven, it's not in the secondary, and it's not in the running game. We're sitting on ONE receiver who's caught more than six passes as a Steeler; I guess that's a PROVEN strength too, right?

This is what I'm talking about. You want everyone to believe that guys like Jarvis and Worilds and Cortez and Wheaton are all an inch away from greatness, and we just have to be patient. As though it's established fact that every young player we have will break out any minute now. (I mean, that MUST be what you're expecting, that our young players are studly. Because the established vets are aging and losing steps.) Then someone gives a five-paragraph post that analyzes Jarvis' horrible game film and awful rookie season and points out our lack of pass rush, and they're told they're wrong, not a true fan, etc. "Of course we're loaded with talent!" Well, just saying it doesn't make it so.

I invite you to outline for me the sheer blinding talent all over our roster. Running game is poor, receiving corps outside of Brown is entirely unproven and in the midst of a complete rebuild, o-line has been **** for years and looked like **** again in the preseason, and every single level of the defense has looked worse than our worst nightmares. Ya know, just like it did ALL of last season, and much of 2012, and some of 2011. Run defense has been comically bad by our standards, and the pass defense gets shredded far too often. Very little pass rush. Little depth at CB. There are a few pieces I like - Heyward and Shazier, specifically - and Timmons is a semi-dependable player. But if you want me to believe our defense is just a nut hair away from greatness, I'm going to look at you like you're an idiot and ask where your confidence comes from.

But I'm not a real fan, because I don't have faith in the guys YOU have faith in.

You want so bad to be right about the Steelers being in quicksand that you won't even give credit where it is due when things turn around.

Some brilliant psychoanalysis there, but it's just your own ignorant bullshit. Tell me more about what's in my head, Doctor.

The only proof I need that your post is full of **** is that Dri Archer thread. That **** is ridiculous. Utterly ridiculous. Show me a thread like that with posters calling every draft pick player a future Hall of Famer.

OK: the Dri Archer thread. That was quick. For every poster like me who claimed Archer would struggle to find a place in the NFL, there were about 8-10 posters who told us he was a faster Darren Sproles and would make our offense explode off the charts.

You do realize that there is this thing called progress and when it is not being made the team has to make moves to ensure that there is more made.

Right, and your problem is that I call out the lack of progress.

Mike Munchak hasn't even got to coach a entire season of OL for this team before you guys are ready to **** on these lineman and call them useless and unworthy of contract extensions.

LOL. We've seen the vast majority of this line play together for several years. Some have been around through, I've lost count: how many different line coaches? Yeah, any day now Marcus Gilbert and Ramon Foster are going to take the world by storm.

The majority of you guys aren't even giving rational reasoning to support your ranting. You're just repeating the same stupid drivel over and over about how awful player X is and how coach Y needs to be fired and how this team is headed for a **** storm.

I don't know where this comes from. I don't see much, if any, analysis or reasoning from the Cheerleader Club. The majority of "you guys" are doing nothing but spouting off one-line posts about how THIS is the year for Marcus Gilbert, or posting "I just tried to give you karma!!" every other post.

Keep on patronizing and being a dick. That is working out marvelously for you.

Doing fine over here, actually. I'm not the one whose whole world explodes every time someone calls out Cortez ******* Allen.
 
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Might I add that the Steelers corners play a zone scheme that doesn't lend itself to bump and run style man corner play and demands sound tackling above all else. There is a reason the Steelers haven't drafted a 1st round corner since Chad Scott in 1997. You generally won't see a corner in this system with a ton of picks. They like to develop these late round guys because of how they use them in the system. It makes no sense to invest a high draft pick in a position that you can get a skill set for later in the draft. If they happen to find a can't miss prospect where the value highly outweighs another position that they value higher draft picks for then they will more than likely draft that player. This year was a perfect example. People were calling for Dennard or Kyle Fuller in RD1 and even if Fuller was there the Steelers would have probably draft Shazier anyway and they obviously didn't value Dennard over Shazier.

Exactly. Using CB stats is a ridiculous measure for many reasons, including scheme. I remember when Nnamdi Asomugha was arguably the league's best corner in Oakland; he picked off 1-2 passes a year but erased a chunk of the field. The stats would tell you he was worthless; reality told us he was dominant.

I'm not a proponent of taking CBs early, especially in our scheme. But our CB cupboard has been pretty bare for years and the only moves we've made have been drafting mid-round turds, most of whom never played a significant snap for us, and letting Keenan Lewis walk for fair market value.
 
Exactly. Using CB stats is a ridiculous measure for many reasons, including scheme. I remember when Nnamdi Asomugha was arguably the league's best corner in Oakland; he picked off 1-2 passes a year but erased a chunk of the field. The stats would tell you he was worthless; reality told us he was dominant.

I'm not a proponent of taking CBs early, especially in our scheme. But our CB cupboard has been pretty bare for years and the only moves we've made have been drafting mid-round turds, most of whom never played a significant snap for us, and letting Keenan Lewis walk for fair market value.

I think there was something else behind the scenes with that Keenan Lewis situation beyond his asking price. I think the Steelers wanted him gone and out of that locker room.
 
We might also consider the Steelers didn't have $26M in cap space when they were trying to sign Lewis.
 
I wonder if this board is still "worth" 200 k, or nah?
 
Some of yinz SMH

you would have bitched next year if they let Allen walk

then if you look at the price of some of the starting corners around the league most would agree Steeler didn't overpay.

I could understand if Allen was on the tail end of his career, but he isn't. You have Gay and Allen, a aging Ike and a bunch of scrubs.

Yeah if I was a GM that move was a no brainer.
 
