Covid Vaccine

[madinsomniac]

The viral load in people who get infected is the same. You are still less likely to get infected. The vaccines are not as effective at preventing infection as with the earlier variant, but they are not completely ineffective at preventing infection. Studies so far have shown varied levels of protection against infection with delta, and also some decline in effectiveness over time, but none have showed zero effectiveness against infection.

Here's How Well COVID-19 Vaccines Work Against the Delta Variant

In the fight against the delta variant, here is how the Pfizer-BioNTech, Moderna, and Johnson & Johnson COVID-19 vaccines measure up when it comes to protection. A new study found the Moderna vaccine was 76% effective against the Delta variant, while the Pfizer vaccine was only 42% effective...

www.healthline.com

The Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine​

Due to limited research so far, trying to determine the effectiveness of each vaccine against the Delta variant remains a challenge. However, there have been promising results from multiple studies.

Study 1 and real-life data​

According to an analysis carried out by Public Health England, two doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine appeared to be about 88 percent effective against symptomatic disease and 96 percent effective against hospitalization with the Delta variant.

The same study suggested that the vaccine was approximately 80 percent effective against preventing infection from the Delta variant. Scientists came to this conclusion after analyzing 14,019 people with an infection, 166 of whom were hospitalized, in England.

Vaccines had a protective effect against infections with Delta and hospital cases were milder, the study found.

Public Health England also shared real-world data in May that solidified the importance of having a second dose of COVID-19 vaccine. The analysis suggested that a single dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine offered only about 33 percent protection against symptomatic disease.

This was a reduction from the previous 50 percent effectiveness estimated against the alpha variant.

The study also found that the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine was 88 percent effective against the Delta variant 2 weeks after the second dose.

Study 2​

A reportTrusted Source published in the journal Nature reflected the findings that a single shot of a two-dose vaccine such as Pfizer-BioNTech or AstraZeneca provided “barely” any protection.

However, researchers also reported that people who had received two doses of a vaccine had significantly more protection against infection with the Delta variant, with researchers estimating a level of 95 percent effectiveness.

The study also found that the Delta variant was less sensitive to “sera from naturally immunized individuals,” meaning people who had a prior infection may not be protected against reinfection with the Delta variant.

Study 3​

A study in Canada, meanwhile, found that two doses of a COVID-19 vaccine worked just as well against the Delta variant as it did with alpha. It has not yet been peer reviewed.

The study suggested the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine was around 87 percent effective 14 days after two doses.

Study 4​

A study in Scotland found similar results. The Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine, researchers concluded, offered “very good” protection against the Delta variant and demonstrated 79 percent effectiveness 14 days after receiving the second dose.

Study 5​

A study in Israel was more of an outlier and found that the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine did not offer as high protection as previously estimated. The study suggested the vaccine was about 64 percent effective against preventing infection with the Delta variant and 64 percent effective against symptomatic illness after two doses.

But scientists have pointed out that the full data has not yet been released, and it may have included asymptomatic infections picked up by Israel’s surveillance program.

Study 6​

A study that analyzed vaccine effectiveness in India, where the Delta variant first emerged, found that the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine was 88 percent effective against the Delta variant after two doses.

Effectiveness was considerably lower after one vaccine dose, however, at approximately 36 percent.

Study 7​

A U.S. study, which has not yet been peer-reviewed, suggests that the effectiveness of the Pfizer vaccine has decreased against the Delta variant.

The data found that the vaccine offered 42 percent protection against symptomatic infection with the Delta variant in July, compared to over 76 percent in January.

The study also noted that those vaccinated with Pfizer were twice as likely to experience a “breakthrough infection”, compared to the Moderna vaccine.

Study 8​

An Oxford University study on the impact of the delta variant on COVID-19 vaccine effectiveness found that two doses of either the Pfizer or AstraZeneca vaccine still offer significant protection against infection with the now prevalent variant but that this wanes within three months.

The study indicated that the efficacy of the Pfizer vaccine 90 days after the second dose dropped to 75 percent, compared to 85 percent two weeks after the second dose. However, this decline was more apparent in those older than 35 years of age.

The study has yet to be peer-reviewed.

Study 9​

A studyTrusted Source, known as HEROES-RECOVER and published in the CDC’s Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, showed that vaccine effectiveness against preventing symptomatic and asymptomatic infection with the Delta variant fell to 66 percent from over 90 percent.

The real-world study tested over 4,000 U.S. frontline workers, more than 4 in 5 who were vaccinated with either the Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna vaccines.

