Covid Vaccine

[Confluence]

No one can make you take the shot. Don't I have the right to keep people who are more likely to be infected out of my establishment? "The unvaccinated" is not a race or ethnicity, it's a group someone chooses to be a part of. You want to eat in my restaurant? Get vaxxed. You don't want to get vaxxed? That's ok. Go eat somewhere else. Your choice, my choice.

If there was an active measles outbreak near my business, I might also consider requiring you to show that you're vaxxed. It's happened before and no one started screaming "Nazis".

Disney Parks Now Require Immunization Record for Admittance | GomerBlog

Make sure to bring your immunization record or letter from a physician stating legitimate reasons for not being vaccinated if you want to go to Disney

gomerblog.com

I learned today that people like me, vaccinated for measles, can spread measles to thos unvaccinated. So who would you choose to exclude and why?

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

I have my own personal experiment brewing. Details to follow. Stay tuned.

OK, so a long post and full disclosure as I don't hide anything.

My son and his girlfriend came home from school to visit last Tuesday. They had been in Chicago at Lalapallooza, so I made them get tested. They were negative.

He is the one who had Covid July 2020.

My youngest son and wife had Covid in May 2021, caught at a wedding we all attended.

Well last week, the day my oldest son came home, the youngest had been experiencing cold symptoms for 3 days. Finally on Wednesday I said go get tested. He objected, he said Dad, all my friends are sick too and they have the vaccine." I said I don't care, go get tested. Hours later they called him. Positive again. After just 3 months. We were all stunned.

Reinfection rates among the naturally immune hovers around 1%. He's one of the unlucky 1%.

So my experiment. I have now been exposed to COVID 3 times in my home, and I've not gotten it. So I got tested the same day he did (negative) and got an antibody test (blood drawn). Was going to take a couple days to get the results.

In the meantime, of his five friends, several went and got tested. 2 did not. 3 of them...all vaccinated...were positive.

So data point one...take it for what it is worth, but in his cluster of 6 friends, one got it who had had it before (my son)...3 got it who were vaccinated.

His symptoms were gone in 2 days, nothing more than a mild cold. Zero effect, never had a headache.

Friday rolls around. 11AM I start feeling achy. I'm like oh ****. By 1, clear fever/chills. 3:15 I get a rapid test and get the results of my antibody test. Negative. I have not had Covid. Hugely disappointed.

I come home, crawl into bed after showering...so hot, so feverish...start overloading on vitamins and zinc and taking Tylenol and Advil alternating to control fever. Everyone's like Dad's now got it. On Wednesday, when the youngest was sick, I was essentially hugging him fitting him for a weightlifting belt. I was intimately around him all day for 3 days of symptoms. We even play tussled/wrestled one evening.

I lay in bed, usually the results come in the hour. It wasn't until 7:30 I get a text to log into the patient portal and see my results. I'm like WTF? They CALL you if you are positive. I log in....my rapid test results - negative. No Covid. I'm just flabbergasted. Like, no way...I have all the symptoms of a flu - headache, fever, coughing, congestion.
Friday, Saturday and Sunday, I ran a consistent 101 fever, feeling down and out. Just tired and achy and feverish. But who gets the flu in August here?

Anyway, today I'm just about over it. Still dragging. Not convinced I didn't get Covid and it was a false negative.

But I had a very interesting discussion with the doctor last week about my son's results and was curious how I simply have not gotten it being exposed to them all, eating from their food when infected, etc, etc.

I told her about my daily regimen of Vitamin C, Vitamin D, Zinc tablets, a probiotic, and nightly a zinc nose spray (Zicam). She said that's it confidently. I said wait how? She said, and it made no sense to me, that taking those block your "receptors" from catching the Covid virus or something similar. Any medical professionals able to decipher this? Paging @ZonaBurgh . Receptors?

Next data point: She raved about the effectiveness of doing this every day. So all of you out there who've discussed these vitamin cocktails, keep doing them.

Third data point: The doctor, who is the mother of one his former high school friends, told him point blank, this isn't a big deal. You've gotten Delta, you'll have the sniffles for a few days. It's not to fear. She did advise quarantining, which he has done 100%.