Why do you guys even bother to watch the games if you're going to ***** about 95% of the roster......every ******* coach and hype up players who don't even play here anymore, some of which aren't even playing drastically better than what we have here now. (Keenan Lewis)

Lewis was terrific for the Saints last season. He's definitely better than what the Steelers have now.
 
Brandon Boykin, 2013: 47 tackles, 6 INT (1 for TD), 17 PD
Logan Ryan, 2013: 47 tackles, 5 INT (1 for TD), 10 PD
Patrick Peterson, 2013: 42 tackles, 3 INT (0 for TD), 13 PD
Darrelle Revis, 2013: 50 tackles, 2 INT (0 for TD), 11 PD

If CB stats tell the story, then the Cardinals and Patriots have wasted a lot of money on those two relative scrubs, Peterson and Revis. Boykin and Ryan are the true superstars I guess.

Luckily for them, that's not the case. Typically, the better CBs are thrown at less and accumulate fewer stats. Hence, an incredibly inconsistent CB like DeAngelo Hall crushes Darrelle Revis, arguably the game's best CB, in stats.

Looks to me that those stats for Lewis were all when he was a Steeler. He played opposite of Ike for one year, and spot duty the others. Pretty much on par for Cortez. I think in THIS instance, you CAN use stats to compare these two corners as they played the exact same position for the exact same team, with the exact same supporting cast around them. One could argue that most of the passes were going to go their way with Ike on the other side in our scheme. I understand your point, but that can really only be made if these the two stats brought up weren't equal. Your example of Hall and Revis being the prime example. Two different teams, two different schemes, different supporting casts, etc. It makes it hard to compare players like Peterson and Sherman (two of the highest paid CB's). Cortez and Keenan however are easier to compare because of the situation. In this example, stats do help tell the story.

It's one reason the Steelers let Keenan go and went with Cortez. Cortez showed better ball skillz, produced more turnovers in less snaps in Keenans last year with us. I think it's also pretty fair to assume that when they made their evaluation, they weren't expecting Cortez to get hurt the very next year.
 
Brandon Boykin, 2013: 47 tackles, 6 INT (1 for TD), 17 PD
Logan Ryan, 2013: 47 tackles, 5 INT (1 for TD), 10 PD
Patrick Peterson, 2013: 42 tackles, 3 INT (0 for TD), 13 PD
Darrelle Revis, 2013: 50 tackles, 2 INT (0 for TD), 11 PD

If CB stats tell the story, then the Cardinals and Patriots have wasted a lot of money on those two relative scrubs, Peterson and Revis. Boykin and Ryan are the true superstars I guess.

Luckily for them, that's not the case. Typically, the better CBs are thrown at less and accumulate fewer stats. Hence, an incredibly inconsistent CB like DeAngelo Hall crushes Darrelle Revis, arguably the game's best CB, in stats.

Somehow, I knew that wouldn't be good enough for you. The bolded part sounds pretty. In the 2012 season, Lewis was 2nd in PD. That is good work for a DB, especially a young one. Although, it isn't a stat that you accumulate because QB's are avoiding you. Is it? In all of those Passes Defensed, he couldn't come up with ONE int.

For what it is worth, Richard Sherman had one more PD that year than Lewis.

We needed a D that could generate Turnovers. We weren't getting it and we let a DB go who didn't seem to be any better at catching than Ike. Last year, 5 years into the league, he finally comes up with some INT's. YAY!!
 
Somehow, I knew that wouldn't be good enough for you.

Somehow, I knew you'd whine at me when facts blew up your 15 seconds of research.

We needed a D that could generate Turnovers. We weren't getting it and we let a DB go who didn't seem to be any better at catching than Ike. Last year, 5 years into the league, he finally comes up with some INT's. YAY!!

Oh. The team must have seen something special, turnover-wise, in Allen's two career INTs. Way, way more impressive than Lewis' one. And he rewarded them with all of TWO more last year! Impressive.
 
Somehow, I knew you'd whine at me when facts blew up your 15 seconds of research.

Oh. The team must have seen something special, turnover-wise, in Allen's two career INTs. Way, way more impressive than Lewis' one. And he rewarded them with all of TWO more last year! Impressive.

yeah, "blew up'. LOL. Would Lewis have been second in the league in PD if QB's were avoiding him? Honestly, it seems illogical to believe so, but there may be something about the stat I don't understand.

Interwebs is not your friend today. Allen had 4, not two, career int's in 1 less year than the great almighty Allen had in 4 years.
 
see idioteque... (I used his name he should really like that), Most of us , yes im speaking generally, agree the team isn't doing well ,, or near where it should be.. , we hope Jarvis can get better than his rookie year,, but aren't ready to write him off just yet. In the back of my mind I think Colbert is ******* up with the contracts he is making. We play game 1 of the season today and I would like to be optimisitic, even though the preseason,, like last year showed me we aren't very good.

I understand all the reality that is the dri archer pick, tomlins record,, jarvis' lack of sacks / pressure, not signing or attempting to sign keenan lewis... etc..

But I don't rant on it incessantly here in the forums. The only time I think I ever did that was with Kordell Stewart back in the day when we were all calling for his head.

I spoke with TMC actually. He said it wasn't that he was butt hurt about people not agreeing with him. It was more about the fact he can go elsewhere and talk football and not be attacked. He can share his opinion and form one without the Youre not a fan... Youre an armchair guru... what have you, (insert flaming comment here).

( And you should really like this part.) after having to read franco's constant indictment of Tomlin,,,,, we have you Trolling it all stirring it up on purpose,, quoting evertying ,, picking everthing apart,,, and waiting patiently,,, ALLL for your own amusement...

Do you need a title, or something.. like SNARKIEST Maybe coolie could get that done for ya.
 
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