I don’t think anyone is arguing that the vaccine doesn’t create lower symptoms and less hospitalization… we are looking for studies on how much the virus is being spread from …

I can't agree that they aren't working. At this point, they are keeping hospitalizations and deaths down among those vaccinated. What I can say is that what they provide has changed a time or two.

For example...

1) Take the vaccine and you won't catch COVID.

2) Take the vaccine, so you won't spread COVID.

3) Take the vaccine. You can still catch and spread COVID, but you are less likely to be hospitalized or die.

There may have been more.

It's almost as though they aren't exactly certain what this "vaccine" actually does.

And people wonder why there is mistrust.

Im still going through some of these, two I was already familiar with. A couple are interesting… they still mostly utilize observational data over clinical, which even as they admit in their own papers creates some biased results, but it is encouraging…

i wish the Biden administration had pushed forward with its widespread testing plan … while it would not have been truly controlled at least it would have gotten a larger portion of vaccinated people tested to get a better feel for actual effectiveness…

If you listen to that, it doesn't "wipe out your immune system." It destroys natural antibodies to COVID. Supposedly. I'd like to see something scientific to back that up. I mean, if I found out it were true, it wouldn't surprise me in the least, but I'd like to see something other than some chick riding in her car with a sound that could be anything created by anyone as proof.

yeah I don’t buy that at all… the vaccines create different types of antibodies than the actual virus, and they can test to see which ones you have…people often have both….

I know they don’t utilize blood from the vaccinated that haven’t had covid at the blood bank for use with people who are fighting it, but i think it’s effectiveness, not it “wiping out the immune system “ and that doesn’t mean they don’t accept it… pretty sure they still accept and use vaccinated blood as blood…

 

[oneforthebus]

If a vaccine's efficacy is 95% in the elderly, then drops to 75%....is it not logical that cases/hospitalizations/deaths will increase in that age group as the efficacy drops? Yes or no.

Yes of course. That’s a completely different statistic from “x percentage of hospitalized people are vaccinated”.

 

[oneforthebus]

To put it another way using a hyperbolic example, let’s says there are 2 people hospitalized with covid. One is vaccinated and is a 92 year old man. One is unvaccinated and is a 45 year old semi obese guy. You could say 50% of all hospitalized patients are vaccinated . Which sounds really bad, except that you’d expect that a whole lot more 92 year olds would be hospitalized than 45 year old semi obese guys. So the fact that “half the hospitalized patients are vaccinated” is meaningless. What matters is that a whole lot of vaccinated old folks are being kept out of the hospital while a too large proportion of unvaccinated fairly healthy guys are going in.

 

[Stoney]

Best wishes to your sister, Tim.

 

[Stoney]

I know you guy see this as a "told ya so" moment but it's not. People who don;t want the vax don;t think they're immune from COVID. They just fear the possible effects of a new and mostly untested vax more than they fear getting COVID. It's that simple.

How dare he take unproven ivermectin. Doesn't he know that he must take the unproven vax?

This is exactly right. They aren't having 'Covid parties', but many people believe they can readily recover from an infection should they get it. And once recovered, studies have shown they will possess a more enduring immunity than the vaccines are providing. So they are passing on the vaccines, taking reasonable precautions, and living their lives. They should be left the **** alone.

For some, I'm sure that being forced to put something into your body against your will or risk losing your ability to provide for yourself, or participate in society is pretty traumatic. Its akin to rape. Just vaccinate yourself and leave them alone. If the vaccine works as well as you believe it does, you should be fine.

 

[Tibs]

 

[Tibs]

Let the race to the bottom begin. On your mark, get set, go!

Border patrol seizes dozens of boxes of horse medications at Texas border crossing​

Border patrol seizes dozens of boxes of horse medications at Texas border crossing

EL PASO, Texas (KFOX) — Dozens of boxes of horse medications and supplements were seized by U. S. Customs and Border Protection officers working at the El Paso port of entry on Tuesday. The seizure was made shortly after 12 p. m. when a 44-year-old U. S. citizen entered the U. S. from Mexico at...

nbcmontana.com

 

[Tibs]

 

[Badcat]

I'm hoping that your sister's condition isn't serious Tim. Sorry to hear the news brother.

 

[SteelChip]

It's simple ******* logic, which escapes you. You're quite literally incapable of it.

Vaccines protect you from viruses. If a vaccine is 95% effective in January, but then becomes only 75% effective by July....those vaccinated will see a rise in cases/hospitalizations/deaths.

It's inarguable. You're seeing it now. Vaccinations began 8 months ago. I've posted study after study showing the efficacy is dropping. Therefore, the cases/hospitalizations/deaths rise in that population.