Finally, I'm still not convinced I didn't get Covid. I'm gonna get tested again to validate. I think it was Covid. Regardless, as an asthmatic, I was nervous. Whatever I had led to coughs, but nothing substantial. I'll get the results and share later.

Or maybe I caught one of those rare flu viruses that have evaded us for a year. Who knows...yet.

Now, let Floggy and Tiblio and the rest try to flame me for being a complete, utter, reckless, danger to society lol. And when you tools do, don't forget to comment on my son getting it again while 3 of his vaccinated friends did. You're gonna say he/we should have been vaccinated. Didn't help them.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

Traditionally developed vaccines that show up after millions get hospitalized and die > quickly but responsibly developed vaccines based on decades old technology that are currently saving lives every day. Gotcha.

Those vaccines should have been used on those who needed it. The elderly, the infirm, the sick. The rest of us can wait.

 

[Confluence]

It's different because it's more contagious, more deadly and causes more long term effects to people than the flu.

And at the same time, the Wuhan virus is more like the flu than any other grouping of ailments; essentially indistinguishable to most infected.

 

[Confluence]

It doesn't. I can choose not to go. And if it's my restaurant, I can choose not to allow people who are more likely to be infected with a contagious disease to enter.

People with the flu?

 

[oneforthebus]

I learned today that people like me, vaccinated for measles, can spread measles to thos unvaccinated. So who would you choose to exclude and why?

Yes you can but like most infectious diseases when there are large portions of people vaccinated the disease does not have as many welcoming hosts to hop around to and spread. That's how vaccination works. Why do you think large outbreaks tend to be among the unvaccinated?

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

Vaccination reduces chance of infection by 50%. Agreed.

The government should tell us that. Instead, we get the same stupid old man wandering around in his pajamas, licking ice cream and children, and telling us to "get the vaccine to end the pandemic."

This. This has been my main beef. We have been sold a lot of PR that just hasn't been wholly true and we just want the truth.

Lots of stuff out there that is misleading. Like Novant Health still has a video out there circulating that says things like



There's nothing false in this statement, it just leaves the viewer without data like how effective is it in preventing Covid?



Aka, get the vax, you won't spread the virus.

Just no longer true.

Before someone accuses me again of claiming they are intentionally deceiving us, I'm not. I just wish this country would be more forthright with the data they have. It gets whitewashed a lot. See YouTube, Twitter, FaceBook, the CDC's waffling guidance, etc, and on and on.

 

[Confluence]

What I wrote is the truth, as much as it hurts to be confronted with it. Since you demanded I do so, I removed my comment.

Vile Comrade Tibs, useful idiot

 

[Confluence]

Yes you can but like most infectious diseases when there are large portions of people vaccinated the disease does not have as many welcoming hosts to hop around to and spread. That's how vaccination works. Why do you think large outbreaks tend to be among the unvaccinated?

Because a vaccinated carrier transmitted it to them....how else would it get to them when most are vaccinated?

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

Why do you think large outbreaks tend to be among the unvaccinated?

You're just gonna hate hearing about Israel.

Here are the ABSOLUTE case numbers in Israel, not per 100K.



Please ignore where it says "at a rate of 100K" it IS NOT. Their charting system doesn't repopulate correctly. You can see below, I click on "By absolute number" - the graph changes, the header does not. These numbers above are absolute.




In Israel, their cases are predominantly among the vaccinated. Especially the fully vaccinated.

I know, I know....math.

 

[Ironcitysteelers]

I going to say CA and or NYC first.

 

[oneforthebus]

OK, so a long post and full disclosure as I don't hide anything.

My son and his girlfriend came home from school to visit last Tuesday. They had been in Chicago at Lalapallooza, so I made them get tested. They were negative.

He is the one who had Covid July 2020.

My youngest son and wife had Covid in May 2021, caught at a wedding we all attended.