You might wanna start masking again Flogged.

 

[IndySteel]

 

[Troglodyte]

You wouldn't get a point if it was at the end of a bayonet stabbed through your eye.

It's better to have natural immunity.

Re: the vaccines, they should be better. A lot better.

So what if it is? The ends clearly don’t justify the means. Getting Covid is bad, nobody is suggesting people should contract Covid to get natural immunity. They are urging people to get the vaccine regardless if they have had Covid or not.

Pointless, Tim.

 

[Troglodyte]

Yep. Because the players union got involved.

Try seeing what happens if your employer **** cans you because you have HIV.

If unvaccinated players can result in forfeiture of a games, it’s a valid consideration.

 

[Tibs]

Never forget!

“When you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that’s a pretty good job we’ve done.” DJT 2/26/2020

U.S Stats 9/2/21:
39.5 Million Cases
642k Deaths

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

Yes of course. That’s a completely different statistic from “x percentage of hospitalized people are vaccinated”.

Then....drum roll please....some % of the rise in cases/hospitalizations/deaths is due to the vaccines not working for some % of people.

"It's just math."

Some % of those people hospitalized are because of waning vaccines. 8 months ago, vaccines began being administered full force. They show the largest of effects of waning after 6 months. Cases started to rise in areas in July.

Just a koinkydink I'm sure.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

What matters is that a whole lot of vaccinated old folks are being kept out of the hospital while a too large proportion of unvaccinated fairly healthy guys are going in.

Largest % of our population likely vaccinated - the elderly.
Cases currently growing as Delta spreads
Cases/hospitalizations/deaths growing among the vaccinated as the vaccines wane

The # of people the vaccines are keeping out of the hospital is dropping. That's NOT GOOD.

Let's put it this way. In January, hypothetically, the vaccines were keeping 9 out of 10 seniors from getting really sick with COVID. Now it's just 7 out of 10.

Ya'll still be cheering this **** like it's a miracle.

We need better.

 

[Superman]

View attachment 6285

who's not vaccinated?

jeez. its like you ignore the CDC when it doesnt meet your specific cherry picking.

Who Should not Get Vaccinated | CDC

Who should NOT Get Vaccinated?

www.cdc.gov

and then there's this:

Latest Data on COVID-19 Vaccinations by Race/Ethnicity

KFF is collecting and analyzing data on COVID-19 vaccinations by race/ethnicity to gain increased insight who is receiving the vaccine and whether some groups are facing disparities in vaccination.

www.kff.org

The CDC reports demographic characteristics, including race/ethnicity, of people receiving COVID-19 vaccinations at the national level. As of August 16, 2021, CDC reported that race/ethnicity was known for 58% of people who had received at least one dose of the vaccine. Among this group, nearly two thirds were White (58%), 10% were Black, 17% were Hispanic, 6% were Asian, 1% were American Indian or Alaska Native, and <1% were Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander, while 8% reported multiple or other race. However, CDC data also show that recent vaccinations are reaching larger shares of Hispanic, Asian, and Black populations compared to overall vaccinations. Among vaccines administered in the past 14 days, 26% have gone to Hispanic people, 15% to Black people, and 4% to Asian people (Figure 1). These recent patterns suggest a narrowing of racial gaps in vaccinations at the national level, particularly for Hispanic and Black people, who account for a larger share of recent vaccinations compared to their share of the total population (26% vs. 17% and 15% vs. 12%, respectively). While these data provide helpful insights at a national level, to date, CDC is not publicly reporting state-level data on the racial/ethnic composition of people vaccinated.

so why do you hate black people?

and you should be fully aware that the thousands of brown skinned people Xiden is fast tracking across the border are largely distrusting of government telling them what to do. Will you soon hate them with the same fervor as you do those on the right who do not bow down to the heavy handed overlord disciplines of the Left?

 

[Superman]

Never forget!

“When you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that’s a pretty good job we’ve done.” DJT 2/26/2020

U.S Stats 9/2/21:
39.5 Million Cases
642k Deaths

15 people

i guess that is 2 more than those Xiden killed in Assghanistan. We can agree on that, correct?

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

Getting Covid is bad,

I guess not for 99.97% of us. It's slightly worse than the flu. Say it with me - "It's slightly worse than the flu."

Tis not the black plague, bubonic plague, nor ebola.

nobody is suggesting people should contract Covid to get natural immunity.

Nope. You miss the point. You'd miss the point if the point was the end a pitch fork stuck in your forehead. The Government, media, organizations, YOU...continue to dismiss natural immunity and insist those with it still need vaccinated.