Well last week, the day my oldest son came home, the youngest had been experiencing cold symptoms for 3 days. Finally on Wednesday I said go get tested. He objected, he said Dad, all my friends are sick too and they have the vaccine." I said I don't care, go get tested. Hours later they called him. Positive again. After just 3 months. We were all stunned.

Reinfection rates among the naturally immune hovers around 1%. He's one of the unlucky 1%.

So my experiment. I have now been exposed to COVID 3 times in my home, and I've not gotten it. So I got tested the same day he did (negative) and got an antibody test (blood drawn). Was going to take a couple days to get the results.

In the meantime, of his five friends, several went and got tested. 2 did not. 3 of them...all vaccinated...were positive.

So data point one...take it for what it is worth, but in his cluster of 6 friends, one got it who had had it before (my son)...3 got it who were vaccinated.

His symptoms were gone in 2 days, nothing more than a mild cold. Zero effect, never had a headache.

Friday rolls around. 11AM I start feeling achy. I'm like oh ****. By 1, clear fever/chills. 3:15 I get a rapid test and get the results of my antibody test. Negative. I have not had Covid. Hugely disappointed.

I come home, crawl into bed after showering...so hot, so feverish...start overloading on vitamins and zinc and taking Tylenol and Advil alternating to control fever. Everyone's like Dad's now got it. On Wednesday, when the youngest was sick, I was essentially hugging him fitting him for a weightlifting belt. I was intimately around him all day for 3 days of symptoms. We even play tussled/wrestled one evening.

I lay in bed, usually the results come in the hour. It wasn't until 7:30 I get a text to log into the patient portal and see my results. I'm like WTF? They CALL you if you are positive. I log in....my rapid test results - negative. No Covid. I'm just flabbergasted. Like, no way...I have all the symptoms of a flu - headache, fever, coughing, congestion.
Friday, Saturday and Sunday, I ran a consistent 101 fever, feeling down and out. Just tired and achy and feverish. But who gets the flu in August here?

Anyway, today I'm just about over it. Still dragging. Not convinced I didn't get Covid and it was a false negative.

But I had a very interesting discussion with the doctor last week about my son's results and was curious how I simply have not gotten it being exposed to them all, eating from their food when infected, etc, etc.

I told her about my daily regimen of Vitamin C, Vitamin D, Zinc tablets, a probiotic, and nightly a zinc nose spray (Zicam). She said that's it confidently. I said wait how? She said, and it made no sense to me, that taking those block your "receptors" from catching the Covid virus or something similar. Any medical professionals able to decipher this? Paging @ZonaBurgh . Receptors?

Next data point: She raved about the effectiveness of doing this every day. So all of you out there who've discussed these vitamin cocktails, keep doing them.

Third data point: The doctor, who is the mother of one his former high school friends, told him point blank, this isn't a big deal. You've gotten Delta, you'll have the sniffles for a few days. It's not to fear. She did advise quarantining, which he has done 100%.

Finally, I'm still not convinced I didn't get Covid. I'm gonna get tested again to validate. I think it was Covid. Regardless, as an asthmatic, I was nervous. Whatever I had led to coughs, but nothing substantial. I'll get the results and share later.

Or maybe I caught one of those rare flu viruses that have evaded us for a year. Who knows...yet.

Now, let Floggy and Tiblio and the rest try to flame me for being a complete, utter, reckless, danger to society lol. And when you tools do, don't forget to comment on my son getting it again while 3 of his vaccinated friends did. You're gonna say he/we should have been vaccinated. Didn't help them.

Or perhaps it prevented one or more of them from getting seriously ill. Probably not, because they're young. But it's possible. Perhaps your son's previous infection also caused him to get a milder case. Who knows?

You're just gonna hate hearing about Israel.

Here are the ABSOLUTE case numbers in Israel, not per 100K.

View attachment 5995

Please ignore where it says "at a rate of 100K" it IS NOT. Their charting system doesn't repopulate correctly. You can see below, I click on "By absolute number" - the graph changes, the header does not. These numbers above are absolute.


View attachment 5996

In Israel, their cases are predominantly among the vaccinated. Especially the fully vaccinated.

I know, I know....math.

I was referring to measles in that post. Measles outbreaks here are almost exclusively amongst the unvaccinated.

Yes you're right, math. You can see in the the 12-15 range where vaccination rates are low, most cases are in the unvaccinated. As you get into older groups where almost all of the people are vaccinated, the percentage of cases that are in the vaccinated will be larger. Because there are overwhelmingly larger numbers of them.

 

[oneforthebus]

While we're sharing anecdotes, I have about 20 co-workers. All vaccinated. All of our elderly clients in independent and assisted living, vaccinated. Everyone in my family, vaccinated. Most in our extended families, vaccinated. A bunch of ladies I play tennis with of varying ages, all vaccinated. Eat out all the time, my son's been to the beach with a houseful of kids a few times, my daughters have also traveled and stayed with friends.

No one's gotten covid.
No one's had any adverse effects from the vaccines aside from feeling crappy for a day or two.
No one's been in the hospital with covid.
No one's died of covid.

I'm off to dinner. Have a great night everyone!

 

[Troglodyte]

The New York Times provided this data in the largest contact tracing study done in 2020. Much has been written about it since.

1.4% of Covid was caught in restaurants as an example. Over 74% at home. Less than 1% caught in restaurants. Go educate yourself.

What New York's Contact Tracing Data Show

"Living room spread" is a major cause of COVID.

spectrumlocalnews.com

Your hero Andrew Cuomo came out last year and stated that 66% of COVID positive patients came from people sheltered at home, who never left their homes.

New Survey: 66% of New Hospitalizations Statewide Are People Staying Home

3% of new cases in NYC had been using public transportation.

www.ny1.com

Obtuse is forgetting as much data you do that has previously been presented to you.

Studies since have shown you are safer at a Walmart or a corporate office building because they have better HVAC systems which move air in and out more rapidly.

There's lots to learn Floggy, if you'd just research.

So what’s your point? People should have gone homeless?

Answer the question. You continue to think of Covid as random, it just happens. That’s obtuse, at best.

 

[Ironcitysteelers]

OK, so a long post and full disclosure as I don't hide anything.

My son and his girlfriend came home from school to visit last Tuesday. They had been in Chicago at Lalapallooza, so I made them get tested. They were negative.

He is the one who had Covid July 2020.

My youngest son and wife had Covid in May 2021, caught at a wedding we all attended.

Well last week, the day my oldest son came home, the youngest had been experiencing cold symptoms for 3 days. Finally on Wednesday I said go get tested. He objected, he said Dad, all my friends are sick too and they have the vaccine." I said I don't care, go get tested. Hours later they called him. Positive again. After just 3 months. We were all stunned.

Reinfection rates among the naturally immune hovers around 1%. He's one of the unlucky 1%.

So my experiment. I have now been exposed to COVID 3 times in my home, and I've not gotten it. So I got tested the same day he did (negative) and got an antibody test (blood drawn). Was going to take a couple days to get the results.

In the meantime, of his five friends, several went and got tested. 2 did not. 3 of them...all vaccinated...were positive.

So data point one...take it for what it is worth, but in his cluster of 6 friends, one got it who had had it before (my son)...3 got it who were vaccinated.

His symptoms were gone in 2 days, nothing more than a mild cold. Zero effect, never had a headache.

Friday rolls around. 11AM I start feeling achy. I'm like oh ****. By 1, clear fever/chills. 3:15 I get a rapid test and get the results of my antibody test. Negative. I have not had Covid. Hugely disappointed.

I come home, crawl into bed after showering...so hot, so feverish...start overloading on vitamins and zinc and taking Tylenol and Advil alternating to control fever. Everyone's like Dad's now got it. On Wednesday, when the youngest was sick, I was essentially hugging him fitting him for a weightlifting belt. I was intimately around him all day for 3 days of symptoms. We even play tussled/wrestled one evening.