If you've had natural immunity, you're better off. In the most enviable position. And don't need the jab.

They are urging people to get the vaccine regardless if they have had Covid or not.

"They". You should evaluate "Their" arguments as well. They be bullshit and ignore natural immunity. You really don't need the vax if you've had Covid unless perhaps you're 75, have COPD and heart disease.

 

[Badcat]

I guess not for 99.97% of us. It's slightly worse than the flu. Say it with me - "It's slightly worse than the flu."

Tis not the black plague, bubonic plague, nor ebola.



Nope. You miss the point. You'd miss the point if the point was the end a pitch fork stuck in your forehead. The Government, media, organizations, YOU...continue to dismiss natural immunity and insist those with it still need vaccinated.

If you've had natural immunity, you're better off. In the most enviable position. And don't need the jab.



"They". You should evaluate "Their" arguments as well. They be bullshit and ignore natural immunity. You really don't need the vax if you've had Covid unless perhaps you're 75, have COPD and heart disease.

I contracted Covid in February of 2020 and since then, I've been around at least 30 people (That I know of) who have tested positive just days after being around them and guess what...I haven't had so much as a runny nose. Knock on wood. 2 of those 30 are fully vaccinated (Just found out about them yesterday) and they're in bed dealing with it for now.

Having natural anti-bodies is a blessing. Sucks for those of you who are vaccinated though. I kid I kid!!

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

If unvaccinated players can result in forfeiture of a games, it’s a valid consideration.

You bypass the root of the problem.

The problem is not whether the player costs the team a forfeiture. The problem is the rules.

The NBA for instance is saying that unvaccinated players will not be able to travel to and play in cities that have vaccine mandates for stadium entry. Nothing Nazi about that. The rule is the problem, not the player.

The COVID rules in the NFL, by and large, need changing as well. If 97% of players/staff are vaccinated, the unvaccinated aren't hurting anyone but themselves....OH ****, hold up, wait a minute...I forgot...the vaccines (so cheered and revered by you) don't prevent the spread of COVID - MY BAD.

I digress. Let's look at the COVID NFL rules:

If a vaccinated person tests positive and is asymptomatic, he or she will be isolated and contact tracing will promptly occur.

Contact tracing? OK seriously, is this March 2020? Are you kidding me? If we were tracking down Ebola...ok.

The positive individual will be permitted to return to duty after two negative tests at least 24-hours apart and will thereafter be tested every two weeks or as directed by the medical staffs.

I can support this.

Vaccinated individuals will not be subject to quarantine as a result of close contact with an infected person.

THIS IS EPICALLY, COLOSSALLY STUPID given what we know now - the vaccinated can and do spread COVID...but the NFL, in all of its wisdom, is going to give a pass and allow vaccinated people who have contacted a COVID carrier to continue to socialize. Now that's ******* brilliant. It's like the NFL may want teams to have to forfeit games. The NFL says they defer to the CDC and healthcare leaders...except...well...when the CDC contradicts what they want to do.

If an unvaccinated person tests positive, the protocols from 2020 will remain in effect. The person will be isolated for a period of 10 days and will then be permitted to return to duty if asymptomatic. Unvaccinated individuals will continue to be subject to a five-day quarantine period if they have close contact with an infected individual.

Wow this makes sense...in no way. The NFL, in one paragraph, is comparing an "unvaccinated person testing positive" to a "vaccinated person in close contact with an infected person." Why not just compare an apple to an orange or a horse to a hammer?

This shows some of the idiocy of the NFL rules. Hey Roger, what if a vaccinated person becomes infected with COVID? Nothing in the rules about that. As if the NFL is saying that's just damned "unpossible" like you and the vaccines are magic wonder bullets and no one in the entire damned NFL who is vaccinated can or will possibly contract COVID. Ask NE.

Persons who had a previous Covid infection will be considered fully vaccinated 14 days after they have had at least one dose of an approved vaccine.

More Brilliance. So I play in the NFL, I've had COVID (natural immunity is better protection than vaccinated immunity) but you're still forcing me to get the jab and ignoring that I am better protected than the rest of the naive vaccinated population in the NFL.

 

[Troglodyte]

I guess not for 99.97% of us. It's slightly worse than the flu. Say it with me - "It's slightly worse than the flu."

Tis not the black plague, bubonic plague, nor ebola.



Nope. You miss the point. You'd miss the point if the point was the end a pitch fork stuck in your forehead. The Government, media, organizations, YOU...continue to dismiss natural immunity and insist those with it still need vaccinated.