I lay in bed, usually the results come in the hour. It wasn't until 7:30 I get a text to log into the patient portal and see my results. I'm like WTF? They CALL you if you are positive. I log in....my rapid test results - negative. No Covid. I'm just flabbergasted. Like, no way...I have all the symptoms of a flu - headache, fever, coughing, congestion.
Friday, Saturday and Sunday, I ran a consistent 101 fever, feeling down and out. Just tired and achy and feverish. But who gets the flu in August here?

Anyway, today I'm just about over it. Still dragging. Not convinced I didn't get Covid and it was a false negative.

But I had a very interesting discussion with the doctor last week about my son's results and was curious how I simply have not gotten it being exposed to them all, eating from their food when infected, etc, etc.

I told her about my daily regimen of Vitamin C, Vitamin D, Zinc tablets, a probiotic, and nightly a zinc nose spray (Zicam). She said that's it confidently. I said wait how? She said, and it made no sense to me, that taking those block your "receptors" from catching the Covid virus or something similar. Any medical professionals able to decipher this? Paging @ZonaBurgh . Receptors?

Next data point: She raved about the effectiveness of doing this every day. So all of you out there who've discussed these vitamin cocktails, keep doing them.

Third data point: The doctor, who is the mother of one his former high school friends, told him point blank, this isn't a big deal. You've gotten Delta, you'll have the sniffles for a few days. It's not to fear. She did advise quarantining, which he has done 100%.

Finally, I'm still not convinced I didn't get Covid. I'm gonna get tested again to validate. I think it was Covid. Regardless, as an asthmatic, I was nervous. Whatever I had led to coughs, but nothing substantial. I'll get the results and share later.

Or maybe I caught one of those rare flu viruses that have evaded us for a year. Who knows...yet.

Now, let Floggy and Tiblio and the rest try to flame me for being a complete, utter, reckless, danger to society lol. And when you tools do, don't forget to comment on my son getting it again while 3 of his vaccinated friends did. You're gonna say he/we should have been vaccinated. Didn't help them.

You got it. Period.

I never had a “positive” test, I knew I had it. I don’t believe in coincidences. When this **** popped off I was at a big school event. Kid (10) had a minor heck cough that’s it. Days later wife is bed ridden. She always sick with sinus stuff but stated “my chest is on fire”. Next day BLAM. I’m hit like a truck.

I do not get sick. Not some macho thing but I do not. I go to the gym daily, I count my ******* Calories …..little over the top but the point.

no I didn’t just get the flu after twenty years. I got the rona and didn’t need a test to prove it.

hope you and fam on way to recovery, but yeah you had it bro.

 

[ZonaBurgh]

OMG!

I'm offended

Why should ICUs be filled with preventable disease?

You mean like tuberculosis, HIV, adult onset diabetes, hypertension, hyperlipidemia, those kind of preventable diseases?

 

[Troglodyte]

OK not 100%. They don't know yet how ineffective, but it appears highly ineffective. I posted this Wednesday:

https://www.steelernation.com/forums/threads/covid-vaccine.36523/post-836351

Lambda variant of COVID 'shows vaccine resistance' - Insider Paper

According to Japanese researchers, the Lambda variant of the COVID-19 is more infectious and resistant to vaccines than the original version

insiderpaper.com

According to Japanese researchers, the Lambda variant of the COVID-19, which was first identified in Peru and is now spreading throughout South America, is more infectious and resistant to vaccines than the original version of the virus that emerged from Wuhan, China.

Although it is unclear whether this variant is more dangerous than the Delta strain that is currently threatening populations in many countries, senior researcher Kei Sato of the University of Tokyo believes that “Lambda can be a potential threat to human society.”

Lambda COVID variant, showing vaccine resistance, detected in Louisiana

The Lambda variant has shown resistance to a COVID vaccine in a study, which has not yet been peer-reviewed, carried out in Tokyo, Japan.

www.newsweek.com

Research by a team from the University of Tokyo, which has not yet been peer-reviewed, found that three mutations in Lambda's spike protein help it resist neutralization by vaccine-induced antibodies.

SARS-CoV-2 Lambda variant exhibits higher infectivity and immune resistance

SARS-CoV-2 Lambda, a new variant of interest, is now spreading in some South American countries; however, its virological features and evolutionary trait remain unknown. Here we reveal that the spike protein of the Lambda variant is more infectious and it is attributed to the T76I and L452Q...

www.biorxiv.org

Lambda Variant Could Be Vaccine Resistant, Study Finds

A new study found that the Lambda variant is highly transmissible and may evade antibodies.

www.verywellhealth.com

“We're seeing a trend, which is what all of us in the scientific community expected, that the longer [COVID-19] is allowed to prevail, we're going to start getting towards vaccines that may not be efficacious against this SARS-CoV-2 viral variant,” Quigley says.

How do you stop Covid from prevailing and mutating to vaccine resistant variants, Tim?

 

[Ironcitysteelers]

How do you stop Covid from prevailing and mutating to vaccine resistant variants, Tim?

You don’t. It’s a virus.

 

[ZonaBurgh]

Ogre, Donkey and TSF were glad to learn you were not speaking of them.



Vaccination reduces chance of infection by 50%. Agreed.

The government should tell us that. Instead, we get the same stupid old man wandering around in his pajamas, licking ice cream and children, and telling us to "get the vaccine to end the pandemic."

Which is a bald-faced lie that nobody seems to confront.

A PSA we could all get behind......


"Vaccines, they're better than nothing!"*

*we reserve the right to edit our opinion

 

[ZonaBurgh]

How do you stop Covid from prevailing and mutating to vaccine resistant variants, Tim?

 

[Steelworth]

 

[Steelworth]

How do you stop Covid from prevailing and mutating to vaccine resistant variants, Tim?

You click your heels 3 times.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

Or perhaps it prevented one or more of them from getting seriously ill. Probably not, because they're young. But it's possible. Perhaps your son's previous infection also caused him to get a milder case. Who knows?

One of the reasons I posted that figure is to continue to point out this notion of breakthrough cases being rare is by the day appearing to be less so. 6 kids. 4 get the virus. 2 untested. 3 that got it are vaccinated. One that got it was unvaccinated.

Yes you're right, math. You can see in the the 12-15 range where vaccination rates are low, most cases are in the unvaccinated. As you get into older groups where almost all of the people are vaccinated, the percentage of cases that are in the vaccinated will be larger. Because there are overwhelmingly larger numbers of them.

You're right about the 12-15 age group. Jump one level. 67% of cases in the 16-19 age group are vaccinated people.

If we were talking about a country where cases were flat, I'd agree with you. We are talking about a country that is in a rapid rise in cases since the beginning of July.



If the vaccines have an efficacy rate of say 93%, that means 7% are prone to getting seriously ill, would you agree? And that 7% should remain a constant, given the vaccines provide a constant efficacy rate of 93%, agreed?

So why are the rates (not the absolute numbers) increasing like this?



One should expect a flat line. I know annually a certain % of people are going to die from heart disease. Outside of an anomaly year like last year, that % remains a fair constant year over year.

Yet these rates of vaccinated people getting seriously ill there (rates) are growing over time. Given they are vastly vaccinated, we shouldn't be seeing these spikes.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

So what’s your point? People should have gone homeless?

Answer the question. You continue to think of Covid as random, it just happens. That’s obtuse, at best.

The point is obvious, but you won't accept it. If 66% of people in NYC got COVID and they were 100% shut ins, what do you think the cause was? If 74% of covid was spread via family gatherings, and only 1% in retail stores....where do you think you are safer?

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

You got it. Period.

I never had a “positive” test, I knew I had it. I don’t believe in coincidences. When this **** popped off I was at a big school event. Kid (10) had a minor heck cough that’s it. Days later wife is bed ridden. She always sick with sinus stuff but stated “my chest is on fire”. Next day BLAM. I’m hit like a truck.

I do not get sick. Not some macho thing but I do not. I go to the gym daily, I count my ******* Calories …..little over the top but the point.

no I didn’t just get the flu after twenty years. I got the rona and didn’t need a test to prove it.

hope you and fam on way to recovery, but yeah you had it bro.

That's what I think too. I mean 4 days later, I'm still a little achy. I have not had the flu in over a decade.