If you've had natural immunity, you're better off. In the most enviable position. And don't need the jab.



"They". You should evaluate "Their" arguments as well. They be bullshit and ignore natural immunity. You really don't need the vax if you've had Covid unless perhaps you're 75, have COPD and heart disease.

No, Tim. If nothing else, you perpetuated the spread of the virus. That’s bad. No two ways about it. And…

Coronavirus Disease 2019

CDC provides credible COVID-19 health information to the U.S.

www.cdc.gov

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

who's not vaccinated?

jeez. its like you ignore the CDC when it doesnt meet your specific cherry picking.

Who Should not Get Vaccinated | CDC

Who should NOT Get Vaccinated?

www.cdc.gov

and then there's this:

Latest Data on COVID-19 Vaccinations by Race/Ethnicity

KFF is collecting and analyzing data on COVID-19 vaccinations by race/ethnicity to gain increased insight who is receiving the vaccine and whether some groups are facing disparities in vaccination.

www.kff.org

so why do you hate black people?

and you should be fully aware that the thousands of brown skinned people Xiden is fast tracking across the border are largely distrusting of government telling them what to do. Will you soon hate them with the same fervor as you do those on the right who do not bow down to the heavy handed overlord disciplines of the Left?

And @Tibs still sharing misinformation on SN. His list showed "96% of physicians are vaccinated." Bullshit. That's based on a 301 person survey out of a population of nearly 1.1Million physicians.

And what about the CDC, FDA, NIH (correct me if I'm wrong on this, I think that is the list) et al NOT mandating the vax for their employees?

Lots of people are not vaccinated in lots of buckets - Liberals, Federal employees, some athletes....across the board. Tiblio just likes making it political, blaming Conservatives (incorrectly) and overlooking his hatred for black people.

 

[madinsomniac]

so let’s pretend we immunize 100% of the population here

it decreases short term deaths and cuts down on the spread a little

it doesn’t end it

then 5 to 10 years down the road one of the horrible potential issues with mrna shows up… cancer or long term heart disease or second generation loss of immunity or any of the dozen concerns that are out there from creditable science… including some that showed up in various rat tests early in mrna development

any one of them in sufficient percentages would be utterly devastating to the population and cause a health pandemic that dwarfs this hypercold… its a huge reason why the initial emergency approval avoided younger people without co morbidities … its why as they expand it and ram it through more and more fda officials are quitting because nobody is listening to their warnings and instead playing politics …

Even worse is this plan to use Pfizer as a booster for everyone even though studies on the safety of mix and matching vaccines are few and far between and even the inept WHO has advised against it when Canada started down that path

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

No, Tim. If nothing else, you perpetuated the spread of the virus. That’s bad. No two ways about it. And…

Coronavirus Disease 2019

CDC provides credible COVID-19 health information to the U.S.

www.cdc.gov

The amount of stupid that comes out of your mouth.

How have I perpetuated the spread of COVID any more than someone vaccinated with a vaccine that may have only 39% effectiveness against spread? My family's protected. Better protected than you

With all of the data of late on vaccinated people getting COVID and spreading it, one would think your eyes would be open. I mean, we learned from the Israel study that people with the vaccine are over 13 times more likely to contract/spread Delta than the naturally immune.

Facts **** your argument.

Regarding the CDC Kentucky study. They tested "hundreds" of patients. The Israel study, mentioned above, "was described by Bloomberg as “the largest real-world analysis comparing natural immunity – gained from an earlier infection – to the protection provided by one of the most potent vaccines currently in use.” The paper also shows that offering previously infected people one dose slightly reduced their infection risk.

The new analysis relies on the database of Maccabi Healthcare Services, which enrols about 2.5 million Israelis. The study, led by Tal Patalon and Sivan Gazit at KSM, the system’s research and innovation arm, found in two analyses that people who were vaccinated in January and February were, in June, July, and the first half of August, six to 13 times more likely to get infected than unvaccinated people who were previously infected with the coronavirus.

In one analysis, comparing more than 32,000 people in the health system, the risk of developing symptomatic COVID-19 was 27 times higher among the vaccinated, and the risk of hospitalization was eight times higher.

The largest real world study v a Kentucky study on hundreds of people. Yeah. No.

I can post dozens of studies to each you find trying to counter this. The evidence is real.

Then there's this. Ouch.

By July 23, Israel said that the Pfizer vaccine was only 39% effective in preventing spread of COVID.

****...you need a 50% efficacy minimum to get FDA approval.

It continues to appear that the vaccinated are still efficiently spreading the virus.